Rest In Peace or Rest In Power? (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

Well, sure - but this should have been placed in the PSF because, as expected, the “comments” in here are surely reflective of political ideologies (even though like many things it really shouldn’t). People can no longer think critically on their own - it’s a bit sad. 

And for the record - I didn’t accuse Joe of anything, I liked one of his posts and he took it that way - see how it works?

At this point, I definitely agree - move it to the PSF

 

[Sinn Fein]

And that my goal is civil discussion. 

I often find it valuable to ask something like this in a poll and intentionally not try to steer the results of the poll or discussion. 

If your goal is civil discussion, then I would again suggest that you not cut and run when you post something likely to be controversial and rather stay and either lead that discussion or at least participate 

 

[matuski]

I have never heard the phrase "Rest in Power" in my life.

Without reading the thread, but seeing 4 pages... I can only assume this is another contrived way to victimize/play victim or take offense where there was not such a thing before.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I hope you didn't mean "I’m not sure if you were looking for" the ugly arguing.

If after as long as I've posted in our forums, people are not sure I'm not looking for ugly arguing, that's a massive fail on my part in communicating what I'm looking for and I apologize. 

I know folks write quickly sometimes and I'm guilty too of not being clear at times. But I truly hope you don't mean that. 

Ok - sorry. I doubt you were looking for people to fight and I never said you were. I can’t know for sure and that’s all that’s implied by me saying “I’m not sure…”.  

However, it seemed a topic ripe for it and as some one that moderates the PSF it should have been obvious how this would go.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Ok - sorry. I doubt you were looking for people to fight and I never said you were. I can’t know for sure and that’s all that’s implied by me saying “I’m not sure…”.  

However, it seemed a topic ripe for it and as some one that moderates the PSF it should have been obvious how this would go.

Thanks. I definitely was not looking for ugly arguing. Thank you for clarifying. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Thanks. I definitely was not looking for ugly arguing. Thank you for clarifying. 

For the record, outside of 1 person who obviously stormed in here with an agenda to prove how cool he was and a few snide comments here and there this topic really hasn’t gotten too ugly really, relatively speaking. It’s kind of fascinating what can rile people up. Maybe I just don’t have the passion of some people but taking “sides” on some of these issues just seems pointless.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I’m intrigued you thought that - granted, maybe I’m naive and don’t understand the Rest in Power and potential controversy.  Is it a controversial term generally speaking?  Again, before this thread I’d never heard of it so the idea this would even generate an argument has me

In my opinion, it's sort of like asking, "What do you think of the Black Lives Matter movement?" 

I'm not calling anyone here a racist or directing this at anyone specifically. But the phrase is clearly associated with black people, and unfortunately in our country, any discussion of race - past, present and future - doesn't usually go very well.

While I think the devolvement of the discussion in this thread was sad, I think it was inevitable from the moment the thread was started.

 

[Doug B]

I’m intrigued you thought that - granted, maybe I’m naive and don’t understand the Rest in Power and potential controversy.  Is it a controversial term generally speaking?

I see two main paths to controversy for "Rest in Power":

1) The concept that people who aren't familiar with the phrases "are not paying attention" and are thus deficient, somehow, in holding up their end of the American social contract as it exists in 2021. If I may bang our respective drums ... I think that Sinn Fein, McBokonon, and I covered this ground with mutual respect intact.

2) The concept that adopting "Rest in Power" means rejecting the traditional. It can be offensive to hear "the trappings of your culture aren't sufficient for us", even if not said in those words. It's more complicated than I'm explaining it, but that's the gist of it.

...

Regarding (1) above, I noticed that some folks who were engaged in this topic on the first page made themselves scarce after getting some pushback. For me, it looked a lot like "I have nothing nice to say, so I won't say it" but, of course, I can't read minds and don't know that for sure. All the same, sometimes silence can carry a message, unintentional or not.

 

[Sinn Fein]

1) The concept that people who aren't familiar with the phrases "are not paying attention" and are thus deficient, somehow, in holding up their end of the American social contract as it exists in 2021. If I may band our respective drums ... I think that Sinn Fein, McBokanon, and I covered this ground with mutual respect intact.

2) The concept that adopting "Rest in Power" means rejecting the traditional. It can be offensive to hear "the trappings of your culture aren't sufficient for us", even if not said in those words. It's more complicated than I'm explaining it, but that's the gist of it.

Good points - if I can expand...

1.  Just to be clear, my "gripe" was with people saying they never heard of it - I just think its been around, and in the open, enough that reasonably informed people should have at least heard the phrase.  And, I think most people have actually heard/seen the phrase - but as you alluded in response to having seen it here at FBGs - that its a phrase that was seen, but simply did not register.  I accept that my idea of "reasonably informed" is not the same as everyone else, and that people seeing the phrase, but not registering it - is probably more wide-spread than I considered.

