Roethlisberger in the Super Bowl (1 Viewer)

[BlueOnion]

  Anytime the Steelers pass the ball, it is almost a 'trick' play.

Really? How many trick plays did the Steelers run last week when torching the Colts secondary in the first quarter? And if you say a play action is a trick play, I will laugh in your e-face.

Actually, any time Roethlisberger drops back and throws the ball. Play action or not, the passing game is not what the opposing defenses try to take away from the Steelers.Again, I don't want to belittle Roethlisberger and what he has done. We can only judge him by what he is asked to do and how well he does it; which is pretty F'n good.

 

[FFFIEND]

No. Not big Ben. However, Cower starts to cement his legacy as a choke artist.

 

[-OZ-]

Anytime the Steelers pass the ball, it is almost a 'trick' play.

Really? How many trick plays did the Steelers run last week when torching the Colts secondary in the first quarter? And if you say a play action is a trick play, I will laugh in your e-face.

Actually, any time Roethlisberger drops back and throws the ball. Play action or not, the passing game is not what the opposing defenses try to take away from the Steelers.Again, I don't want to belittle Roethlisberger and what he has done. We can only judge him by what he is asked to do and how well he does it; which is pretty F'n good.

You do realize Ben has thrown 268 passes in 12 games - 21 per game. That's a lot of "trick plays".

The passing game may not be the first priority for defenses, but that's like saying anytime Edge or Rudi run, it's a trick play.

 

[BlueOnion]

The passing game may not be the first priority for defenses, but that's like saying anytime Edge or Rudi run, it's a trick play.

Exactly, but keep in mind I said it was like a 'trick' play. But you are right, Edge and Rudi have it much easier than Bettis and Parker. When we compare these running backs, we have to account for the offense they are in and how defenses play them.Just out of curiousity, what was Edge's yards per attempt average? I bet it was pretty high.

 

[-OZ-]

The passing game may not be the first priority for defenses, but that's like saying anytime Edge or Rudi run, it's a trick play.

Exactly, but keep in mind I said it was like a 'trick' play. But you are right, Edge and Rudi have it much easier than Bettis and Parker. When we compare these running backs, we have to account for the offense they are in and how defenses play them.Just out of curiousity, what was Edge's yards per attempt average? I bet it was pretty high.

For the season? 4.2, while Willie Parker had 4.7

 

[nygiants56]

I'll try to keep this one simple.

Postseason records

Peyton Manning: 3-6

Ben Roethlisberger: 3-1

Disregarding all the differences between these two players that I have already laid out in this thread, I don't see how you can ignore the blatant difference in their records. When you factor in the difference that exists in their respective age and experience levels, Peyton gets completely destroyed in this comparison.

True, but I am talking about records in big games, like the AFC Championship Game and\or Superbowls?They are both 0-1 and Roethlisberger could go 0-2 this weekend, unless he is a 'winner'; whatever that means.

People are focusing WAY too much on this "big" game definition. For argument's sake, let's say two QBs, A and B, both go 10-6 in the regular season every year for a decade. They both make the playoffs as a wild-card every year. QB A loses his first round playoff game for each of the first 9 years. The last year, he wins the wild card game, divisional game, and conference championship game, but loses the Super Bowl. QB B wins the wild-card game and the divisional game every year (including 9 head to head wins over QB A) but goes 4-6 in the conference title game and 1-3 in the Super Bowl.QB A has a 3-10 playoff record but a 1-1 "big game record"

QB B has a 23-9 playoff record but a 5-9 "big game record"

Is QB A a better QB because he has a .500 "big game" record, as opposed to .358 for QB B?

Sadly enough, neither of them are big game quarterbacks. Tell me more about this Quarterback C. Did he win 10 straight Superbowls?

So, in your mind, the two are equal when it comes to performance when it counts most?

obviously your a colts fan?!?!

2nd year pro, 2nd year starter, 2nd straight championship game, and you want to label him as a choker if they lose??

hold on

 

[CrossEyed]

I'll try to keep this one simple.

