RGIII: Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, . . . . (1 Viewer)

[Matt Waldman]

My link

 

[Andrew74]

Nice, looking forward to this.

 

[BigJilm]

Sorry, that was pretty weak. You over-analyzed one play while speaking in absolutes. "That means so-and-so is going to blitz." No, it doesn't. Give me any interception in Peyton Manning's career and let me watch it a few times on tape. Afterwards, I could tell you matter of fact who is going to blitz before the snap and where he should have thrown the ball instead.

 

[Matt Waldman]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot.

'

This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Hey Matt,

It seems that many young QBs take time before they get up to speed on their pre-snap reads. Steve Young made strieds after being traded to San Francisco. Drew Brees took a few years before he broke thru on his reads, whereas other young rookie QBs seemed to make a much smoother transition, Peyton Manning and I'll throw out Bernie Kosar.

From what I've seen of Robert Griffin he sticks in the pocket for a long time, he doesn't seem to be concerned about pressure possibly it may be because he's very confident in his escapability and manuverability if he has to take off which gives him confidence in his ability to handle pressure.

Speaking of Bernie Kosar, he was at the combine to evaluate RG III and other QB prospects. He gave a very informative interview.

Here's the link to short video worth the listen.

BK on rookie QB evaluations

NFL Combine Interview: Bernie Kosar

Posted on Friday, February 24, 2012 8:25AM

The Plain Dealer's Dennis Manoloff speaks with former Cleveland Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar the the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis on Thursday.

Kosar was asked the top three things he looks for in a rookie QB prospect.1. "Does the guy come off his reads?"

Meaning when the primary and secondary receivers are covered how does the guy react? Does he contiue to his third option?

2. "How does the guy react to pressure?"

When the QB is making his reads and feels pressure are his eyes UP or DOWN? Meaning does he continue even with pressure closing in and keep his eyes UP looking downfield or does he lower his eyes DOWN concentrating on the pressure and looking for a seam to run?

3. "How does he handle himself?"

Does he come in with a posse and bling? Is he all about being paid? Basically is he a true leader or out for himself?

I think RG III can learn how to read defenses but that ability varies from QB prospect. It could cmoe quickly or over the course of a few years.

On top of concerns on his pre-snap reads had you nocited how he comes off his reads? Also it seems it takes a good solid year for ANY QB to get up to speed on the West Coast. I'm sure their will be other issues with RG III, my main concern is durability and then how long before he can come up to speed with everything, pre-snap reads, coming off reads, and getting up to speed on the WCO.

Could you go a bit deeper into Griffin and give us your take on what BK discussed and your perceptions on how long it takes a QB to get up to speed on the WCO?

Thanks.

 

[jurb26]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

 

[Matt Waldman]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

I agree. I misspoke about "absolutes" and really I'm just talking about tells. As far as your analysis, I can see how that could be the case. Thanks for adding your view. Mind if I use it?

 

[Matt Waldman]

Hey Matt,

It seems that many young QBs take time before they get up to speed on their pre-snap reads. Steve Young made strieds after being traded to San Francisco. Drew Brees took a few years before he broke thru on his reads, whereas other young rookie QBs seemed to make a much smoother transition, Peyton Manning and I'll throw out Bernie Kosar.

From what I've seen of Robert Griffin he sticks in the pocket for a long time, he doesn't seem to be concerned about pressure possibly it may be because he's very confident in his escapability and manuverability if he has to take off which gives him confidence in his ability to handle pressure.

Speaking of Bernie Kosar, he was at the combine to evaluate RG III and other QB prospects. He gave a very informative interview.

Here's the link to short video worth the listen.

BK on rookie QB evaluations

NFL Combine Interview: Bernie Kosar

Posted on Friday, February 24, 2012 8:25AM

The Plain Dealer's Dennis Manoloff speaks with former Cleveland Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar the the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis on Thursday.

Kosar was asked the top three things he looks for in a rookie QB prospect.1. "Does the guy come off his reads?"

Meaning when the primary and secondary receivers are covered how does the guy react? Does he contiue to his third option?

2. "How does the guy react to pressure?"

When the QB is making his reads and feels pressure are his eyes UP or DOWN? Meaning does he continue even with pressure closing in and keep his eyes UP looking downfield or does he lower his eyes DOWN concentrating on the pressure and looking for a seam to run?

3. "How does he handle himself?"

Does he come in with a posse and bling? Is he all about being paid? Basically is he a true leader or out for himself?

