Beaumont
Footballguy
Depends on how deep your rosters are ... I am holding in all my 16 team leagues and larger ...Saints will not abandon their second round pick ... he is still the future at SS ...
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Roman Harper on IR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Beaumont
- Start date
Rozelle
Moderator
As quickly as players are returning from ACL's, I don't see any reason he can't be 100% next year.The ole ACL isn't as devastating injury as it once was I. would hold on to him if you have room, I know I will. I thought he produced very well for a player who played in only 4+ NFL games. I guess its all in how you evaluate talent.
stevegamer
Footballguy
The ACL point is a good one, and he shouldn't lose his opportunity completely.
I guess I can see teams needing some youth there and having the space carrying him. (I'm carrying Porter & Rogers at WR still in a dynasty, and they are non-productive). If you've got plenty of good young players, it's not so important.
As a counterpoint, I would NOT cut Peterson, he's produced at a higher level at a harder to find position. I doubt there's be much debate on that, but I was interested to see the thoughts on Harper.
I guess I can see teams needing some youth there and having the space carrying him. (I'm carrying Porter & Rogers at WR still in a dynasty, and they are non-productive). If you've got plenty of good young players, it's not so important.
As a counterpoint, I would NOT cut Peterson, he's produced at a higher level at a harder to find position. I doubt there's be much debate on that, but I was interested to see the thoughts on Harper.
cr8f
Footballguy
Bullocks was last week.
houndirish
Footballguy
I'm in no rush to pick up Stoutmire. The guy is incapable of an interception and isn't big enough to be a tackling presence. Yeah, he should still get on the stat sheet simply due to the scheme but 4-6 solos with no big play potential can be easily topped on the waiver wire.
Rozelle
Moderator
Nice Call!Saints | Bellamy signedTue, 10 Oct 2006 14:26:34 -0700The New Orleans Saints announced they have signed free agent S Jay Bellamy. Terms of the deal were undisclosed.
cr8f
Footballguy
METAIRIE — The New Orleans Saints lost starting strong safety Roman Harper for the season Monday when an MRI revealed a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, the New Orleans Times-Picayune reported on its Web site.
Harper, a rookie second-round draft pick from Alabama, suffered the injury late in the fourth quarter of the team’s 24-21 victory against Tampa Bay on Sunday in the Superdome.
He earned a starting position during training camp and started each of the Saints’ first five games. Harper was tied for fifth on the team with 26 tackles, including seven against the Buccaneers, and had one sack.
Harper will likely be replaced in the lineup by 11-year veteran Omar Stoutmire, who has started 51 games with the New York Giants, New York Jets, Dallas Cowboys and Washington Redskins.
Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton did not immediately respond to e-mails sent to them Monday evening by The Advocate to confirm the injury.
The news about Harper came just hours after coach Sean Payton reviewed his team’s 4-1 start. He said at his weekly news conference he was pleased his team was able to win despite several blemishes in the performance.
“I think after watching the film, the encouraging thing about a win like that is that it wasn’t perfect,” Payton said. “There were a lot of things that we can correct. I thought the effort was there. I was pleased that we were able to get the win and obviously it was a big win, a division game and at home.”
The Saints had to come from behind twice, after falling behind 7-0 on the Bucs’ first possession, then after squandering a 17-7 lead to trail 21-17 in the fourth quarter.
“I think when you win games, you begin to gain more and more confidence,” Payton said. “I think that our players feel like we’re not out of a game. It’s an attitude. It’s the players’ understanding of what you have to do to change momentum.”
The Saints changed the momentum in the first quarter when running back Deuce McAllister got rolling with a 57-yard run on his way to a 123-yard rushing game. That set up a John Carney field goal.
“Deuce did a great job making some runs,” Payton said. “We came off the ball. I thought that was critical in this game. I knew coming here he was a Pro Bowl running back and he’s a guy that’s respected throughout the league.
“I’ve been real pleased with everything I’ve seen. His work ethic, he’s got his weight right where it needs to be. He’s got strength. He’s playing with intensity. He’s practicing well. He played outstanding yesterday. He played fantastic.”
Harper, a rookie second-round draft pick from Alabama, suffered the injury late in the fourth quarter of the team’s 24-21 victory against Tampa Bay on Sunday in the Superdome.
