Rick Spielman should be fired (1 Viewer)

[shader]

The facts are that there are no "sure-fire" qb's in this year's draft. It's rare that a QB gets selected that everyone is on board with. I'm sure there are some nervous Panther fans this morning, and I KNOW there is nervousness around the Titans.

But that being said, this is what the scouts get paid for. QB is the most important position by far, and you can't compete unless you have one. Give the guy a chance. Every year some bust and some don't, and the scouting reports often are really wrong once they get schooled and get into a system.

There's really nothing a fan can do here except wait and hope. It's tough to get a great QB in the NFL. Gotta keep swinging for the fences.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

The same Viking fans were VERY upset that they didn't take Jimmy Clausen in the first last year.

I like the pick. I have a feeling the Dolphins and Redskins both wanted him at 15/16 so they couldn't trade down too far if they really wanted him.

 

[Spike]

I am not happy as a Vikings fan. That being said, if Ponder becomes the best QB in this class no one will remember that all the draftniks thought they reached.

True dat.

 

[Sabertooth]

You sound a lot like Buc fans two years ago. Give it some time - no point in judging now.

This is true.

 

[fsufan]

didn't some of you Viking fans want clausen

 

[griff321]

didn't some of you Viking fans want clausen

So being a FSU fan what is your opinion of him?

 

[Johnny Rock]

Spielman has a pretty good track record. Let's get real. Their professional football staff, scouts and coaching staff probably know more than a bunch of football rubes. Calling for his head is beyond ridiculous at this point

Different regime, but remember when the Vikings let their pick expire in 2003, and people were pissed that they passed on their pick at #7 and waited until #9 to choose Kevin Williams? Although it was a move by the cheap McCombs to save money, it worked out

It takes a trade partner in order to trade back. But even if you do trade back, if you miss on your guy, then supposed value doesn't matter. I'm willing to learn more about the guy and start getting excited about the QB position for the Vikings again.

Edited to clean up

 

[Zeff]

I think he could have a Neil O'Donnellish career.

I DON'T think the quality of his career will bear a meaningful mathematical relationship to the number of people panning his selection.

 

[GridironMenace]

The same Viking fans were VERY upset that they didn't take Jimmy Clausen in the first last year.I like the pick. I have a feeling the Dolphins and Redskins both wanted him at 15/16 so they couldn't trade down too far if they really wanted him.

1) Certainly not me.2) It's all about value. Take Quinn and then take Mallett or Kaepernick in the 2nd. Mallett needs a little guidance but he's the most talented QB in the draft. Plus it is very rare that a young, immature NFL player doesn't need guidance. That's par for the course in the NFL. If Mallett is available when the Vikings pick again, it will look even worse than it does now.Let's put it this way. If this was a fantasy draft and someone reached so absurdly for Ponder (or any player), their selection would be rightfully mocked. Well, I think some of these GM's need to be playing fantasy football a little more.

 

[Jason Wood]

The same Viking fans were VERY upset that they didn't take Jimmy Clausen in the first last year.I like the pick. I have a feeling the Dolphins and Redskins both wanted him at 15/16 so they couldn't trade down too far if they really wanted him.

1) Certainly not me.2) It's all about value. Take Quinn and then take Mallett or Kaepernick in the 2nd. Mallett needs a little guidance but he's the most talented QB in the draft. Plus it is very rare that a young, immature NFL player doesn't need guidance. That's par for the course in the NFL. If Mallett is available when the Vikings pick again, it will look even worse than it does now.Let's put it this way. If this was a fantasy draft and someone reached so absurdly for Ponder (or any player), their selection would be rightfully mocked. Well, I think some of these GM's need to be playing fantasy football a little more.

These QBs are not interchangeable. Maybe the Vikings personnel department felt Ponder was a demonstrably better option for them than either Mallet or Kaepernick. This isn't LEGOs where you just you fill needs by grabbing position guy here, position guy there, and treat it as a job well done. Ryan Kerrigan is not JJ Watt is not Quinn.

 

[hutchins929]

i said in the Locker thread today before the draft that I believe Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett will be the three QBs from this draft who will be bona fide successes. I think you guys will be fine.

