Ryan Williams (AZ) - RB (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

You've got to think this guy is a sneaky play for next year. Beanie Wells has proven to not be durable and AZ's o-line was surprisingly good at run blocking last season.

Definitely worth a late round flyer in redraft.

You can probably pry him away for cheap in Dynasty.

This guy's talent is evident and it just depends if you think he can recover from his injury. The opportunity is there and if he comes back in similar form he will be a steal.

Thoughts?

 

[Eminence]

I'd recommend trading for him just before your draft while everyone starts eye-balling the shiny new toys and forget this guy was a Top-5 Rookie pick last year.

This is a great opportunity to get this talent.

 

[loqutis]

I took him #4 in my rookie draft last year, and won't be giving him away for cheap. I need a RB on my squad, that's why I drafted him. I'm not ready to bail on him already.

 

[Eminence]

I took him #4 in my rookie draft last year, and won't be giving him away for cheap. I need a RB on my squad, that's why I drafted him. I'm not ready to bail on him already.

Theoretically speaking, what value would you look to get for this guy. Would:(Mid-second Round Pick + a player like Stevie Johnson or Anquan Boldin) loosen the grease on the wheels for you?

 

[jacobo_moses]

I have Ray Rice and Mark Ingram. Ryan WIlliams is my 3rd RB in a 32 team Dynasty league. I'm thinking about trading him for a LB. But his value is so low right now I probably need to wait until training camp and preseason.

 

[DoubleG]

Beanie Wells has proven to not be durable and AZ's o-line was surprisingly good at run blocking last season.

Beanie Wells started 14 of 16 games last season. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of RB in the NFL that started 15 or 16 games.During that stretch he rushed for over 1k yards, averaged 4.3 YPC, and scored 10 TDs. 4.3 aint to shabby for an every down RB (it was a higher YPC than Blount, Helu, Mendy, Lynch, CJ and many others). My point here is that in his first season as the starter, Wells missed only 2 starts (one on the final game of the year, which for the Cards meant nothing) and had a very good year - despite playing with a knee injury most of the season. 4.3 is top 15 amoung RBs - 10 rushing TDs is top 10.

You can probably pry him away for cheap in Dynasty.

No - not really. Many people that drafted him in dynasty did so on the assumption that he would preplace Wells as the starter. Those that held him still hope he will.

The opportunity is there and if he comes back in similar form he will be a steal.

Two things about this statement:1) The assumption that Wis will hand the starting job to Williams (or even realistically give him a chance to take it from Wells) - is a pretty big assumption, imho. Wells played through injury and played well. Wis has said a number of times that Wells did a great job for them this year.2) The size of the "if" before the "comes back in similar fashion" should be much larger. His injury was fairly severe. He certainly may be 100% - but even if he's 90% - that 10% could be the difference between looking "elite quick" (which he did, pre-injury) and looking like a decent scatback/change of pace 3rd down RB. I, for one, think that Wells starts the season as the starter and at best Williams is a change of pace guy. Unless Williams is miraculously 100%, performs great, stays healthy himself AND Wells doesn't look as good as he did this past season - I just don't see much changing from there.Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Probably not.

 

[Warhogs]

I too disagree with the assessment that you can pry him away cheaply in a dynasty league. Owners who have held him have an early pick and a year of holding him on their roster invested in him.

 

[Eminence]

Beanie Wells has proven to not be durable and AZ's o-line was surprisingly good at run blocking last season.

Beanie Wells started 14 of 16 games last season. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of RB in the NFL that started 15 or 16 games.During that stretch he rushed for over 1k yards, averaged 4.3 YPC, and scored 10 TDs. 4.3 aint to shabby for an every down RB (it was a higher YPC than Blount, Helu, Mendy, Lynch, CJ and many others). My point here is that in his first season as the starter, Wells missed only 2 starts (one on the final game of the year, which for the Cards meant nothing) and had a very good year - despite playing with a knee injury most of the season. 4.3 is top 15 amoung RBs - 10 rushing TDs is top 10.

