Richardson Trade Poll: Which team got the better end of the deal? (1 Viewer)

[One]

Feels weird saying it, but at this point I like the Browns' end of the deal. TRich hasn't been very impressive up to this point.

Ask me again in a year and might be singing another tune. We won't know until we know if the pick pans out or not.

 

[jdkapow]

This poll should be 100% Colts.

You must have misread: the question was "who got the BETTER end of the deal." I think the deal may turn out to be good for both teams, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the Browns didn't clean up.

 

[shader]

This poll should be 100% Colts.

You must have misread: the question was "who got the BETTER end of the deal." I think the deal may turn out to be good for both teams, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the Browns didn't clean up.

So what if Trent turns out to be just what most NFL teams thought he was? Then did they "clean up?"

 

[pollardsvision]

This poll should be 100% Colts.

You must have misread: the question was "who got the BETTER end of the deal." I think the deal may turn out to be good for both teams, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the Browns didn't clean up.

So what if Trent turns out to be just what most NFL teams thought he was? Then did they "clean up?"

It wouldn't look very good, obviously, but I expect Trent will be much better in Indy than he was in CLE with a decent shot to be great. He's a good RB.

But that wouldn't mean CLE made a bad move here.

The CLE offense was terrible with RIchardson. He may very well be the perfect piece for IND, but that doesn't mean he was changing the trajectory for the CLE franchise in a meaningful way.

That pick is more valuable to CLE than Richardson was.

I have little doubt that CLE will stink, IND will make the playoffs because they have Luck and play in the AFC South, and that people will point to those two things to judge the trade, but that would be wrong, imo.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Browns basically get a redo for spending a top 10 pick on a running back. They have no chance of competing current and by the time they get the pieces together Richardson will likely either be done or moved onto a new team. Yes, he was their best offensive weapon. That didn't translate to wins, nor is Richardson good enough to build your team around and you're desperately struggling to get any relevant quarterback on the field (let alone a franchise one). All he can do for you is help your poop offense win a handful of games and if you're Cleveland you don't want to do that. Bottom out, get a QB, try again.

Those sunk costs hurt, but that's not the current FO's doing. And even if it was, just suck it up and realize you made a mistake and move on. This smells like "smart but unpopular move," not "franchise that's making random moves in the hopes of getting better."

I was shocked they managed a 1st rounder out of this deal. Ask yourself, how many running backs not named Adrian Peterson are worth 1st rounders?

Also, the 1st that they're getting from the Colts is likely going to be higher than last year's. Indianapolis's expected record was around 7 wins, but they ran insanely hot and varianced into an extra 4 wins. They should be regressing to the mean, and even if Mike Lombardi doesn't know that, Alec Scheiner definitely does.Of course this all assumes the new FO is better than the old one.

You do realize that Mike Lombardi is part of the front office right?

I would not be willing to make the assumption that the FO is better. Not that it was in any ways good before.

I would be pissed as a fan for being sold a lie essentially all this off season.

The Colts did tank for Luck. So perhaps this enabled them to influence the Browns based on their recent experience.

The CBA changes are impacting this as did the 2013 draft where no RB was a 1st round pick. The writing has been on the wall with this for a long time. RB are just not as valuable as they used to be. If all of the teams agree with that, then they are not worth 1st round picks any more. A truly exceptional RB or a team looking to fill that need maybe pushes that value up for some teams in some draft classes, but the overall trend does seem to be team valuing them lower than they have in the past.

So for the Colts to still give up a 1st round pick for Richardson tells me they think he is very valuable.

Part of it is about being able to compete for championships. The Colts believe they have their QB. So adding a great RB to Luck makes sense. All the Browns had was Richardson, and RB do not do as well without a good QB. So in a sense they help teams win more games, but those teams will still always need a good QB to win in the playoffs.

 

[madviking10]

The Vikings did....

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/809/revisiting-the-vikings-browns-trade

 

[jdkapow]

This poll should be 100% Colts.

You must have misread: the question was "who got the BETTER end of the deal." I think the deal may turn out to be good for both teams, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the Browns didn't clean up.

So what if Trent turns out to be just what most NFL teams thought he was? Then did they "clean up?"

