eaglesfan7
Footballguy
So Kolb isn't worth an offensive lineman or a safety or d lineman taken in the first round? please...
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Rumor: Kolb to AZ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
Kolb doesn't "accept" anything. This isn't MLB and no-trade clauses.Any team that trades for Kolb is going to want to have a deal in place, that's for sure. And I assume teams have a rough idea what they would offer Kolb. But the notion that not only is there a deal in place between two NFC teams (I would think Philly's preference is to trade him to the AFC), with no CBA, but that Kolb has already agreed to some back-door contract.............well, that's just silly. Not as silly as the idea that AZ would risk violating rules by entering into contract negotiations with Kolb because "word is" Fitz wants a QB. There is no CBA. The Eagles don't know if they could use a franchise tag on Kolb. Kolb and his agents (and the Eagles) don't know what the salary cap is, and what he can expect to make. If Kolb has patience, he is in the drivers seat. Everyone yammers on about how the Eagles don't have to accept a lowball deal, well, the same is true for Kolb. He doesn't need to rush into any deal with whomever the Eagles choose to trade him to. He can wait one more year, probably get some PT when Vick gets banged up, and become a free agent next year.'eaglesfan7 said:
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
You are incorrect. Kolb has already stated he wouldn't play for another team without a contract extension. These aren't new rumors people. They have been going on for months here in philly.
massraider
Footballguy
What am I incorrect about?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
"Donovan's my guy""Sean McDermott will be back next year""There's no deal on the table for Kevin Kolb"'eaglesfan7 said:
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
Exactly. This is why I hate his news conferences. They are such a joke. He never tells the truth and rarely answers a question directly. Dirty rat!!Oh then its definitely off then.'eaglesfan7 said:
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Same contact that said Leinart would be a great starting QB??
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Prefer year of Bulger, suck and then Luck.
dhockster
Footballguy
If the Eagles work out a deal with Arizona, Kolb will not kill the deal by refusing to negotiate a longterm contract. He wants two things: To start and to get a long-term deal. If he plays back-up for the Eagles this year and starts at some point and gets hurt he jeopardizes his ability to start and get a lucrative long-term deal. The $12 million he got from the Eagles was nice insurance, but I think he is smart enough to know that this next contract could be the only big contract he gets to sign. While Arizona is probably not his number one choice of organizations, the fact is he would have some nice weapons around him and he would be playing for a coach who got to the Superbowl.
massraider
Footballguy
I agree with this, partly. I also think Kolb isn't going to just grab the first long term deal he can get. His contract, when he finally signs it, will be interesting. He hasn't proven much as a starter, but any team that trades for him is going to view him as the answer at QB. What he has proven as a QB is limited, but he is going to want a serious contract. He and his agent might have a drastically different view of what he deserves than a team that might be interested in trading for him. If he thinks he can get 12 mill as a FA next year, some team offering him 9 mill might not seem attractive. I don't really know how many teams are interested in Kolb, but I do know that number of teams has gone down since last week, because of the draft.
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
Adam Schefter is reporting once the lockout is lifted (if and when) Arizona should have a deal ready.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Pretty much been saying this for quite a while now. Welcome to the party
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Worth another
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Was there a newspaper from 2010 on that street?'LHUCKS said:
JetMaxx
Footballguy
As an Eagles fan, I'd be very disappointed if all they receive for Kolb is a 1 and 4. VERY dispointed. The guy was the 36th pick the draft, the Eagles train and teach him for 4 yrs to become game ready and they move him for a potential(at best) mid first and a useless 4th? No thanks. The guy leads AZ to the playoffs and the Eagles are drafting a project DL or OL with the late first. This has to start with the talk at 2 #1's from AZ and we'll go from there.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
You're not being realistic.Matt Cassel, who stepped in and played a full season in New England, fetched a 2nd round pick. Matt Schaub was traded for two 2nd round picks to the Texans.Trent Green went to KC for a 1st rounder.Drew Bledsoe, who was a 9-year perennial Pro Bowler, went for a 1st rounder.Donovan McNabb, who had been to 5 Pro Bowls, was traded in the division for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounder.The only QB that went for a ton more than a 1st and something else was Jay Cutler, who had a much more proven pedigree than Kolb at that point.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Would you rather get nothing for him and watch him leave in free agency next year?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I was pretty much figuring that the Seahawks were working on this deal bolstered by the same evidence, that they didn't address QB in the draft. There aren't any really attractive QBs out there that would be worth trading picks/young players for a new HC with a glaring need to get a long term QB in the fold.
moleculo
Footballguy
yup. cutler was coming off of a pro-bowl year, @ 26 years old. Just ask candymanvandyfan how rare that is.I think Shaub is pretty comparable, and 2 seconds sounds about right to me.
