Ryan Mallett (2 Viewers)

[womb]

Couple that with the fact that the Patriots have long pursued a 1st round pick for Ryan Mallett, I come to the conclusion that the floor for their asking price is 600 points on that chart. A modest ceiling would be around 800 points which is around pick 21.

And where has the pursuit of that 1st got them? Mallett is now on the last year of his contract, meaning whoever trades for him now will need to give him a long-term deal. The ship has sailed on any chance of getting a 1st or close to it in value.

Please do not get me wrong. I agree with many of the personal statements put forth here both on the pro and on the con side.

With that disclaimer, I would like to step away from the world where I think or you think is credit worthy.

What I am trying to put forth is historical basis on intent (like beat writer reports from old) and trade values (like trades that have actually taken place).

The part where you say the ship sailing from the first round value reads very much a gut feeling on your side and I respect that, although I am sure we would be in agreement that what your gut is telling you may not neccessarily hold true for at least some NFL front offices.

I will now step into my personal view here and step away from those things I stated in the initial post. I would very much want the Pats to hold onto Mallett personally. I happen to believe Tom Brady is an outlier, and it would be tough for the Patriots to immediately find a replacement on the day he fails to be on the team for the long run for whatever the reason it happens to be. Without a long-term injury, I feel it is unlikely for a team with Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. to land a top 10 pick in a year where the class of great franchise quarterbacks is deep. I would rather my Patriots take chances on Mallett who has eaten so much of that humble pie and held on to that clipboard for so long. Now, that is just me. I would be very fine if this last paragraph was argued against and respect those arumentative views since I provided nothing but my gut.

 

[Bronco Billy]

That's all well and good, but you failed to reference the three lost years of cost control in your analysis.

I guess that's why I referenced that you're going to pay additionally for his experience - that would be the cost of renegotiating his contract. I would still expect that to be relatively cheap by starting QB standards though.

 

[False Start]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB, first round graded talent, a clean track record since being in the NFL and the benefit that his contract is up after this year. The Patriots will need something in return and are not dumb, they will try to move him if someone has interest. Why draft a guy like Bridgewater when you can have a guy like Mallett and still draft someone good in the 1st round? This smells like the makings of a draft day trade.

 

[massraider]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

 

[False Start]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

 

[Gopher State]

What would be really crazy is the Patriots trading Mallet to the Vikings for the 1.08, and then trading the 1.08, 1.29 and a 1st in 2015 to get 1.01 and take Bridgewater.

Vikings maybe dumb, but their not stupid, NEVER HAPPEN

 

[msudaisy26]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

My favorite part is this, I guess it didn't help guys like Aaron Rodgers, or Steve Young. There are examples both ways.

 

[MAC_32]

What would be really crazy is the Patriots trading Mallet to the Vikings for the 1.08, and then trading the 1.08, 1.29 and a 1st in 2015 to get 1.01 and take Bridgewater.

Vikings maybe dumb, but their not stupid, NEVER HAPPEN

I love unintentional comedy

 

[Gandalf]

All this stuff about Mallet learning behind Brady I think is a little off base. Tom Brady cares about one thing when it comes to football, winning a Super Bowl. Now if Mallet is a good 'learn by osmosis' guy then he should learn from the master but I doubt Brady is too interested in helping Mallet become great after he retires. That's the job of the QB coach.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

My favorite part is this, I guess it didn't help guys like Aaron Rodgers, or Steve Young. There are examples both ways.

Steve Young is a not a good comparison, He was a QB in awful situations in the USFL and with Tampa, sitting behind Joe Montana didnt help him ( I doubt it) playing on a great team with great weapons did. Steve Young had immense talent and alot of the football world knew it, so much so they traded joe montana and kept him. I dont think NE is going to trade Tom and roll Mallet, or let him walk a la Favre

 

[False Start]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

My favorite part is this, I guess it didn't help guys like Aaron Rodgers, or Steve Young. There are examples both ways.

