Roy Halladay (1 Viewer)

[boubucarow]

How about Carrasco / Taylor / Donald for Halladay?

As a Phillies fan, I would love that. Carrasco's stock is down now. I think Toronto needs to hold out for better pitching prospects, if they can, though I'm not sure how all this will work out if Ricciardi doesn't want to hear offers until July 31.

The Jays want more than that for Doc.

 

[dparker713]

How about Carrasco / Taylor / Donald for Halladay?

Stop, just stop. Halladay isnt getting traded for 3 guys that rate out as league average players. A combination of Brown, Drabek, and Happ might be sufficient but the Phils wont do that deal. The Jays want someone like Kershaw or Rasmus to be the centerpiece of the deal, but their teams just arent going to give up those players. Add in that there are almost no teams that are willing to take on money and the potential suitors for the Jays are fairly limited.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I suspect the Jays will want two of Drabek/Taylor/Brown/Knapp. We might be able to talk them into one plus a bunch of 2nd-tier guys if no one else steps forward with a reasonable offer. But to think that the package for Halladay will have none of them is totally unrealistic.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The Jays want someone like Kershaw or Rasmus to be the centerpiece of the deal

Because those teams don't have many blue-chippers in the minors. The Phils do.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

How about Carrasco / Taylor / Donald for Halladay?

Stop, just stop. Halladay isnt getting traded for 3 guys that rate out as league average players. A combination of Brown, Drabek, and Happ might be sufficient but the Phils wont do that deal. The Jays want someone like Kershaw or Rasmus to be the centerpiece of the deal, but their teams just arent going to give up those players. Add in that there are almost no teams that are willing to take on money and the potential suitors for the Jays are fairly limited.

Cards aren't going to trade Rasmus or Brett Wallace. Saw Wallace last night in a AAA game against Omaha Royals. Dude has a great glove and an absolute cannon for an arm at 3B. Even played a few innings at 1B when they moved Barden to 3B. Hitting was just so so. Think he is adjusting to AAA.

 

[JohnnyU]

How about Carrasco / Taylor / Donald for Halladay?

Stop, just stop. Halladay isnt getting traded for 3 guys that rate out as league average players. A combination of Brown, Drabek, and Happ might be sufficient but the Phils wont do that deal. The Jays want someone like Kershaw or Rasmus to be the centerpiece of the deal, but their teams just arent going to give up those players. Add in that there are almost no teams that are willing to take on money and the potential suitors for the Jays are fairly limited.

I like Taylor more than Brown for sure (even though it's close), and he's a lot better than "league average". If the Phills are smart they would make sure he's included in any deal.

 

[Sea Bass]

Buchholz pitched well yesterday...............................

:dangle:

 

[dparker713]

The Jays want someone like Kershaw or Rasmus to be the centerpiece of the deal

Because those teams don't have many blue-chippers in the minors. The Phils do.

The Phils have a deep system, with plenty of talent. But they are not loaded with blue chip talent. They dont have a guy on the level of Hanson, Price, Feliz, Smoak, Wieters, Posey, Baumgartner, Tillman, Bucholtz. Sure, some of their lower level talent may have high ceilings, but they dont have guys that are very close to the majors with all-star potential. The Jays have said they want quality, not quantity, so all of these Phils deals should start with two of their top 4 prospects and/or a young guy already with the big club.The Jays dont have to move Halladay to cut payroll, and they have plenty of time between now and the 2010 deadline to get a deal they like.

 

[Balco]

I was listening to Melvin on XM this morning. Says they can take on salary. And the BRewers have some prospects they can give up for Halladay. I wouldn't be surprised to see them become a player. Getting Halladay would be huge for them, as a 1-2 of Halladay and Gallardo would be solid. Either Matt Gamel or Alcides Escobar would likely be the centerpiece, IMO.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The Jays dont have to move Halladay to cut payroll

That's not what I've been hearing.

they have plenty of time between now and the 2010 deadline to get a deal they like.

And how well did that go for the Twins with Santana? The more time Halladay can get with his new club, the more they'll be able to get for him.