Absolutely. Now, they may end up blowing the pick, but that's irrelevant to this move. A first-round pick is more valuable to a rebuilding team than a RB, period.

 

[shader]

This poll should be 100% Colts.

You must have misread: the question was "who got the BETTER end of the deal." I think the deal may turn out to be good for both teams, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the Browns didn't clean up.

So what if Trent turns out to be just what most NFL teams thought he was? Then did they "clean up?"

Absolutely. Now, they may end up blowing the pick, but that's irrelevant to this move. A first-round pick is more valuable to a rebuilding team than a RB, period.

A first round pick is worthless until you use it and get a player for it. If Indy finishes 10-6 what player will the Browns get? Will that player be more valuable than Trent? Impossible to know.

 

[shader]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

 

[Biabreakable]

The Vikings did....

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/809/revisiting-the-vikings-browns-trade

The Vikings would have been able to really use Richardson well also. Imagine if the Vikings had Richardson and Peterson with all the FBs and other things built around the running game (many of which have been missing 1st 2 weeks btw.. affects Peterson's production when Zach Line is your FB instead of Felton). Of course the Vikings still needed to draft Kalil either way.

Anyhow, Richardson and Peterson on the same team would be pretty sick.

I think Richardson is a bit like Edgerrin James. Now he will be wearing the same uniform. Luck has a long ways to go to be Manning. But he is better than Weeden. The Colts could use some better offensive linemen, but overall I think this is a positive for Richardson and the Colts. Not that bad to give up the 1st round pick if they make the playoffs again. Even with the depressed value at the RB position the Colts likely would not have been looking at a RB as talented as Richardson in the 20's of the 2014 draft.

The Browns had Walrus and Chilly but then they blew up the whole build around the RB philosophy once those guys got canned. I guess Norv does not do that anymore.

 

[amnesiac]

it's funny to me that people are disregarding the Browns' fans opinions as sour grapes.

who's seen more of Richardson then they have?

IMO this trade is essentially a wash.

Browns get good value getting a first for a RB, and the Colts get a solid RB for a playoff run.

 

[Bob Magaw]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They were right.

so you are thinking he remains at 3.5 a pop with colts?

hypothetically, what kind of yardage and TD numbers would he need to put up where you would concede you were mistaken?

 

[Arwald]

The Colts saw their QB-rookie-contract closing fast and want to do stuff before they have to pay Luck (and TY Hilton) big money. Getting T-Rich means they will have another player that is at least 2 years (counting this one) on a very cheap contract. I think the deal stinks for them, because it will mean once the contracts are up, they have an bigger problem and no money to overhaul the defense.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Wow. I'm surprised it's this even. When I saw the crawl I couldn't believe the Browns would be that dumb.

Maybe I'm the dummy, but Richardson sure looks like a talented guy who plays hurt when needed. He's a three-down back. His numbers weren't awesome, but he played on a garbage team where no defense respected the QB.

So instead of improving the garbage team around him, they ditch him for a late first-round draft pick? I don't get it. He seems like a guy you'd want to build around; not trade away so you can keep building.

Maybe it will turn out different and the Browns will look like geniuses. I'm not a fan of the team, but I wouldn't mind being wrong. Those fans deserve something good after all the embarrassments. I hope it works out for them, but I like this trade for the Colts.

 

[tfreiboth]

I guess I am confused.

Here are Vick Ballards stats from last year (per MFL)

Attempts: 211

Yards: 814

TDs: 2

Rec: 17

Yards : 152

TDs: 1

Targets: 27

Here are Delone Carter's stats from last year (per MFL)

Attempts: 32

Yards: 122

TDs: 3

Rec: 1

Yards : 13

TDs: 0

Targets: 2

Adding them together you get the following totals for Dellavick BaCarter:
261 Total touches
1101 Total Yards
6 Total TDs

I doubt that any of you here - even the ones that are calling Trent Richardson a bum or a bust (after a year playing injured and 2 games this season) think that either of these two players combined (its a bit of a reach - but bear with me) are better than Trent. I bet he performs well above that stat line for the remainder of the year. Luck is a smart accurate passer and Trent can catch the ball.

