Ryan Williams (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

There is an excellent spotlight thread on the first page with lots of solid info. I suggest looking in there.

There are excellent spotlight threads on every player from Knowshonn Moreno to adrian Peterson on these boards. Just because something is typed doesn't make it true. they can't all be future stars..and aren't. Again, I'm asking a very straight forward question: Where have you seen this talent on display recently, in enough volume to be able to draw a reasonable conclusion that this guy has what it takes to play at this level at the high level being discussed? You can't say because a guy took 5 carries in the last year that it's a done deal. Lots of guys come back from injuries (and some when they aren't even injured) and look good in the pre-season or look good with a handful of plays. But how has this conclusion been drawn without seeing a guy play a real workload against a real defense?I know I probably sound like I'm challenging the idea of Williams. I'm not. I'm challenging the process that led us here because if it exists and this information is out there beyond just speculation on some people's parts, I want to see it and make my own conclusions. But as of right now, I haven't seen this kid run more that one season in the last three.

So is your conclusion that Beanie is the bell cow in Arizona and Williams is best drafted as a handcuff?

No, I think its reasonable to say he maintains a 65% or carry as the greater part of what will likely be some sort of RBBC; as it is with most teams that don't have an unquestioned stud. So, for reference based purely on last year's numbers as a team that ran the ball 378 times, 65% puts him at about 245 carries...pretty much right where he was last year I think. With some luck and a better defense, the Cards might run the ball slightly more...that's reasonable.In general, I don't see a big shift and that's what I was posting in regards to. A lot of posts seems to be talking about Beanie basically getting swept to the wayside.

That sounds more like a "yes". You see Beanie as the unquestioned #1 and Williams is the backup and unquestioned guy to pick up if Beanie gets hurt.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I guess I never specified why I think how I do and why I posted this thread. 1st: the mysterious "microscopic" knee surgery. If you look it up you will see beanie is just now getting around to playing level aka pre season game forml. The time he was out matches the time table of a small micro fracture knee surgery. This suspicion was boosted as he changed his story of the procedure and now it's still a mystery of what was operated on; a variety of doctors have said its odd and fits no rine table for a simple "clean" even our very own fbg's mentions it. 2nd: a new oc has made a new offensive scheme, both of which are new to beanie and Ryan. This means that both start with a clean slate (many said wells fits the cards style) this style is very fluid at this point and whether changes such as the screen pass are incorporated need to be addressed, kolb loves the check down while Skelton loves going deep with fitz, especially so with check down if/when the line collapses and the qb needs to dish the rock, a multiple facuted rb like Williams would thrive there (extra bump in Ppr). While it is valid that we have no nfl sample to go on, pre season has stated Williams has impressed. For those who say whiz has said only positive things about wells, so have they about Williams and his work ethic. I never said beanie would go away but rather asked if he could do better than wells. I feel he will with beanie carving out a role as we progress. We know what he is capable of last year but I want to see how the rehab has effected him this year. In the end both sides have valid points but I wanted to shed light on a rb4 with upside who offers better value than beanie at this time. I picked him off of waiver wires. Ps this is from a phone so sorry for any run on sentences Or spelling errors

On a serious note, I think the Williams/Wells situation is one of the most unclear in the league.You have a team that has historically stuggled to run the ball well, lost one of the starting tackles and looks like it has two bad QBs. For a RB, this has to be one of the bottom 5 places to has to be carrying the ball.Regarding the two RBs themelves, they both had good college careers, great measurables and were drafted highly. Flip a coin as to who is the better runner in a vacuum. Add in the fact both have had injury issues ant it becomes even less clear.To summarize, you have a talented, but unproven RB coming off a rookie season lost to injury on what looks like a bad team with another young, talented, but injury prone RB to compete with. If you believe you really know which way this situation will go, you are incorrect.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Remember way back in 2007 and 2008 people were talking about this big 25 year old RB who was coming off back to back 1000 yards seasons. In 2007 he had 1200 combined yards and 6 td's and then he followed that up with 1100 combined yards and 15 td's in 2008. He was big, tough to tackle, good speed for a big guy, but he always was dinged up, had suspect hands and just did not make a lot of people miss or offer dynamic play making ability. That RB was none other than Brandon Jacobs. Now don't get me wrong being a Giants fan I know Jacobs served a purpose on offense as he did well in what he was asked to do in his roles in NY. However the offense looked much more dynamic and versatile with a rb like Bradshaw taking the bulk of the load. Bradshaw had a 1500 yard combined yardage season with 8 td's in 2010 and was a rb that was good at everything. Bradshaw's on worst enemey though was injury bug himself. He has glass ankles and his durability has cost him some great numbers.I liken the Cardinals running back situation to that of what the Giants had. Beanie Wells is the Brandon Jacobs where he is not going to be complete phased out just yet and will still have a role for the time being, but it will be clear that Arizona will be much better on offense with a guy like Williams being the main guy.