 

[dparker713]

The Jays dont have to move Halladay to cut payroll

That's not what I've been hearing.

they have plenty of time between now and the 2010 deadline to get a deal they like.

And how well did that go for the Twins with Santana? The more time Halladay can get with his new club, the more they'll be able to get for him.

Just because Bill Smith is no Terry Ryan, doesn't validate your contention that they need to move him now to get the best deal. In the offseason, they'll more potential trade partners and therefore potentially a more pronounced bidding war, especially if more teams have financial flexibility in the winter. In the end, the Jays may never get an offer they like because the fall back of the two draft picks in compensation is fairly significant.

 

[Billy Bats]

The story on Philly sports radio this morning was that Halladay can be on an flight to Philly for Drabek, Taylor, Donald and Carrasco. However the Phillies don't want to part with Drabek and are trying to include Happ and a lesser player instead of Drabek.

 

[Darth Cheney]

The story on Philly sports radio this morning was that Halladay can be on an flight to Philly for Drabek, Taylor, Donald and Carrasco. However the Phillies don't want to part with Drabek and are trying to include Happ and a lesser player instead of Drabek.

If that is what they want...then the Phils should do it.

 

[dparker713]

The story on Philly sports radio this morning was that Halladay can be on an flight to Philly for Drabek, Taylor, Donald and Carrasco. However the Phillies don't want to part with Drabek and are trying to include Happ and a lesser player instead of Drabek.

If that is what they want...then the Phils should do it.

Unless the Marlins get to play the Nats the rest of the season, they're going to runaway with the division. They dont need to make a deal. If they do that deal their rotation this year would be Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, and Happ. Not sure if Blanton is under contract for next year, but if he's back then you can replace Happ with Myers. Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers, now would seem to be the time and they'd be the favorites this year and next to be the NL rep in the WS with those teams (as long as they can settle the bullpen down a bit)As a Mets fan, I'd hate to see them get Halladay, though I doubt they'd move that much of the top of their farm system, so Im hopeful.

 

[Darth Cheney]

The story on Philly sports radio this morning was that Halladay can be on an flight to Philly for Drabek, Taylor, Donald and Carrasco. However the Phillies don't want to part with Drabek and are trying to include Happ and a lesser player instead of Drabek.

If that is what they want...then the Phils should do it.

Unless the Marlins get to play the Nats the rest of the season, they're going to runaway with the division. They dont need to make a deal. If they do that deal their rotation this year would be Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, and Happ. Not sure if Blanton is under contract for next year, but if he's back then you can replace Happ with Myers. Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers, now would seem to be the time and they'd be the favorites this year and next to be the NL rep in the WS with those teams (as long as they can settle the bullpen down a bit)As a Mets fan, I'd hate to see them get Halladay, though I doubt they'd move that much of the top of their farm system, so Im hopeful.

Carrasco's star has definitely fallen....and there isn't much room up top for Donald as J-Roll and Feliz aren't going anywhere for at least another year. That leaves Taylor and Drabek...two high level prospects....but prospects nevertheless. With Savery, Knapp and Brown in the pipeline....that isn't going to hurt that much. In 1993 the Phils had the chance to trade Ben Rivera and Tyler Green for Randy Johnson. Their reason was that they didn't want to mortgage their future. On the flip though...the Phils do seem to have a system in place. Taylor and Brown are slotted to take over for Ibanez and Werth( contract) in a couple of years. I don't think they mind Howard walking in a couple. In three years the staff (if everything goes alright) should be Hamels, Drabek, Happ, Knapp, Savery and Moyer(kidding). Talent wise that's pretty good.

 

[Please See Mine]

The story on Philly sports radio this morning was that Halladay can be on an flight to Philly for Drabek, Taylor, Donald and Carrasco. However the Phillies don't want to part with Drabek and are trying to include Happ and a lesser player instead of Drabek.

As a Phillies' fan, I would definitely do this deal.I want to win the WS this year and having Happ and Halladay puts us in a better position this year than having Drabek and Halladay.

