Richardson Trade Poll: Which team got the better end of the deal? (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Ok, you obviously haven't watched the games.

As for Pro Bowl RB's, the last non-1st round RB to make the Pro Bowl was McCoy and that was 5 years ago.

And Jones-Drew, Foster, Rice, Forte, Gore

He was saying that you can get Pro Bowl RB's every year in the draft and I was pointing out that a Pro Bowl RB hasn't been drafted outside of the 1st since 2009.

 

[Pwingles]

it'll be a few years until we can definitely tell one way or another..

if t-rich helps lead the colts to a super bowl this year.. then maybe we say faster that the colts won the deal.

but if the colts tank and its a pick in the teens and the browns turn it into a clowney and maroita maybe it leads to future success for the browns.

Its really going to depend on what the Browns do with that extra first round pick.

the Browns now have the 2 1st rounders, 1 2nd rounder and 3 3rds... thats enough picks in there that they could see a quick turn around from this trade starting next year.

Hard to pass up players like that, but you gotta think that theyre gonna try and target a QB. Who are gonna be free agents this off season?

 

[Khy]

Trent has run against 8+ in the box for his whole NFL career. Even with a worse line, having a legit passing attack will up his numbers considerably.

People who think the Browns won this trade haven't been watching every single Richardson snap like us Browns fans. They also don't know Michael Lombardi's drafting history.

This is a slam dunk for the Colts. With an elite front office, this might have been a wash. But guys, it's the BROWNS, we haven't had a good front office for about 50 years.

While I think you CAN try and make this argument... the problem is THIS is Trent Richardson. He was considered the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson. Nobody is saying that Peterson needs a good passing game to be effective. He faces 8+ in the box on every play and still almost broke the all time rushing record last season. Fact is a lot of RBs put up better numbers than Trent has and the Browns felt it was a good time to get out now. We've seen pretty solid proof in the last several years that a first round pick doesn't need to be spent on a RB in order to draft an elite RB talent. At the very lest no RB should be going in the Top 15 picks these days.

As long as the Browns front office can put together a good draft this coming offseason I actually love this move for them.

 

[Pipes]

Trent has run against 8+ in the box for his whole NFL career. Even with a worse line, having a legit passing attack will up his numbers considerably.

People who think the Browns won this trade haven't been watching every single Richardson snap like us Browns fans. They also don't know Michael Lombardi's drafting history.

This is a slam dunk for the Colts. With an elite front office, this might have been a wash. But guys, it's the BROWNS, we haven't had a good front office for about 50 years.

While I think you CAN try and make this argument... the problem is THIS is Trent Richardson. He was considered the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson. Nobody is saying that Peterson needs a good passing game to be effective. He faces 8+ in the box on every play and still almost broke the all time rushing record last season. Fact is a lot of RBs put up better numbers than Trent has and the Browns felt it was a good time to get out now. We've seen pretty solid proof in the last several years that a first round pick doesn't need to be spent on a RB in order to draft an elite RB talent. At the very lest no RB should be going in the Top 15 picks these days.

As long as the Browns front office can put together a good draft this coming offseason I actually love this move for them.

 

[Jewell]

While I think you CAN try and make this argument... the problem is THIS is Trent Richardson. He was considered the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson. Nobody is saying that Peterson needs a good passing game to be effective. He faces 8+ in the box on every play and still almost broke the all time rushing record last season.

Ditto for MJD a couple seasons ago in Jacksonville. The truly great running backs (those worth a first round draft pick) still manage to get it done even with crappy QB play and eight in the box.

 

[FDC]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

who was coming off 2 bad seasons in buffalo and had numerous off the field issues at the time. and where was he drafted originally? yep in the top 10. so talent is talent. a late 1st rounder for a solid rb to help build around. sold.

talent is talent and Colts have a lot of holes elsewhere that you don't usually find among championship caliber teams

again, when has something like this worked in recent years?

 

[pollardsvision]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

I can't believe anyone is going to show up for the games after this. It's a good thing they did this with a road game coming up because I wouldn't be surprised if the whole stadium was empty if they had a home game Sunday.

Yep and it's going to be like a knife in the back each week when Trent dominates, as they realize how far their offense is from the Colts and as they realize what they gave away.

I think this underestimates the intelligence of the fanbase.

Though, I agree, a lot of Browns fans, like other fans would be, are going to be disappointed to lose a guy most of them have heard of or who's jersey they own, for "just a defensive lineman" or whatever (if they don't get a QB). There are going to be a lot of pink Richardson jersey owners disappointed.

But it would never be smart for a front office to make decisions based on what the more casual fan may think.