He earned a starting position during training camp and started each of the Saints’ first five games. Harper was tied for fifth on the team with 26 tackles, including seven against the Buccaneers, and had one sack.
Harper will likely be replaced in the lineup by 11-year veteran Omar Stoutmire, who has started 51 games with the New York Giants, New York Jets, Dallas Cowboys and Washington Redskins.
Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton did not immediately respond to e-mails sent to them Monday evening by The Advocate to confirm the injury.
The news about Harper came just hours after coach Sean Payton reviewed his team’s 4-1 start. He said at his weekly news conference he was pleased his team was able to win despite several blemishes in the performance.
“I think after watching the film, the encouraging thing about a win like that is that it wasn’t perfect,” Payton said. “There were a lot of things that we can correct. I thought the effort was there. I was pleased that we were able to get the win and obviously it was a big win, a division game and at home.”
The Saints had to come from behind twice, after falling behind 7-0 on the Bucs’ first possession, then after squandering a 17-7 lead to trail 21-17 in the fourth quarter.
“I think when you win games, you begin to gain more and more confidence,” Payton said. “I think that our players feel like we’re not out of a game. It’s an attitude. It’s the players’ understanding of what you have to do to change momentum.”
The Saints changed the momentum in the first quarter when running back Deuce McAllister got rolling with a 57-yard run on his way to a 123-yard rushing game. That set up a John Carney field goal.
“Deuce did a great job making some runs,” Payton said. “We came off the ball. I thought that was critical in this game. I knew coming here he was a Pro Bowl running back and he’s a guy that’s respected throughout the league.
“I’ve been real pleased with everything I’ve seen. His work ethic, he’s got his weight right where it needs to be. He’s got strength. He’s playing with intensity. He’s practicing well. He played outstanding yesterday. He played fantastic.”
houndirish
Footballguy
This blows ... I've got Harper in both my leagues. However in dynasty I've got Bullocks too so I guess there's my silver lining. 
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Unreal. I own him too. The list goes on. Those of you starting him, Stoutmire is probably available, and I wouldn't expect a letdown in weekly stats.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Maybe not. Harper was only averaging 5 tackles a week. I think Bullocks will end up being the better option as the season plays out though. Stoutmire is probably worth rostering and watching for a week or two to see if he'll be productive enough to start.
Sidewinder
Footballguy
Wouldn't surprise me if they bring Jay Bellamy back. He was in the group that got the axe at the final cutdown, and Payton specifically mentioned him as one of the toughest guys to let go.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
stevegamer
Footballguy
Do you guys think Harper is a cut or a hold in dynasty?
Realistically, I think he's a cut. We have no idea how he'll recover & he's a guy who was completely under the radar at first.
I feel he was more about opportunity than talent - while he has talent, he's not an uber-talent, and the injury should mean he's not 100% next season, reducing "talent" further.
Realistically, I think he's a cut. We have no idea how he'll recover & he's a guy who was completely under the radar at first.
I feel he was more about opportunity than talent - while he has talent, he's not an uber-talent, and the injury should mean he's not 100% next season, reducing "talent" further.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
If you don't have an IR, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to hold a non-stud player at a fairly easy to replace position.
cr8f
Footballguy
Have him on IR in 12 team league. It wasn't a devastating injury as he thought it was minor after the game. He should be back.
stevegamer
Footballguy
No IR in my league, so he's a cut & replace. He'llbe out there next year in the rookie/FA Vet draft probably. And if not, I will be able to grab a rookie safety who looks about as promising
brakeyawself
Footballguy
Yea Im in the same boat. I was loving owning Harper for the long haul. But had to drop him in a Dynasty league for the Jets CB Miller. Our ww is really thin. The guy who picked up Harper was amazed I dropped him. But yea, I kind of feel like I'll be able to get a rookie SS next year rather easily as Harper was a ww pick up early this year. blah.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
CC and Bloom are the frontmen for draft issues, but I'm pretty sure the rookie safety group in the 2007 draft is going to be the deepest it has been in a long while.
brakeyawself
Footballguy
That is really good news if the case. Not to mention there are probably young guys like Pollard, Page, and Brodney Pool out there on the ww (at least in my league) who might get a shot later this season or next and prove just as valuable as Harper has been.