 

[Please See Mine]

Unless the Marlins get to play the Nats the rest of the season, they're going to runaway with the division. They dont need to make a deal.

Division is not good enough. We are not in a good position for the playoffs with this rotation. I would be nervous if we had to play the Giants in a 5-game series.

If they do that deal their rotation this year would be Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, and Happ. Not sure if Blanton is under contract for next year, but if he's back then you can replace Happ with Myers.

Blanton is still arbitration-eligible for 1 more year. Myers is a FA at the end of the year. No idea what they will do with him. I don't know if Moyer is going to be viable next year. They could definitely use an SP for next year.

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

 

[dparker713]

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

A typical hitter's peak is 28 or 29, everthing thereafter is the decline phase. Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Feliz and Ruiz are all 30 or older. Their only regular starter under 30 is Victorino and he turns 29 in November.

 

[JaxBill]

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

A typical hitter's peak is 28 or 29, everthing thereafter is the decline phase. Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Feliz and Ruiz are all 30 or older. Their only regular starter under 30 is Victorino and he turns 29 in November.

Or you can say the Phils only have 2 regular starters over 31. One is second in the league in HR and the other is a candidate for a Gold Glove.

 

[JaxBill]

Don't know why but I get the feeling that the Phils won't land Halladay. I can just picture them being certain that they're bidding against themselves so they offer a Savery / Donald / Carrasco package that the Blue Jays reject.

Instead I think they use the money and prospects to get a second level starter like Harang. I also think they pick up a RH bat on the bench like Willingham.

 

[Please See Mine]

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

A typical hitter's peak is 28 or 29, everthing thereafter is the decline phase. Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Feliz and Ruiz are all 30 or older. Their only regular starter under 30 is Victorino and he turns 29 in November.

Do you have stats on that?Ibanez is certainly old. Feliz and Ruiz are non-entities from a hitting standpoint.Howard is 29Werth is 29Utley is 30Rollins is 30I see no reason that they won't keep up high levels of productivity for the next 4-5 years.I do agree that now is the time to win, as Howard and Werth may be gone after the next 2 years, so I'm not sure why you are saying that they shouldn't do the deal.

 

[JaxBill]

Probably totally unrelated but Kyle Kendrick was scratched from his start this afternoon at AAA Lehigh Valley.

 

[Please See Mine]

Probably totally unrelated but Kyle Kendrick was scratched from his start this afternoon at AAA Lehigh Valley.

MLB.com's Todd Zolecki posted on his Twitter page that Philadelphia Phillies SP Kyle Kendrick was scratched from his start with Triple-A Lehigh Valley Tuesday, July 21, but it has nothing to do with a trade. Kendrick will start Wednesday, July 22.

 

[dparker713]

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

A typical hitter's peak is 28 or 29, everthing thereafter is the decline phase. Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Feliz and Ruiz are all 30 or older. Their only regular starter under 30 is Victorino and he turns 29 in November.

Do you have stats on that?Ibanez is certainly old. Feliz and Ruiz are non-entities from a hitting standpoint.

Howard is 29

Werth is 29

Utley is 30

Rollins is 30

I see no reason that they won't keep up high levels of productivity for the next 4-5 years.

I do agree that now is the time to win, as Howard and Werth may be gone after the next 2 years, so I'm not sure why you are saying that they shouldn't do the deal.

I misread Howard's age, but Werth is 30. I did not say they wont be productive hitters for the next several years, I said they were in their decline phase, i.e. they've likely already had their best years. link

I also did not say the Phils should not do the deal. I said they don't need to since the division sucks. I also said I hope they dont as a Mets fan as I believe if they make a deal for Halladay they'll be the favorites in the NL the next two years.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Considering their main bats are all in the decline phase of their careers

???

A typical hitter's peak is 28 or 29, everthing thereafter is the decline phase. Howard, Ibanez, Rollins, Utley, Werth, Feliz and Ruiz are all 30 or older. Their only regular starter under 30 is Victorino and he turns 29 in November.