You can probably pry him away for cheap in Dynasty.

No - not really. Many people that drafted him in dynasty did so on the assumption that he would preplace Wells as the starter. Those that held him still hope he will.

The opportunity is there and if he comes back in similar form he will be a steal.

Two things about this statement:1) The assumption that Wis will hand the starting job to Williams (or even realistically give him a chance to take it from Wells) - is a pretty big assumption, imho. Wells played through injury and played well. Wis has said a number of times that Wells did a great job for them this year.

2) The size of the "if" before the "comes back in similar fashion" should be much larger. His injury was fairly severe. He certainly may be 100% - but even if he's 90% - that 10% could be the difference between looking "elite quick" (which he did, pre-injury) and looking like a decent scatback/change of pace 3rd down RB.

I, for one, think that Wells starts the season as the starter and at best Williams is a change of pace guy. Unless Williams is miraculously 100%, performs great, stays healthy himself AND Wells doesn't look as good as he did this past season - I just don't see much changing from there.

Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Probably not.

I'm an AZ homer, so I'll go on to explain a little bit more. While Beanie DID play 14 of 16 games; he looked absolutely pitiful during some of them. You could absolutely tell he was not 100%. Williams is a guy we took in the 2nd Round with glaring holes elsewhere than RB (We had Wells + Hightower). It's not that I don't believe Wells has value going forward, it's just that there were many times this season that:1.) Wells was on the field playing at like 60 - 70%.

2.) LSH or Chester Taylor were in the backfield.

When Wells is healthy, the guy is an absolute MACHINE however he gets dinged up quite easily. This is easily going to be a timeshare an be-it Beanie's habit of spraining this or tweaking that; I'll take the Pass-Catching Ryan Williams out of the two.

If Ryan Williams was healthy last season, Beanie would have been sat more than 14 of 16 games.

 

[Eminence]

Look at Wells' game logs:

http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He started the first two-games and averaged: 5.0 + 6.6 YPC.

He sat his third game and came back in Week 4 and averaged 5.1 YPC.

After that Wells posted the following YPC:

3.0

3.5

3.8

2.0

2.7

4.1

8.7 (228 Yard Game)

3.4

1.8

3.4

3.8

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

 

[DoubleG]

I'm an AZ homer, so I'll go on to explain a little bit more. While Beanie DID play 14 of 16 games; he looked absolutely pitiful during some of them. You could absolutely tell he was not 100%. Williams is a guy we took in the 2nd Round with glaring holes elsewhere than RB (We had Wells + Hightower). It's not that I don't believe Wells has value going forward, it's just that there were many times this season that:

1.) Wells was on the field playing at like 60 - 70%.

2.) LSH or Chester Taylor were in the backfield.

When Wells is healthy, the guy is an absolute MACHINE however he gets dinged up quite easily. This is easily going to be a timeshare an be-it Beanie's habit of spraining this or tweaking that; I'll take the Pass-Catching Ryan Williams out of the two.

If Ryan Williams was healthy last season, Beanie would have been sat more than 14 of 16 games.

I agree with everything you typed here (almost) - especially the bolded.The only thing I disagree with is your preference. Since I see Wells getting most of the erarly down work and also getting the goal line work, I'd prefer Wells of the two. Wells is still only 23. This could end up looking similar to the Jacobs/Bradshaw situation (at best for Williams, IMHO - as that assumes he's healthy). Wells proved his value by the fact that he DID play many games at 60-70% and still managed to average 4.3 YPC.

I don't think our views are too far apart. You think Williams will come back healthier than I do. I think Wells will likely get more touches than you think he will.

Certainly if Williams is 100%, he is going to eat into Wells' touches - I just don't think he will be.

 

[todisco1]

I took him #4 in my rookie draft last year, and won't be giving him away for cheap. I need a RB on my squad, that's why I drafted him. I'm not ready to bail on him already.

