Robert Kraft: Should he be in the Hall of Fame? (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

'Winners write history': Inside Robert Kraft's 12-year Hall of Fame quest

 

[Faust]

Excerpt:

In the past decade, three owners have slipped on a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio. Each time, Kraft, now 83, was on the outside looking in, even though arguably no owner is more deserving.

"There's no box that Bob Kraft doesn't check to get into the Hall of Fame," says Hall of Famer Bill Polian, the former Colts general manager who has twice stood up to argue for Kraft's induction. "When he didn't get in last year, I lost sleep over it. I'm still sick at heart about it."

No current owner has tried harder to get into the Hall -- or been denied longer. Beginning in 2012, Kraft's supporters have lobbied Hall voters on his behalf. Eddie DeBartolo Jr., the former San Francisco 49ers owner, was inducted in 2016 despite losing his team in 2000 because of his connection to an extortion case. DeBartolo has five Lombardi Trophies; Kraft, at the time, had four. Some Hall of Fame voters assured the disappointed members of Kraft's inner circle that he would be next.

Jerry Jones was inducted in August 2017. The Dallas Cowboys owner threw himself a glitzy party in Canton, headlined by Justin Timberlake. Back in Foxborough, Kraft and his supporters reacted to Jones' induction with anger and confusion. They seethed that Hall voters didn't seem to appreciate Kraft's work to grow the league through media and labor deals, and the Patriots' unparalleled dynasty.

Kraft saw the selection of his archrival as an insult, a verdict that Jones is more responsible for the NFL's astonishing success.

"He hasn't been to the NFC title game in two decades and he gets in?" Kraft told a confidant. "How does that work?"

 

[Faust]

Excerpt:

A dozen Hall voters, who rarely discuss their deliberations, told ESPN that each time Kraft was snubbed, the campaign on his behalf became more urgent and inventive. The selectors lean on a variety of reasons for denying Kraft while approving coaches and a scout from decades ago -- and even a referee. The voters said the case for Kraft has been hurt by multiple Patriots cheating scandals, along with a selection system that until now has pitted coaches against owners. They even mention Kraft's dismissed charges after two visits to a Jupiter, Florida, massage parlor.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Personally don’t care, didn’t even know they put owners in the HoF. But given what I know as an outsider, he should be in. Sounds like the biggest concern is the cheating scandals, but Brady and Belichick are going to walk into the Hall when they’re eligible so I don’t see why it would be held against Kraft so much more strongly.

 

[jabarony]

If they're going to put owners in the HOF, Super Bowl rings should be low on the list of reasons. They hired a good GM once or twice? Lame.

Criteria for owners should revolve around building the league, or the sport of football in general. And negative behavior, scandals, cheating the league, etc. should be counted much more heavily as negatives than SB rings should count as positives.

 

[DeaLerZ]

For what?? Being the best at getting happy endings???

 

[Godsbrother]

Other than owning a very successful team, did Kraft do anything that advanced the league? I honestly don’t know.

 

[Boston]

For a second put everything else aside (positive or negative) except for this one thing...when he bought the team in 1994 it was right there with any sports franchise as the worst franchise in all of sports with pretty much a high school stadium (which he actually bought in 1988) that was on the verge of moving to Saint Louis...I don't think the younger crowd can truly grasp what a debacle this franchise used to be...fast-forward to today and it is one of the flagship franchises of the NFL that has been a huge part of the NFL's insane growth and is usually ranked as the second most valuable franchise in the NFL and in the top 5 in this country in overall sports...that in itself is about as impressive of a resume as an Owner could have...and one more thing...BB is a monster part of this but it is easily forgotten that his hiring was panned by many and Kraft deserves a ton of credit for going with him (and he had to trade a #1 for him as well)...Kraft has his faults and I don't really care about Owners getting into the H-o-F but if they do I don't think it should be a question whether he is worthy of this honor.

I would add this quote from Jeff Saturday who played for their main rival at the time:
Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday, referring to Kraft's role in helping to settle the NFL lockout before the 2011 season, said "He [Kraft] is a man who helped us save football."