Rozelle
Moderator
"04 class wasn't too shabbySean TaylorSean JonesBob SandersGibril WilsonMichael Boulware (converted LB)Madeau WilliamsWill AllenErik ColemanStuart SchweigertGlenn Earl
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I'm trying to avoid threads about my injured IDPs, but this one had my ears burning. O4 was a scary deep draft as was 06.HuffWhitnerPollardPageManningBullocksWatkinsBetheaHarperLandrySimpsonMost started or starting, all getting minutes. I think these two classes will be very competitive over the years as to which was better. 07 probably doesn't have the depth, but the elite talent rivals both.LandryWeddleGriffinMeriweatherlook like elite talents at the Huff Whitner level to me. As of now, I would put Huff and Whitner below the first two on that list, seriously. I recently said I think Weddle is the best DB in the nation, but Landry blew me away after that. These are two big-time talents, imo. I think there is a dropoff in quality depth for 07 compared to 04 and 06 - even if ALL the best underclassmen declare... I don't like the depth. I am a Zbikowski fan, btw, and he has hardened detractors. I am working on an 07 rookie IDP report. Maybe the 2nd tiers at each position haven't cleared the fog yet, but most of this class follows the pattern above. Elite then a big dropoff of depth. I think the professional scouts need to sort this out better before amateurs start weighing in with strong opinion, so I'm patient. I watch about a dozen college games a week (prefer ncaa to nfl honestly). Last year I was very excited about the coming rookie class by now - almost gushing with praise. This year is either very slow to develop or very shallow. I fear the worst. I do have manlove for those first two safeties listed though. I've fiddled with some mock drafts, both real and fantasy rookie style, and I think the safeties are going to be second rounders in rookie drafts. Last year 80 something rookies interested me and nice players went undrafted in Zealots 6 round rookie drafts. I expect my interest to be cut in half to about 40 next year... making 4th - 6th rounders expendable ammo to move up into the third or deal for 08 picks. 08 is da bomb again.eta: Florida's FS Reggie Nelson is an elite talent, but the FS thing and maybe... just maybe... he's been in the right place at the right time with a bit of luck this year, not pure talent. He's a junior, but if the hype continues, he has to declare.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I should clarify. It had sounded to me like the "elite" talent was much deeper than in previous years -- at least three and maybe four stud NFL talents that might translate well to IDP. IMO, there's always second tier talent that ends up available in the later rounds of IDP drafts but they don't regularly declare themselves until mini-camps or later. Deferring to those who watch more than I do, though.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Fair enough. Safety is a stength in this coming draft. I consider Huff and Whitner the elite talent among the current rookie safeties. Certainly another name or two could earn that designation. This year, I'm pretty comfortable saying 4 are in that class, so it's doubled. Nelson I think is hyped (man is he hyped in some Fla circles). He looks immature physically, and he didn't thrill me today. BUT, Josh Gattis is a stud whose been on the radar since last year. I took notes during a close look at Wake and NC St. today and it was more than the game saving interception. Gattis may very well be an elite safety himself. Some love Aaron Rouse at Va Tech. I'm not sold, but could be with the right measureables.
stevegamer
Footballguy
And just to update on Stoutmire, he looked horrible yesterday. He's a stud if you get points for penalties committed & missed tackles.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Hmm... I'm going to disagree. I think Harper's injury probably helped the Saints win that game. McNabb would have abused a rookie with his deep game (think Pat Watkins). The way Donovan is throwing the ball is very hard on safeties. I thought Omar did a respectable, veteran job with his limited talent. The five solos were as I expected, similar production as Harper, but both the PDs were fairly significant plays, stopping a drive and preventing a long score. I think Harper would have been toast. Bullocks looked awful a few times, btw, and Omar saved his bacon once (possibly a game winning defensive play). They both missed some tackles they shouldn't have, the penalties are no big thing, but my goodness, the Saints beat the Eagles with McNabb at his best and Stoutmire was a big part of that. I thought the statistician could have been a little more generous with a couple assists and another PD, btw. The huge (3rd) PD appears in the p by p but not the boxscore. Who Dat say they gonna beat them Saints?! I have always hated the lack of loyalty represented by bandwagoners and fair weather fans, but I am a Saint this season.