Even if this is the case, which is possible. The point is they could have traded back at least 10 spots and still it would have been considered a reach. If they could have gotten a trade they could have picked him much later for a lot cheaper. If they couldn't get a trade then they should have taken a player that is worth that much and then tried to trade back up into the late first or early second and got this guy too. I would have picked Farley or Prince then tried to trade back up later for their QB. If they did that then they would've gone from the laughing stock of the league right now to having a good couple of rounds.

 

[bigmarc27]

i said in the Locker thread today before the draft that I believe Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett will be the three QBs from this draft who will be bona fide successes. I think you guys will be fine.

Even if this is the case, which is possible. The point is they could have traded back at least 10 spots and still it would have been considered a reach. If they could have gotten a trade they could have picked him much later for a lot cheaper. If they couldn't get a trade then they should have taken a player that is worth that much and then tried to trade back up into the late first or early second and got this guy too. I would have picked Farley or Prince then tried to trade back up later for their QB. If they did that then they would've gone from the laughing stock of the league right now to having a good couple of rounds.

But how do you know that? It only takes one team to move up and take Ponder and if you view him as THE QB to get and hate Dalton/Kaipernick/Mallett then why not take him? Obviously they felt strongly enough to invest that kind of $$ in him, so why goof around with 5-10 spots of draft position and risk the entire thing?Too much fantasy football playing around here. Ponder is going to be the QB/face of the franchise - you don't mess around just to add a few picks. You take your guy and then move on. If the coach and the owner are going to stake the next 5 years of their franchise/careers on him, then make the pick.

 

[fsufan]

didn't some of you Viking fans want clausen

So being a FSU fan what is your opinion of him?

went to highit was hard to judge him last year, he hurt his arm in the 3 game against OU and it affected him all yearaccurate, athletic, smart, hard workerhas a good chance of being a good pro. I think the Vikings was the best team for him, a team that has a lot around him.

 

[Cassius]

i said in the Locker thread today before the draft that I believe Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett will be the three QBs from this draft who will be bona fide successes. I think you guys will be fine.

Even if this is the case, which is possible. The point is they could have traded back at least 10 spots and still it would have been considered a reach. If they could have gotten a trade they could have picked him much later for a lot cheaper. If they couldn't get a trade then they should have taken a player that is worth that much and then tried to trade back up into the late first or early second and got this guy too. I would have picked Farley or Prince then tried to trade back up later for their QB. If they did that then they would've gone from the laughing stock of the league right now to having a good couple of rounds.

Teams don't really think like this. If MIN thinks Ponder is a franchise type QB, and they do since they took him at #12, they don't risk losing him to try and move down a few spots and pick up an extra pick. As Jason says, these QB's are not interchangeable even though fans who don't know enough to differentiate between them think they are, and MIN obviously had him rated extremely high, so they took him. In 3-4 years from now, if Ponder sucks, it will be a bad pick. If he's great, nobody will say "yeah, but they could've moved down to 19 and probably gotten him anyway!"

 

[Scooby]

I like the pick better than trading up by adding there 2nd and taking Gabbard.

 

[Wadsworth]

There's a lot to like about Ponder. I would suggest some of the Vikes fans that are ready to jump off the building go do some research on this kid. He's athletic, never been in trouble, loved by his teammates, working on his second Master's degree, a total gym rat, and is a very accurate passer. Without the injury history he might well have graded out as the best QB in this draft and you got him as the fourth QB taken. Seriously, take a deep breathe and give this kid a chance, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[GridironMenace]

i said in the Locker thread today before the draft that I believe Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett will be the three QBs from this draft who will be bona fide successes. I think you guys will be fine.

Even if this is the case, which is possible. The point is they could have traded back at least 10 spots and still it would have been considered a reach. If they could have gotten a trade they could have picked him much later for a lot cheaper. If they couldn't get a trade then they should have taken a player that is worth that much and then tried to trade back up into the late first or early second and got this guy too. I would have picked Farley or Prince then tried to trade back up later for their QB. If they did that then they would've gone from the laughing stock of the league right now to having a good couple of rounds.