 

[BobbyLayne]

Founders & Owners Already in:

• Raiders owner Al Davis, who also served as GM, head coach & AFL Commissioner
• Browns owner Paul Brown also held GM and coach titles
• Chicago Bears owner, GM & HC George Halas
• Denver Broncos Pat Bowlen
• Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones
• SF 49ers Eddie DeBartolo
• BUF Ralph Wilson
• PIT Dan Rooney
• PHI/PIT/NFL Bert Bell
• CHI Cardinals Charles Bidwell
• Columbus Panhandles Joseph Carr
• Michigan Panthers (1920s) Jimmy Conselman
• Detroit Lions Martha Ford
• Dallas Texans/LC Chiefs Lamar Hunt
• Packers Founder Curly Lambeau
• NYG Tim Mara
• NYG Wellington Mara
• Washington Redskins Founder George Marshall
• Cleveland/Los Angeles Rams Dan Reeves
• Pittsburgh Founder Art Rooney

Some of those folks were pretty awful humans. Terms that end in -ist or -ism are applicable. Some committed felonies. Several have a bio that begins with “daughter or son of team owner” & accomplished next to nothing on their own.

1) What’s the issue?
2) Who cares?

378 HoF inductees & a good sized chunk of them never played a down in the NFL (refs, GM, team president, commish).

 

[Faust]

Sources: HOF committee passes over Patriots' Robert Kraft again

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

 

[Desert_Power]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Depends on your perspective and moral compass, I suppose.

 

[FairWarning]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

What is this world coming to when a 78 year old billionaire widower can't get a happy ending!?

 

[JohnnyU]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Depends on your perspective and moral compass, I suppose.

Someone bring me up to speed on why he should be in prison, because I haven't heard a thing that would insinuate that.

 

[Boston]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Depends on your perspective and moral compass, I suppose.

Someone bring me up to speed on why he should be in prison, because I haven't heard a thing that would insinuate that.

The only thing I can think of is their drafting the past 5 years has risen to a felony offense.

 

[JohnnyU]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Depends on your perspective and moral compass, I suppose.

Someone bring me up to speed on why he should be in prison, because I haven't heard a thing that would insinuate that.

The only thing I can thinking is their drafting the past 5 years has risen to a felony offense.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

 

[Boston]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

Not defending Kraft but my guess is he did not go there because of that…he was just an old guy looking for a hand-dookey and did not choose that place because of their business model.

 

[Bri]

Sources: HOF committee passes over Patriots' Robert Kraft again

"Hay is considered the founding father of the NFL. In 1920, he organized the first meeting of teams that became the American Professional Football Association, the precursor to the NFL. Historians say without Hay, there might not have been an NFL."

Assumptions of a 104 year old bit-Some previous committee left off a guy that's an interesting google. That carries on and possibly he's forgotten about and possibly he's back on the ballot. The current committee made it right and voted him in.

It's not wholly about Kraft. They did a great job framing that article so people would think it is. "Hay finally voted into HOF" would not get the same interest as many of us didn't know who he was

 

[Lansdowne]

On the one hand, I’m eternally grateful to Kraft for saving the Pats from being sold to an owner that was ready to move them to St. Louis, and for his part in the unprecedented success of the dynasty.

On the other hand, I haven’t forgotten how he capitulated to Goodell during all those “-Gate” witch hunts, how he humiliated himself and the organization (and dodged criminal charges somehow) in that Florida massage parlor scandal, on the eve of the AFC Championship game in Kansas City no less, how he was quick to dismiss Antonio Brown because he didn’t want the media to be reminded of his own misdeeds earlier that year (not that AB was an angel himself but Brady took him in to his home and wanted to help him and really needed a WR, the way it was handled seemed like the last straw for him in New England), and him being so desperate to get into the Hall of Fame that he had an entire documentary series made for the purpose of throwing Belichick under the bus.

I’m indifferent to whether he makes it or not, though I’d be lying if I said I didn’t get a little satisfaction seeing him have to squirm a bit longer after how much campaigning he’s doing for himself, at the expense of those who brought him success (see: The Dynasty).

 

[need2know]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

Oh pls

 

[Brunell4MVP]

No owner should be in unless they started the league or did something off the charts inventive. Making billions and winning a few SBs on the back of a player you thought was so great that you took them at pick 199, and thus thought about 198 players were better than, doesn't make you anything other than another billionaire owner. Congrats, but that's not HoF material. I'd rather Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt take up that floorspace.