Building around a 1st round RB, or an expensive RB, just doesn't make much sense.

 

[shader]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

I can't believe anyone is going to show up for the games after this. It's a good thing they did this with a road game coming up because I wouldn't be surprised if the whole stadium was empty if they had a home game Sunday.

Yep and it's going to be like a knife in the back each week when Trent dominates, as they realize how far their offense is from the Colts and as they realize what they gave away.

I think this underestimates the intelligence of the fanbase.

Though, I agree, a lot of Browns fans, like other fans would be, are going to be disappointed to lose a guy most of them have heard of or who's jersey they own, for "just a defensive lineman" or whatever (if they don't get a QB). There are going to be a lot of pink Richardson jersey owners disappointed.

But it would never be smart for a front office to make decisions based on what the more casual fan may think.

Building around a 1st round RB just doesn't make much sense.

The fanbase is ticked off. I just heard the regular beat writer, Grossi on Sirius NFL Radio. He sounds like almost every Cleveland fan I know. When are they going to stop building for next year? What if the 1st round pick isn't as good as Trent? How many picks from 15-25 flame out every year?

When is "stockpiling draft picks" going to stop being seen as some sort of good thing? Trading Trent for a first-rounder is only good if you then convert that first rounder into a player that is better than the one you traded away.

And if Trent comes out and makes the pro bowl, and becomes a potent member of an explosive Indy offense, it's going to be like a knife in the back of Cleveland fans, regardless of their intelligence. It will also put the Browns under IMMENSE pressure to do something valuable with that pick.

 

[pollardsvision]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Ok, you obviously haven't watched the games.

As for Pro Bowl RB's, the last non-1st round RB to make the Pro Bowl was McCoy and that was 5 years ago.

And Jones-Drew, Foster, Rice, Forte, Gore

Yeah, if finding a Pro Bowl RB is the goal, it certainly doesn't take a 1st round pick.

I would even go a step further and say I'm not even sure having a Pro Bowl caliber RB is a terribly important thing.

Last year, we had two bell cow PB types in the Super Bowl, among those you mention (having elite defenses helped the cause there).

Before that the lead ball carriers of the SB participants look like this....

2011: Bradshaw (7th round pick and 25 YO version of the guy the Colts don't want to roll with) vs. total cheap committee

2010: PuPu Platter vs. Mendenhall (late 1st rounder, 3.9 YPC plodder, gone soon after)

2009: RBBC with 1st rounder getting 117 total touches vs. 2 late 1st rounders on their way out of the league (boy those '06 and '09 picks sure would've been nice to put other pieces around Manning then Luck)

2008: Undrafted Pro Bowler holding off the 1st round bust vs. RBBC with nobody reaching 150 carries and the closest a 30 YO Edge ever came to a ring

2007: 4th RD pick led RBBC vs. RBBC led by a 1st rounder on his way out of the league

I could go on, but the point is that a true stud RB is nice, but it doesn't appear to be an integral part of building a Championship team. And if it shows up on a Championship caliber team, it probably didn't require a 1st round pick or a big contract.

 

[MattFancy]

Short term - Colts

Long term- Browns

 

[meyerj31]

I think it's a lose/lose for both teams long-term.

If I were the Colts GM, I would quit after being overriden on such a risky and unnecessary maneuver.

When was the last time, in the salary cap era, that a huge trade like this panned out well? It doesn't, because draft picks are gold (and should be treated as such). The Colts traded away a 1st, 4th, and 7th ... ammunition they could have used to get virtually any player outside of the top 15 in next year's draft, whom would have had 4 years of a controlled contract.

You don't build championship teams with moves like this ... look at the Super Bowl champions of the past decade. How many of them had a big free agent signing that ended up as a core member of the winning the big game? I can't find a single one. The Packers, Patriots, Giants, Ravens, and Steelers are all built through draft and develop. None of those teams ever give much in draft picks for players. And when they do? How has Amendola turned out?

For the Browns... I've never seen a clearer case of throwing in the towel on a season. This is awful for their fan base and could have lasting repercussions. I would be demanding a refund of my season tickets if I was a Cleveland fan. Winning does solve everything, so if they get the right QB then it will turn it around quickly.