Teams don't really think like this. If MIN thinks Ponder is a franchise type QB, and they do since they took him at #12, they don't risk losing him to try and move down a few spots and pick up an extra pick. As Jason says, these QB's are not interchangeable even though fans who don't know enough to differentiate between them think they are, and MIN obviously had him rated extremely high, so they took him. In 3-4 years from now, if Ponder sucks, it will be a bad pick. If he's great, nobody will say "yeah, but they could've moved down to 19 and probably gotten him anyway!"

I don't think you can have it both ways. In the post draft interview Spielman said that they tried to trade down. Why trade down if Minnesota feels so confident in Ponder? The fact that Minnesota tried to get out of the #12 spot, couldn't and then reached on Ponder is a really bad decision. Spielman also said that there was uncertainty with veteran QB FA's because of the lockout. They/he panicked. They reached on a player of need instead of drafting the best available player. That much is clear. They would have been much better off in taking the best available player (Quinn, Prince, Fairley whoever) and then working the phones to try and get back in the draft late in the 1st. This is a type of pick that gets GM's fired and sets back organizations 3-4 years. Maybe this was the plan all along. Set back the organization 3-4 years in hopes of moving the franchise. Los Angeles, watch out! The Vikings are coming!

 

[Dexter Manley]

As a Redskins fan, I loved Minny's pick.

If I were running things in Minny, I would of definitely taken Fairley.

I do think, however, Vikings fans are overreacting to this pick. If Ponder can stay healthy (and that's the biggest red flag on him, imo) he could easily be the best qb in this draft. And I think he's the most pro ready of all the qb's.

 

[griff321]

Just heard Spielman a few minutes ago on KFAN(local sports radio). He was the guy they wanted. They felt that Washington was going to take him at 16. Not hard to fathom not being able to find interest.

 

[Jason Wood]

Just heard Spielman a few minutes ago on KFAN(local sports radio). He was the guy they wanted. They felt that Washington was going to take him at 16. Not hard to fathom not being able to find interest.

Gosselin had the Skins taking Ponder at 10

 

[Funkley]

Did someone really compare the NFL draft to fantasy draft? Lofl.....gotta love rubes.

 

[encaitar]

I'm happy with the pick. I wanted Ponder to be their second round pick, but by all accounts he wasn't make it past 16. I think he's the perfect fit for their offense. In fact, I think if Gabbert was there Ponder still would've been their pick. I think the reason they were trying to trade up was to ensure that Washington didn't take Ponder, not because they wanted Gabbert.

The Vikings have never had a true West Coast QB. They've always had to adjust the offense because their QBs had the mobility but lacked the accuracy(Culpepper, TJack) or had the accuracy but lacked mobility(Favre). Ponder is the most accurate QB in this class and has good mobility. The injuries scare me, but if he stays healthy I'm excited about him as the Vikes QB and think many people in here will be eating some crow in a few years.

 

[snellman]

I'm happy with the pick. I wanted Ponder to be their second round pick, but by all accounts he wasn't make it past 16. I think he's the perfect fit for their offense. In fact, I think if Gabbert was there Ponder still would've been their pick. I think the reason they were trying to trade up was to ensure that Washington didn't take Ponder, not because they wanted Gabbert.The Vikings have never had a true West Coast QB. They've always had to adjust the offense because their QBs had the mobility but lacked the accuracy(Culpepper, TJack) or had the accuracy but lacked mobility(Favre). Ponder is the most accurate QB in this class and has good mobility. The injuries scare me, but if he stays healthy I'm excited about him as the Vikes QB and think many people in here will be eating some crow in a few years.

I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world, he would have been their 2nd round pick but the way things were playing out, it didn't look like that would happen. I don't care if they panicked and took him early, he was the QB I wanted on their roster when the draft was over and I think he is a very good fit for this team.

 

[Frostillicus]

You guys are freakin' hilarious.

 

[Frostillicus]

He was the senior bowl MVP, showing how good he can be when healthy. He's smart and can read a defense. I don't think it's a stretch to say he could be the next Peyton Manning.

 

[encaitar]

I like him even more after hearing Trent Dilfer rip him.

 

[Jason Wood]

I like him even more after hearing Trent Dilfer rip him.

My thoughts EXACTLY. Hearing Dilfer today made me love Ponder, and hate Dalton. Dilfer actually said it was a "travesty" that Dalton didn't go in the 1st round.

