Robert Griffin III (1 Viewer)

[DropKick]

I really like this kid.

blessed by Tebow himself... what more can one ask for?Seriously, as has been mentioned, spread offense is not as big a deal as traditionally has been. Teams WILL adjust their scheme for a player of Griffin's qualities.

Good lord, I can't wait to watch this kid in the pro's.

For some reason... I feel like people (some) see a black QB, and assume all run, no brains. Really don't mean to bring race into it, but I think it's true.

Master's or not, people don't associate black with "brilliant", far too often.

That is a very ignorant statement to make.

It's not at all ignorant... It's fact.Especially down in my neighbour to the south... but even up here in the north.

Denying that there is an immense stigma that blacks are less "intelligent" is, in itself, ignorant.

Ignorant is not knowing how to spell "neighbor".

I know... you Americans... it's one thing after another. Is it really that difficult to add one extra letter?

Why would I want to add a letter in order to spell a word incorrectly?

Because both spellings are correct; "bour" is used by the English (the U.K.); "bor" is the American slant.Anyway Hoss, I think Riz is right in that there is a stereotype about black QBs. He isn't saying he agrees with it or that it's true... just that it exists. I think it still does but it is eroding.

 

[duaneok66]

Kiper: 'No chance' Griffin III drafted ahead of LuckComments By Nate Davis, USA TODAY Baylor QB Robert Griffin III and Stanford QB Andrew Luck may have gone 1-2, respectively, when it came to Heisman Trophy voting in 2011, but don't expect that sequence to hold in the 2012 NFL draft."No chance," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper said on SportsCenter on Thursday morning, reiterating that Luck is the most highly regarded prospect since fellow Cardinal QB John Elway in 1983.Kiper also suggested Luck's supporting cast at Stanford wasn't as strong as the other offensive players surrounding Griffin at Baylor.As for Griffin's NFL outlook?"No question his stock is rising," said Kiper. "His bigger question is beating out (USC's) Matt Barkley."If you're looking for a battle for quarterback (in the draft), forget Andrew Luck ... the battle's Barkley and RGIII."ESPN's Todd McShay called Luck a "once-in-a-decade type prospect" adding it's "Luck No. 1 and everybody else" while guessing Grifffin could go in the top 10-15 selections next spring.looks like RGIII is at best the 3rd best prospect

I thought Barkley was staying.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I thought Barkley was staying.

old quote obviously

 

[rizzler]

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that the Colts have done enough film study on Baylor QB Robert Griffin to select him "without regret" if they beat the Jaguars on Sunday and land the draft's No. 2 pick.

The Rams would draft No. 1 overall in the above scenario. The Colts have reportedly spent "significant time" evaluating Griffin both on tape and in person to feel good about him as a franchise signal caller if they miss out on Andrew Luck. The NFL is as high, or higher, on Griffin as we suspected. He's not going to make it past the No. 3 overall pick in April's draft.

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If this guy gets a year or two to learn, he's gonna be extremely good pretty quick. Cannon arm, one of the fastest QBs to ever come out, highly intelligent, accurate and makes all the touch throws. He needs some work on his reads but you can't quantify what he's going to be able to do outside the pocket. I've watched a majority of his college games and I can say with confidence he has grown with every game he has played, a great sign for a potential NFL star. I don't think there is any way this guy misses.

 

[cstu]

If this guy gets a year or two to learn, he's gonna be extremely good pretty quick. Cannon arm, one of the fastest QBs to ever come out, highly intelligent, accurate and makes all the touch throws. He needs some work on his reads but you can't quantify what he's going to be able to do outside the pocket. I've watched a majority of his college games and I can say with confidence he has grown with every game he has played, a great sign for a potential NFL star. I don't think there is any way this guy misses.

Steve Young redux (and yes, I compared him to a non-black QB).

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If this guy gets a year or two to learn, he's gonna be extremely good pretty quick. Cannon arm, one of the fastest QBs to ever come out, highly intelligent, accurate and makes all the touch throws. He needs some work on his reads but you can't quantify what he's going to be able to do outside the pocket. I've watched a majority of his college games and I can say with confidence he has grown with every game he has played, a great sign for a potential NFL star. I don't think there is any way this guy misses.

Steve Young redux (and yes, I compared him to a non-black QB).

Actually haven't heard that before (I don't follow NFL scouting at all but watch a #### ton of CFB), but I think that is a pretty good comparison.

 

[cstu]

If this guy gets a year or two to learn, he's gonna be extremely good pretty quick. Cannon arm, one of the fastest QBs to ever come out, highly intelligent, accurate and makes all the touch throws. He needs some work on his reads but you can't quantify what he's going to be able to do outside the pocket. I've watched a majority of his college games and I can say with confidence he has grown with every game he has played, a great sign for a potential NFL star. I don't think there is any way this guy misses.