Another note that I can't seem to get past, is that Rod Chuzziniznznik (whatever his name is) has made comments about Richardson not fitting his scheme. For f*cking real? That's just bad coaching. Great coaches, the Belichecks, Coughlins, McCarthys, Capers (and so on) take the talent available and design the best scheme with what they have. They don't pigeon-hole whatever players they come across into the same X's and O's that were successful for them in the past. That's just lazy, and very bad coaching. Hopefully Richardson is a better fit with what Indy is doing, or they use him more wisely.

agree the comment that rich wasn't scheme fit inexplicable...possible organizational exceptions, agree in general that is how they operate... sometimes big trades or free agent moves can be a positive... IND no stranger to trades in last year (vontae davis cost second), and hard to argue with their 2012 success...

GB - more than decade ago (two), reggie white ushered in blockbuster free agent signings, instrumental in packs first super bowl since 60s... not exception, more confirmation of your observations of principles of successful NFL organizations - was it ron wolf that was a master at parlaying late QB picks like brooks and hasselbeck into higher draft picks (PHI and NE have proven adept at this, too)...

NE - corey dillon cost second, worked out pretty well... but confirming your points, pats masters of trading down, getting salary cap benefit of low firsts and seconds, also stockpiling future picks... when they used high picks like on seymour and mayo, generally nailed them...

NYG - giants made bold move and paid dearly for eli in draft picks, reaped two super bowls... like a lot of these teams, have otherwise done a great job of letting the draft come to them...

BAL - dumervil not insignificant free agent signing as recently as this year... but the "norm"... scooping up future hall of farmers like lewis and reed in latter first round...

PIT - got nothing here, you are right, stick to organizational blue print of letting value fall to them in draft, don't recall any noteworthy trades or free agent moves off top of my head...

two other teams that are arguably two best in power rankings have made big moves recently...

DEN - peyton manning was obviously by far the biggest, best and most impactful free agent of 2012, seemed risky at time with potential career-ending neck injury, in retrospect stroke of genius...

SEA - traded first for harvin, maybe biggest move this year? he had some medical risk, and had clashed with Vikings... one of biggest difference makers in league when healthy... they looked dominant against SF at home (if not CAR on road), imagine the offense once they on board harvin... scary thought to NFC West and rest of NFC/league...

There is only one person on that list that was a true free agent trade for draft picks, who ended up winning a Super Bowl with their new team (Corey Dillon).

Reggie White was not a trade - he was a free agent signing. He's one of the few in the history of big free agent signings that lead to a Super Bowl. I find it kind of laughable that you included Manning and Harvin, because neither one of them have won a playoff game for their new team. Plus, Manning was a free agent signing, not a trade.

So one person in the last 10-15 years that was traded for a high draft pick and ended up winning a Super Bowl. My point stands... that's not the way to build a championship team.

 

[pollardsvision]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

I can't believe anyone is going to show up for the games after this. It's a good thing they did this with a road game coming up because I wouldn't be surprised if the whole stadium was empty if they had a home game Sunday.

Yep and it's going to be like a knife in the back each week when Trent dominates, as they realize how far their offense is from the Colts and as they realize what they gave away.

I think this underestimates the intelligence of the fanbase.

Though, I agree, a lot of Browns fans, like other fans would be, are going to be disappointed to lose a guy most of them have heard of or who's jersey they own, for "just a defensive lineman" or whatever (if they don't get a QB). There are going to be a lot of pink Richardson jersey owners disappointed.

But it would never be smart for a front office to make decisions based on what the more casual fan may think.

Building around a 1st round RB just doesn't make much sense.

The fanbase is ticked off. I just heard the regular beat writer, Grossi on Sirius NFL Radio. He sounds like almost every Cleveland fan I know. When are they going to stop building for next year? What if the 1st round pick isn't as good as Trent? How many picks from 15-25 flame out every year?

When is "stockpiling draft picks" going to stop being seen as some sort of good thing? Trading Trent for a first-rounder is only good if you then convert that first rounder into a player that is better than the one you traded away.

And if Trent comes out and makes the pro bowl, and becomes a potent member of an explosive Indy offense, it's going to be like a knife in the back of Cleveland fans, regardless of their intelligence. It will also put the Browns under IMMENSE pressure to do something valuable with that pick.

I'm sure a lot of fans are ticked off, but imo, this is the sort of move that's smart to make even if it ticks off a lot of fans.

Richardson's a guy they've all heard of. Like a lot of bad teams with really good RBs (there are a bunch of them, which is telling, imo), he's become the fan-friendly face of a bad franchise. "A reason for fans to get excited" because they can't get fans excited in the more optimal way (winning).

But that's a bad way to build a team.

Sure, this puts more pressure on the Browns to get that pick right, but there's always pressure to get draft picks right. Even the best organizations whiff on first rounders, which is another reason why stockpiling as many as possible is so smart.