 

[Sweet Love]

He was the senior bowl MVP, showing how good he can be when healthy. He's smart and can read a defense. I don't think it's a stretch to say he could be the next Peyton Manning.

Manning will go down as a top 5 QB of all-time. I think this is a poor comparison.

 

[Funkley]

He was the senior bowl MVP, showing how good he can be when healthy. He's smart and can read a defense. I don't think it's a stretch to say he could be the next Peyton Manning.

Manning will go down as a top 5 QB of all-time. I think this is a poor comparison.

Yeah, I'm slowly feeling much better about Ponder so let's not move too fast yet.

 

[Ilov80s]

As a Redskins fan, I loved Minny's pick. If I were running things in Minny, I would of definitely taken Fairley.I do think, however, Vikings fans are overreacting to this pick. If Ponder can stay healthy (and that's the biggest red flag on him, imo) he could easily be the best qb in this draft. And I think he's the most pro ready of all the qb's.

Especially considering Pat Williams is likely gone and the NFL has just gotten permission from the courts to suspend both Williams for violating the league's drug policy. They needed a DT! Look at the QBs taken in the past few years in the 10-20 range: Big Ben @11, Cutler @11, Flacco @18, Freeman @17. Ponder does not have the physical tools that any of the aforementioned players have. Ponder does not have the size or arm strength that those QBs had. Does anyone here think Ponder is really anywhere close to those prospects?Oh yeah, Vikes: Thanks for letting the Lions have Fairley. It was even dumber than when you traded with us last year to get Best.

 

[THE SNOWMAN]

He was the senior bowl MVP, showing how good he can be when healthy. He's smart and can read a defense. I don't think it's a stretch to say he could be the next Peyton Manning.

Whoa whoa whoa, stop posting things like this ... people want to be swinging their pitchforks, be mindful!

 

[datonn]

I'm warming to Ponder, but when they announced the TE Rudolph selection, it was all "woo hoos!" and fist-pumping here. We needed help at TE with Shiancoe 30 and in the final year of his deal, and two other TEs in the final year of their deals as well. Granted, we need DT, OT, LB, DB help too (probably more, for 2011)...but Rudolph is a very nice value at 43, and there's still free agency to come as well. What's to say we can't get some O-Line, LB and S help in free agency?! Draft talent...then spend some of Zigi's coin in free agency.

 

[Funkley]

It's reasonable to debate Ponder vs Fairley/ Prince/Quinn but to say that you should pass on a franchise qb because of a 4 game suspension is absurd. If you think Ponder can start for years you take him. And more than 1 analyst has said his arm strength is fine post injury. I'm skeptical but we'll see.

 

[fsufan]

I don't think it's a stretch to say he could be the next Peyton Manning.

 

[Heatman]

I'm warming to Ponder, but when they announced the TE Rudolph selection, it was all "woo hoos!" and fist-pumping here. We needed help at TE with Shiancoe 30 and in the final year of his deal, and two other TEs in the final year of their deals as well. Granted, we need DT, OT, LB, DB help too (probably more, for 2011)...but Rudolph is a very nice value at 43, and there's still free agency to come as well. What's to say we can't get some O-Line, LB and S help in free agency?! Draft talent...then spend some of Zigi's coin in free agency.

I think Ponder was a bit of a reach but I like him and think he has as much of a chance to become a legit starter as any other QB in this class, and more so than Newton who went #1. Fairley would have been the guy I would have wanted. LOVE the Rudolph pick!

 

[renesauz]

If you think a guys a franchise QB, and you NEED a franchise QB, you take him, PERIOD. You don't jack around trading back, you don NOT try to get cute. More than a few people saw Ponder as a franchise QB, so why would Vikes fans be foaming?

 

[The Gatekeeper]

I think Ponder went a little early but he was rising on the draft boards and he had done really well in workouts with a couple teams and the Vikings knew that he wasnt going to be there past #16 as the Redskins loved him. So they tried to move back a couple spots but could not get a taker so they picked their guy. Yes I would have rather had Fairley but I think Ponder could do really well. I think the Vikings have done a great job getting Rudolph, Ballard, and Burton all later than where they were predicted to go and in the cases of Ballard and Burton a full 2 rounds after they were projected so if you are going to blast him for taking a guy a little early then you got to give him credit for getting great value on his next couple of picks.