Steve Young redux (and yes, I compared him to a non-black QB).

Actually haven't heard that before (I don't follow NFL scouting at all but watch a #### ton of CFB), but I think that is a pretty good comparison.

I haven't seen the comparison before but there's not a lot of good running QB's with accuracy.

 

[duaneok66]

If this guy gets a year or two to learn, he's gonna be extremely good pretty quick. Cannon arm, one of the fastest QBs to ever come out, highly intelligent, accurate and makes all the touch throws. He needs some work on his reads but you can't quantify what he's going to be able to do outside the pocket. I've watched a majority of his college games and I can say with confidence he has grown with every game he has played, a great sign for a potential NFL star. I don't think there is any way this guy misses.

Steve Young redux (and yes, I compared him to a non-black QB).

great comparison.

 

[rizzler]

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "a handful of NFL scouts" prefer Baylor QB Robert Griffin III to presumptive No. 1 overall pick Stanford QB Andrew Luck.ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper recently insisted there was no chance Griffin could overtake Luck as this year's most coveted prospect, but it's clear there's going to be huge interest in the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner. It is more likely than not someone acquires the Rams' No. 2 overall pick to select RGIII.

Luck will go #1, but just shows you, not everyone buys the hype.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just did a bunch of work on RGIII and think he's very overrated. The offensive scheme allows for a very high completion percentage(wr screens, hitches, etc), I don't like his arm angle, he misses too many open receivers, and has poor footwork.

 

[rizzler]

I just did a bunch of work on RGIII and think he's very overrated. The offensive scheme allows for a very high completion percentage(wr screens, hitches, etc), I don't like his arm angle, he misses too many open receivers, and has poor footwork.

Wow.I agree on the footwork, it's not the best. As for accuracy, I completely disagree. especially when it comes to the deepball. He's on of the most accurate downfield throwers Ive seen come out of college in ages. On the short routes, he does have a tendency to throw behind the receiver at times, but he is still quite accurate (as seen vs Oklahoma), and with time and coaching should be able to correct those things quickly.If you're asking me which of Luck or Griffin is more overrated, it's Luck by a country mile. Both are very, very good. Luck is likely more NFL ready ATM. But he's also being touted as the next coming of Christ... which usually ends is disaster.I may overrate Griffin, in peoples estimation. But Ive watched A LOT of him and love what I see from this kid.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I just did a bunch of work on RGIII and think he's very overrated. The offensive scheme allows for a very high completion percentage(wr screens, hitches, etc), I don't like his arm angle, he misses too many open receivers, and has poor footwork.

Wow.I agree on the footwork, it's not the best. As for accuracy, I completely disagree. especially when it comes to the deepball. He's on of the most accurate downfield throwers Ive seen come out of college in ages. On the short routes, he does have a tendency to throw behind the receiver at times, but he is still quite accurate (as seen vs Oklahoma), and with time and coaching should be able to correct those things quickly.If you're asking me which of Luck or Griffin is more overrated, it's Luck by a country mile. Both are very, very good. Luck is likely more NFL ready ATM. But he's also being touted as the next coming of Christ... which usually ends is disaster.I may overrate Griffin, in peoples estimation. But Ive watched A LOT of him and love what I see from this kid.

Well I guess I should get more into it rather than a 2 line shot than.I think RGIII is more overrated at the moment because many see the success Cam Newton had last year and they combine that with RGIII.-Very strong arm and quick release-lower throwing motion + being 6'2(if that) = lots of batted down passes-Has amazing touch on his deep passes, which I agree is rare, however he overthrows on many of open receivers.-While being a great athlete, he is careless with the ball when scrambling and will make quick decisions that lead to throwing into coverages.-Can not only scramble but have big gains using his legs-Played in a gimmicky offense that had many WR screens, hitches. He playactioned/pump faked at least on 50% of his passes and I watched 5 games this past season. That isn't something he will do at the next level.-His feet are terrible. Stand flat footed in the pocket and throws...this lead to his inaccurate passes both short and long.-All of the skills are their to be a good FF QB(worse NFL QB IMO) but he is too raw at this time. He needs lots of work. I think Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams made him look better than he is.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I don't understand how ANYONE can confidently claim that ANY prospect is too raw, after what Cam Newton did. I understand that he was the exception, but he also is an example of writing the beginning of a prospects career off as merely "developmental". Not every prospect needs the Aaron Rodgers treatment, and I think its becoming more apparent every year that its nearly impossible to tell who does, and who doesn't, coming out as prospects. There's no way to know until you get them in camp. And it doesn't only apply to the QB position.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I don't understand how ANYONE can confidently claim that ANY prospect is too raw, after what Cam Newton did. I understand that he was the exception, but he also is an example of writing the beginning of a prospects career off as merely "developmental". Not every prospect needs the Aaron Rodgers treatment, and I think its becoming more apparent every year that its nearly impossible to tell who does, and who doesn't, coming out as prospects. There's no way to know until you get them in camp. And it doesn't only apply to the QB position.