LOL. How many teams will use that as their motto for 2011?
dhockster
Footballguy
There were a number of teams that were interested in Kevin Kolb before last week's draft. They had to ask themselves two questions: am I going to be able to get him, and can I sign him. The Eagles needed to know who was going to give them the most for Kolb and who Kolb would be willing to sign with. It only makes sense for every team involved to know how this was going to play out before the draft so they could plan their draft strategy. Arizona, Seattle, and Miami, all with an obvious need for a QB, did not draft one. A good QB could easily mean the difference for Arizona and Seattle making the playoffs, and it would certainly help Miami. So my guess is that the Eagles had a tentative deal worked out with one of these teams, including Kevin Kolb's stamp of approval.I think the Eagles did what they thought was best for the team by going with Michael Vick as the long-term starter. However, I think they also felt Kolb got a raw deal. I think Reid has worked with Kolb's input in deciding where he ends up (while finding the best deal for the Eagles). This appears to be what they did with McNabb last year. You seem to imply that the Eagles and Kolb are working against each other; I think they are working with each other to make sure both of their long term interests are satisfied. If I am misreading you, please let me know.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's pretty much what he said.
5Rings
Lurker
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
Kolb only cost your team a second rounder but you'll be upset if he only fetches a 1st and a 4th rounder in a trade???
Lehigh98
Footballguy
Where would you rank Kolb among these QB's?Cam NewtonJake LockerBlaine GabbertChristian Ponder
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JetMaxx
Footballguy
Matt Cassel was originally a seventh rd pick that was traded for the 34th overall selection 2 months prior to the draft. Tremendous upgrade in value for the Pats.Matt Schaub trade: Atlanta moved up from 10 to 8 in the first round of the 2007 draft, received 39th overall selection, and a 2008 2nd rd pick. The trade was completed 1 month prior to the 2007 draft when the value received by ATL was clear.
Trent Green was a beaten up 31 yrs old when he was traded for the 12 pick in the 2001 draft. trade value was immediate for STL with the trade being completed 1 week prior to the 2001 draft.
Bledsoe was a beaten up 30 yrs old when he was traded. And he was hardly a "perennial" Pro Bowler, making the Pro Bowl 3 times in 9 seasons with the Pats. I'll give you that the pick received by the Pats was in a draft one year after the trade.
McNabb was a washed up 33 yr old QB that was traded for a 2 and a conditional 3 or 4, which turned out to be a 4 because he was so lousy.
The only comparable situation to the Kolb potential trade is Schaub. Notice that ATL received immediate value in moving up from 10 to 8 and also received an early 2nd in the same draft. And enhanced the trade value with another premium pick in the following draft.
My problem with this potential deal from the Eagles standpoint is that the value is tremendously uncertain. If it were done a month ago and they got Peterson via the #5 overall in this draft, and a 4 next year, I would be dancing in the streets. Immediate, not uncertain value.
Perhaps 2 #1's is overvaluing Kolb, (which even that can be questioned because according to our beloved G-King there was a team offering at least that much prior to last years draft), but I would settle for no less than a 1 and 2, providing premium picks for what AZ will receive, a step in, game ready franchise QB.
massraider
Footballguy
The reason Shaub is the most comparable is because both QBs had proven about as much.
This offseason being what it is, it's a terrible situation for the Eagles. It would be reasonable to expect to have Kolb moved by the draft, and now you have to assume there are 5 or 6 less teams driving up the price.
And I agree, the fact that you are trading for draft picks that are unknowns, that completely sucks. Plus, you have to factor in the notion that Kolb may dramatically improve whatever team he goes to, lowering the value of those picks further.
They are going to get less than they would have in a lockout-less offseason, for sure. But it is still going to be a nice haul for a backup QB. I understand why Eagles fans think they should get a monster haul, but there are several reasons, completely out of their control, that could keep the price down.
Heck, if I was the Cards, I'd be a little concerned about how Kolb might perform away from the friendly confined of Any Reid's shadow. Reid has a pretty extensive history of making average talents look like top-quality field generals in Philly, why should this one be any different?
If there is a 'tentative' deal in place, I would guess that it would be for the Cards #1 next year, and maaaaaybe a #2, I would expect more likely a 3. If the Cards think Kolb is the goods, they probably figure their #1 next year will be in the 20's at worst, that's a pretty good price.
The only reason I don't think it'll be a 1 AND a 2, is because the Cards gained a little leverage in the draft. Suddenly, they can assume the Jags, Titans, Vikings, 49ers, Panthers, Bengals, won't be outbidding them.
This offseason being what it is, it's a terrible situation for the Eagles. It would be reasonable to expect to have Kolb moved by the draft, and now you have to assume there are 5 or 6 less teams driving up the price.
And I agree, the fact that you are trading for draft picks that are unknowns, that completely sucks. Plus, you have to factor in the notion that Kolb may dramatically improve whatever team he goes to, lowering the value of those picks further.
They are going to get less than they would have in a lockout-less offseason, for sure. But it is still going to be a nice haul for a backup QB. I understand why Eagles fans think they should get a monster haul, but there are several reasons, completely out of their control, that could keep the price down.
Heck, if I was the Cards, I'd be a little concerned about how Kolb might perform away from the friendly confined of Any Reid's shadow. Reid has a pretty extensive history of making average talents look like top-quality field generals in Philly, why should this one be any different?