Theoretically speaking, what value would you look to get for this guy. Would:(Mid-second Round Pick + a player like Stevie Johnson or Anquan Boldin) loosen the grease on the wheels for you?

Steve Johnson is worth much more than Ryan Williams IMO. Williams is a crap shoot at this point because of his injury (and Wells is a good RB), Johnson is a good solid WR.

 

[Warpig]

I see a timeshare next year with Ryan and Beanie. They will let Beanie be the early down guy, and Ryan will be the 3rd down/passing down guy. Ryan has more explosion than Beanie (assuming his knee heals properly).

Probably come down to a 60/40 split, maybe 55/45 split favoring Beanie. Williams will have more receptions and possibly more yards than Beanie, but Beanie will probably end up with more TD's.

Yet another RBBC in the NFL us fantasy players have to deal with.

 

[Shutout]

Beanie Wells has proven to not be durable and AZ's o-line was surprisingly good at run blocking last season.

Beanie Wells started 14 of 16 games last season. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of RB in the NFL that started 15 or 16 games.During that stretch he rushed for over 1k yards, averaged 4.3 YPC, and scored 10 TDs. 4.3 aint to shabby for an every down RB (it was a higher YPC than Blount, Helu, Mendy, Lynch, CJ and many others). My point here is that in his first season as the starter, Wells missed only 2 starts (one on the final game of the year, which for the Cards meant nothing) and had a very good year - despite playing with a knee injury most of the season. 4.3 is top 15 amoung RBs - 10 rushing TDs is top 10.

You can probably pry him away for cheap in Dynasty.

No - not really. Many people that drafted him in dynasty did so on the assumption that he would preplace Wells as the starter. Those that held him still hope he will.

The opportunity is there and if he comes back in similar form he will be a steal.

Two things about this statement:1) The assumption that Wis will hand the starting job to Williams (or even realistically give him a chance to take it from Wells) - is a pretty big assumption, imho. Wells played through injury and played well. Wis has said a number of times that Wells did a great job for them this year.2) The size of the "if" before the "comes back in similar fashion" should be much larger. His injury was fairly severe. He certainly may be 100% - but even if he's 90% - that 10% could be the difference between looking "elite quick" (which he did, pre-injury) and looking like a decent scatback/change of pace 3rd down RB. I, for one, think that Wells starts the season as the starter and at best Williams is a change of pace guy. Unless Williams is miraculously 100%, performs great, stays healthy himself AND Wells doesn't look as good as he did this past season - I just don't see much changing from there.Is it possible? Sure. Likely? Probably not.

Well stated on all points. I don't think it can be underscored enough of how much praise Wiz gave Wells for toughing it out this year. I am almost certain we will find out down the road that his injury was more than just something nagging. It seems like a lot of people who post on Wells like to gloss over and assume that he isn't this and that but, as you said, he was just as capable or moreso than a lot of RBs in the league. I guess when a guy gets type cast, it sticks unfairly. Like when people want to talk up Ryan Wiliams and make their point by mentioning that Wells can't stay healthy. And Ryan Wiliams has? exactly which one of these guys has played in the NFL and which one hasn't? That was a very difficult to overcome type injury with Williams. I don't think we can assume he shows up in three months and appears surperior to Wells.All of this seems to me to be a lot of posting by people that are trying to salvage their investment they have in Williams and has a lot less to do with an unbiased assessment of how Wells really performed. Actually, it sounds a lot to me like the Foster/Tate posts last season. People tried to move heaven and Earth to justify getting that pesky Foster out of Tate's way but that just isn't how it works in real life. Wells did a lot for the real life Cardinas this season and can likely do a lot more.

 

[thriftyrocker]

I see a timeshare next year with Ryan and Beanie. They will let Beanie be the early down guy, and Ryan will be the 3rd down/passing down guy. Ryan has more explosion than Beanie (assuming his knee heals properly). Probably come down to a 60/40 split, maybe 55/45 split favoring Beanie. Williams will have more receptions and possibly more yards than Beanie, but Beanie will probably end up with more TD's.Yet another RBBC in the NFL us fantasy players have to deal with.