It's simple, if you break down what he does in terms of skills and not generalities...then you see he needs a lot of work. Cam Newton needs a lot of work as well. However Fantasy Football owners only see his points...Cam Newton threw 21 TDs and 17 INTs along with at least 2 fumbles...that isn't outstanding or a finished product. They instead see the 14 rushing TDs.RGIII plays in a non pro style spread offense...Brady/Rodgers/Brees play in a different kind of spread, which affects reads and concepts. RGIII was rarely under center as well, which will be an adjustment. RGIII is 6-2(may be shorter) 220, while Cam Newton is 6-5 250...big difference in seeing the field. Add to that his non-over the top throwing motion and I see a lot of struggling.

 

[duaneok66]

I have only seen the bowl game from RG3. From those that have seen him more - don't you think that he's at least FF viable?? Tebow offered little as a passer and was a top 12 FF QB - Can't RG3 do at least that?/

 

[placebo]

It's simple, if you break down what he does in terms of skills and not generalities...then you see he needs a lot of work. Cam Newton needs a lot of work as well. However Fantasy Football owners only see his points...Cam Newton threw 21 TDs and 17 INTs along with at least 2 fumbles...that isn't outstanding or a finished product. They instead see the 14 rushing TDs.RGIII plays in a non pro style spread offense...Brady/Rodgers/Brees play in a different kind of spread, which affects reads and concepts. RGIII was rarely under center as well, which will be an adjustment. RGIII is 6-2(may be shorter) 220, while Cam Newton is 6-5 250...big difference in seeing the field. Add to that his non-over the top throwing motion and I see a lot of struggling.

I don't know if you've heard this, but the NFL actually awards the same 6 points for rushing TD's as they do for passing TD's. Pretty absurd to pretend QB rushing TD's are only useful for fantasy purposes. Cam does need to work on limiting TO's but keep in mind Eli Manning had more TO's this season (20), and less total TD's. Not saying he's better than Eli but compares favorably so far. As far as fantasy one thing to learn from Cam is when drafting a backup QB in late roudns go for upside and the unknown factor. I'm definitely going to be targeting Locker in drafts this year, and Griffin depending on where he lands. Cleveland would deter me quite a bit as there's no weapons and it's a rough division to be in for the passing game. Washington or Miami I'd definitely take a shot.

 

[cstu]

I have only seen the bowl game from RG3. From those that have seen him more - don't you think that he's at least FF viable?? Tebow offered little as a passer and was a top 12 FF QB - Can't RG3 do at least that?/

Yes, he can be an adequate fantasy starter but is that what you want out of a top 5 rookie fantasy pick?

 

[rizzler]

I have only seen the bowl game from RG3. From those that have seen him more - don't you think that he's at least FF viable?? Tebow offered little as a passer and was a top 12 FF QB - Can't RG3 do at least that?/

Yes, he can be an adequate fantasy starter but is that what you want out of a top 5 rookie fantasy pick?

we're talking about a guy who PROFESSIONAL NFL SCOUTS have listed higher than Luck.adequate fantasy starter?he could be a zero, but he could also be world class

 

[EBF]

Nothing against Griffin, but he's not Cam Newton. Using Cam's success to predict performance of future rookie QBs would be like using Randy Moss's rookie season to predict performance of future rookie WRs. Cam is an exceptional talent and should be viewed accordingly.

 

[duaneok66]

I have only seen the bowl game from RG3. From those that have seen him more - don't you think that he's at least FF viable?? Tebow offered little as a passer and was a top 12 FF QB - Can't RG3 do at least that?/

Yes, he can be an adequate fantasy starter but is that what you want out of a top 5 rookie fantasy pick?

point taken.

 

[duaneok66]

I have only seen the bowl game from RG3. From those that have seen him more - don't you think that he's at least FF viable?? Tebow offered little as a passer and was a top 12 FF QB - Can't RG3 do at least that?/

Yes, he can be an adequate fantasy starter but is that what you want out of a top 5 rookie fantasy pick?

we're talking about a guy who PROFESSIONAL NFL SCOUTS have listed higher than Luck.adequate fantasy starter?he could be a zero, but he could also be world class

the last two posts are examples of why the NFL offseason is fantastic.

 

[placebo]

Nothing against Griffin, but he's not Cam Newton. Using Cam's success to predict performance of future rookie QBs would be like using Randy Moss's rookie season to predict performance of future rookie WRs. Cam is an exceptional talent and should be viewed accordingly.