Steve Young is a not a good comparison, He was a QB in awful situations in the USFL and with Tampa, sitting behind Joe Montana didnt help him ( I doubt it) playing on a great team with great weapons did. Steve Young had immense talent and alot of the football world knew it, so much so they traded joe montana and kept him. I dont think NE is going to trade Tom and roll Mallet, or let him walk a la Favre

So mentoring from a Championship and Hall of Fame QB doesn't matter? Any chance you can learn from a great mind of the game does help, how can it not?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

My favorite part is this, I guess it didn't help guys like Aaron Rodgers, or Steve Young. There are examples both ways.

Steve Young is a not a good comparison, He was a QB in awful situations in the USFL and with Tampa, sitting behind Joe Montana didnt help him ( I doubt it) playing on a great team with great weapons did. Steve Young had immense talent and alot of the football world knew it, so much so they traded joe montana and kept him. I dont think NE is going to trade Tom and roll Mallet, or let him walk a la Favre

So mentoring from a Championship and Hall of Fame QB doesn't matter? Any chance you can learn from a great mind of the game does help, how can it not?

quick, name all the Peyton manning backups worth a damn.

 

[cstu]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

My favorite part is this, I guess it didn't help guys like Aaron Rodgers, or Steve Young. There are examples both ways.

Steve Young is a not a good comparison, He was a QB in awful situations in the USFL and with Tampa, sitting behind Joe Montana didnt help him ( I doubt it) playing on a great team with great weapons did. Steve Young had immense talent and alot of the football world knew it, so much so they traded joe montana and kept him. I dont think NE is going to trade Tom and roll Mallet, or let him walk a la Favre

So mentoring from a Championship and Hall of Fame QB doesn't matter? Any chance you can learn from a great mind of the game does help, how can it not?

quick, name all the Peyton manning backups worth a damn.

Quick, name one who was ever considered a first round talent.

 

[Premier]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

 

[False Start]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Someone at NFL.com disagrees with you. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-mallett?id=2495443

Pick Analysis: Bill Belichick is masterful at picking up quality picks in the middle stages of the draft. Mallett is a legitimate first-round talent with the skills to be a star in the league. He has the unique opportunity to develop behind Tom Brady without the pressure of getting on the field immediately. This is an outstanding pick for the Patriots because it gives them tremendous long-term depth and flexibility at the quarterback position.

Someone at BleacherReport.com thought he was the best QB in the draft. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/681645-ryan-malletts-draft-stock-product-of-tough-grading-or-media-unfairness

Ryan Mallett is the best quarterback in the 2011 NFL Draft.

That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact, and every NFL general manager knows it.

This being the case, why is he projected by most to fall into the late first-round or possibly the second? Well, for that there are plenty of explanations you’ll hear.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

I agree

I do like Mallet as talent, and as much as the league is QB starved I figured someone would of traded for him last year if they thought he was the real deal. Especially considering how bad the 2013 incoming class at QB was. This incoming class is slightly better. Not sure what has changed from the Pats perspective, Im sure their price is sky high for him still. Will a team pay it? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[False Start]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

I agree

I do like Mallet as talent, and as much as the league is QB starved I figured someone would of traded for him last year if they thought he was the real deal. Especially considering how bad the 2013 incoming class at QB was. This incoming class is slightly better. Not sure what has changed from the Pats perspective, Im sure their price is sky high for him still. Will a team pay it? Maybe, maybe not.

Oh, here is someone else with an opinion on Ryan Mallett at ESPN.

Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett: It's bad enough for a first-round talent with an incredible arm to drop to Round 3 because of his off-the-field question marks, but he landed with the New England Patriots, a team dominated by Tom Brady. If Mallett would enter the witness protection program he would be more visible than he will be for the next four years. As a third-rounder, Mallett eventually will get a four-year contract, the same length as Brady's deal. Brady won't concede playing time, so Mallett will be lucky if he gets a cameo in one or two regular-season games. For the Patriots, it's a fine move. What's to lose? Mallett will get good coaching and maybe some team will see him in the preseason and decide to offer a high draft choice package to get him. You never know. Mallett thought he had convinced teams that he could be the quarterback of their franchise. They didn't buy his sales pitch. Welcome to the abyss.