Teams can no longer key on him as there are actual playmakers on offense in INDY.

He went from a team that is horrible each and every year to a playoff contender.

He went from the AFC North where he had to face Baltimore, the Steelers, and the Improved Bengals Def twice a year to the AFC south where he gets to play the Jags 2x a year.

He went from a team that has Brandon Weeden, Greg Little (and his stone hands), Jordan Cameron and J Gordon (sometimes)? to a team that has Andrew Luck, TY Hilton, Reggie Wayne, Fleener and Allen at TE and Bradshaw as a COP back.

He had Norv Turner as an OC (who is absolutely atrocious at his job) and a head coach that actually thought it was a good idea to allow a horrible QB to chuck it 53 times to JV Wide Receivers and give Trent 15 total touches in the opening game of the season.

Keep in mind the Browns played Miami and Baltimore the first two games of this season (2 pretty good defensive teams)

Trent must be as ecstatic as Lebron to get out of Cleveland and that train wreck of a organization (without a staph infection).

I'll concede that the Browns probably weren't going to make the playoffs this year and that RBs have been devalued with the new passing rules that protect WRs and QBs, but as early as a month ago he was the consensus number one overall player in dynasty. Can a majority of fantasy experts across multiple sites all be wrong? I doubt it.

I own him in 2 of my 8 dynos and I couldn't be happier about his new situation.

Furthermore, the Browns getting Bridgewater isn't a slam dunk - the Jags, Raiders, Jets, Vikings and Titans might have something to say about that.

And Bridgewater is playing against inferior college competition - will his game translate to the NFL? There are so many "what ifs" it truly is impossible to tell who "won this trade".

It will be interesting to see :
-if any more info is released as to why Trent was traded
-if Trent is over all of his injuries and can stay healthy
-If the Colts make the play offs
-What draft pick the Browns get
-Who they get with their draft picks
-How long they put up with Norvall and his antics (I thought about applying for the Browns OC position after game 1)

PS - I don't buy the Alabama RB thing (Yeldon - TBD) and the Tedford QB thing (Rodgers). There are no absolutes and exceptions to most rules.

If I was smarter or soberer and not catching up on Walking Dead episodes on Netflix while I am typing this I would make some kind of poll that determined opinions of T-Rich owners vs. non-owners.

I would vote that it Helps the Colts and T Rich and its a coin flip depending on what pick/player the Browns get (so probably hurts given their ineptitude at drafting the past many years)...

Long rant...

carry on

T

 

[CalBear]

Ok. Past, present, obviously disaster for Browns. You trade a guy you invested time and money in for a lower pick than he cost you.

But... we dont live in the past and the Browns are going nowhere in the present. So, much like a card game, if you can throw away a hand you think is losing for future opportunity, thats a small victory. It doesnt matter what you already have in the pot, thats spent money. Is it the best move NOW to maximize your value.

Obviously, we dont know and wont for a while, but its either a panic move, or a ballsy, hardcore move. Remains to be seen.

If you want to use a poker analogy, you don't have to see the river card to figure out if your bet on the turn was a good move. In fact, the river card is completely irrelevant.

So, we don't need to see who the Browns take with the first round pick and how well he does to evaluate whether it's a good trade or not. The question is whether the value that a solid young RB would deliver over his career with the team is greater than the value of a mid-first-round pick.

And I think the answer is, yes. Half of first round picks are outright busts, and probably half of the remainder aren't as good as Richardson.

True, but the poker analogy only goes so far because the pick is something the Browns have some control over.

As far as 1st round picks... truish, if you were entirely right more teams would be picking RBs in the 1st round. The 'problem' is you can get a quality RB later in the draft or off the street. Otoh, you may only have a 50% or lower shot at a 1st round pick paying off, but if its a tackle, or a cb, or a qb that pans out, it could be almost priceless. Nobody is trading a young successful stud at a more diffucult position to fill for any amount of draft picks.

The fact that some quality RBs come later in the draft does not mean that you can get a quality RB later in the draft. Fantasy players screw this up all the time, with "why would I take Rodgers in the first or second when I can get Cam Newton in the seventh?" Answer: Because Rodgers is better than Cam Newton, and the fact that Tom Brady was a sixth-round pick doesn't make Newton any better, or make it any more likely that in 2014, you can get a franchise QB in the sixth round.