 

[need2know]

No owner should be in unless they started the league or did something off the charts inventive. Making billions and winning a few SBs on the back of a player you thought was so great that you took them at pick 199, and thus thought about 198 players were better than, doesn't make you anything other than another billionaire owner. Congrats, but that's not HoF material. I'd rather Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt take up that floorspace.

i agree. should be for players and coaches only.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

I don't know you well enough to figure out who you revere and highlight their moral shortcomings but rest assured, they're human beings. There's a few skeletons in everyone's closet. Your note reads like you're like 18 and have yet to discover the complexity of the human condition. Clutch those pearls baby.

Also the "patriots cheat" people would do the world a favor and google "your team cheats." I don't know if the site is still active but every. single. team. cheats or has cheated. I'd dress you all down but I have **** to do.

 

[Joey Wright]

If they're going to put owners in the HOF, Super Bowl rings should be low on the list of reasons. They hired a good GM once or twice? Lame.

Criteria for owners should revolve around building the league, or the sport of football in general. And negative behavior, scandals, cheating the league, etc. should be counted much more heavily as negatives than SB rings should count as positives.

This aligns with my thinking @jabarony

 

[Anarchy99]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

This makes it sound like Kraft was the one rounding up underage women, forcing them into the sex trade, and running the entire operation. Here's an example. Let's say you go to a pawn shop and purchase something. And it turns out to be stolen. And it turns out the people that stole it are terrorists. Should we charge you with possession of stolen goods and as a co-conspirator for funding a terrorist group?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

No owner should be in unless they started the league or did something off the charts inventive. Making billions and winning a few SBs on the back of a player you thought was so great that you took them at pick 199, and thus thought about 198 players were better than, doesn't make you anything other than another billionaire owner. Congrats, but that's not HoF material. I'd rather Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt take up that floorspace.

This. What's Robert Kraft ever done other than be very, very rich and luck in to Tom Brady? Better get Victor Kiam in there for selling Kraft the team!

DeBartolo. Jerruh. Davis. Rooney. Eff 'em. All of 'em. Putting in owners is pretty much just a way for owners to jerk each other off.

 

[Desert_Power]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

Fair point

 

[Lansdowne]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

This makes it sound like Kraft was the one rounding up underage women, forcing them into the sex trade, and running the entire operation. Here's an example. Let's say you go to a pawn shop and purchase something. And it turns out to be stolen. And it turns out the people that stole it are terrorists. Should we charge you with possession of stolen goods and as a co-conspirator for funding a terrorist group?

I agree with you Anarchy. But all the same I don't blame others for questioning why a billionaire, with all his wealth and resources, went out of his way to go to a strip mall in Jupiter, FL the morning he has to be in Kansas City with his team playing for the chance to be in the Super Bowl. Why that place at that time?

 

[Anarchy99]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

This makes it sound like Kraft was the one rounding up underage women, forcing them into the sex trade, and running the entire operation. Here's an example. Let's say you go to a pawn shop and purchase something. And it turns out to be stolen. And it turns out the people that stole it are terrorists. Should we charge you with possession of stolen goods and as a co-conspirator for funding a terrorist group?

I agree with you Anarchy. But all the same I don't blame others for questioning why a billionaire, with all his wealth and resources, went out of his way to go to a strip mall in Jupiter, FL the morning he has to be in Kansas City with his team playing for the chance to be in the Super Bowl. Why that place at that time?

I think we all agree that what Kraft did ranges anywhere from embarrassing to distasteful to wildly inappropriate. Why he resorted to doing what he did seems unfathomable. Kraft's peccadillos that day certainly seem odd to the rest of us. If he really felt the need to engage in utilizing hired help, why not just order room service and keep everything private? We shouldn't be shocked or offended at what wealthy billionaire owners do in their free time. I am sure the list of indiscretions over the years would be long and disturbing. Everything is relative. The women Kraft was filmed being with is 2.5 times the age the women BB is currently dating. That's equally cringey, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

He should be in prison, not the HoF. What he did was way worse than what Pete Rose did. Money will get you out of any problem in America.

Prison is a bit much there. And gambling on the game is much worse than getting caught getting a handy.