 

[Warpig]

Ponder is probably the most accurate QB in this draft and with the type of offense I suspect they're going to run will be a good fit. Bump Harvin.

Everything I've heard said he's probably the most NFL ready QB in this class. And he's very accurate. Not much of a deep arm, but he can work the medium passes underneath to Harvin and let him do his thing.He is instantly better than anything else they have. With no FA, this was the safe pick. At least now you have A qb to roll out on game day. Not like you need a superstar at QB with AP and that defense.

 

[bakes]

Ponder is probably the most accurate QB in this draft and with the type of offense I suspect they're going to run will be a good fit. Bump Harvin.

Everything I've heard said he's probably the most NFL ready QB in this class. And he's very accurate. Not much of a deep arm, but he can work the medium passes underneath to Harvin and let him do his thing.He is instantly better than anything else they have. With no FA, this was the safe pick. At least now you have A qb to roll out on game day. Not like you need a superstar at QB with AP and that defense.

Agreed. And given the weapons he has to work with (Harvin, Rice, Shiancoe, and now Rudolph who was a stout pick) accuracy is going to be a key to running that offense, much more so than a cannon arm. They don't need a guy who can throw the ball 70 yards so that it can bounce off of Berrian's hands.

 

[Biabreakable]

As has already been mentioned the Vikings could not have traded down without risking losing Ponder in the process. I also think that when they were talking to Dallas about moving up to pick 9 it is because they were concerned the Redskins would take him at 10.

Although I do not pay much attention to college football Ponder is a player who got my attention with his play anyways. For what the Vikings are looking for I think Ponder was the best choice out of all the QBs available this year.

Based off Speilmans presser http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Spielman-Presser---428/26069ed7-bc9a-4600-8db1-86b7f152da02 it sounds like they were mostly looking at Ponder and Gabbert. And it would have been a final toss up for them at pick 9 deciding which one they would take if they had moved up to pick 9.

Also keep in mind OC Musgraves input on the decision. Ponder is the QB he wanted to work with. They believe he can be the man for the Vikings.

When asked if this pick was a reach for them Spielman without hesitation says NO.

Anyhow just watch the presser.

From a FF standpoint Ponder+Rudolph > Gabbert no matter how you slice it so I don't see why Viking fans should be unhappy about it.

As far as Fairley goes I don't think he would help the Vikings as much as Ponder will. I think the Vikings have passed on some good DT opportunities in the past 2 drafts, oh well. But if we took Fairley over Ponder that would have been a reach because we hadn't addressed it previously. The Vikings have gotten decent play from Guion and Kennedy. It looks like our 4th round pick can play DT or DE also.

 

[lazyike]

Ponder is probably the most accurate QB in this draft and with the type of offense I suspect they're going to run will be a good fit. Bump Harvin.

At the outset I was upset with this pick until I heard all the positive things about Ponder. (I actually was more upset they took TE Rudolph instead of DT Marvin Austin in round 2.)#1, Intelligent-I'm tired of these atheletic QBs that are drafted who aren't smart enough to be able to read a defense. Unlike the later round QBs because of the lock out reinstatement, Ponder will have the Vikings playbook. Unbelievable this kid got his MBA and Masters in 4 years of college while playing football. #2. Many are saying he is the most NFL ready QB and ran a NFL style offense in FSU#3. Accuracy- He's much more accurate than Locker who had poor numbers in college and they will only be worse in the NFL. Locker has been told he needs to work on his accuracy. I say you either got it at this point or you either have it or you don't. I'm glad Locker wasn't available#4 The Vikings also don't need the headache of Mallett's off field issues

 

[Your Mom]

I like him even more after hearing Trent Dilfer rip him.

My thoughts EXACTLY. Hearing Dilfer today made me love Ponder, and hate Dalton. Dilfer actually said it was a "travesty" that Dalton didn't go in the 1st round.

Dilfer is so obnoxious and over the top with these QBs. Hard to listen to. Didn't hear him talk about ponder, but heard the Dalton love. Also heard him rave about Kapernick.