As I mentioned before, I think it's likely Richardson has success with Colts and is a part of them winning a lot of football games. That's sure to upset the fanbase further, but it would be faulty reasoning to call it a bad move based on that.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I seriously don't understand how people are calling Richardson an NFL difference maker -- good fantasy numbers last year, sure. But after 17 games it's abundantly clear that he's NOT a guy that can single-handedly carry an offense. I'm not really sure if any RB (maybe Peterson, but again, how much success has Minnesota had with him there except with Favre?) can in today's NFL. The RB should be the capstone on the pyramid, which needs to be built on a base of QB and o-line.

Clearly Holmgren's last draft was a desperate attempt to try to add players that could make an immediate impact and save his job (RB transition to the NFL is usually easy, old rookie QB). The mistake was paying a ton to move up to get a RB (any RB). This trade was a way to undo some of that buffoonery.

For Indy, a solid RB like Richardson makes more sense -- but anyone calling the Colts a Super Bowl contender this year is flat out insane. The offensive line and the defense in general are no where remotely near that level. The trade makes them better, but there's still work to do.

 

[Khy]

I seriously don't understand how people are calling Richardson an NFL difference maker -- good fantasy numbers last year, sure. But after 17 games it's abundantly clear that he's NOT a guy that can single-handedly carry an offense. I'm not really sure if any RB (maybe Peterson, but again, how much success has Minnesota had with him there except with Favre?) can in today's NFL. The RB should be the capstone on the pyramid, which needs to be built on a base of QB and o-line.

Clearly Holmgren's last draft was a desperate attempt to try to add players that could make an immediate impact and save his job (RB transition to the NFL is usually easy, old rookie QB). The mistake was paying a ton to move up to get a RB (any RB). This trade was a way to undo some of that buffoonery.

For Indy, a solid RB like Richardson makes more sense -- but anyone calling the Colts a Super Bowl contender this year is flat out insane. The offensive line and the defense in general are no where remotely near that level. The trade makes them better, but there's still work to do.

There is no way this teams a Super Bowl contender this season. Honestly, they had more luck than any team in recent memory in terms of making the playoffs last season. I think this puts them back in playoff contention as I wasn't so certain they were a playoff team coming into this year.

 

[Da Guru]

Average RBs like Richardson are low on the NFL food chain. The Browns had more than enough time to evaluate Richardson..if he was going to be the next ADP there is no way they would have traded him. That being said he is not going to be the next ADP...although he should have some success with the Colts the Browns made the right move in getting a #1 for him.

 

[DocHolliday]

This was a good move for the Colts since RB is a missing part of the puzzle on an otherwise good O. Maybe Richardson carries them into the playoffs.

Cleveland made the right move though. They were given a first round pick for a good but not great RB. Another one of those will be found again in the next draft or 2.

Richardson is a good RB but was not great in Cleveland. Cleveland needs to find a real QB to build around.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Hey Bama homers, what if the Browns take AJ Mccarron with this pick? You won't admit it, but you'll be torn.

 

[False Start]

The vote count is exactly where it should be. I believe in no way the Browns won this deal. I rather have the 1st and 3rd picks from last year then the 1st and 22nd next year. Luck will be around awhile and Richardson now has a pretty good organization to work for, that will make a world of difference. While the Browns have another wasted season and no reason to really hope for anything more just because of more picks, the Browns have not proven they know what to do with picks. Stop trying to tell me they got 10 picks, the way they draft, most will bust anyways. I am not a fan of Lombardi at all, and we already know Banner can't run a company right.

 

[Cyclones]

The vote count is exactly where it should be. I believe in no way the Browns won this deal. I rather have the 1st and 3rd picks from last year then the 1st and 22nd next year. Luck will be around awhile and Richardson now has a pretty good organization to work for, that will make a world of difference. While the Browns have another wasted season and no reason to really hope for anything more just because of more picks, the Browns have not proven they know what to do with picks. Stop trying to tell me they got 10 picks, the way they draft, most will bust anyways. I am not a fan of Lombardi at all, and we already know Banner can't run a company right.

Wait, wut?

Again, Richardson's draft position is completely meaningless in scrutinizing this deal. I think it's pretty clear at this point that he was a product of a dominant offensive line and a great coach in college. The Browns made the correct move in trading him to a team with an RB need for a 1st rounder. Had they kept him and he produced another mediocre season this year (which was going to happen, let's be honest,) there is no way they get a first rounder for him between the Super Bowl and the draft.

Holding on to Richardson simply because he was the #3 pick in last year's draft would be akin to sticking in a poker pot when you hold pocket aces, and your opponent flops a set and shows them to you before shoving. But wait, I had aces, they still have to be good, right?