Postseason records

Peyton Manning: 3-6

Ben Roethlisberger: 3-1

Disregarding all the differences between these two players that I have already laid out in this thread, I don't see how you can ignore the blatant difference in their records. When you factor in the difference that exists in their respective age and experience levels, Peyton gets completely destroyed in this comparison.

True, but I am talking about records in big games, like the AFC Championship Game and\or Superbowls?They are both 0-1 and Roethlisberger could go 0-2 this weekend, unless he is a 'winner'; whatever that means.

So it's better to lose early in the playoffs so you don't get the reputation of losing the "big game"?

 

[-OZ-]

So it's better to lose early in the playoffs so you don't get the reputation of losing the "big game"?

This is getting repetitive, but that's exactly what some appear to think.While some argue that Ben should be labeled a choker if they lose, Eli seems to get a free pass, and Rivers gets hyped as the next big thing. (not by all, but that appears to be the prevailing notion)

 

[dmax02]

Cowher #1 rushing team in the league during his time in PIT 30K yards I think. 6 championship games. How many playoff appearances almost every year. I just think PIT's big problem was at QB they never had a really good qb since bradshaw. O'Donnell, Stewart, Maddox, Tomzcak during Cowhers time those qb's always mad big mistakes in big games. Ben is the real deal it seems like and he can only get better... only thing I worry about is he is injury prone with his style of play. All this talk how great the team is around him that any qb should be fine. They would never be here if Maddox or Batch was in there. Give Ben credit he makes the plays when he needs to. Last AFC champ game was too much pressure on him instead of throwing the ball away or whatever he would try to make a big play. Now if you watch his play he will take the sack or dump the ball in a safe area instead of forcing it like he did last year in the playoffs. He has got the skills to be a great qb you can see how much he matured from last yea to this year.I mean a coach can only do so much. Cowher is a great coach 1 of the top guys in the league. Stability is what a team needs all these teams out there get a new coach and expect to be in the superbowl that year or the next if not they hire a new coach. Look how long Cowher and Shannahan have been with there team and how sucessful they have been. 2 coaches for PIT in the last 30 some years Rooneys are smart.

 

[H8fulHuck]

I'd say no, only because of the game of expectations. Nobody really expected the Steelers to get where they are today. They are where they are largely because of their QB. So if they lose this week, they were simply 'playing over their heads' and it was a nice run. It's a big benefit to being a Cinderella type team.

It's nice that people see that the Steelers are where they are largely because of their QB. And that doesn't relate only to the playoffs.

You have to give credit where credit is due. I don't think Roethlisberger is a big reason for the Steelers success, but when the team does need a play from the quarterback, Roethlisberger has delivered. There is no disputing this; he does what he is asked to do and more times than not he succeeds at it.

There ya go. Now factor in #7 accomplished this without a viable no.2 WR whereas Manning is armed to the teeth with weapons. El is best suited for a #3 WR role. Ben knows his role in the offense. He is expected to deliver in the clutch and has come through more often than not.

BTW, I realize you are on a fishing expedition (simply being dense and trying to deflect Peyton's deficiency) So to help you label a "choke", look no further than Vandershank and Peyton until they finally win the big one.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

I am in awe that this moronic thread is in it's 3rd page?!?

 

[GiantsRule]

I'd say no, only because of the game of expectations. Nobody really expected the Steelers to get where they are today. They are where they are largely because of their QB. So if they lose this week, they were simply 'playing over their heads' and it was a nice run. It's a big benefit to being a Cinderella type team.

It's nice that people see that the Steelers are where they are largely because of their QB. And that doesn't relate only to the playoffs.

You have to give credit where credit is due. I don't think Roethlisberger is a big reason for the Steelers success, but when the team does need a play from the quarterback, Roethlisberger has delivered. There is no disputing this; he does what he is asked to do and more times than not he succeeds at it.