 

[rockaction]

it's funny to me that people are disregarding the Browns' fans opinions as sour grapes.

who's seen more of Richardson then they have?

IMO this trade is essentially a wash.

Browns get good value getting a first for a RB, and the Colts get a solid RB for a playoff run.

I agree with this. I'm starting to think that reliable, every-down RBs are now golden and that the market is going have to correct to get back to their actual value.

None of this Shanahan "we can just plug in a fifth-rounder" stuff. That's only for a few teams, and it seems they all have zone-blocking schemes with a specific skill set.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I think it's a lose/lose for both teams long-term.

If I were the Colts GM, I would quit after being overriden on such a risky and unnecessary maneuver.

When was the last time, in the salary cap era, that a huge trade like this panned out well? It doesn't, because draft picks are gold (and should be treated as such). The Colts traded away a 1st, 4th, and 7th ... ammunition they could have used to get virtually any player outside of the top 15 in next year's draft, whom would have had 4 years of a controlled contract.

You don't build championship teams with moves like this ... look at the Super Bowl champions of the past decade. How many of them had a big free agent signing that ended up as a core member of the winning the big game? I can't find a single one. The Packers, Patriots, Giants, Ravens, and Steelers are all built through draft and develop. None of those teams ever give much in draft picks for players. And when they do? How has Amendola turned out?

For the Browns... I've never seen a clearer case of throwing in the towel on a season. This is awful for their fan base and could have lasting repercussions. I would be demanding a refund of my season tickets if I was a Cleveland fan. Winning does solve everything, so if they get the right QB then it will turn it around quickly.

Another note that I can't seem to get past, is that Rod Chuzziniznznik (whatever his name is) has made comments about Richardson not fitting his scheme. For f*cking real? That's just bad coaching. Great coaches, the Belichecks, Coughlins, McCarthys, Capers (and so on) take the talent available and design the best scheme with what they have. They don't pigeon-hole whatever players they come across into the same X's and O's that were successful for them in the past. That's just lazy, and very bad coaching. Hopefully Richardson is a better fit with what Indy is doing, or they use him more wisely.

agree the comment that rich wasn't scheme fit inexplicable...possible organizational exceptions, agree in general that is how they operate... sometimes big trades or free agent moves can be a positive... IND no stranger to trades in last year (vontae davis cost second), and hard to argue with their 2012 success...

GB - more than decade ago (two), reggie white ushered in blockbuster free agent signings, instrumental in packs first super bowl since 60s... not exception, more confirmation of your observations of principles of successful NFL organizations - was it ron wolf that was a master at parlaying late QB picks like brooks and hasselbeck into higher draft picks (PHI and NE have proven adept at this, too)...

NE - corey dillon cost second, worked out pretty well... but confirming your points, pats masters of trading down, getting salary cap benefit of low firsts and seconds, also stockpiling future picks... when they used high picks like on seymour and mayo, generally nailed them...

NYG - giants made bold move and paid dearly for eli in draft picks, reaped two super bowls... like a lot of these teams, have otherwise done a great job of letting the draft come to them...

BAL - dumervil not insignificant free agent signing as recently as this year... but the "norm"... scooping up future hall of farmers like lewis and reed in latter first round...

PIT - got nothing here, you are right, stick to organizational blue print of letting value fall to them in draft, don't recall any noteworthy trades or free agent moves off top of my head...

two other teams that are arguably two best in power rankings have made big moves recently...

DEN - peyton manning was obviously by far the biggest, best and most impactful free agent of 2012, seemed risky at time with potential career-ending neck injury, in retrospect stroke of genius...

SEA - traded first for harvin, maybe biggest move this year? he had some medical risk, and had clashed with Vikings... one of biggest difference makers in league when healthy... they looked dominant against SF at home (if not CAR on road), imagine the offense once they on board harvin... scary thought to NFC West and rest of NFC/league...

 

[nxmehta]

Trent has run against 8+ in the box for his whole NFL career. Even with a worse line, having a legit passing attack will up his numbers considerably.