I see Beanie starting the year 80/20 and getting almost all running downs. I think Williams has a very low chance of breaking out given it's a tendon injury and is just as likely to miss significant time as Beanie. He can make it more of a timeshare by looking better than Wells, but in general I think it's still Wells' job. It is closer to Foster/Tate than Felix/Murray IMO (Wells is closer to Tate than Foster in talent; but I think Wells is pretty entrenched). It will be a contract year for Wells and he has shown some fight (re-injured the knee in the STL game but kept playing) and I expect him to not go down lightly.This gets a lot more interesting if the Cardinals switch QBs.

 

[jacobo_moses]

As a Ryan Williams dynasty owner and a realist. I have to agree with this assesment of 2012 for the backfield. Well he could still have some decent games in a split I think. :(

I see a timeshare next year with Ryan and Beanie. They will let Beanie be the early down guy, and Ryan will be the 3rd down/passing down guy. Ryan has more explosion than Beanie (assuming his knee heals properly). Probably come down to a 60/40 split, maybe 55/45 split favoring Beanie. Williams will have more receptions and possibly more yards than Beanie, but Beanie will probably end up with more TD's.Yet another RBBC in the NFL us fantasy players have to deal with.

 

[jonboltz]

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

If the guy that puts up 1000 yards, 10 TDs, while gutting through an injury and playing in 14 of 16 games gets this type of response, what does a guy that gets injured and puts up 0 yards, 0 tds, and 0 games played get?

 

[Eminence]

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

If the guy that puts up 1000 yards, 10 TDs, while gutting through an injury and playing in 14 of 16 games gets this type of response, what does a guy that gets injured and puts up 0 yards, 0 tds, and 0 games played get?

I quoted his YPC (which you conveniently deleted out of my quoted post, I've posted my real post which you've cherry-picked below.), which obvious weren't starter quality and didn't really help his team win games. His other stats otherwise were very good but tailed off at the end of the year due to injury. If you'd read my posts you'd understand I'm making a claim WHY Williams will receive the ball because Wells can't stay healthy; not that Wells doesn't have talent.Please read my other posts and get back to me.

Look at Wells' game logs:

http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He started the first two-games and averaged: 5.0 + 6.6 YPC.

He sat his third game and came back in Week 4 and averaged 5.1 YPC.

After that Wells posted the following YPC:

3.0

3.5

3.8

2.0

2.7

4.1

8.7 (228 Yard Game)

3.4

1.8

3.4

3.8

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

EDIT: How many Arizona games did you watch this year?

 

[jonboltz]

I quoted his YPC (which you conveniently deleted out of my quoted post, I've posted my real post which you've cherry-picked below.), which obvious weren't starter quality and didn't really help his team win games. His other stats otherwise were very good but tailed off at the end of the year due to injury. If you'd read my posts you'd understand I'm making a claim WHY Williams will receive the ball because Wells can't stay healthy; not that Wells doesn't have talent.Please read my other posts and get back to me.

I've cut the quotes down (as I did here) because nobody needs to have a wall-of-text going on in this thread. His YPC was 4.3, which is certainly "starter quality". Every RB in the NFL is going to have high YPC games and low YPC games, nobody should expect a 4.3 YPC RB to have every game right around that mark.Despite playing through an injury, there were only a few games last year that Beanie truly didn't help the team-- home vs SF and Rams. Case can be made that vs Pitt when he got injured (though he put up 40+ yards in the half he played) and @SF, where the run was abandoned early (probably in conjunction with him nursing the injury).My main point I was bringing up is that you are arguing is odd to me because you say that Beanie can't stay healthy and will lose carries to a guy that is even worse at staying healthy...

 

[Hoosier16]

People are also neglecting Williams' 2010 season with Virginia Tech. He wasn't exactly a picture of health and was outplayed by both Evans and Wilson. Expecting him to be healthy and outplay Wells next year may be a bit optimistic.