In that vein - I have no gripe with people who are not comfortable using that phrase, or would prefer just about anything else.  As I said, I think that is really just down to personal preference, and there is no wrong answer there.

2.  I think the second option above is where I took umbrage.  When I heard/saw people mocking the phrase - I understood where they might be coming from, but mocking a phrase, that is clearly used in reverence, is in poor taste - in my view.  I completely understand someone who says "I don't like that phrase, or I don't understand that phrase, or I would never use that phrase" - and I think its origins are what you alluded to above - "the phrase is different than what I was brought up to say."  But, being different should not be a reason to be mocked.  I understand that traditions die hard, but so many things we say/do today, would have been taboo 200 years ago.  Things change.

As this discussion has gone on - I have had more time to reflect on the phrase itself: "Rest in Power"

Its not something I really gave much thought to, nor would it be first in mind when paying respects to someone who has passed.  But, I think it really does resonate as a very powerful statement. For me, it says: As your mortal body is laid to rest, the power of your legacy lives on.  You will continue to impact this world, though your life has ended.  

I don't know that there are many tributes that are more impactful.

 

[Joe Bryant]

In my opinion, it's sort of like asking, "What do you think of the Black Lives Matter movement?" 

I'm not calling anyone here a racist or directing this at anyone specifically. But the phrase is clearly associated with black people, and unfortunately in our country, any discussion of race - past, present and future - doesn't usually go very well.

While I think the devolvement of the discussion in this thread was sad, I think it was inevitable from the moment the thread was started.

Thanks. I don't agree it's like asking what you think of Black Lives Matter as it's become something you see pretty regularly without racial connections. Like with John Madden yesterday. https://twitter.com/search?q=madden rest in power&src=typed_query

I am seeing it more frequently and wondered how people felt about it. As I said, that's why I asked in a poll. I think that's a useful way to get a pulse for where the forum is on it. I also think I get a more accurate gauge on the pulse if I stay neutral in how I ask the question and keep my posts to mostly clarifying comments and not trying to influence the direction. 

I'd also hope most people know me enough to know I was asking in good faith and meant what I said when I asked. I think most get that. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Good points - if I can expand...

1.  Just to be clear, my "gripe" was with people saying they never heard of it - I just think its been around, and in the open, enough that reasonably informed people should have at least heard the phrase.  And, I think most people have actually heard/seen the phrase - but as you alluded in response to having seen it here at FBGs - that its a phrase that was seen, but simply did not register.  I accept that my idea of "reasonably informed" is not the same as everyone else, and that people seeing the phrase, but not registering it - is probably more wide-spread than I considered.

In that vein - I have no gripe with people who are not comfortable using that phrase, or would prefer just about anything else.  As I said, I think that is really just down to personal preference, and there is no wrong answer there.

2.  I think the second option above is where I took umbrage.  When I heard/saw people mocking the phrase - I understood where they might be coming from, but mocking a phrase, that is clearly used in reverence, is in poor taste - in my view.  I completely understand someone who says "I don't like that phrase, or I don't understand that phrase, or I would never use that phrase" - and I think its origins are what you alluded to above - "the phrase is different than what I was brought up to say."  But, being different should not be a reason to be mocked.  I understand that traditions die hard, but so many things we say/do today, would have been taboo 200 years ago.  Things change.

As this discussion has gone on - I have had more time to reflect on the phrase itself: "Rest in Power"

Its not something I really gave much thought to, nor would it be first in mind when paying respects to someone who has passed.  But, I think it really does resonate as a very powerful statement. For me, it says: As your mortal body is laid to rest, the power of your legacy lives on.  You will continue to impact this world, though your life has ended.  

I don't know that there are many tributes that are more impactful.

No clue why you would have a gripe with people who said they had never heard of it.  It’s possible I heard it and either it didn’t register or I didn’t pay attention but either way, who cares?  I’m also very uneducated on a lot of topics - several religions, parts of the world and many other things.  Someone not being exposed to that phrase or knowing about it isn’t something gripe-worthy.  YMMV.

 

[AAABatteries]

Another example I would liken this to (now that I know a little about it) is Juneteenth.  I had never heard that phrase until someone started a thread here about it.  

 

[Doug B]

Another example I would liken this to (now that I know a little about it) is Juneteenth.  I had never heard that phrase until someone started a thread here about it.  

Only heard of it through a 2017 episode of the sit-com Blackish (which in retrospect was pretty durned educational). Otherwise, it would have come out of nowhere for me, too.