People who think the Browns won this trade haven't been watching every single Richardson snap like us Browns fans. They also don't know Michael Lombardi's drafting history.

This is a slam dunk for the Colts. With an elite front office, this might have been a wash. But guys, it's the BROWNS, we haven't had a good front office for about 50 years.

 

[ghostguy123]

The Browns screwed up last year taking a RB in the top 3 and a 29 year old QB with their other 1st round pick. I thought that was a piss poor allocation of those resources at the time, and so did everyone I was watching with. We were all super ticked off.

That top 3 RB hasn't looked anything but average to slightly above average. They got a 1st round pick. And actually if you look at the Colts schedule, there is a very distinct possibility they miss the playoffs. It's no coincidence BEFORE last week's loss Vegas had the Colts at almost 2-1 to make the playoffs. Some games left:

49ers

Seahawks

Broncos

Texans twice

At Tennessee

At Cincy

At Kansas City

The do get the Jags twice, but the chargers, titans, rams, and cardinals are all games that are no guarantee.

So before people say this was some surefire pick in the mid 20s................slow your roll there. A pick around 14-15 is no huge stretch.

Even still, T-rich has not really shown to be a talent worth more than a mid-late 1st anyway.

And I cant say which team got the better end, because they are going after two different things. Colts want to (and actually CAN) win now.

The Browns want as many bullets as they can to finally get a real QB.

 

[Donsmith753]

Lot of people are going to look really stupid on Richardson, and I still think this is a win win assuming Cleveland finds a QB.

Ask Vikings fans if they'd trade ADP a year after he came out for a young franchise QB, I'd think many would say yes.

 

[ghostguy123]

Lot of people are going to look really stupid on Richardson, and I still think this is a win win assuming Cleveland finds a QB.

Ask Vikings fans if they'd trade ADP a year after he came out for a young franchise QB, I'd think many would say yes.

Problem with this post.....................you can't compare Richardson to Peterson. They dont belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or page.

I am thinking too many people are looking at this from a fantasy football dynasty trade standpoint, and duh, it would be dumb to deal Richardson for one 2014 1st in a dynasty league.

However, the NFL is about actual quality production, not volume generated numbers on a live scoring screen.

 

[Donsmith753]

Lot of people are going to look really stupid on Richardson, and I still think this is a win win assuming Cleveland finds a QB.

Ask Vikings fans if they'd trade ADP a year after he came out for a young franchise QB, I'd think many would say yes.

Problem with this post.....................you can't compare Richardson to Peterson. They dont belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or page.

I am thinking too many people are looking at this from a fantasy football dynasty trade standpoint, and duh, it would be dumb to deal Richardson for one 2014 1st in a dynasty league.

However, the NFL is about actual quality production, not volume generated numbers on a live scoring screen.

Im using Peterson to state why this is a good deal for the Browns. I'd imagine they'd give up Peterson (who's one of the greatest of all time) so they're definitely right to give up Richardson.

All of this assuming they get their franchise QB

 

[ghostguy123]

Lot of people are going to look really stupid on Richardson, and I still think this is a win win assuming Cleveland finds a QB.

Ask Vikings fans if they'd trade ADP a year after he came out for a young franchise QB, I'd think many would say yes.

Problem with this post.....................you can't compare Richardson to Peterson. They dont belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or page.

I am thinking too many people are looking at this from a fantasy football dynasty trade standpoint, and duh, it would be dumb to deal Richardson for one 2014 1st in a dynasty league.

However, the NFL is about actual quality production, not volume generated numbers on a live scoring screen.

Im using Peterson to state why this is a good deal for the Browns. I'd imagine they'd give up Peterson (who's one of the greatest of all time) so they're definitely right to give up Richardson.

All of this assuming they get their franchise QB

Yep. They BETTER have done this with the intention of selling out for a QB. And they may as well just say it. Saying anything else is a total insult to the intelligence of every human alive.

 

[pizzatyme]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Lot of people are going to look really stupid on Richardson, and I still think this is a win win assuming Cleveland finds a QB.

Ask Vikings fans if they'd trade ADP a year after he came out for a young franchise QB, I'd think many would say yes.