I'm glad you guys agree that people on here are saying he is a first round talent to fit our narrative when it is beyond clear he was a 1st round talent in so many peoples eyes. I'm not certain he will be a star, but if you can get an healthy experienced NFL QB who had a 1st round grade who started his career and learning experience with a solid team foundation in New England for a 3rd round price in a year where he can be argued as a better QB than all 3 top prospects, why not do it? Because people on FBG don't think he will be a good fantasy QB?

 

[Premier]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Someone at NFL.com disagrees with you. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-mallett?id=2495443

Pick Analysis: Bill Belichick is masterful at picking up quality picks in the middle stages of the draft. Mallett is a legitimate first-round talent with the skills to be a star in the league. He has the unique opportunity to develop behind Tom Brady without the pressure of getting on the field immediately. This is an outstanding pick for the Patriots because it gives them tremendous long-term depth and flexibility at the quarterback position.

Someone at BleacherReport.com thought he was the best QB in the draft. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/681645-ryan-malletts-draft-stock-product-of-tough-grading-or-media-unfairness

Ryan Mallett is the best quarterback in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Thats not an opinion. Its a fact, and every NFL general manager knows it.

This being the case, why is he projected by most to fall into the late first-round or possibly the second? Well, for that there are plenty of explanations youll hear.

Bleacher report

Unless nfl writers are making draft picks and then trading them 3 years later, I could give a #### about their opinion.

The people that matter made their opinion heard and they passed on him not in the first-round, but in the second as well.

I repeat, THEY PASSED ON HIM IN THE SECOND ROUND AS WELL.

Not a first round talent, even if you now post the opinions of some reddit users too.

 

[MAC_32]

Bellichik and good drafting are not two things that go together. He opts for quantity over quality and a big part of that has to be him knowing he will have misses. A lot of them. As long as you have the qb and have enough hits you will he fine.

I think he does a better job evaluating NFLtalent on other teams and his own than the draft.

 

[False Start]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Someone at NFL.com disagrees with you. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-mallett?id=2495443

Pick Analysis: Bill Belichick is masterful at picking up quality picks in the middle stages of the draft. Mallett is a legitimate first-round talent with the skills to be a star in the league. He has the unique opportunity to develop behind Tom Brady without the pressure of getting on the field immediately. This is an outstanding pick for the Patriots because it gives them tremendous long-term depth and flexibility at the quarterback position.

Someone at BleacherReport.com thought he was the best QB in the draft. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/681645-ryan-malletts-draft-stock-product-of-tough-grading-or-media-unfairness

Ryan Mallett is the best quarterback in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Thats not an opinion. Its a fact, and every NFL general manager knows it.

This being the case, why is he projected by most to fall into the late first-round or possibly the second? Well, for that there are plenty of explanations youll hear.

Bleacher report

Unless nfl writers are making draft picks and then trading them 3 years later, I could give a #### about their opinion.

The people that matter made their opinion heard and they passed on him not in the first-round, but in the second as well.

I repeat, THEY PASSED ON HIM IN THE SECOND ROUND AS WELL.

Not a first round talent, even if you now post the opinions of some reddit users too.

So your opinion matters more than theirs? Talent matters and that is what we are grading his first round talent. Lattimore was a first round talent, why wasn't he drafted in the first? Other factors and Mallett had other factors.

 

[cstu]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Mike Brown wanted Mallett over Dalton, so obviously people did value him highly. The Patriots thought enough of Mallett to take him higher than both Russell Wilson and Foles were taken and they didn't have cocaine questions hanging over their head.