Do you have stats on that?Ibanez is certainly old. Feliz and Ruiz are non-entities from a hitting standpoint.

Howard is 29

Werth is 29

Utley is 30

Rollins is 30

I see no reason that they won't keep up high levels of productivity for the next 4-5 years.

I do agree that now is the time to win, as Howard and Werth may be gone after the next 2 years, so I'm not sure why you are saying that they shouldn't do the deal.

I misread Howard's age, but Werth is 30. I did not say they wont be productive hitters for the next several years, I said they were in their decline phase, i.e. they've likely already had their best years. link

I also did not say the Phils should not do the deal. I said they don't need to since the division sucks. I also said I hope they dont as a Mets fan as I believe if they make a deal for Halladay they'll be the favorites in the NL the next two years.

I think that at this point in the game Phils fans aren't even worrying about the division but are instead a little nervous that their pitching staff doesn't stand up to the likes of Lincecum/Cain, Sabathia/Burnett, Lester/Beckett and the deeper staffs of the Dodgers, Angels and Rays.

 

[dparker713]

I think that at this point in the game Phils fans aren't even worrying about the division but are instead a little nervous that their pitching staff doesn't stand up to the likes of Lincecum/Cain, Sabathia/Burnett, Lester/Beckett and the deeper staffs of the Dodgers, Angels and Rays.

Its essentially the same staff that won the WS as last year with Happ in Myers' place. Admittedly Hamels results havent been there, but that mainly due to luck as his BABIP is extremely high at .344 compared to a slightly low .270 last year. Plus his FIP the past two years are nearly the same at 3.72 and 3.90 respectively. A big worry really should be Lidge and the rest of the pen. Admittedly when dealing with bullpen numbers there are always issues of small sample size, but his K/9 are down over 2 strikeouts. He always walks too many batters, and his control has gotten even worst with a 5.50 BB/9 (his highest since his rookie year). Like Hamels, he's also had an unusually high BABIP at .349 and an unlucky 67.6% strand rate. But the biggest red flag of all is his HR/9. Its 8 times higher than last year.

 

[T Bell]

If the Phillies do this move, it's for 1.5 regular seasons and 2 post-seasons IMHO. That's their realistic window - it's just tough to hold together a good team core longer than that.

They won a WS last year without Halladay, and they're running away with their division this year without him, so the first .5 seasons of Halladay are almost valueless for practical purposes.

It's a toss-up to me as to whether he's worth the price to them, and I agree that they're the best positioned to deal for him.

 

[Lehigh98]

Roy Halladay's name has been thrown around a lot recently, and he is the biggest difference-maker out there. And in the end, I do think he will be traded. Out to defend their championship, the Phillies are obviously interested, and they're an especially appealing team to play for because of their highly productive offense. Halladay would have a chance to win a ton of games with an outstanding defense and offense in support. The Phillies have the minor league talent to make a deal, but they probably are going to have to part ways with J.A. Happ and Kyle Drabek in addition to multiple other prospects. Halladay is at peak value now because he's pitching well, he's healthy and teams could have him for the next year and a half. And the Jays say they want a deal done by July 28. Let's not forget, though, that Halladay has a no-trade clause, so he controls where he ultimately will land. Philadelphia has the most motivation to put a deal together, but the Red Sox, Cardinals, Dodgers, White Sox and Rangers also could be in the mix for Halladay.

Happ and Drabek??

 

[Please See Mine]

Jon Heyman claims the Phillies will not trade Drabek

 

[Capella]

Sounds like the Rays are in on both Doc and Lee. Would not shock me if they end up with one, they are pretty clearly in a championship window.

 

[Balco]

Sounds like the Rays are in on both Doc and Lee. Would not shock me if they end up with one, they are pretty clearly in a championship window.

Good for the Rays if they get Halladay. They have a ton of minor league depth with great prospects. Unfortunately with the way baseball operates, teams like the Rays can't afford to go after a guy like Halladay, even though they can offer the best deal. Halladay anchoring that staff would be scary.