Agree. One is embarrassing himself while the other is akin to insider trading.

Not that I want to dive too deep into the discussion here, but Kraft wasn't cheating with the MILF down the street, or even paying for sex with a girlboy on the corner like Eddie Murphy did. The place he went to was part of a global crime syndicate that was full of sex slaves. This is way past just embarrassing himself. These weren't willing participants and it's pretty disgusting stuff.

This makes it sound like Kraft was the one rounding up underage women, forcing them into the sex trade, and running the entire operation. Here's an example. Let's say you go to a pawn shop and purchase something. And it turns out to be stolen. And it turns out the people that stole it are terrorists. Should we charge you with possession of stolen goods and as a co-conspirator for funding a terrorist group?

I agree with you Anarchy. But all the same I don't blame others for questioning why a billionaire, with all his wealth and resources, went out of his way to go to a strip mall in Jupiter, FL the morning he has to be in Kansas City with his team playing for the chance to be in the Super Bowl. Why that place at that time?

I think we all agree that what Kraft did ranges anywhere from embarrassing to distasteful to wildly inappropriate. Why he resorted to doing what he did seems unfathomable. Kraft's peccadillos that day certainly seem odd to the rest of us. If he really felt the need to engage in utilizing hired help, why not just order room service and keep everything private? We shouldn't be shocked or offended at what wealthy billionaire owners do in their free time. I am sure the list of indiscretions over the years would be long and disturbing. Everything is relative. The women Kraft was filmed being with is 2.5 times the age the women BB is currently dating. That's equally cringey, but different strokes for different folks.

He's definitely a first ballot lock for the Philanderer Hall of Fame.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

not to delve too deep into politics here but I don't think he'll be in the HOF too soon but FMPOV it wasn't that awful since he wasn't cheating. His first wife died in 2011 and he didn't remarry until '22. Was he dating his second wife in 2019? If so she clearly doesn't care. Not a Pats fan and I frankly don't care if he gets in or not but for something he did to help the nfl, he helped to end the nfl lockout in 2011. I'm sure it's embarrassing for Kraft but getting a handy (assuming that's all that happened) isn't the worst thing in te world.

 

[JohnnyU]

Glass houses and all…..

I wonder what skeletons exists in some poster closets?

 

[The Duff Man]

Founding member of the Rub N Tug category.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Founding member of the Rub N Tug category.

That should make for an interesting statue in Canton.

 

[Anarchy99]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

 

[Lansdowne]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

Thank you for this. I'll back down on the trafficking aspect of it. Still think he's a fool for putting himself in that position in the first place (and forever being on the end of rub and tug jokes), but glad to hear he wasn't involved in anything more nefarious.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

Kraft is and should be held to a much higher standard but if you want to compare him to the everyday Joe then go for it.
Everyday Joes don't usually get into the HoF

 

[ChiefD]

Founding member of the Rub N Tug category.

That should make for an interesting statue in Canton.

laugh emoji is sad it couldn't be clicked multiple times for this

 

[Anarchy99]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

Kraft is and should be held to a much higher standard but if you want to compare him to the everyday Joe then go for it.
Everyday Joes don't usually get into the HoF

Really? The Halls of Fame in multiple sports have a few guys inducted into their hallowed halls that were murderers, wife beaters, bigots, alcoholics, drug users, pill poppers, philanderers, and swindlers. Kraft got charged with an Everyday Joe offense . . . about the lowest charge there is. If we were to only consider folks that were squeaky clean, then a lot of guys already inducted would need to get booted out.

I really am not a big fan of owners getting in. What do they really do other than sign the checks? Kraft is said to have played a key role in ending a lockout and contributing to the rapid expansion of the league (getting things approved by owners, new contracts, expanding the brand, etc.). I still don't correlate that to what happens on the field, but at some point, they felt that owners deserved to get in.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

You're smarter than this. Saying he had "nothing to do with any sex-trafficking" is nonsense. Without scumbags like him paying for sexual services from little girls that are forced into sexual slavery, the "industry" would simply not exist. Supply = demand. So while I admit he's likely not legally culpable for the sex-trafficking, he most certainly is partially responsible for what is happening to these little girls. Law vs morality don't always move in lock step, and in most cases the moral aspect of the act is a much better indicator or right vs wrong. Also, do you think this was the first (or the last) time he engaged in these wretched acts?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

Kraft is and should be held to a much higher standard but if you want to compare him to the everyday Joe then go for it.
Everyday Joes don't usually get into the HoF

Really? The Halls of Fame in multiple sports have a few guys inducted into their hallowed halls that were murderers, wife beaters, bigots, alcoholics, drug users, pill poppers, philanderers, and swindlers. Kraft got charged with an Everyday Joe offense . . . about the lowest charge there is. If we were to only consider folks that were squeaky clean, then a lot of guys already inducted would need to get booted out.