 

[Doug B]

Now that I'm hip to "Rest in Power", I'm starting to actively look for it.

Not surprising that it was frequently invoked upon Ruth Bader Ginsburg's passing (yes, I missed it for her, too). Daily Kos (not mainstream IMHO, but popular) yesterday used it in an opinion piece commemorating Harry Reid.

I looked for "Rest in Power" references in connection to Antonin Scalia's February 2016 death but came up empty ... probably a bit too far back in time. However: there are legion social-media references and YouTube videos invoking "Rest in Power" for Rush Limbaugh's passing -- and yes, there is also pushback for that usage.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I think there’s a big difference between wanting people to argue and wanting people to discuss things.  It just seems by default that some people are inclined to argue.  I think Joe wants (civil) discussion.  Just my 2 cents.

and I want...

 

[Captain Cranks]

Thanks. I don't agree it's like asking what you think of Black Lives Matter as it's become something you see pretty regularly without racial connections. Like with John Madden yesterday. https://twitter.com/search?q=madden rest in power&src=typed_query

I am seeing it more frequently and wondered how people felt about it. As I said, that's why I asked in a poll. I think that's a useful way to get a pulse for where the forum is on it. I also think I get a more accurate gauge on the pulse if I stay neutral in how I ask the question and keep my posts to mostly clarifying comments and not trying to influence the direction. 

I'd also hope most people know me enough to know I was asking in good faith and meant what I said when I asked. I think most get that. 

So what happens now that you've checked the pulse? Do you feel any information you've gleaned from this thread was worth the result?     

 

[Captain Cranks]

1.  Just to be clear, my "gripe" was with people saying they never heard of it - I just think its been around, and in the open, enough that reasonably informed people should have at least heard the phrase.  And, I think most people have actually heard/seen the phrase - but as you alluded in response to having seen it here at FBGs - that its a phrase that was seen, but simply did not register.  I accept that my idea of "reasonably informed" is not the same as everyone else, and that people seeing the phrase, but not registering it - is probably more wide-spread than I considered.

Just want to emphasize that I think this wreaks of superiority. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Just want to emphasize that I think this wreaks of superiority. 

Its definitely a failing of mine.

 

[bigbottom]

Its not something I really gave much thought to, nor would it be first in mind when paying respects to someone who has passed.  But, I think it really does resonate as a very powerful statement. For me, it says: As your mortal body is laid to rest, the power of your legacy lives on.  You will continue to impact this world, though your life has ended.  

I like how you've summarized the sentiment here.

 

[Doug B]

... it's become something you see pretty regularly without racial connections. Like with John Madden yesterday. https://twitter.com/search?q=madden rest in power&src=typed_query

Wow -- I hadn't seen it in connection with John Madden yet. Lots of examples.

However: I think I'm more dug in than before that "Rest in Power" is very closely associated with social media and especially Twitter. Looks like it's just barely starting to leak out into traditional media ... but even there, at least right now, it's almost exclusively when old-line media runs a "look at what they're tweeting" article.

I'm sure that will change before long -- probably has been in some traditional print columnists' pieces already, just that I missed them.

 

[AAABatteries]

I like how you've summarized the sentiment here.

Agree with this too.  I like it - doubt anyone will use it for me

 

[Doug B]

A good amount of "Rest in Power" on social media for Rush drummer Neil Peart's January 2020 passing -- like Madden, not an overtly political figure. 

Eddie Van Halen, also.

 

 

[Joe Bryant]

A good amount of "Rest in Power" on social media for Rush drummer Neil Peart's January 2020 passing -- like Madden, not an overtly political figure. 

Eddie Van Halen, also.

 

Yes. You see it quite a bit where it does not have a racial connection that I'm aware of. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

So what happens now that you've checked the pulse? Do you feel any information you've gleaned from this thread was worth the result?     

I don't know about "worth the result", but I did learn some things.

• Fewer people were aware of this phrase than I thought.
  
• I've failed terribly with some people to give them an idea of what I'm looking for with our forums and the type of discussion I'd hope we have here.
  
• The phrase is more divisive than I thought.
  

I don't know how valuable that information is in the bigger scheme of things. But I think it's most always good to have more information on things. 

 

[Kal El]

I didn’t know this was a debate, but I honestly don’t care what someone uses. For a variety of reasons, including the fact that I was an Undertaker fan growing up, I always think of it as Rest in Peace, but I’m not going to correct someone.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Yes. You see it quite a bit where it does not have a racial connection that I'm aware of. 

Sure, it's more widespread now, but it absolutely originated among groups facing racism and other forms of discrimination.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sure, it's more widespread now, but it absolutely originated among groups facing racism and other forms of discrimination.

Sure. I don't think anyone is doubting where it originated.