 

[Anarchy99]

So was Rob Gronkowski not a first round talent because he slid to the 2nd round due to injury concerns? How about going the other way. Was Tim Tebow a first round talent just because DEN drafted him there?

I still don't think Mallett will be the successor to Brady. And I doubt NE would trade him for a draft pick less than what they burned to get him in the first place. They still need a back up, so why give away Mallett and then have to start all over with someone else.

As I outlined earlier, the value of a back up on another team could be anywhere from two 2nd round picks to a 7th round pick to basically nothing. Jake Delhomme was an undrafted, unheralded backup for years in New Orleans then signed in CAR and made it to the SB in his first year with the Panthers. Trent Green was a low draft pick that couldn't stick with the Chargers. Weird things happen. Sometimes teams make really dumb moves and sometimes teams swing and miss on draft picks or discover a gem that no one saw coming.

Mallett hasn't shown much, if anything, in his NFL career. I don't think his stock is as high as the Patriots think it may be, nor do I think he's worthless and they couldn't get something for him.

I would guess after this year he goes somewhere else ### a free agent, and he will end up competing for a job somewhere. I doubt someone will sign him for big money and just hand him thestarting job.

 

[Anarchy99]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Mike Brown wanted Mallett over Dalton, so obviously people did value him highly. The Patriots thought enough of Mallett to take him higher than both Russell Wilson and Foles were taken and they didn't have cocaine questions hanging over their head.

Wilson and Foles were drafted in 2012. Mallett was taken in 2011.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Mike Brown wanted Mallett over Dalton, so obviously people did value him highly. The Patriots thought enough of Mallett to take him higher than both Russell Wilson and Foles were taken and they didn't have cocaine questions hanging over their head.

Wilson and Foles were drafted in 2012. Mallett was taken in 2011.

yeah WTF, i didnt think they were in the same draft, too lazy to look

 

[cstu]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Mike Brown wanted Mallett over Dalton, so obviously people did value him highly. The Patriots thought enough of Mallett to take him higher than both Russell Wilson and Foles were taken and they didn't have cocaine questions hanging over their head.

Wilson and Foles were drafted in 2012. Mallett was taken in 2011.

I realize that but my point was that despite serious character concerns he went rather high.

 

[msudaisy26]

The talk of not taking Watkins first overall if he lands with the Raiders is stupid, if you don't like Watkins that is fine. Look at this list of guys that went to bad spots and still produced

Josh Gordon

Zac Stacy

Kendall Wright

Keenan Allen

Alshon Jeffery

I am sure there is a lot more. Here is some guys that went to great spots and nothing happened for them.

David Wilson

Tavon Austin

Brandon Pettigrew

Robert Housler

You picked the most talented guys not where they land, talent will find its way to the top and situations change so quickly.

 

[False Start]

The talk of not taking Watkins first overall if he lands with the Raiders is stupid, if you don't like Watkins that is fine. Look at this list of guys that went to bad spots and still produced

Josh Gordon

Zac Stacy

Kendall Wright

Keenan Allen

Alshon Jeffery

I am sure there is a lot more. Here is some guys that went to great spots and nothing happened for them.

David Wilson

Tavon Austin

Brandon Pettigrew

Robert Housler

You picked the most talented guys not where they land, talent will find its way to the top and situations change so quickly.

Wrong thread maybe?

 

[Premier]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

Someone at NFL.com disagrees with you. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-mallett?id=2495443

Pick Analysis: Bill Belichick is masterful at picking up quality picks in the middle stages of the draft. Mallett is a legitimate first-round talent with the skills to be a star in the league. He has the unique opportunity to develop behind Tom Brady without the pressure of getting on the field immediately. This is an outstanding pick for the Patriots because it gives them tremendous long-term depth and flexibility at the quarterback position.

Someone at BleacherReport.com thought he was the best QB in the draft. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/681645-ryan-malletts-draft-stock-product-of-tough-grading-or-media-unfairness

Ryan Mallett is the best quarterback in the 2011 NFL Draft.