 

[jacobo_moses]

I will say this. All of you on here complaining about Ryan WIlliams not being the model of health. He only played 2 years in College. His Freshmen year he was healthy. Sophomore year he had a nagging hamstring issue a lot of the season. But thats all we have to go on. Doesn't exactly prove to me he can't or can stay healthy.

The Ruptured Patella tendon in his knee. That is a flukely injury that is very, very uncommon. So I'm going to chalk that up to as a fluke. Now if he comes up lame with a different injury this year. Then I think you can make that claim. But basing it on his short college career and a flukey Kneecap tendon rupture is a little premature I would think.

 

[Hoosier16]

I will say this. All of you on here complaining about Ryan WIlliams not being the model of health. He only played 2 years in College. His Freshmen year he was healthy. Sophomore year he had a nagging hamstring issue a lot of the season. But thats all we have to go on. Doesn't exactly prove to me he can't or can stay healthy. The Ruptured Patella tendon in his knee. That is a flukely injury that is very, very uncommon. So I'm going to chalk that up to as a fluke. Now if he comes up lame with a different injury this year. Then I think you can make that claim. But basing it on his short college career and a flukey Kneecap tendon rupture is a little premature I would think.

I think you read more into my statement than I wrote. He's had 4 years since high school. He redshirted one year, had one great healthy year, had one not so great and not so healthy year, and had one completely injured year. I didn't say he was injury prone. I only stated that expecting him to be healthier and better than Wells was optimistic.

 

[DansRams]

As an owner of Wells and Williams who invested the 1.04 in Williams last season, I see things the following way.

Next year - Wells will probably put up similar numbers next year - I think he will be in a little better health, but Williams will take some touches

2013 - Williams will take over as the main back of an RBBC with Wells playing a supporting role (if he even re-signs)

All of that said...If I could get a 1.03 this year for Wells and Williams, I would take it in a heartbeat.

 

[jonboltz]

2013 - Williams will take over as the main back of an RBBC with Wells playing a supporting role (if he even re-signs)

Pure hunch?

 

[DansRams]

2013 - Williams will take over as the main back of an RBBC with Wells playing a supporting role (if he even re-signs)

Pure hunch?

Any prediction for 2013 has to be hunch/opinion....but my logic is based on the fact Williams will be 2 yrs removed from the injury and that I think he is the better all around back (why AZ drafted him in the first place). Can I be sure he recovers enough...no...but I think he will.

 

[cstu]

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

EDIT: How many Arizona games did you watch this year?

You gotta admit he looks terrible catching the ball. I think they make a nice combo (not for fantasy obviously) but Wells' contract is up after 2012 (the team has an option in 2013) and Williams could get the full-time job if he leaves.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Look at Wells' game logs:

http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He started the first two-games and averaged: 5.0 + 6.6 YPC.

He sat his third game and came back in Week 4 and averaged 5.1 YPC.

After that Wells posted the following YPC:

3.0

3.5

3.8

2.0

2.7

4.1

8.7 (228 Yard Game)

3.4

1.8

3.4

3.8

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

This, my friends, is the most ridiculously biased post I've ever seen in my entire life... O yea...just take out 3 of his best games of the year lol.

 

[Dawg Pound 69]

Heard Whisenhunt praising Wells after the season on Sirius. Said he had nearly identical numbers as Lynch and he did it basically on one healthy leg. Also praised his toughness. Based on his head coach loving him and his fantasy owners seemingly being down on him, I'll gladly buy him at a discount.

 

[Eminence]

Look at Wells' game logs:

http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He started the first two-games and averaged: 5.0 + 6.6 YPC.

He sat his third game and came back in Week 4 and averaged 5.1 YPC.

After that Wells posted the following YPC:

3.0

3.5

3.8

2.0

2.7

4.1

8.7 (228 Yard Game)

3.4

1.8

3.4

3.8

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

This, my friends, is the most ridiculously biased post I've ever seen in my entire life... O yea...just take out 3 of his best games of the year lol.