If there is a 'tentative' deal in place, I would guess that it would be for the Cards #1 next year, and maaaaaybe a #2, I would expect more likely a 3. If the Cards think Kolb is the goods, they probably figure their #1 next year will be in the 20's at worst, that's a pretty good price.
The only reason I don't think it'll be a 1 AND a 2, is because the Cards gained a little leverage in the draft. Suddenly, they can assume the Jags, Titans, Vikings, 49ers, Panthers, Bengals, won't be outbidding them.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
babydemon90
Footballguy
better ROI then many of the top picks we've had , no?
babydemon90
Footballguy
Wonder if Seattle might drive up the price though... If you're Seattle, you don't want the Cards suddenly being a contender again....
JetMaxx
Footballguy
True.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Feeley had cache because the team went 5-1 with him as starter in 2002. HOWEVER, he was really pedestrian during that span. 75 QB rating, no 300 yard games. He was a game manager and circa 2002 the Eagles had a lot of talent on defense to make up for a meh QB.Kolb is a much better QB. He has already proven more in the NFL. He has flaws that might be fatal (seeing phantom pressure), but the Eagles are not pulling a trick on anyone by getting Schaub-like value for him.
dhockster
Footballguy
I am not going to let you steal the thunder from the high point in Koy Detmer's Career. He started the first game after McNabb's 02 injury and was 18 for 26 for 226 yards with 2 TD passes and 1 rushing TD. Feeley came in after Detmer went down and went 3 for 3 with 1 TD pass in the Eagles 38-17 victory in San Francisco. Thus Feeley only went 4-1 in games he started in 2002.That was a great Monday Night football game for Eagles fans expecting the season to go down the drain.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Remember that game. Don't remember thinking the season was going down the drain though.
dhockster
Footballguy
Maybe not that game with Detmer starting, but I definitely had a feeling that the season was going south when we had to start a 2nd year, 3rd string QB with no previous starts against the Rams, Seahawks, and all 3 NFC East opponents with 3 of those games on the road. That was definitely Reid's best defense. It would be great if the team could get anywhere close to that defense in the season ahead.
Warhogs
Footballguy
So maybe Kolb = Scott Mitchell?Point is he does not have a proven history of success and will cost a team a hefty contract and Philly will not be able to afford him after this season.
moleculo
Footballguy
what has he proven? He has 5 meaningful gmaes in his resume.BTW: Here's the passing D rankings for the teams these meaningful games were against:2009 NOR: 262009 KAN: 222010 SFO: 242010 ATL: 222010 TEN: 29
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Adam Caplan suspects the Eagles want a starter plus a 2012 first round pick. He mentions Greg Toler or Beanie Wells.http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=4151&line=204119&spln=1
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Beanie Wells? what on earth for?
FUBAR
Footballguy
Special teams?
seriously, Wells does nothing for the Eagles. Toler makes some sense I guess, but overall I just don't see a player that the Cardinals could give up that the Eagles would need.
Cassius
Footballguy
You're dreaming, and there's no way you can call Kolb a "franchise QB." Typical homerism. Arizona doesn't care where he was originally drafted compared to Matt Cassel and Kolb will never be able to hold Drew Bledsoe's jock strap.Sit on Kolb holding out for two 1sts and he'll walk next year. The time to strike while the iron is hot is almost over, the Eagles know it, and they'll take what they can get this year. If it's a 1st and a 4th, go home very, very happy.
dhockster
Footballguy
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I said he has proven more than Feeley, and I think that is 100% true. Feeley was pedestrian and had 0 elite games. Kolb was up and down but had several elite games. Schaub's only resume was throwing for a lot of yards in a home loss to NE. Kolb beat a very good playoff team in ATL and had other statistical great performances. He has proven more than Feeley and at least as much as Schaub.I am not arguing he's a guaranteed All Pro, but I think it is reasonable to say he's worth more than a mid 1st rookie QB. Given Jake Locker cost pick 1.8 and Christian Ponder cost pick 1.12, do you view trading a future 1st for Kolb to be more or less risky? How is asking for a midround pick in addition to the future 1st that unreasonable?If you're the Eagles why would you take less? If you envision yourself as a SB contender and know your QB lays his body on the line every game...
kylechoffman
Footballguy
Rosenhaus seems to think Palmer will require a 1st rounder once the lockout is lifted. If that happens prior to Kolb getting moved, cant wait to see what it will take to pry Kolb away from the birds.
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#711459
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#711459
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
certainly Palmer has shown he is a NFL capable QB, even if he has been average lately.The only think that Kolb has goign for him is youth, he certainly hasnt proved a thing.
renesauz
IBL Representative
The NFL pays a significant premium for youth every year around this time.blackbird001
Footballguy
All the 'what has he proven' talk is so meaningless. How is Kolb going to 'prove' anything unless he's given the opportunity? And by opportunity, I'm not talking about a few spot starts here and there. Give him the reins, let him own the offense, and make the mistakes every new QB does as he completes the learning curve.