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

What would have Mark Ingram cost the colts?

 

[pizzatyme]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Sure there are. There is ZERO guarantee that any management staff can find them however. Especially this Browns staff. It is more luck of the draw.

 

[CalBear]

Even still, T-rich has not really shown to be a talent worth more than a mid-late 1st anyway.

The tricky part is, neither do most mid-late 1st round picks.

 

[pizzatyme]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Anyone want action on higher YPC -- Richardson's Browns career vs Willis McGahee rest of the year (assuming he passes the physical and signs)? I'll take Willis -.15 yards.

 

[pollardsvision]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

It is relevant.

Seattle didn't give the 1st round pick for him. The Bills did. Like what happens often, it didn't work out for them.

A smarter team ended up benefiting by getting a talented RB at a discount.

Good, smart teams often have talented RB's. More often than not, they didn't give up valuable resources (high first round picks) to acquire them though.

Championship caliber teams are littered with RBs that came at a discount or have effective RBBC's.

I'm struggling to think of many Championship caliber teams, recently, that drafted a RB in the Top 10, turned him into a bell cow that they built around.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I think it's a lose/lose for both teams long-term.

If I were the Colts GM, I would quit after being overriden on such a risky and unnecessary maneuver.

When was the last time, in the salary cap era, that a huge trade like this panned out well? It doesn't, because draft picks are gold (and should be treated as such). The Colts traded away a 1st, 4th, and 7th ... ammunition they could have used to get virtually any player outside of the top 15 in next year's draft, whom would have had 4 years of a controlled contract.

You don't build championship teams with moves like this ... look at the Super Bowl champions of the past decade. How many of them had a big free agent signing that ended up as a core member of the winning the big game? I can't find a single one. The Packers, Patriots, Giants, Ravens, and Steelers are all built through draft and develop. None of those teams ever give much in draft picks for players. And when they do? How has Amendola turned out?

The Colts already have the most important factor that all of those teams possessed, anyway (Ravens are debatable).

 

[DoubleG]

It actually could be win/win. The Browns, of course, need to do something useful with that pick (yeah, I know - only the Raiders could figure out a way to do less with it). For the Colts it seems an odd move in some ways. You have the building blocks for a very good offense - a solid bunch of WRs with a veteran leader in Wayne, one of the better young QBs in the league - and Bradshaw has looked decent. I was surprise they gave up a first to get Richardson. I would think a lower pick for a Michael Bush type player to backup Bradshaw would have made more sense.

I do think the Colts now are set up to have (if not this year in the very near future) one of the better offenses in the league. Between Luck and the WRs - adding one of the most talented (even if it hasn't shown up on the stat sheet) RBs is huge. If the Colts can add another WR and strengthen the defense, they may be in for a long run of deep playoff runs in 2014 and following.

 

[Jewell]

I rather have the 1st and 3rd picks from last year then the 1st and 22nd next year.

As has already been addressed, the fact that Richardson was the third overall pick is irrelevant. We have already seen Richardson in the NFL so we're comparing his NFL value vs. the value of a first round pick in the twenties, not the value of a #3 pick vs. a #22 pick. After seeing Richardson in the NFL for over a little over a season now, it's reasonable to suggest that his value is less than the value of a twenty-something draft pick. Of course, knowing the Browns, they could blow that pick.

 

[Jewell]

It actually could be win/win.

I agree. I think both teams will have their best interests served with the trade.I didn't want to give a win-win option in the poll because I wanted to force people to pick a side because even in win-win situations one side often makes out slightly better.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Flipping a bust for a 1st round pick? Great work by Cleveland.

 

[CalBear]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

It is relevant.

Seattle didn't give the 1st round pick for him. The Bills did. Like what happens often, it didn't work out for them.

A smarter team ended up benefiting by getting a talented RB at a discount.

Good, smart teams often have talented RB's. More often than not, they didn't give up valuable resources (high first round picks) to acquire them though.

Championship caliber teams are littered with RBs that came at a discount or have effective RBBC's.

I'm struggling to think of many Championship caliber teams, recently, that drafted a RB in the Top 10, turned him into a bell cow that they built around.

Replace "RB" with "QB" in your post and you can see how fatuous your line of reasoning is.