I waited a while to chime in but this is clearly the most ridiculous of all of your out-there statements -- and that includes the asenine comments about Morten Anderson. Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

I'm really shocked that FBG mods haven't locked this obvious fishing attempt.

 

[jetpack]

Indeed there is a label - Champion.

 

[GiantsRule]

What a waste of 3 pages!

 

[jurb26]

I am in awe that this moronic thread is in it's 3rd page?!?

 

[BlueOnion]

Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

So how do you rank the Steelers' strength?1 Roethlisberger

2 Defense

3 Running Game

Just curious.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

So how do you rank the Steelers' strength?1 Roethlisberger

2 Defense

3 Running Game

Just curious.

This year, that's exactly how I'd rank them. You can probably tie the health of the offensive line in with the running game, because you don't have one without the other.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

So how do you rank the Steelers' strength?1 Roethlisberger

2 Defense

3 Running Game

Just curious.

In the playoffs, it's been in that exact order.

 

[BlueOnion]

Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

So how do you rank the Steelers' strength?1 Roethlisberger

2 Defense

3 Running Game

Just curious.

In the playoffs, it's been in that exact order.

Sure, but the follow up question is how do you think opposing defenses prioritize the Steelers team?I am not trying to belittle Roethlisberger here, I think he has done his job exceptionally well. But lets not loose perspective of how defenses approach the Steelers offense.

Do you really think Roethlisberger would be just as effective if teams always dropped 8 guys into coverage?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Roethlisberger is perhaps the biggest reason for the Steelers' success. You really think Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, or Kordell Stewart would have had HALF the record Ben has put up over the past two seasons?

So how do you rank the Steelers' strength?1 Roethlisberger

2 Defense

3 Running Game

Just curious.

In the playoffs, it's been in that exact order.

Sure, but the follow up question is how do you think opposing defenses prioritize the Steelers team?I am not trying to belittle Roethlisberger here, I think he has done his job exceptionally well. But lets not loose perspective of how defenses approach the Steelers offense.

Do you really think Roethlisberger would be just as effective if teams always dropped 8 guys into coverage?

Eventually, yes, because IF that happened, they would simply run the ball until the defense corrected. You have to take what you're given in the NFL, especially in the playoffs. For years, teams have been taking the run from the Steelers and forcing their QBs to win the game with their arms, and repeatedly, those QBs have failed to do so. Where they failed, however, Roethlisberger is succeeding, and I don't see how there's any better illustration of how good a QB he's become.You're not just "managing" the game when you throw for 180 yards and 2 TDs in the first half, and finish with almost 300 yards passing and almost 30 attempts. To suggest otherwise is nuts.

 

[BlueOnion]

Eventually, yes, because IF that happened, they would simply run the ball until the defense corrected. You have to take what you're given in the NFL, especially in the playoffs. For years, teams have been taking the run from the Steelers and forcing their QBs to win the game with their arms, and repeatedly, those QBs have failed to do so. Where they failed, however, Roethlisberger is succeeding, and I don't see how there's any better illustration of how good a QB he's become.

You're not just "managing" the game when you throw for 180 yards and 2 TDs in the first half, and finish with almost 300 yards passing and almost 30 attempts. To suggest otherwise is nuts.

I think we are getting side-tracked and rehashing the the other Roethlisberger thread. But back on point ( , I changed the thread title), which I think you are the only one who is comprehending the concept of this thread is how ridiculous labeling is.Possibly the Steelers will win the Super Bowl and Roethlisberger will be (deservably or undeservably) labeled a winner.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Eventually, yes, because IF that happened, they would simply run the ball until the defense corrected.  You have to take what you're given in the NFL, especially in the playoffs.  For years, teams have been taking the run from the Steelers and forcing their QBs to win the game with their arms, and repeatedly, those QBs have failed to do so.  Where they failed, however, Roethlisberger is succeeding, and I don't see how there's any better illustration of how good a QB he's become.