Dynasty's a different beast, but in one of my 12 team re-drafts Flacco, Orton, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Cassel, McCoy, & Kolb were taken ahead of Newton. Maybe there's some leagues smarter than mine out there but looking at ADP most leagues were similar. These are guys who are more or less known quantities, with the upside of sneaking into the Top 12 at best. I'm definitely taking a shot on RGIII later in my draft than some replacement level schmoe I can get off the WW. It's low-risk, high-reward. If we're talking 16+ teams though it changes a bit obviously.

 

[pantherclub]

I don't understand how ANYONE can confidently claim that ANY prospect is too raw, after what Cam Newton did. I understand that he was the exception, but he also is an example of writing the beginning of a prospects career off as merely "developmental". Not every prospect needs the Aaron Rodgers treatment, and I think its becoming more apparent every year that its nearly impossible to tell who does, and who doesn't, coming out as prospects. There's no way to know until you get them in camp. And it doesn't only apply to the QB position.

No offense but Cam Newton is a once in a generation type player. Size, speed, arm strength and accuracy. Griffen is not close to Newton its a silly comparison.

 

[jurb26]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.

RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

 

[cstu]

Nothing against Griffin, but he's not Cam Newton. Using Cam's success to predict performance of future rookie QBs would be like using Randy Moss's rookie season to predict performance of future rookie WRs. Cam is an exceptional talent and should be viewed accordingly.

This is exactly what I'm saying. I'm a big fan of RG3 yet it doesn't seem like it since the hype is so out of control. From a fantasy perspective, taking a QB early normally isn't worth it because of the bust rate and the normally long development time to get to be a top 5 fantasy QB.

 

[pghrob]

The physical stature of RGIII does not dampen the outlook for him one bit when I consider he is on par if not a tad taller than Drew Brees.

 

[cstu]

The physical stature of RGIII does not dampen the outlook for him one bit when I consider he is on par if not a tad taller than Drew Brees.

I agree, but it took Brees four years to 'get it'.

 

[pghrob]

And dynasty drafters likely did not invest any level of high rookie draft pick on Brees when he came out of Purdue as the first 2nd round pick by the Chargers in 2001.

But if I thought RGIII needed 4 years to turn into the FF stat machine that Brees is, I would do it in a minute. And the 1.04 -1.06 rookie pick needed to do that would be a small investment if I had the depth on the roster to compete for a championship while waiting for him to mature.

It really is a crap shoot of sorts for many of these picks outside the top-3-4.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses. RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I agree with you, but Newton is exactly why RG3 is getting so much hype. I'm not saying that's right or that makes sense. But that's why. The NFL is a copycat league, and the fantasy sheep follow right behind too. Everyone (me included, and I even got Newton in the mid-second in one league) completely whiffed on Newton. So now they see another promising QB who can run and it's obvious everyone is going to equate RG3 with Newton. We do it all the time with other players at other positions too. Everyone wants the next big thing and wants to compare every prospect with a current star. I like RG3, but he will be overdrafted in every single fantasy league this year precisely because of Newton.

 

[pghrob]

I agree with you, but Newton is exactly why RG3 is getting so much hype. I'm not saying that's right or that makes sense. But that's why. The NFL is a copycat league, and the fantasy sheep follow right behind too. Everyone (me included, and I even got Newton in the mid-second in one league) completely whiffed on Newton. So now they see another promising QB who can run and it's obvious everyone is going to equate RG3 with Newton. We do it all the time with other players at other positions too. Everyone wants the next big thing and wants to compare every prospect with a current star. I like RG3, but he will be overdrafted in every single fantasy league this year precisely because of Newton.

I selected Blaine Gabbert ahead of Newton. In fact, the rookie qb's went like this in my dynasty league rookie daft last year: Dalton 1.7, Ponder 1.10, Gabbert 1.12, Newton 2.3. Many people do not want to repeat their 2011 mistake and pass on the next supposed rookie phenom.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

It's simple, if you break down what he does in terms of skills and not generalities...then you see he needs a lot of work. Cam Newton needs a lot of work as well. However Fantasy Football owners only see his points...Cam Newton threw 21 TDs and 17 INTs along with at least 2 fumbles...that isn't outstanding or a finished product. They instead see the 14 rushing TDs.RGIII plays in a non pro style spread offense...Brady/Rodgers/Brees play in a different kind of spread, which affects reads and concepts. RGIII was rarely under center as well, which will be an adjustment. RGIII is 6-2(may be shorter) 220, while Cam Newton is 6-5 250...big difference in seeing the field. Add to that his non-over the top throwing motion and I see a lot of struggling.

I don't know if you've heard this, but the NFL actually awards the same 6 points for rushing TD's as they do for passing TD's. Pretty absurd to pretend QB rushing TD's are only useful for fantasy purposes. Cam does need to work on limiting TO's but keep in mind Eli Manning had more TO's this season (20), and less total TD's. Not saying he's better than Eli but compares favorably so far.