Problem with this post.....................you can't compare Richardson to Peterson. They dont belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or page.

I am thinking too many people are looking at this from a fantasy football dynasty trade standpoint, and duh, it would be dumb to deal Richardson for one 2014 1st in a dynasty league.

However, the NFL is about actual quality production, not volume generated numbers on a live scoring screen.

but he was in the same sentence just a year ago...

scouts said he was the best RB prospect since peterson*...

he didn't look that way in CLE...

we will get a chance to see if the scouts are vindicated with richardson in IND...

* they weren't saying he is identical in a simplistic one-to-one correspondence sense...

any more than scouts that said luck was the best prospect since manning (if not elway) were...

 

[Slider]

Not a great big Richardson fan but love the huge bump for Luck. Should work out just fine for Indy.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I would ask browns fans what if the reason for this trade is the realization that weeden is a complete bust and the picks are a mandatory predicate to get a real QB either thru draft or trade? Even if TR is great if ponder is >>>>> weeden u cant keep TR.

 

[ghostguy123]

I would ask browns fans what if the reason for this trade is the realization that weeden is a complete bust and the picks are a mandatory predicate to get a real QB either thru draft or trade? Even if TR is great if ponder is >>>>> weeden u cant keep TR.

Yes, pretty obvious

 

[Sabertooth]

Considering that you almost have to hand Cleveland the #1 overall pick now I think they will come out better off. But this makes the Colts a very tough team to defend. I think it's potentially a win-win trade.

 

[ghostguy123]

Considering that you almost have to hand Cleveland the #1 overall pick now I think they will come out better off. But this makes the Colts a very tough team to defend. I think it's potentially a win-win trade.

I am telling you with the utmost confidence...............we will not end up with the #1 pick.

 

[Cyclones]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

 

[Sabertooth]

Considering that you almost have to hand Cleveland the #1 overall pick now I think they will come out better off. But this makes the Colts a very tough team to defend. I think it's potentially a win-win trade.

I am telling you with the utmost confidence...............we will not end up with the #1 pick.

Lol, do you think they bag it up by beating Jacksonville?

 

[cstu]

I think it's a lose/lose for both teams long-term.

If I were the Colts GM, I would quit after being overriden on such a risky and unnecessary maneuver.

When was the last time, in the salary cap era, that a huge trade like this panned out well? It doesn't, because draft picks are gold (and should be treated as such). The Colts traded away a 1st, 4th, and 7th ... ammunition they could have used to get virtually any player outside of the top 15 in next year's draft, whom would have had 4 years of a controlled contract.

You don't build championship teams with moves like this ... look at the Super Bowl champions of the past decade. How many of them had a big free agent signing that ended up as a core member of the winning the big game? I can't find a single one. The Packers, Patriots, Giants, Ravens, and Steelers are all built through draft and develop. None of those teams ever give much in draft picks for players. And when they do? How has Amendola turned out?

They got him on a 3 year/$10M deal. This is an extremely cap friendly deal with no guaranteed money after this year. What chance do they have of getting a RB like Trent for a deal like that? A late 1st rookie is going to be a risk and a free agent with any talent is going to want much more than that.

 

[Man of Zen]

Only big problem I have with the Cleveland side of this is that I don't see any franchise QB's in this draft. I know opinions differ, here, but I think this is a deal you pull off if you're chasing one or two of those guys that scouts start comparing to Elway when they're high schoolers. I don't think Teddy Bridgewater is a difference maker for a depleted franchise.

I feel for Browns fans not only because this is a clear signal they're giving up, but because I don't see much hope on the horizon, either.

 

[cstu]

Not a fan of Richardson. I know I'm in the minority but I already posted my thoughts on this in the other thread.

He'll do well from a fantasy perspective now cause he'll never see an 8 or 9 man front in Indy.....but from a real life fantasy perspective I'm of the opinion he's overrated as hell.

Go back and rewatch last weeks game against the Fins. I'm a fins fan mind you....that kid had holes to run through (and against a good Fins front 7) and left a ton of yards on the field. I've never understood the hype on him.

Doing so now...