I really am not a big fan of owners getting in. What do they really do other than sign the checks? Kraft is said to have played a key role in ending a lockout and contributing to the rapid expansion of the league (getting things approved by owners, new contracts, expanding the brand, etc.). I still don't correlate that to what happens on the field, but at some point, they felt that owners deserved to get in.

With so many men in the last few years being called on the carpet for far less than human and sex trafficking, you can point your moral compass in any direction you want

-As far as owners go, Jerry Jones gets a lot of heat but he moved Kroenke to Los Angeles and lined the pockets of all the owners by turning Los Ang from a dark NFL city to no hosting 2 NFL teams and watching SoFi put up to house all of this. He's revered by NFL owners behind closed doors in case folks were unclear about any of this. Fellow owners don't look down on him the way the media and the average NFL fan might. It's true

Back to Kraft, I'm fine if he doesn't make it in any time soon

 

[Anarchy99]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

You're smarter than this. Saying he had "nothing to do with any sex-trafficking" is nonsense. Without scumbags like him paying for sexual services from little girls that are forced into sexual slavery, the "industry" would simply not exist. Supply = demand. So while I admit he's likely not legally culpable for the sex-trafficking, he most certainly is partially responsible for what is happening to these little girls. Law vs morality don't always move in lock step, and in most cases the moral aspect of the act is a much better indicator or right vs wrong. Also, do you think this was the first (or the last) time he engaged in these wretched acts?

I don't know how much you followed the case, but there were a lot of problems with the case at the Orchids of Asia day spa. From what I remember, the authorities had been staking out multiple potential sex trafficking sites (8 of them, I believe). Multiple agencies coordinated sting operations that occurred at the same time. Several other locations had a lot more going on than the Jupiter, FL spa. However, since the stakeouts were part of a multi-agency task force and Kraft was the big fish, his name got tied to sex trafficking. However, the police in the Jupiter case had no evidence that there was any sex trafficking that occurred at that location. Prosecutors admitted to this in court. What police had uncovered was a location offering massages with happy endings. At best, it was a prostitution ring that didn't offer a full slate of traditional brothel service offerings.

People can judge Kraft however they want. But when law enforcement and the prosecution tell a judge in open court that in 6+ months of investigating a spa that they saw no evidence of any sex trafficking, in my mind, I take that to mean there wasn't any sex trafficking going on. If people want to tie Kraft to sex trafficking or he somehow supported it, have at it. I don't know what the man did the rest of the time and with whom. Similarly, some people will find his behavior "wretched," others will not. Each of us will have our own moral compass. I would never do what Kraft did, but that doesn't mean I think he should be locked up.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I know a lot of people zeroed in on the sex-trafficking element of the case, but Kraft and 24 other men were charged with a misdemeanor offense of solicitation, which carried a max sentence (if it ever came to that) of 60 days in jail. Most first offenses on similar charges would normally involve paying a fine and some sort of limited amount of community service. He had nothing to do with any sex-trafficking (and did not have any knowledge of it). The woman he was with was almost 60 years old. The entire ordeal was skeesy, but it was a minor infraction even if it went forward through the court system.

The other part of the case that wouldn't have flown in terms of legal procedures if the case ever made it to court was the police stopped Kraft's vehicle after he left the scene (he wasn't driving) without the driver breaking any motor vehicle rules and demanded that Kraft present identification / a license. The police botched the whole sting operation multiple ways . . . and once their net snagged someone like Kraft, they made a big deal out of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to worry about in my own life to care all that much about an almost 80-year-old billionaire looking for a happy ending.