 

[Raider Nation]

 

[Mr. Retukes]

The facts are that there are no "sure-fire" qb's in this year's draft. It's rare that a QB gets selected that everyone is on board with. I'm sure there are some nervous Panther fans this morning, and I KNOW there is nervousness around the Titans.But that being said, this is what the scouts get paid for. QB is the most important position by far, and you can't compete unless you have one. Give the guy a chance. Every year some bust and some don't, and the scouting reports often are really wrong once they get schooled and get into a system. There's really nothing a fan can do here except wait and hope. It's tough to get a great QB in the NFL. Gotta keep swinging for the fences.

And your 2011 award for Most Cliches In A Single Post goes to....

 

[Premier]

Oh #### I haven't laughed that hard in a while. I love the VoiceOver of the announcer at the end saying "this isn't Detroit" as the guy in the Foreman jersey destroys his house. God the Internet rules.

 

[griff321]

That's just dirty.Tuck Rule.

 

[Sabertooth]

To be quite honest, nobody know if Ponder would have slid much later. The Vikings had him rated highly and selected him. I remember think Ted Thompson was foolish for trading back with New England to select Greg Jennings when a stud like Chad Jackson was sitting right there for the taking.

Give it time, we simply do not know what is going to happen with this situation.

 

[eakfootball]

I like the pick

 

[bakes]

Foreshadowing at the 45 second mark?

 

[Bob Magaw]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/04/trent-dilfer-choosing-sam-bradford-would-be-catastrophic-mistake-for-rams/1

Apr 07, 2010

Trent Dilfer: Choosing Sam Bradford would be 'catastrophic' mistake for Rams

12:11 PMPrint Share

By Sean Leahy, USA TODAY

"Rams GM Billy Devaney said Tuesday that choosing Sam Bradford with the first overall pick is no sure thing.

Former NFL QB Trent Dilfer will applaud that remark.

Dilfer told ESPN Radio in St. Louis that selecting Bradford would be a "catastrophic" mistake for the Rams and said that the Oklahoma product isn't even the best QB available in the draft.

"In my opinion, he's not even close to the best player in this draft," Dilfer said.

Dilfer, now an ESPN analyst, argued that Bradford hasn't faced enough aggressive defenses in college. Dilfer said Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen is the most pro-ready and that Texas' Colt McCoy may end up being the best pro in the long run."

to elaborate on what others have said about those citing dilfer as a draftnik QB guru as "ammo" or to bulwark the defense of why ponder shouldn't have been taken. bradford took the worst team in the league to within a game of a .500 record (after being a combined 6-42 in previous three seasons) and a playoff berth... with a rag tag collection of WRs (after injuries to avery, clayton, etc.)...

to assume that MIN could have traded down and been guaranteed of getting ponder is very dubious and suspect...

i saw some film where ponder didn't flash a lot of arm strength, but at workouts after the season he was driving the ball with more velocity, so perhaps he was hindered by the injury, and some highlights aren't representative of ponder at his best...

mayock was very impressed with his football smarts and game knowledge... in terms of anticipation and timing, on where and when to deliver the ball out of a WRs breaks... and that is pretty much instinctive... maybe it can be coached up to a degree, but essentially you have it or you don't...

in an increasingly complex game, QB has always been the most complex position (they have to know everybody's assignments on the field, defense included, obviously)... other players just have to respond to play call changes, QBs have to identify and recognize when changes need to be made... ponder is demonstrably extremely bright and hard working...

so much of a QBs job is defined above the shoulders... with so many high profile QBs failing over the years due to lack of smarts, work ethic and leadership, ponder's stellar constellation of intangibles bodes very well...

also, having a rocket arm is highly overrated (case in point - the raiders collossal bust from few years ago, now out of the league and probably won't even get a sniff at a try out)... accuracy is hugely important, and also noted by others here, he may have been the most accurate QB in the draft... what kind of damage would harvin be capable of, if ponder can consistently deliver the ball in stride?

another factor positioning him for success... it is a cliche that a young QB is helped by a strong running game (see bradford... and interestingly, most of the top QBs picked in this draft went to good situations in this respect - TEN, JAX, potentially CAR & CIN)... and peterson is one of, if not the best in football... the vikings also have the potential for a strong defense, which helps a lot, too.