Ok, watched it and here's what I saw:

- a bunch of good runs and catches where he broke tackles for 5-10 yard gains

- a bunch of runs where he had no blocking

- a couple of plays where he had holes but either cut back the wrong way or didn't cut back decisively enough

Richardson's biggest plays Sunday - (in yards) - 9,5,5,7,7,9. I would hardly call that a "bunch" of plays for 5-10 yards, considering he didn't gain 10 yards on even one touch, and 33% of those plays went for exactly 5 yards. The lack of long gains Richardson has had in his career so far is frighteningly low. Even a bad offensive line occasionally blows open a hole that an explosive running back is able to take advantage of. I live in SEC country and watch a lot of SEC football. Richardson played half his games during his final season at Bama with a massive advantage in OL vs DL. He had NFL guys blocking guys that Bama didn't even look at coming out of high school. He's a bust.

That's almost half his carries in game where he's the primary focus of the defense. Just as an example, look at the first play of the game where Trent gains 9 yards - there were 8 men in the box and safety who made the tackle was playing 10 yards off the LOS. Tell me how often defenses will be able to do that against the Colts.

I have a feeling that people calling Richardson a bust are going to be eating a lot of crow now that on an offense with the defense can't focus on stopping him.

 

[cstu]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

I can't believe anyone is going to show up for the games after this. It's a good thing they did this with a road game coming up because I wouldn't be surprised if the whole stadium was empty if they had a home game Sunday.

 

[cstu]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Ok, you obviously haven't watched the games.

As for Pro Bowl RB's, the last non-1st round RB to make the Pro Bowl was McCoy and that was 5 years ago.

 

[cheese]

Tough one to me because I am in the majority that agrees RBs carry limited value, but I'm also in the minority that believes future 1st round picks are severely overrated. I think I like the Colts end because it helps them today and they are contending.

The Browns already weren't contending, but they really need to be careful not to completely gut it again and lose fans. They have already gone through a lot of rebuilding efforts and the division is finally opening up a window where Baltimore and Pitts are getting worse. I get the theory that the worst thing you can be is 7-9, but that is a franchise that could use anything to cheer about.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Wonder what excuse the Richardson owners will use when the Browns get 4 YPC out of the scrubs they fill their RB spot with the rest of the year?

Look, Trent doesn't suck. But he's also nowhere near the franchise player that most of us thought he was either. He'll be a fine fantasy RB in Indy based on volume in a much better offense, but in NFL terms he's not a difference maker. And honestly, even if he were, I don't think that's necessarily worth a 1st rounder in the NFL. Build a strong line and passing game and use cheap "good enough" RBs is the way to go. How many Lombardis do Peterson and Sanders have?

 

[adrenaline]

I'm not even a Richardson fan & I think the Colts won this. The threat of Luck & Co. will give Trent more room to run. I'm more curious to see what this is going to do to the Browns passing game without the threat of Richardson. That's great that the Browns have all those draft picks if they can manage to draft right.

 

[flysack]

You people are all forgetting that this is the Browns. The chances of them successfully using one of their 2014 first rounders on a franchise QB is slim. I'm calling it now: they'll do something stupid like earn the #2 overall pick and blow it on Johnny Football, who will look "promising" for exactly 4 games as he scrambles around a porous offensive line overmatched by 6 man rushes that could care less about whatever joker is manning the Cleveland backfield, until Johnny melts down from the pressure of being a franchise savior and becomes Ryan Leaf Part Deux.

ETA: meanwhile, in Indy, Trent Richardson goes on to 4 pro bowls and wins a Superbowl ring with Luck and company.

ETA Part Two: And over that four year span, the suicide rate in Cleveland spikes. The story of a guy who carved #6 and #33 into his chest before eating a shotgun becomes a national headline encapsulating the whole sordid affair.

 

[shader]

The other factor not being mentioned is that this isn't a traditional trade. Throw the normal values out the window, because this is week 3 of the season. The Browns now lose the services of Trent for 14 games. What if he explodes with Luck and the Colts roll and make it to The conference finals and Trent becomes a legitimate star, making the pro bowl, etc.

Now what do you sell your fan base? "Yeah but we have a pick now that we can use on a decent defensive lineman!"

Telegraphing that you are tanking is the bottom line here, and it's never good to do that when you are 0-2.