You're smarter than this. Saying he had "nothing to do with any sex-trafficking" is nonsense. Without scumbags like him paying for sexual services from little girls that are forced into sexual slavery, the "industry" would simply not exist. Supply = demand. So while I admit he's likely not legally culpable for the sex-trafficking, he most certainly is partially responsible for what is happening to these little girls. Law vs morality don't always move in lock step, and in most cases the moral aspect of the act is a much better indicator or right vs wrong. Also, do you think this was the first (or the last) time he engaged in these wretched acts?

I don't know how much you followed the case, but there were a lot of problems with the case at the Orchids of Asia day spa. From what I remember, the authorities had been staking out multiple potential sex trafficking sites (8 of them, I believe). Multiple agencies coordinated sting operations that occurred at the same time. Several other locations had a lot more going on than the Jupiter, FL spa. However, since the stakeouts were part of a multi-agency task force and Kraft was the big fish, his name got tied to sex trafficking. However, the police in the Jupiter case had no evidence that there was any sex trafficking that occurred at that location. Prosecutors admitted to this in court. What police had uncovered was a location offering massages with happy endings. At best, it was a prostitution ring that didn't offer a full slate of traditional brothel service offerings.

People can judge Kraft however they want. But when law enforcement and the prosecution tell a judge in open court that in 6+ months of investigating a spa that they saw no evidence of any sex trafficking, in my mind, I take that to mean there wasn't any sex trafficking going on. If people want to tie Kraft to sex trafficking or he somehow supported it, have at it. I don't know what the man did the rest of the time and with whom. Similarly, some people will find his behavior "wretched," others will not. Each of us will have our own moral compass. I would never do what Kraft did, but that doesn't mean I think he should be locked up

You seem caught up in the legal aspect of it all. I'm talking more about the morality of the act. I don't dispute anything you've said regarding the legal case. It was a mess. They botched it all. It doesn't change the fact a lot of scumbags decided it was a good idea to pay for sex acts from slaves.

I don't care what was said in court. I'm rational enough to know these girls don't choose to work in these places. Where do you think girls from "prostitution rings" come from? That's the sad reality of it all, and the sadder reality of it all is that the system is failing them time and again.

 

[Balco]

People are complicating this - Kraft 100% does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and it has nothing to do with the Florida incident, spy-gate, shady business dealings or being a bad person.

It comes down to what he has he done that deserves enshrinement? Just being an owner of a team that won super bowls doesn’t cut it at all.

 

[Ruffrodys05]

My opinion, and that is all it is:

I'm really not in favor of recent/current owners being inducted to the HOF. Owners from the time the league was formed? Sure. I believe Bert Bell recently was inducted. Deservedly. He was the original founder of the Eagles in 1933. He was instrumental in establishing the annual Collegiate Selection process (the Draft.) The very first "Draft" was held in 1933 in Philadelphia. He and Art Rooney combined their teams for the 1943 season. Each team had lost many players to the war effort and this was a way to continue to provide Pennsylvanian pro football fans with a team, albeit an unorthodox one, worth rooting for. Bell was a true trailblazer in the early years of the professional football world.

I don't think Jerry Jones should have been inducted, at all. I do not believe Kraft is deserving either. And just to be clear, neither is current Eagles owner Lurie. I may be an Eagles fan and love what Lurie has done for the franchise but, no. Just because you turned a crappy franchise around to be one of the more consistently lucrative and competitive franchises in the league doesn't give you the credibility to be inducted into the HOF.

By the way, Jones may have been instrumental in getting the Rams back to Los Angeles but, so what? He didn't do it for the fans or the City of Los Angeles or St. Louis for that matter. There was absolutely zero concern for either/any during that process. The only thing that mattered to him was the money the league would potentially make and the owners would share in. Did any of that money get passed on down to the fans? No way. Ticket prices went up. Again.

 

[pollardsvision]

People are complicating this - Kraft 100% does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and it has nothing to do with the Florida incident, spy-gate, shady business dealings or being a bad person.

It comes down to what he has he done that deserves enshrinement? Just being an owner of a team that won super bowls doesn’t cut it at all.

AFAIK, he's not even in the Patriots Ring of Honor/Hall of Fame. What a loser.

Arthur Smith says start there and then we'll have the NFL HOF discussion.