I think RG III can learn how to read defenses but that ability varies from QB prospect. It could cmoe quickly or over the course of a few years.

On top of concerns on his pre-snap reads had you nocited how he comes off his reads? Also it seems it takes a good solid year for ANY QB to get up to speed on the West Coast. I'm sure their will be other issues with RG III, my main concern is durability and then how long before he can come up to speed with everything, pre-snap reads, coming off reads, and getting up to speed on the WCO.

Could you go a bit deeper into Griffin and give us your take on what BK discussed and your perceptions on how long it takes a QB to get up to speed on the WCO?

Thanks.

Like you said, it all depends on the player. I still think it takes two years for a QB to see enough at the NFL level to really come into his own. I think part of it includes seeing how NFL defenses perceive him after the first year and how they play him. I have few doubts that RGIII will work at the mental side of the game. Griffin keeps his eyes down field pretty well but it's a mixed bag when it comes to his reads. Many of his plays are quick-hitting throws that when he has to drop and survey the field I've seen mostly what appears to be two reads and time to leave he pocket. However, he does some nice things to manipulate a defense with both his eyes and his arm (pump fakes) and I think he can become the player folks hoped Vick would someday develop into.

 

[jurb26]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

I agree. I misspoke about "absolutes" and really I'm just talking about tells. As far as your analysis, I can see how that could be the case. Thanks for adding your view. Mind if I use it?

Mot at all.

 

[Matt Waldman]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

I agree. I misspoke about "absolutes" and really I'm just talking about tells. As far as your analysis, I can see how that could be the case. Thanks for adding your view. Mind if I use it?

Mot at all.

Thanks

 

[Bronx Bomber]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

I agree. I misspoke about "absolutes" and really I'm just talking about tells. As far as your analysis, I can see how that could be the case. Thanks for adding your view. Mind if I use it?

Mot at all.

Thanks

Nice job Jurb getting your post on the RSP blog

 

[jurb26]

It's a pretty absolute situation, BJ. You read coverage by reading the safeties. Griffin should have known before the snap that he had single coverage with each outside receiver and a reasonably good idea that the safety on the trips side had the middle receiver and the MLB had the slot. 'This is what good quarterbacks learn to do, recognize it before the snap. It's what Griffin will have to learn. It's a simple analysis of one play, actually. Sorry you feel differently, but not going to please everyone.

There are no absolutes when it comes to pre-snap reads. There are tells and tendencies. CBs and Ss disguise coverages all the time. There are formations and motions that will help tip the hand of the defense, trips happens to be one of them. None are absolute though.I haven't watched a great deal of OSU football recently but I'd be inclined to believe that them staying in this man coverage in the face of the trips formation was rare. I say that because it simply is for almost any college team I've ever seen. There may have been a pre-snap indication that the blitz was coming and that OSU would roll the dice with man coverage but we can't put this play into context with out knowing the full season and schematic tendencies of OSU heading into this game. The reason I say that staying in man coverage vs. this formation is rare is because the trips formation Baylor is in is fantastic at creating natural picks and lining up skill players (WRs) vs. mismatched defenders ( Ss and LBs). It's an offenses way of trying to dictate coverage and staying in man vs. that formation is just flat out ballsy. I'm not convinced this was a pre-snap mistake on RG3's part at all. I think he simply got confused because he was coached all week in his film sessions that the formation Baylor came out in would result in a different OSU coverage scheme and it didn't. I think he read the LB on the play and expected that the S would run under into the flat in a cover 3 zone. He didn't see the S running to that spot and thought he had the deep comeback patter as easy pickings, only to find that the CB was sitting on it in man. He didn't see that he had the middle WR open because he was too caught up waiting to see who was taking the flat. He still made a mistake, I just don't think it was the mistake you are saying. I think he didn't trust the pre-snap reads and assumed that his formation would force the OSU coverage.This is one of my real problems with the spread offense and evaluating QBs to the NFL from it. Far too often does the QB depend on forced coverages because their formations create easier tendencies.

I agree. I misspoke about "absolutes" and really I'm just talking about tells. As far as your analysis, I can see how that could be the case. Thanks for adding your view. Mind if I use it?

Mot at all.

Thanks

Nice job Jurb getting your post on the RSP blog

Wow, I'm almost famous now! Thanks for the props, Matt.

 

[Matt Waldman]

My pleasure. Your point of view was great. Glad you let me share it.