Was your first statement necessary? My point was outside of Cam Newton's rushing, he wasn't as impressive and needs work...just like RGIII.Also RGIII is much shorter and smaller framed than Cam, Eli, and pretty much any other legit QB in the NFL outside of Drew Brees.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.



RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I'd love to know why you believe this. I've watched 5 games, not highlights and didn't see an elite QB prospect.

 

[Sabertooth]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.



RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I'd love to know why you believe this. I've watched 5 games, not highlights and didn't see an elite QB prospect.

He was the black guy. Watch them again.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.



RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I'd love to know why you believe this. I've watched 5 games, not highlights and didn't see an elite QB prospect.

He was the black guy. Watch them again.

Elite is a very limited category...I put RGIII as above average to good QB prospect. This time of year people get rookie fever...RGIII isn't THAT good.

 

[Sabertooth]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.



RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I'd love to know why you believe this. I've watched 5 games, not highlights and didn't see an elite QB prospect.

He was the black guy. Watch them again.

Elite is a very limited category...I put RGIII as above average to good QB prospect. This time of year people get rookie fever...RGIII isn't THAT good.

Saying someone isn't elite isn't really going out on a limb.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Why do so many people feel the need to continually bring up Cam Newton in these RG3 threads? These are totally different prospects. RG3 is much more akin to Sam Bradford than he is Cam Newton. Personally, I think RG3 is clearly a better prospect than Bradford. On top of that, there is a great deal of revisionist vision going on anytime somebody brings up Newton and it's tiresome to read. Many of the same people who are now saying Newton is a whole different animal and super-elite can only say that because they have seen is rookie body of work. Frankly, I don't recall hardly ANYONE who didn't think Car was a bit foolish last year in taking Newton #1 overall. Sure, there were a few who supported him and that decision, but there certainly were not many. Newton's success this year was shocking. Not just because of how absurd it was, but also because so many felt this time last year that he wasn't really elite and/or worth the #1 overall pick.

RG3 will probably GRADE out about as high as Newton did last year as a prospect. That isn't to say they should still be viewed as such now. Clearly, Newton has proven to be much better than anyone (or most anyone) would have ever imagined and he proved that on an NFL field. Luck will likely grade out higher. Again, Luck's higher draft grade doesn't mean we should ever expect that he produces like Newton. We will be lucky if he produces a career like Joe Flaco in many senses.



RG3 is an elite QB prospect but that alone does not guarantee NFL success. His skill set is different than Newton's. People questioned Newton's ability to learn and his character this time last year, never his physical tools. These are things I've never seen questioned about RG3. Honestly, the only similarities between these guys is that they come from non-prostyle offensive scheme (though theirs were totally different so it isn't much of a similarity), they are athletic and they are black. It pretty much ends there. So can we please stop bringing Newton up in these threads?

I'd love to know why you believe this. I've watched 5 games, not highlights and didn't see an elite QB prospect.

He was the black guy. Watch them again.

Elite is a very limited category...I put RGIII as above average to good QB prospect. This time of year people get rookie fever...RGIII isn't THAT good.

Saying someone isn't elite isn't really going out on a limb.

This is my quick breakdown version of him. Argue what you want, but bring something to the table.

-Very strong arm and quick release

-lower throwing motion + being 6'2(if that) = lots of batted down passes

-Has amazing touch on his deep passes, which I agree is rare, however he overthrows on many of open receivers.

-While being a great athlete, he is careless with the ball when scrambling and will make quick decisions that lead to throwing into coverages.

-Can not only scramble but have big gains using his legs

-Played in a gimmicky offense that had many WR screens, hitches. He playactioned/pump faked at least on 50% of his passes and I watched 5 games this past season. That isn't something he will do at the next level.

-His feet are terrible. Stand flat footed in the pocket and throws...this lead to his inaccurate passes both short and long.

-All of the skills are their to be a good FF QB(worse NFL QB IMO) but he is too raw at this time. He needs lots of work. I think Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams made him look better than he is.

 

[jurb26]

This is my quick breakdown version of him. Argue what you want, but bring something to the table.-Very strong arm and quick release-lower throwing motion + being 6'2(if that) = lots of batted down passes-Has amazing touch on his deep passes, which I agree is rare, however he overthrows on many of open receivers.-While being a great athlete, he is careless with the ball when scrambling and will make quick decisions that lead to throwing into coverages.-Can not only scramble but have big gains using his legs-Played in a gimmicky offense that had many WR screens, hitches. He playactioned/pump faked at least on 50% of his passes and I watched 5 games this past season. That isn't something he will do at the next level.-His feet are terrible. Stand flat footed in the pocket and throws...this lead to his inaccurate passes both short and long.-All of the skills are their to be a good FF QB(worse NFL QB IMO) but he is too raw at this time. He needs lots of work. I think Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams made him look better than he is.