The Gator
Footballguy
Just a general comment on the Saints.
I watched the Saints/Bucs game on NFL replay. That dome was SILENT. I could here the pre snap calls and all the chatter on the feild. That being said, I am a little shocked, but glad in the way they played. I was thinking that if the crowd couldn't get fired up for a division game what would they do for an Eagles game? I think Payton has a freaking great thing going there. I hope they keep it going and the fans stay fired up for the whole year.
I watched the Saints/Bucs game on NFL replay. That dome was SILENT. I could here the pre snap calls and all the chatter on the feild. That being said, I am a little shocked, but glad in the way they played. I was thinking that if the crowd couldn't get fired up for a division game what would they do for an Eagles game? I think Payton has a freaking great thing going there. I hope they keep it going and the fans stay fired up for the whole year.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I was going back and forth between two games, but on Philly's final drive you cannot discount Stoutmire's excellent play.
1. A nice tackle keeps Westbrook short of the first down.2. Saves Bullocks' bacon. If he doesn't close on that one, from the only camera angle I saw, Westbrook runs and runs and runs.
3. Contributes to a play that ends the Eagles final drive.
Saints then drive for game winning fg.
Correct, we'll never know, and I hate statements like the one I made for that very reason (sorry). But, the above series at least explains the statement. I don't know what all the whining is about, but I could have missed some grievous play. I did watch the game. Can't say I saw it all or studied it though. The reason Harper won the job was run support. He is excellent there and NO was desperate at LB through most of camp. Against the Eagles Harper's instincts in run support weren't nearly as important as a veteran in coverage.
In run support Harper > Watkins. In coverage Watkins > Harper, and it isn't close really. Harper doesn't have near the foot speed or range. Stoutmire had as many PDs in this game as Harper had all season.
It's a huge win against a very tough opponent. Stoutmire was a big part of it. He put up pretty much the same numbers Harper has been putting up. "We'll never know" if Harper would have been better. My point all along has been Stoutmire (or whoever starts there) will probably put up the same numbers as Harper was (so far this is the case). Harper wasn't lighting it up. He was getting beat and missing tackles too. I own Harper (on my IR till next year or I may send him out in RFA in the offseason), but I think his play was not living up to his hype. This isn't Stoutmire love from me, not even close. Just a little realism on Harper who wasn't much better. Helix says Omar looked horrible. Maybe Harper would have too. We'll never know.
Rozelle
Moderator
Had the game on one of the TV's but wasn't paying much attention to it, so can't comment on Stoutmire's play. I really thought Harper had looked good, all things considered. I obviously think more of him than most, always been partial to players with great instincts, have a nice track record there. No whining here CC, just giving my1. A nice tackle keeps Westbrook short of the first down.2. Saves Bullocks' bacon. If he doesn't close on that one, from the only camera angle I saw, Westbrook runs and runs and runs.
3. Contributes to a play that ends the Eagles final drive.
Saints then drive for game winning fg.
Correct, we'll never know, and I hate statements like the one I made for that very reason (sorry). But, the above series at least explains the statement. I don't know what all the whining is about, but I could have missed some grievous play. I did watch the game. Can't say I saw it all or studied it though. The reason Harper won the job was run support. He is excellent there and NO was desperate at LB through most of camp. Against the Eagles Harper's instincts in run support weren't nearly as important as a veteran in coverage.
In run support Harper > Watkins. In coverage Watkins > Harper, and it isn't close really. Harper doesn't have near the foot speed or range. Stoutmire had as many PDs in this game as Harper had all season.
It's a huge win against a very tough opponent. Stoutmire was a big part of it. He put up pretty much the same numbers Harper has been putting up. "We'll never know" if Harper would have been better. My point all along has been Stoutmire (or whoever starts there) will probably put up the same numbers as Harper was (so far this is the case). Harper wasn't lighting it up. He was getting beat and missing tackles too. I own Harper (on my IR till next year or I may send him out in RFA in the offseason), but I think his play was not living up to his hype. This isn't Stoutmire love from me, not even close. Just a little realism on Harper who wasn't much better. Helix says Omar looked horrible. Maybe Harper would have too. We'll never know.