Thats not an opinion. Its a fact, and every NFL general manager knows it.

This being the case, why is he projected by most to fall into the late first-round or possibly the second? Well, for that there are plenty of explanations youll hear.

Bleacher report Unless nfl writers are making draft picks and then trading them 3 years later, I could give a #### about their opinion.

The people that matter made their opinion heard and they passed on him not in the first-round, but in the second as well.

I repeat, THEY PASSED ON HIM IN THE SECOND ROUND AS WELL.

Not a first round talent, even if you now post the opinions of some reddit users too.

So your opinion matters more than theirs? Talent matters and that is what we are grading his first round talent. Lattimore was a first round talent, why wasn't he drafted in the first? Other factors and Mallett had other factors.

My opinion doesn't matter at all. The opinions of the 32 teams who draft are what matters. As for your ridiculous Lattimore question, I'm sure you can figure out the answer and the difference between he and Mallet.

 

[massraider]

He's not a first-round talent. People keep saying that to fit their own narrative.

He's a third-round talent. That's where he was drafted. If he was a first-round talent, especially at QB, you can be damn well guaranteed that some team would have taken him there.

I agreeI do like Mallet as talent, and as much as the league is QB starved I figured someone would of traded for him last year if they thought he was the real deal. Especially considering how bad the 2013 incoming class at QB was. This incoming class is slightly better. Not sure what has changed from the Pats perspective, Im sure their price is sky high for him still. Will a team pay it? Maybe, maybe not.

Oh, here is someone else with an opinion on Ryan Mallett at ESPN.

Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett: It's bad enough for a first-round talent with an incredible arm to drop to Round 3 because of his off-the-field question marks, but he landed with the New England Patriots, a team dominated by Tom Brady. If Mallett would enter the witness protection program he would be more visible than he will be for the next four years. As a third-rounder, Mallett eventually will get a four-year contract, the same length as Brady's deal. Brady won't concede playing time, so Mallett will be lucky if he gets a cameo in one or two regular-season games. For the Patriots, it's a fine move. What's to lose? Mallett will get good coaching and maybe some team will see him in the preseason and decide to offer a high draft choice package to get him. You never know. Mallett thought he had convinced teams that he could be the quarterback of their franchise. They didn't buy his sales pitch. Welcome to the abyss.

I'm glad you guys agree that people on here are saying he is a first round talent to fit our narrative when it is beyond clear he was a 1st round talent in so many peoples eyes. I'm not certain he will be a star, but if you can get an healthy experienced NFL QB who had a 1st round grade who started his career and learning experience with a solid team foundation in New England for a 3rd round price in a year where he can be argued as a better QB than all 3 top prospects, why not do it? Because people on FBG don't think he will be a good fantasy QB?

Now he's a better prospect than the top three QB prospects?

Look, I don't dislike the guy. I don't know him, and didn't see him play in college. I just see a lot more cons than pros when considering whether or not a trade can happen. The number of teams that need a QB will shrink by three, maybe four (Carr) come draft day. The remaining teams will have to trade a premium pick (word from Rapaport is Pats want a 2nd) for a guy that has almost no tape, and very few practice reps, in three years.

In the back of their minds, they have to be thinking about AJ Feeley, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and the mac daddy stud of all recently traded for backups, Matt Schaub, who outperformed them all, probably because he was learning behind the great football mind of Mike Vick, I guess.

By the way, trading for another teams backup isn't the same as the Pack drafting Rodgers and developing him. Here's a hint: Favre actually works better as an example.

 

[cstu]

Now he's a better prospect than the top three QB prospects?

Look, I don't dislike the guy. I don't know him, and didn't see him play in college. I just see a lot more cons than pros when considering whether or not a trade can happen. The number of teams that need a QB will shrink by three, maybe four (Carr) come draft day. The remaining teams will have to trade a premium pick (word from Rapaport is Pats want a 2nd) for a guy that has almost no tape, and very few practice reps, in three years.