Having your passes batter down at the LOS is a very overrated thing in the NFL. Especially if you are 6'2". If he is significantly shorter than that (6' or lower) then I will agree with you that this is an issue moving forward. What is most critical is getting rid of the ball quickly, which as you sighted he is very good at. He releases the ball at multiple angles but does so with great accuracy no matter what. He will be coached to more consistently deliver the ball higher and tighten his elbow but I don't see any major changes being needed. More of a fine tuning. This isn't Tim Tebow we are talking about.I don't disagree that RG3 at times made poor decisions in college. Guess what, all players do. Look at Luck vs. Oregon. He was awful in that game and made several awful reads and decisions. Pressure does that to even the best QBs in the NFL today, Brady, Brees, ect. Every defensive coordinator will tell you the key to beating any very good QB is to get pressure on them. At the end of the day, you don't put up stats like RG3 did if you are continually making poor decisions so this seems to be a poor criticism to me.His offense is of concern to me, like all of these gimmicky offenses are in college. What I like about RG3 more than any other QB prospect we've seen come from this type of abnormal offense is that he seems more "coachable" and able to learn than most. He improved every year he played as Baylor, much like Stafford did at Georgia. He is clearly a guy who "gets it" IMO. As a carryover from the above point I will talk about his feet. I believe his footwork is a symptom of his college offense. Unfortunately when you play in a spread offense like he did at Baylor you simply are not asked to take traditional, NFL-style, drops and therefore are seldom coached on the proper technique. This doesn't mean he can not do it, it means has hasn't been asked to or taught how. It's a product of his system. With that said, I do not think his footwork is all that poor, at least not when it comes to his actual throwing motion. He leads with the proper foot and rotates his center of gravity very well. All in all even you yourself said he had all the tools to be a very good QB. It seems to me that you are getting caught up a bit in the idea of immediate success. Of course RG3 is going to need to work to become a great NFL QB, everybody does. Immediate success should never be expected of any rookie QB. Sorry I had to rush this as my wife is hounding me to leave.....

 

[pantherclub]

The physical stature of RGIII does not dampen the outlook for him one bit when I consider he is on par if not a tad taller than Drew Brees.

I agree, but it took Brees four years to 'get it'.

And in a basically run and shoot style offense

 

[pantherclub]

I know he is listed at 6'2 but I would bet come combine time he comes in around 6ft. The dude looks small on a college field.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

This is my quick breakdown version of him. Argue what you want, but bring something to the table.

-Very strong arm and quick release

-lower throwing motion + being 6'2(if that) = lots of batted down passes

-Has amazing touch on his deep passes, which I agree is rare, however he overthrows on many of open receivers.

-While being a great athlete, he is careless with the ball when scrambling and will make quick decisions that lead to throwing into coverages.

-Can not only scramble but have big gains using his legs

-Played in a gimmicky offense that had many WR screens, hitches. He playactioned/pump faked at least on 50% of his passes and I watched 5 games this past season. That isn't something he will do at the next level.

-His feet are terrible. Stand flat footed in the pocket and throws...this lead to his inaccurate passes both short and long.

-All of the skills are their to be a good FF QB(worse NFL QB IMO) but he is too raw at this time. He needs lots of work. I think Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams made him look better than he is.

Thanks for having an actual discussion about RGIIIHaving your passes batter down at the LOS is a very overrated thing in the NFL. Especially if you are 6'2". If he is significantly shorter than that (6' or lower) then I will agree with you that this is an issue moving forward. What is most critical is getting rid of the ball quickly, which as you sighted he is very good at. He releases the ball at multiple angles but does so with great accuracy no matter what. He will be coached to more consistently deliver the ball higher and tighten his elbow but I don't see any major changes being needed. More of a fine tuning. This isn't Tim Tebow we are talking about.

I think it's a bigger concern because OL/DL are bigger/quicker than in college. RGIII isn't tall + not an over the top throw = not only more batted down passes, but limits his ability for passing lanes and reading the defense. This could lead to more turnovers at the NFL level.

I don't disagree that RG3 at times made poor decisions in college. Guess what, all players do. Look at Luck vs. Oregon. He was awful in that game and made several awful reads and decisions. Pressure does that to even the best QBs in the NFL today, Brady, Brees, ect. Every defensive coordinator will tell you the key to beating any very good QB is to get pressure on them. At the end of the day, you don't put up stats like RG3 did if you are continually making poor decisions so this seems to be a poor criticism to me.

I agree with you on pressure effects all QBs. However QBs react differently under duress. RGIII plays a fine line when under pressure/scrambling between a Big Ben and other times looking like Rex Grossman. It's just a concern I have of RGII.