You're not just "managing" the game when you throw for 180 yards and 2 TDs in the first half, and finish with almost 300 yards passing and almost 30 attempts.  To suggest otherwise is nuts.

I think we are getting side-tracked and rehashing the the other Roethlisberger thread. But back on point ( , I changed the thread title), which I think you are the only one who is comprehending the concept of this thread is how ridiculous labeling is.Possibly the Steelers will win the Super Bowl and Roethlisberger will be (deservably or undeservably) labeled a winner.

We are having the same discussion in two different threads.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Please delete this trend.I'm not a fan of the Steelers or Roethlisberger,but this is a ######ed trend.Now if this was about Manning either Manning it would have some bite. The Manning's after there lose

 

[BlueOnion]

Please delete this trend.

I'm not a fan of the Steelers or Roethlisberger,but this is a ######ed trend.

Now if this was about Manning either Manning it would have some bite.

The Manning's after there lose

 

[Warsteinner]

No need to worry about this now. Manning wears that label alone.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

he's 23....so NO

yeah, that's two years in a row where he's SUCKED in the biggest game of his year.

 

[CrossEyed]

he's 23....so NO

yeah, that's two years in a row where he's SUCKED in the biggest game of his year.

And since no other QB in the history of the league has ever been in position to "suck" in the Championship game his first year and the SB his second year, there's nobody that you can point to that has performed better than Ben in that situation. Experience is the best teacher and Ben is getting a ton of it. He was better this year than last year and I'll bet that he is better next year. If/when he gets to another SB, I'm pretty sure he'll be a LOT better.Last year everyone said he was horrible in the playoffs. This year he was great in the playoffs. Geez, give the guy a few years to completely develop. Most guys are either still in college or are carrying a clipboard at the age of 23.

 

[Workhorse]

he's 23....so NO

yeah, that's two years in a row where he's SUCKED in the biggest game of his year.

And since no other QB in the history of the league has ever been in position to "suck" in the Championship game his first year and the SB his second year, there's nobody that you can point to that has performed better than Ben in that situation. Experience is the best teacher and Ben is getting a ton of it. He was better this year than last year and I'll bet that he is better next year. If/when he gets to another SB, I'm pretty sure he'll be a LOT better.Last year everyone said he was horrible in the playoffs. This year he was great in the playoffs. Geez, give the guy a few years to completely develop. Most guys are either still in college or are carrying a clipboard at the age of 23.

Agreed.Let's also point out that it's not like this Steelers team is loaded with weapons in the passing game.

Big Ben had a subpar game last night, but he's a BIG-TIME QB. No question about it.

 

[BlueOnion]

No need to worry about this now. Manning wears that label alone.

Roethlisberger has solidified himself as the ultimate clutch performer! He has the ring, nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Odogs]

Like someone said earlier, he didn't play well but they still won and the experience is only going to help him. He had three great games that got them there so he gets a lot of the credit. Seattle's D deserves a lot of credit for Ben's play too. Besides giving up a few big plays they played very well, especially in the first half.

 

[CrossEyed]

The other thing to remember is that there were at least 3 passes that could have been caught, but weren't, including 1 by Ward that would have been a TD. If his receivers make those catches, his confidence may have been higher, which may have resulted in better play.

 

[Workhorse]

The other thing to remember is that there were at least 3 passes that could have been caught, but weren't, including 1 by Ward that would have been a TD. If his receivers make those catches, his confidence may have been higher, which may have resulted in better play.

That pass to Ward in the end zone would have been tough to keep both feet in bounds. Ward was pretty wide open but Ben overthrew him a bit.

 

[CrossEyed]

The other thing to remember is that there were at least 3 passes that could have been caught, but weren't, including 1 by Ward that would have been a TD. If his receivers make those catches, his confidence may have been higher, which may have resulted in better play.

That pass to Ward in the end zone would have been tough to keep both feet in bounds. Ward was pretty wide open but Ben overthrew him a bit.

I agree that it would have been a tough catch. But give Ward that pass 10 times and he catches it 7 times.