In the back of their minds, they have to be thinking about AJ Feeley, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and the mac daddy stud of all recently traded for backups, Matt Schaub, who outperformed them all, probably because he was learning behind the great football mind of Mike Vick, I guess.

By the way, trading for another teams backup isn't the same as the Pack drafting Rodgers and developing him. Here's a hint: Favre actually works better as an example.

Out of all of those examples, only one had a similar arm to Mallett. Besides Favre, Schaub had the next strongest.

 

[massraider]

Mallet is taller than all of them too. Are you suggesting all those guys failed because of arm strength?

 

[cstu]

Mallet is taller than all of them too. Are you suggesting all those guys failed because of arm strength?

It didn't help.

 

[msudaisy26]

Now he's a better prospect than the top three QB prospects?

Look, I don't dislike the guy. I don't know him, and didn't see him play in college. I just see a lot more cons than pros when considering whether or not a trade can happen. The number of teams that need a QB will shrink by three, maybe four (Carr) come draft day. The remaining teams will have to trade a premium pick (word from Rapaport is Pats want a 2nd) for a guy that has almost no tape, and very few practice reps, in three years.

In the back of their minds, they have to be thinking about AJ Feeley, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and the mac daddy stud of all recently traded for backups, Matt Schaub, who outperformed them all, probably because he was learning behind the great football mind of Mike Vick, I guess.

By the way, trading for another teams backup isn't the same as the Pack drafting Rodgers and developing him. Here's a hint: Favre actually works better as an example.

Out of all of those examples, only one had a similar arm to Mallett. Besides Favre, Schaub had the next strongest.

Not to mention all those guys were starters at one point, Mallet has yet to start a game. He compares better with Farve and Hasselback.

 

[DropKick]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

Maybe you like him too much... Really, is this your "old stand by" answer for people with a different opinion on players?

Anyway, of your handful of reasons, I think staying out of trouble is significant. He fell in the draft due to questions about maturity/behavior. Unfortunately, I think the real lack of game time will be a bigger deterrent.

 

[False Start]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

Maybe you like him too much... Really, is this your "old stand by" answer for people with a different opinion on players?

Anyway, of your handful of reasons, I think staying out of trouble is significant. He fell in the draft due to questions about maturity/behavior. Unfortunately, I think the real lack of game time will be a bigger deterrent.

I do like him, clearly. He hasn't been in trouble in years and his trouble was doing coke which I'll go out on a limb and say many other players in college and in the league do it, but since he got caught he has no talent and is a problem. Maybe he learned his lesson, is that possible? He is a talent that many and not just myself, thought was a first round talent.

Mallett had 62/19 TDs to INTs and 7,493 yards in his two years at Arkansas and Johnny Football had 63/22 for 7,820 yards at Texas A&M (Both SEC Schools) while Bridgewater had 72/24 with 9,817 yards in three years in a lesser conference. Very comparable stats and his size is better than all top prospects. We can talk about any players character like Hernandez, Sharper, Lynch and Rice. Christine Michael overslept at combine and his college coach question his attitude, dedication and said he was lazy. But people have no problem breaking their wrist to what his abilities can do.

Mallett is a good player, good enough to be given a first round grade by some and good enough to be drafted by a team with an already elite QB in the 3rd round of an NFL draft. Good enough to be discussed as a trade target for some NFL teams as a possible solution to a starting QB. The concerns seemed not to bother a 3 time Super Bowl winning coach.

 

[DropKick]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

You dont like him clearly.

Maybe you like him too much... Really, is this your "old stand by" answer for people with a different opinion on players?

Anyway, of your handful of reasons, I think staying out of trouble is significant. He fell in the draft due to questions about maturity/behavior. Unfortunately, I think the real lack of game time will be a bigger deterrent.