2012: Joe Flacco (pick 18)

2011: Eli Manning (trade)

2010: Aaron Rodgers (pick 24)

2009: Drew Brees (free agent)

2008: Roethlisberger (pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning

2006: Peyton Manning (pick 1)

2005: Roethlisberger

2004: Brady (sixth round)

2003: Brady

2002: Brad Johnson (ninth round)

2001: Brady

2000: Trent Dilfer (free agent)

1999: Kurt Warner (Shop Rite)

1998: John Elway (trade because he's a whiny puke)

1997: John Elway

1996: Brett Favre (trade)

1995: Troy Aikman (pick 1)

1994: Steve Young (supplemental draft)

1993: Aikman

1992: Aikman

1991: Mark Rypien (sixth round)

1990: Phil Simms (pick 7)

1989: Joe Montana (third round)

1988: Joe Montana

So, in the last 25 years, there have been a grand total of three championship QBs who were drafted in the top 10 by the team they took to the championship. If I spot you Eli and Elway it's five. So, it is clearly possible to obtain a championship-level QB outside the top 10 of the first round.

Of course there's a selection bias in any study like this, which is that teams drafting in the top 10 are not Super Bowl contenders in the first place. Every single position will have the same effect.

 

[pizzatyme]

I rather have the 1st and 3rd picks from last year then the 1st and 22nd next year.

As has already been addressed, the fact that Richardson was the third overall pick is irrelevant. We have already seen Richardson in the NFL so we're comparing his NFL value vs. the value of a first round pick in the twenties, not the value of a #3 pick vs. a #22 pick.After seeing Richardson in the NFL for over a little over a season now, it's reasonable to suggest that his value is less than the value of a twenty-something draft pick. Of course, knowing the Browns, they could blow that pick.

And of course we know the Browns used Richardson in the best way possible, right?

 

[Da Guru]

I agree that it does not matter where Richardson was drafted. Richardson right now would be a late second or even third rd pick in terms of his talent and how it translated to the NFL game. . If they use the pick correctly the can upgrade in talent. At this point they need that more than an average RB,

 

[twistd]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

You say that Pro Bowl running backs can be taken deep in the draft every year. Do you know how many Pro Bowl running backs have been taken in the draft, in the third round or later, since 2006? The answer to that would be two. They are Jamaal Charles and Alfred Morris. That is out of 127 backs drafted in the third round or later during that period. There are players who have contributed or been starters, like Bradshaw, Michael Bush, Shonn Greene, Steven Ridley, Demarco Murray, Darryl Richardson, and Lamar Miller. But, again, that is out of 127 backs that were drafted. It is certainly a lot harder to find a running back who has the potential to be a starter later in drafts than people seem to think. So, using this sample, if you draft a RB in the third round or later, the chances of the back becoming a Pro Bowl player is 1.57%. Seems a lot tougher than you seem to think.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

It is relevant.

Seattle didn't give the 1st round pick for him. The Bills did. Like what happens often, it didn't work out for them.

A smarter team ended up benefiting by getting a talented RB at a discount.

Good, smart teams often have talented RB's. More often than not, they didn't give up valuable resources (high first round picks) to acquire them though.

Championship caliber teams are littered with RBs that came at a discount or have effective RBBC's.

I'm struggling to think of many Championship caliber teams, recently, that drafted a RB in the Top 10, turned him into a bell cow that they built around.

Replace "RB" with "QB" in your post and you can see how fatuous your line of reasoning is.

2012: Joe Flacco (pick 18)

2011: Eli Manning (trade)

2010: Aaron Rodgers (pick 24)

2009: Drew Brees (free agent)

2008: Roethlisberger (pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning

2006: Peyton Manning (pick 1)

2005: Roethlisberger

2004: Brady (sixth round)

2003: Brady

2002: Brad Johnson (ninth round)

2001: Brady

2000: Trent Dilfer (free agent)

1999: Kurt Warner (Shop Rite)

1998: John Elway (trade because he's a whiny puke)

1997: John Elway

1996: Brett Favre (trade)

1995: Troy Aikman (pick 1)

1994: Steve Young (supplemental draft)

1993: Aikman

1992: Aikman

1991: Mark Rypien (sixth round)

1990: Phil Simms (pick 7)

1989: Joe Montana (third round)

1988: Joe Montana

So, in the last 25 years, there have been a grand total of three championship QBs who were drafted in the top 10 by the team they took to the championship. If I spot you Eli and Elway it's five. So, it is clearly possible to obtain a championship-level QB outside the top 10 of the first round.

Of course there's a selection bias in any study like this, which is that teams drafting in the top 10 are not Super Bowl contenders in the first place. Every single position will have the same effect.

What a disingenuous post.

Eli and Elway absolutely count. so 11 out of the last 25 SB's were won by a QB drafted in the top 11. And 15 of the last 25 were won by QB's that were drafted within the first 33 picks.