I'm not telling you to throw out his games. I'm showing it's no coincidence his best YPC came his first couple of gangs when he was healthy. I'm showing his is injury-prone and will never see a full load as an AZ Cardinal ever again.He failed to shed his injury-prone label this season.

Heard Whisenhunt praising Wells after the season on Sirius. Said he had nearly identical numbers as Lynch and he did it basically on one healthy leg. Also praised his toughness. Based on his head coach loving him and his fantasy owners seemingly being down on him, I'll gladly buy him at a discount.

You realize if Williams was healthy this season, Wells would have seen significantly less carries. They drafted Williams in the 2nd for a reason. Behind Wells the cupboard was bare this season.This will easily be Beanie's career year as a Cardinal.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Last season I saw Williams as a huge threat. With his horrific injury and Wells performance this year against 8 man fronts I have no confidence in Williams ever amounting to much more than a 6-7 carries, 2-3 catches per game back.

 

[Catbird]

I see it as a health question. In the preseason, the reports were that Williams clearly looked like the more talented back in his limited time before the injury. All reports I read had coaches and teammates saying Williams was quicker, more sudden and tougher to bring down in traffic. Add pass catching ability and he sounds like the guy you want starting. But if he isn't heathy, all the talent on the planet won't buy him carries. When and if Williams is 100%, I think he starts to take over what begins as a Wells-dominated time share. Until Williams is 100%, which I am not sure will be this year (or ever, from this injury) a healthy Beanie keeps the starts and carries. Both fully healthy in dynasty, give me Ryan. But its unknown whether this will ever be or stay the case, and that makes both of these guys big questionmarks. With the uncertainty, I don't see either having a solid starter value going forward, but since both have solo starter upside, I think that makes them both more expensive than their actual values.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Last season I saw Williams as a huge threat. With his horrific injury and Wells performance this year against 8 man fronts I have no confidence in Williams ever amounting to much more than a 6-7 carries, 2-3 catches per game back.

Ever?

 

[Multiple Scores]

Last season I saw Williams as a huge threat. With his horrific injury and Wells performance this year against 8 man fronts I have no confidence in Williams ever amounting to much more than a 6-7 carries, 2-3 catches per game back.

Ever?

Not with Wells if he's injury free. So, not for now.

 

[Multiple Scores]

What is a fair rookie pick to give for Williams?

 

[Multiple Scores]

Over/Under on Ryan Williams at rookie pick 1.12?

 

[DansRams]

Over/Under on Ryan Williams at rookie pick 1.12?

I was thinking 1.11 or 1.12..so we are thinking the same level of value...that said, at this point I don't see a rookie in this years draft at 1.11/1.12 I would trade him for, although that could change post combine/draft

 

[beef]

What is a fair rookie pick to give for Williams?

Too much difference between the ask and bid price right now. I'd bid 1.10-1.12 max, but owners of Ryan Williams are asking for 1.04-1.06 in my leagues.

 

[cvnpoka]

Look at Wells' game logs:

http://www.nfl.com/player/beaniewells/79661/gamelogs

He started the first two-games and averaged: 5.0 + 6.6 YPC.

He sat his third game and came back in Week 4 and averaged 5.1 YPC.

After that Wells posted the following YPC:

3.0

3.5

3.8

2.0

2.7

4.1

8.7 (228 Yard Game)

3.4

1.8

3.4

3.8

Those are NOT starting RB numbers and the guy was clearly banged up. He cannot stay healthy and is pitiful out of the backfield.

EDIT: All 10 of Beanie Wells' touchdowns came from the oppositions RZ.

This, my friends, is the most ridiculously biased post I've ever seen in my entire life... O yea...just take out 3 of his best games of the year lol.

its also not fair to hold his performance versus the 49ers against him as they were just a wall. he also played the seahawks 2 other teams and they were very stout. and im fairly sure i could scour the game logs of many other good to great starting caliber nfl rbs and find similar stretches.