His offense is of concern to me, like all of these gimmicky offenses are in college. What I like about RG3 more than any other QB prospect we've seen come from this type of abnormal offense is that he seems more "coachable" and able to learn than most. He improved every year he played as Baylor, much like Stafford did at Georgia. He is clearly a guy who "gets it" IMO.

I guess that's something we don't know for sure. However what's impressive is that he improved despite tearing his ACL in college.

As a carryover from the above point I will talk about his feet. I believe his footwork is a symptom of his college offense. Unfortunately when you play in a spread offense like he did at Baylor you simply are not asked to take traditional, NFL-style, drops and therefore are seldom coached on the proper technique. This doesn't mean he can not do it, it means has hasn't been asked to or taught how. It's a product of his system. With that said, I do not think his footwork is all that poor, at least not when it comes to his actual throwing motion. He leads with the proper foot and rotates his center of gravity very well.

It could be the system, but part of him not having his feet under him makes it look out of control at times and will lead to inconsistency.

All in all even you yourself said he had all the tools to be a very good QB. It seems to me that you are getting caught up a bit in the idea of immediate success. Of course RG3 is going to need to work to become a great NFL QB, everybody does. Immediate success should never be expected of any rookie QB.

I agree that immediate shouldn't be expected and it's an issue of our culture to be honest. While he has the tools, developing into an elite/good(isn't this all we care about in this hobby) doesn't always happen(see Jamarcus Russell). When I look at RGIII having to change up possibly his arm angle, develop better feet in the pocket, poise under pressure, and learn a real NFL offense. It just gives me doubts, a lot more doubts than Andrew Luck.

Sorry I had to rush this as my wife is hounding me to leave.....

 

[placebo]

Was your first statement necessary? My point was outside of Cam Newton's rushing, he wasn't as impressive and needs work...just like RGIII.Also RGIII is much shorter and smaller framed than Cam, Eli, and pretty much any other legit QB in the NFL outside of Drew Brees.

It shouldn't be necessary, but I see far too many people dismiss Newton's rushing with a wave of the hand. Here's another obvious statement, the point of the game is to move the ball forward and into the end zone...no one should care how it's done. If Carolina's staff next year decides they don't want Newton to run in the red zone, he's going to throw more passing TD's. This stuff goes hand in hand, you can't just say meh he gets some rushing yards on the side. Of course he needs work in the passing game, he just finished his rookie season.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Was your first statement necessary? My point was outside of Cam Newton's rushing, he wasn't as impressive and needs work...just like RGIII.Also RGIII is much shorter and smaller framed than Cam, Eli, and pretty much any other legit QB in the NFL outside of Drew Brees.

It shouldn't be necessary, but I see far too many people dismiss Newton's rushing with a wave of the hand. Here's another obvious statement, the point of the game is to move the ball forward and into the end zone...no one should care how it's done. If Carolina's staff next year decides they don't want Newton to run in the red zone, he's going to throw more passing TD's. This stuff goes hand in hand, you can't just say meh he gets some rushing yards on the side. Of course he needs work in the passing game, he just finished his rookie season.

Good luck on your trip

 

[placebo]

Good luck on your trip

Fishing? What I stated is pretty obvious stuff. If you don't think he'd have more passing TD's if less designed runs were called in the RZ, I don't really know what to say.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

All of this talk about RG III being compared with Cam Newton or Vick or Steve Young or ???? is missing a key point. He comes from the spread offense.

Video explaining basic points of SPREAD OFFENSE

The above video provides some of the basic elements of the spread. No NFL team runs a base-spread offense but have, two-minute,shotgun, up-tempo, packages. The base-offense in the NFL is a pro-set. Any rookie QB coming into the NFL who ran a spread has to learn the pro-set and their are inherent problems in making the transition that boil down into the following:

A spread QB

- has his shoulders squared looking up at the defense

- a clear unobstructed and constant view of the defense allows time for proper reads

- he NEVER has to take his eyes off of the defense, i.e., the defense is always within his view.

A pro-set QB is completely different:

- First, no-gun so he simply has to master the exchange (we've all seen blown snaps)

- he has to learn drops, three/five/seven step drops

- a pro-set QB will completely turns his back away from the defense

- after making drops a pro-set QB has to reset his feet

We've all seen when a QB comes off the bench after not being familiar making an exchange where they have blown the snap so the 'simple' exchange from center to QB is a valid issue that a spread QB has to learn.

In the gun, three/five/and seven step drops don't factor in because the QB is already 'back' in the gun and is away from the LOS so he is already at the correct depth and read the defense as he allows his receiver to run his route. A pro-set QB is dropping as he is also trying to read the defense and 'timing' his drop to coincide with his receiver's route.

A pro-set QB tyically takes the snap and turns to hand-off or fake the handoff. A good fake requires him to turn away from the defense and that split second of having the defense out of site is the downfall of many spread QBs. Its thee most difficult thing that they have to learn.