 

[pizzatyme]

Preposterous! I just wanted to use an "ous" here.

 

[massraider]

The vote count is exactly where it should be. I believe in no way the Browns won this deal. I rather have the 1st and 3rd picks from last year then the 1st and 22nd next year. Luck will be around awhile and Richardson now has a pretty good organization to work for, that will make a world of difference. While the Browns have another wasted season and no reason to really hope for anything more just because of more picks, the Browns have not proven they know what to do with picks. Stop trying to tell me they got 10 picks, the way they draft, most will bust anyways. I am not a fan of Lombardi at all, and we already know Banner can't run a company right.

Have a lot of evidence that this front office can't draft, do you?

 

[pollardsvision]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

It is relevant.

Seattle didn't give the 1st round pick for him. The Bills did. Like what happens often, it didn't work out for them.

A smarter team ended up benefiting by getting a talented RB at a discount.

Good, smart teams often have talented RB's. More often than not, they didn't give up valuable resources (high first round picks) to acquire them though.

Championship caliber teams are littered with RBs that came at a discount or have effective RBBC's.

I'm struggling to think of many Championship caliber teams, recently, that drafted a RB in the Top 10, turned him into a bell cow that they built around.

Replace "RB" with "QB" in your post and you can see how fatuous your line of reasoning is.

2012: Joe Flacco (pick 18)

2011: Eli Manning (trade)

2010: Aaron Rodgers (pick 24)

2009: Drew Brees (free agent)

2008: Roethlisberger (pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning

2006: Peyton Manning (pick 1)

2005: Roethlisberger

2004: Brady (sixth round)

2003: Brady

2002: Brad Johnson (ninth round)

2001: Brady

2000: Trent Dilfer (free agent)

1999: Kurt Warner (Shop Rite)

1998: John Elway (trade because he's a whiny puke)

1997: John Elway

1996: Brett Favre (trade)

1995: Troy Aikman (pick 1)

1994: Steve Young (supplemental draft)

1993: Aikman

1992: Aikman

1991: Mark Rypien (sixth round)

1990: Phil Simms (pick 7)

1989: Joe Montana (third round)

1988: Joe Montana

So, in the last 25 years, there have been a grand total of three championship QBs who were drafted in the top 10 by the team they took to the championship. If I spot you Eli and Elway it's five. So, it is clearly possible to obtain a championship-level QB outside the top 10 of the first round.

Of course there's a selection bias in any study like this, which is that teams drafting in the top 10 are not Super Bowl contenders in the first place. Every single position will have the same effect.

Are we really playing this game?

So, in making your point, we see that the last 8 straight SB winning QBs required either a 1st round pick or a huge FA contract to acquire?

We can put the line wherever we like, but the point is very simple.

It's smart to invest high resources to get a franchise QB, whether it's picks or money. Sometimes you can find great value late, but it's so absolutely necessary, that there's almost no price too high to take a shot.

Comparing that with the necessity of having a franchise-type RB and how smart it is to invest heavily to get it is no comparison at all.

Put another way, teams would love to have elite players at every single position. But in a salary cap league, that's obviously impossible.

Finding elite talent and paying for it is simply more important at some positions than others.

QB is the clear-cut #1 on that list.

I'm not sure where RB is, but it's in the bottom half.

 

[CalBear]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Lynch was a 1st Rd. draft pick! What Seattle got him for is irrelevant. The fact that Seattle got him on the cheap doesn't eliminate the fact he was a 1st rd. talent.

It is relevant.

Seattle didn't give the 1st round pick for him. The Bills did. Like what happens often, it didn't work out for them.

A smarter team ended up benefiting by getting a talented RB at a discount.

Good, smart teams often have talented RB's. More often than not, they didn't give up valuable resources (high first round picks) to acquire them though.

Championship caliber teams are littered with RBs that came at a discount or have effective RBBC's.

I'm struggling to think of many Championship caliber teams, recently, that drafted a RB in the Top 10, turned him into a bell cow that they built around.

Replace "RB" with "QB" in your post and you can see how fatuous your line of reasoning is.