All the people saying that they got great value aren't seeing the point. For this season they got NO value. They just traded away a player.

If the team goes 1-15 then how much heat is going to be on the GM and coach? And then what happens if the qb you just sank your season for needs 2-3 years of seasoning?

I can't believe anyone is going to show up for the games after this. It's a good thing they did this with a road game coming up because I wouldn't be surprised if the whole stadium was empty if they had a home game Sunday.

Yep and it's going to be like a knife in the back each week when Trent dominates, as they realize how far their offense is from the Colts and as they realize what they gave away.

 

[FDC]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

 

[Cyclones]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Ok, you obviously haven't watched the games.

As for Pro Bowl RB's, the last non-1st round RB to make the Pro Bowl was McCoy and that was 5 years ago.

That's a fair statement and I will concede that one to you - I don't watch Cleveland games unless they have no competition, which rarely happens.

I can read a stat sheet though, and when I see a guy get that volume of carries and never bust one, it makes me nervous. With that volume of touches TRich has never busted a really long play. He obviously lacks something. Being a UK fan I've watched SEC defenses feast on our guys for years, and even Kentucky running backs get to daylight sometimes. Richardson hasn't shown that ability since he left the dream situation at Bama, and that's worrisome.

 

[Jayrok]

With an elite front office, this might have been a wash. But guys, it's the BROWNS, we haven't had a good front office for about 50 years.

Yep. They'll probably draft a QB out of the Mountain West who routinely throws for 400 yards against teams like Air Force and Hawaii.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

If last year the Colts had the 1st and 3rd picks and got Luck and TR, I think most would say "amazing" job especially considering they only had to give up a 2014 1st rounder.

Now, the Colts could still use a Guard or 2.

Anyone minimizing TR and comparing him to "someone you could get off the street" is being silly.

His 3.5 YPC is likely 2.5 for a FA off the street on that Browns team!

False. Just because Richardson was the #3 pick in a draft 2 years ago doesn't make him good. He's an average NFL running back, plain and simple. Giving up a first rounder for a guy who can be replaced by a similar

skill set deep in the draft is silly. Doug Martin was selected 28 picks after T Rich and has had (and will have) a much more productive career. Same think with Alfred Morris 170 picks after T Rich.

You can't call Cleveland the loser in this trade because they gave up the #3 pick 2 years ago for what will likely be a pick in the late teens/early twenties this year. They saw first hand every day what they had with Richardson and decided he wasn't worth a first rounder next year. They

were right.

Richardson was drafted in 2012, that is last year not 2 years ago. And pardon me for not considering the Browns as one of the most astute front offices. These guys have no track record in Cleveland.

Richardson is a first round talent that played for a 7th round organization.

Now he gets to shine for a real team. I guess we'll see in a few years how he stands up to Martin and Morris.

Play with the semantics all you want, it was 2 drafts ago.

I've watched probably 30 Alabama games in the last 4 years and have seen Ingram, Richardson, Lacy, and Yeldon run roughshod vs overmatched opponents behind 5 star offensive linemen. Ingram is nothing short of a disaster so far in his NFL career, and in 17 games from Richardson we've seen a guy who is incapable of breaking tackles and has shown little to no explosiveness. Taking him at #3 was idiotic, and the Colts are equally stupid to cough up a first rounder for him when pro bowl running backs can be had deep in the draft every year.

Ok, you obviously haven't watched the games.

As for Pro Bowl RB's, the last non-1st round RB to make the Pro Bowl was McCoy and that was 5 years ago.

And Jones-Drew, Foster, Rice, Forte, Gore

 

[Jewell]

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Great return on investment.

 

[golfguy]

surprised at the poll results

In recent years, how often does overpaying/overdrafting for a RB translate to playoff success?

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

who was coming off 2 bad seasons in buffalo and had numerous off the field issues at the time. and where was he drafted originally? yep in the top 10. so talent is talent. a late 1st rounder for a solid rb to help build around. sold.

 

[cstu]

Seattle landed Lynch with a 4th!

Great return on investment.

It was a 4th and 6th. Great deal for the Seahawks but Lynch also came with a lot of baggage that made him that cheap.