I do like him, clearly. He hasn't been in trouble in years and his trouble was doing coke which I'll go out on a limb and say many other players in college and in the league do it, but since he got caught he has no talent and is a problem. Maybe he learned his lesson, is that possible? He is a talent that many and not just myself, thought was a first round talent.

Mallett had 62/19 TDs to INTs and 7,493 yards in his two years at Arkansas and Johnny Football had 63/22 for 7,820 yards at Texas A&M (Both SEC Schools) while Bridgewater had 72/24 with 9,817 yards in three years in a lesser conference. Very comparable stats and his size is better than all top prospects. We can talk about any players character like Hernandez, Sharper, Lynch and Rice. Christine Michael overslept at combine and his college coach question his attitude, dedication and said he was lazy. But people have no problem breaking their wrist to what his abilities can do.

Mallett is a good player, good enough to be given a first round grade by some and good enough to be drafted by a team with an already elite QB in the 3rd round of an NFL draft. Good enough to be discussed as a trade target for some NFL teams as a possible solution to a starting QB. The concerns seemed not to bother a 3 time Super Bowl winning coach.

I was agreeing with you that a recent tracking record of staying clean and the maturity of a few extra years is good for him. Unfortunately, the lack of playing time is a negative - he jsust hasn't had a chance to prove anything at this level.

 

[Bronco Billy]

He has experience of learning behind a HoF QB,

This hasn't been proven to be particularly important.

first round graded talent,

Neither has this, come to think of it. There are of course, plenty of QBs that were ACTUALLY taken in the first round that weren't particularly good.

a clean track record since being in the NFL

This just points out that he had some clouds over his head in college. I am not giving credit out for what you are SUPPOSED to do. You don'tr give points for linebackers that don't stab anyone, or defensive tackles that stay in shape.

and the benefit that his contract is up after this year.

So someone can pay him like a starter before he's proven he's worthy of it?

He's a backup QB that happens to play for the Pats. Not sure why standing around watching Brady practice makes him so much better than every other good QBs backups, that don't amount to a hill of beans. Hey! He's kind of like Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel, except they actually played well in regular season games, before getting their chance to prove their complete lack of special qualities.

Not sure what your problem is with Mallet, but you're making some awfully definitive statements when you say yourself that he doesn't have a NFL resume yet. I guess he would have had to displace Brady as NE's starter to prove anything to you.

The days up to and including day 2 of the draft ought to prove interesting in regard to his disposition. Someone is going to be left without a chair in this year's QB derby in the draft.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think the Patriots know he is gone after this year, and they are usually smart and proactive when trading players to early rather then too late. (Randy Moss, Vrabel, Cassell, Seymour.) I think they go in the draft asking for a 2nd, if they don't get it they will take a 3rd. For the record I think they will get a 2nd from someone.

 

[Mingooch]

As a Pats fan, I hope they do get that second.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I've never been impressed with him. I'd be thrilled if the NE got a 2nd for him.

 

[amnesiac]

it seems unlikely to me, but would the Browns' two third round picks be the right price to acquire Mallett?

or a third and another pick?

they've got a lot of picks and recently seem reluctant to spend a top pick on a QB.

 

[msudaisy26]

it seems unlikely to me, but would the Browns' two third round picks be the right price to acquire Mallett?

or a third and another pick?

they've got a lot of picks and recently seem reluctant to spend a top pick on a QB.

I think if the Browns offered 2 third round picks the Patriots would take it.

If I were the Browns I would actually rather keep the 2 thirds and trade them a second. Not because I am a Patriot fan but because this draft is so deep. If the guys the Browns are targeting for the third are flying off the boards they could still trade those 2 thirds for a second and get one of their guys. It is a gamble but it could pay off.

 

[False Start]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

 

[cstu]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I've said all along that the Texans would be stupid not to get Clowney and Mallett. Clowney is a once in a generation player and IMO Mallett at the very least will be serviceable.