Footwork, its much more difficult from a pro-set because the QB is taking the snap at the LOS and the making drops and that means he 'typically' has to re-set his feet to get enough zip on the ball to make an accurate throw. In a spread or gun the QB typically moves up and that allows much more power into the throw. Moving backwards means to get that same amount of power the QB has to get to the proper depth and stop and change his momentum forward before he can attain the same velocity of his throws.

So all of the talk about comparisons between QBs is secondary IMHO. Any rookie QB coming from a spread has inherent issues, they do. Andrew Luck has operated in a pro-set and was coached by an NFL QB. He doesn't have any of the above issues hanging over his head.

I just wanted to touch on the above points and enter them into the discussion because the RG III discussion should bring up the reasons why ANY rookie QB coming from a spread is deemed higher risk than one coming from a pro-set.

 

[duaneok66]

the above is an OUTSTANDING post.

 

[jurb26]

All of this talk about RG III being compared with Cam Newton or Vick or Steve Young or ???? is missing a key point. He comes from the spread offense.

Video explaining basic points of SPREAD OFFENSE

The above video provides some of the basic elements of the spread. No NFL team runs a base-spread offense but have, two-minute,shotgun, up-tempo, packages. The base-offense in the NFL is a pro-set. Any rookie QB coming into the NFL who ran a spread has to learn the pro-set and their are inherent problems in making the transition that boil down into the following:

A spread QB

- has his shoulders squared looking up at the defense

- a clear unobstructed and constant view of the defense allows time for proper reads

- he NEVER has to take his eyes off of the defense, i.e., the defense is always within his view.

A pro-set QB is completely different:

- First, no-gun so he simply has to master the exchange (we've all seen blown snaps)

- he has to learn drops, three/five/seven step drops

- a pro-set QB will completely turns his back away from the defense

- after making drops a pro-set QB has to reset his feet

We've all seen when a QB comes off the bench after not being familiar making an exchange where they have blown the snap so the 'simple' exchange from center to QB is a valid issue that a spread QB has to learn.

In the gun, three/five/and seven step drops don't factor in because the QB is already 'back' in the gun and is away from the LOS so he is already at the correct depth and read the defense as he allows his receiver to run his route. A pro-set QB is dropping as he is also trying to read the defense and 'timing' his drop to coincide with his receiver's route.

A pro-set QB tyically takes the snap and turns to hand-off or fake the handoff. A good fake requires him to turn away from the defense and that split second of having the defense out of site is the downfall of many spread QBs. Its thee most difficult thing that they have to learn.

Footwork, its much more difficult from a pro-set because the QB is taking the snap at the LOS and the making drops and that means he 'typically' has to re-set his feet to get enough zip on the ball to make an accurate throw. In a spread or gun the QB typically moves up and that allows much more power into the throw. Moving backwards means to get that same amount of power the QB has to get to the proper depth and stop and change his momentum forward before he can attain the same velocity of his throws.

So all of the talk about comparisons between QBs is secondary IMHO. Any rookie QB coming from a spread has inherent issues, they do. Andrew Luck has operated in a pro-set and was coached by an NFL QB. He doesn't have any of the above issues hanging over his head.

I just wanted to touch on the above points and enter them into the discussion because the RG III discussion should bring up the reasons why ANY rookie QB coming from a spread is deemed higher risk than one coming from a pro-set.

This is precisely why I am always skeptical of spread QBs. RG3 seems to be the best prospect I've ever seen out of the spread though. All the skills are there but as you said, there is a learning curve that is to be expected.

Guys like Luck and Stafford who both have elite ability and come from a pro-style offense are rare.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

... This is precisely why I am always skeptical of spread QBs. RG3 seems to be the best prospect I've ever seen out of the spread though. All the skills are there but as you said, there is a learning curve that is to be expected.Guys like Luck and Stafford who both have elite ability and come from a pro-style offense are rare.

I like Griffin and he may be able to overcome the inherent risk coming from a spread offense. He has an aura about him and he's highly intelligent. He graduated high school early and he already has his undergrad degree (3.67 GPA) and he's a few credits shy of his masters degree so he has the mental ability to learn everything but he is raw and it will take time. Depending upon where he winds up going he may not see the field much his rookie season. If he goes to Cleveland (Pat Shurmur) or Miami (Joe Philbin) he would not only have to learn the WCO and every QB who has switched to the WCO has taken at least a year before they got up to speed. Its a tough transition for any QB but is supposed to be even tougher for a spread QB. I don't know the offense the Shanahan's run in Washington.

 

[cstu]

All of this talk about RG III being compared with Cam Newton or Vick or Steve Young or ???? is missing a key point. He comes from the spread offense.

Quality post, but Steve Young played in the spread at BYU. I expect it to take RG3 several years to develop just as it did Young.