2012: Joe Flacco (pick 18)

2011: Eli Manning (trade)

2010: Aaron Rodgers (pick 24)

2009: Drew Brees (free agent)

2008: Roethlisberger (pick 11)

2007: Eli Manning

2006: Peyton Manning (pick 1)

2005: Roethlisberger

2004: Brady (sixth round)

2003: Brady

2002: Brad Johnson (ninth round)

2001: Brady

2000: Trent Dilfer (free agent)

1999: Kurt Warner (Shop Rite)

1998: John Elway (trade because he's a whiny puke)

1997: John Elway

1996: Brett Favre (trade)

1995: Troy Aikman (pick 1)

1994: Steve Young (supplemental draft)

1993: Aikman

1992: Aikman

1991: Mark Rypien (sixth round)

1990: Phil Simms (pick 7)

1989: Joe Montana (third round)

1988: Joe Montana

So, in the last 25 years, there have been a grand total of three championship QBs who were drafted in the top 10 by the team they took to the championship. If I spot you Eli and Elway it's five. So, it is clearly possible to obtain a championship-level QB outside the top 10 of the first round.

Of course there's a selection bias in any study like this, which is that teams drafting in the top 10 are not Super Bowl contenders in the first place. Every single position will have the same effect.

Are we really playing this game?

So, in making your point, we see that the last 8 straight SB winning QBs required either a 1st round pick or a huge FA contract to acquire?

We can put the line wherever we like, but the point is very simple.

No, you can't put the line wherever you like; that's called "multiple endpoints" and it leads to sloppy thinking.

It's obvious that QBs are more valuable than RBs. But looking at who was on which team in the Super Bowl is a terrible way to analyze anything.

 

[craxie]

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

So is Montario Hardesty a 5.2 ypc player?

 

[pizzatyme]

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

So is Montario Hardesty a 5.2 ypc player?

Not computing. His YPC is well below that in Cleveland.

 

[FDC]

More relevant to me are recent 1st round RB picks and the respective franchise's playoff performance return on that investment (because playoffs are where Indy's measuring stick is with a trade like this)

2011 Mark Ingram

2010 Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best

2009 Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells

2008 McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Mendenhall, Chris Johnson

Now, I do not intend to suggest that Richardson is a similar talent to a lot of these picks. There is just no ignoring that in the current climate of a pass happy RBBC NFL - more often than not 1st rounders are better spent on other positions.

 

[craxie]

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

So is Montario Hardesty a 5.2 ypc player?

Not computing. His YPC is well below that in Cleveland.

Last year Hardesty had 4.2 ypc (while Trent had 3.6). If playing in Cleveland subtracts 1 ypc from your 'real' ability, that means Hardesty is really a 5.2 ypc player . . .

 

[packseasontix]

People act like the Colts would have gotten some amazing talent when they pick around 18-22 this year most likely. With that pick your getting:

Melvin Ingram LB Shea McClellin DE Kendall Wright WR Chandler Jones DE Brandon Weeden QB Corey Liuget DE Prince Amukamara DB Adrian Clayborn DE Phillip Taylor DT Anthony Castonzo T Maurkice Pouncey C Sean Weatherspoon OLB Kareem Jackson CB Jermaine Gresham TE Demaryius Thomas WR Robert Ayers LB Jeremy Maclin WR Brandon Pettigrew TE Alex Mack C Percy Harvin WR Joe Flacco QB Jeff Otah T Aqib Talib CB Sam Baker T Felix Jones RB

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Who is the best starting qb in the league right now who might be on the market next year? Is that qb worth less than TR? Perhaps Romo? Roethlisburger?

 

[Run It Up]

Who is the best starting qb in the league right now who might be on the market next year? Is that qb worth less than TR? Perhaps Romo? Roethlisburger?

Cutler or Rivers maybe, and neither are worth less than TRich.

 

[steelcityman]

unless the Clowns get to draft a super star QB the likes of P Manning or a Big Ben in the first rd with that Colts pick, which will be around 20th or lower pick in first rd, which they will NOT do(they are the Clowns), this deal is awfully sloped towards the Colts. And since my team is in the AFC North, not only do I love the deal(bye Trent), but it also shows the inability of the Cleveland front office.

Colts get A+

Browns get F-

 

[pizzatyme]

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

So is Montario Hardesty a 5.2 ypc player?

Not computing. His YPC is well below that in Cleveland.

Last year Hardesty had 4.2 ypc (while Trent had 3.6). If playing in Cleveland subtracts 1 ypc from your 'real' ability, that means Hardesty is really a 5.2 ypc player . . .

Hardesty was a 2nd Rd. pick, not some FA off the street. He also averaged 3.0 YPC in 2011.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Who is the best starting qb in the league right now who might be on the market next year? Is that qb worth less than TR? Perhaps Romo? Roethlisburger?

Starters in the league with less value than Richardson:

Gabbert

Ponder

 

[Buckna]

How interesting will it be come draft day next April and Bridgewater (or whoever their chosen savior is) pulls an Eli?