 

[JFS171]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I've said all along that the Texans would be stupid not to get Clowney and Mallett. Clowney is a once in a generation player and IMO Mallett at the very least will be serviceable.

I agree with you both.

BUT... we're forgetting the Pats are basically guaranteed a third if they keep Mallet through this year, you know... compensatory picks and all. They'll probably be the first team in history to net a compensatory second!

 

[False Start]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I've said all along that the Texans would be stupid not to get Clowney and Mallett. Clowney is a once in a generation player and IMO Mallett at the very least will be serviceable.

I went back and watch a lot of his tape from college and preseason. He has the makings. Strong arm, good progressions and a presence in the pocket with the ability to step up and make a throw with knowing he is taking a big hit. I remember one game from when he played the Jags in 2011 preseason when he was raw when he had a great game and made a lot of good throws reads and roll outs that you see good NFL QBs make. O'Brien loves this kid, you get that from watching him on the sidelines with Mallett. I'll except all the lashings I'll take if I'm wrong, but this kid is going to be good and is better than any QB is this class and has already shown he is able to handle the NFL and its pressures. If Cousins is getting some looks from other teams you bet your tail Mallett is.

I believe any team in fantasy looking to get a QB with upside for next to nothing if you have Manning, Brees, or ironically enough Brady, buy this guy for a 3rd or 3rd next year before he is traded, because if he goes to Houston with this talent on offense around him, that 3rd will be impossible. He knows the offense O'Brien will run and has Andre and Hopkins with Foster carrying and a solid Defense to help keep his mistakes from costing him.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I hope your right, I just have to say (again) I was dissapointed in how he played last pre-season, I expected to see more development. He may very well turn out to be a good qb. I would like to see NE get a 3 for him if they can, before he moves on next year and they get nothing.

It will be interesting so see whether or not O'Brien believes in him, I understand Lombardi loved him and thought maybe cle would make a run at him last year or this year (until Lombardi got canned).

 

[cstu]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I've said all along that the Texans would be stupid not to get Clowney and Mallett. Clowney is a once in a generation player and IMO Mallett at the very least will be serviceable.

I agree with you both.

BUT... we're forgetting the Pats are basically guaranteed a third if they keep Mallet through this year, you know... compensatory picks and all. They'll probably be the first team in history to net a compensatory second!

They won't get a comp pick until 2016, who knows if Brady will even be playing then. BB knows his window is closing and will get something now for Mallett.

 

[JFS171]

I believe the Texans are all over this kid. O'Brien knows the price and he has a great relationship with the Patriots to make this deal happen. But if he tips his hand now the other people behind them in the draft will know what they are up to for certain and will be inclined to offer less for the first pick as I think the Texans will still look to trade down in a deep draft if they can get great value.

But in all seriousness would you rather have Clowney and Mallett or one of the Top 3 QB prospects and not get Clowney? OR trade down to 1.8 in a flip with the Vikings and get more picks and still get Mallett for a 4th too? Thats what he will go for since the Vikings won't need a QB now and a 4th is all they could get. $th is nice value in a deep draft, they don't trade him they will get nothing. Writing is on the wall if you are a fan or not.

I've said all along that the Texans would be stupid not to get Clowney and Mallett. Clowney is a once in a generation player and IMO Mallett at the very least will be serviceable.

I agree with you both.

BUT... we're forgetting the Pats are basically guaranteed a third if they keep Mallet through this year, you know... compensatory picks and all. They'll probably be the first team in history to net a compensatory second!

They won't get a comp pick until 2016, who knows if Brady will even be playing then. BB knows his window is closing and will get something now for Mallett.

You missed the exchange earlier in this thread… I argued the same thing you just did. My comment was completely sarcastic.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

BB knows his window is closing and will get something now for Mallett.

What does this mean? Belichick wants to get a draft pick for Mallett now so he can develop an offensive player for when Brady retires?