I don't feel that Jacobs and Beanie are all that similar.

+1

I am not saying Beanie and Jacobs are carbon copies of each other. I am saying the situations are similar and their useage as NFL players have/will be similar. Jacobs had a younger 3 down back in Bradshaw behind him and now Beanie has a 3 down back in Williams behind him.Jacobs and Beanie are both bigger backs (Jacobs obviously much bigger in weight) who are not involved much in the passing game. Jacobs and Beanie are guys best suited for first and second down work and obviously due to size they seem like the go to guys for goaline work as well. I don't know how this is arguable as this is how both have been used so far in their careers. Beanie is entering his fourth year in the leauge. He has never caught more than 12 passes in a single year. In fact he has 27 career receptions. His useage will never be one that is used in the receiving game or much on 3rd downs.If Williams proves to do just as much as Beanie and perhaps more with his carries he will end up with more touches and pass Beanie as the feature back sooner than later. Arizona for this year are going to use both backs although we don't know the percentage of plays and touches for each guy. But you have to admit that if Beanie was to be injured you would see a lot more fantasy points put up by Williams than if it were the other way around.Williams has 3 down back potential as well as being a guy that can be successful in gl work too. He still has to prove that he can be but that is what makes him more enticing than Beanie. Beanie's upside is Turner. Williams upside is Rice, Foster, Shady, MJD. All guys that get gl work, run on first and second down and stay in and get receptions on 3rd downs.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I guess I never specified why I think how I do and why I posted this thread. 1st: the mysterious "microscopic" knee surgery. If you look it up you will see beanie is just now getting around to playing level aka pre season game forml. The time he was out matches the time table of a small micro fracture knee surgery. This suspicion was boosted as he changed his story of the procedure and now it's still a mystery of what was operated on; a variety of doctors have said its odd and fits no rine table for a simple "clean" even our very own fbg's mentions it. 2nd: a new oc has made a new offensive scheme, both of which are new to beanie and Ryan. This means that both start with a clean slate (many said wells fits the cards style) this style is very fluid at this point and whether changes such as the screen pass are incorporated need to be addressed, kolb loves the check down while Skelton loves going deep with fitz, especially so with check down if/when the line collapses and the qb needs to dish the rock, a multiple facuted rb like Williams would thrive there (extra bump in Ppr). While it is valid that we have no nfl sample to go on, pre season has stated Williams has impressed. For those who say whiz has said only positive things about wells, so have they about Williams and his work ethic. I never said beanie would go away but rather asked if he could do better than wells. I feel he will with beanie carving out a role as we progress. We know what he is capable of last year but I want to see how the rehab has effected him this year. In the end both sides have valid points but I wanted to shed light on a rb4 with upside who offers better value than beanie at this time. I picked him off of waiver wires. Ps this is from a phone so sorry for any run on sentences Or spelling errors

Good posting.Williams, quite simply, can create more yardage out of the poor o-line blocking than Beanie can. His quickness and elusiveness are on a completely different level than Beanie and I think that will become more apparent as the season progresses. And he isn't a scat back specialist. Like DeAngelo and Bradshaw, he actually runs with deceptive power considering his size. He's got enough to be a three down back if that opportunity becomes available. For all his size, Beanie actually doesn't run near as strong as his rep from college predicted. So, IMHO, he can't counter Williams's elusiveness with power when the o-line isn't doing much to help him out.Add to that this mystery surgery he had which has kept him off the field, and I see a starter who is vulnerable to losing touches this year because the guy behind him is, ironically, healthier and can do more with his touches.But hey, there are people willing to call their shot and back Williams this year despite his limited action. Sitting back and pretending that someone has to "prove" something about Williams is just silly. You have your eyes even if you don't have stats on a page. If you aren't seeing it, fine. Ignore Williams and assume Beanie in 2012 is going to continue what he did in 2011 when Williams was on IR.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.

He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.

Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

 

[MAC_32]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

Trying to go based off memory here because my notes were not nearly as detailed on last year's class as they usually are, real life got in the way, but I was lukewarm on him as a prospect because speed was his best element but I never saw it when he was on the field. At least difference making ability. The more I read up on him from April to August the more I became sold that he was playing hurt which effected his speed and that he was back to full-go. Now, is he the type that can't maintain his speed after a few nicks? or was he really that hurt? I don't know, but I want to find out with him on my team given his price.

 

[biju]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.

He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.

Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

He was drafted 1.05 in my dynasty rookie draft and was a high 2nd round pick in the NFL draft. I think people were pretty high on him before this year. Maybe this is just more of people being wary of Beanie as he didn't look good last night outside of one run (although you could put that on the O-line too).

 

[Steelers4Life]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

Couldn't agree more. People are making a big deal of one run last night by Williams last night because he made a nice cut through a hole.Williams is a good RB, but few considered him really special before the draft. I also think people really underestimate how good Beanie is when he's healthy because he's been injured so much.Neither are going to be consistently good if the line doesn't block well though.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

People love shiny new toys. Williams, Quizz Rodgers, Doug Martin, Trent Richardson, etc.

 

[MAC_32]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

Couldn't agree more. People are making a big deal of one run last night by Williams last night because he made a nice cut through a hole.Williams is a good RB, but few considered him really special before the draft. I also think people really underestimate how good Beanie is when he's healthy because he's been injured so much.Neither are going to be consistently good if the line doesn't block well though.

Looking through Beanie's 3 year career I can count on one hand the amount of quality starts he's had when owners would have started him. Weeks 10 and 11 his rookie year (he looked good vs. Chicago the week before), week 12 vs. St Louis last year, and maybe weeks 1 and 2 - although he wasn't in a lot of people's starting plans to open the season. He just isn't trustworthy. He has good games when you don't expect it (Giants and Baltimore last year) and often struggles when you do expect it. You never know when he's going to play, when he's going to try to play and then get pulled/pull himself from the game, when he sounds iffy then blows up, when he sounds fine then does nothing, and so on. These signs were there in college but ignored by many and they're still there now.I'm not getting myself worked up about Williams based off how he looked in a preseason game, but that play does support the reports from the practice field. This year and pre-injury last year. I know what I have in Beanie, I don't in Williams. If Williams does what I think he can do he is the feature back this year, even on a team with a lousy QB and o line, that has value.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

Couldn't agree more. People are making a big deal of one run last night by Williams last night because he made a nice cut through a hole.Williams is a good RB, but few considered him really special before the draft. I also think people really underestimate how good Beanie is when he's healthy because he's been injured so much.Neither are going to be consistently good if the line doesn't block well though.

Williams freshman year in college was crazy good.Here is a refresher of his college career via wikipedia....As a freshman at Virginia Tech in 2008, Williams was redshirted. As a redshirt freshman in 2009, Williams took over as starting running back after starter Darren Evans suffered a season-ending ACL injury. Through thirteen games he rushed for 1,655 yards on 293 carries, scored 21 touchdowns, and broke multiple Virginia Tech and ACC rushing records in the process - including Virginia Tech's single season rushing yards record, the ACC single season rushing touchdown record, and the ACC single season touchdown record with 22 touchdowns. He began the 2010 season as a starter but injured his right hamstring in a game against East Carolina University and was out for four games before coming back against Duke. On January 9, 2011, it was announced that Williams will give up his final 2 years of NCAA eligibility to make himself available for the 2011 NFL Draft.My take... Even though Willams was injured (hamstring) and only had 110 rushing attempts as a sophmore he was still taken as the second rb in the 2011 NFL draft behind only Mark Ingram. Talent has never been the issue with Williams as he is loaded with it. It has been about staying healthy for him. He is that unique 3 down back type of RB as I keep stressing, who has the blend of everything you want in being a great NFL RB.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Williams looked like a future star in 2009 for sure, but that's a long time ago, and this time last year his kneecap was halfway up his thigh. Plus, for fantasy purposes, the situation is awful. One guy will need an overwhelming majority of the touches in order to be even vaguely startable in most FF leagues, and that isn't likely for either Wells or Williams unless the other guy is out.

 

[Amused to Death]

It's interesting to me how Williams' perception vaulted into becoming a mini Jonathan Stewart, where he's seen as a guy with obvious talent missing only opportunity, seemingly for no reason.

He was an OK prospect coming out of Virginia Tech that most people were fairly down on after a disappointing final season there. He has a few good practices as a rookie and then tears his patella tendon.

Now, he comes back from that injury and is magically seen as a guy with immense talent that just needs a shot at the starting job to be elite. Where did that transformation come from? Was it all about those few practices prior to the injury last year, because people weren't nearly as high on his "obvious talent" heading into last year's draft as they are now. That perception has somehow changed with nothing (other than a devastating injury) really happening.

He was drafted 1.05 in my dynasty rookie draft and was a high 2nd round pick in the NFL draft. I think people were pretty high on him before this year. Maybe this is just more of people being wary of Beanie as he didn't look good last night outside of one run (although you could put that on the O-line too).

He was hurt before our rookie draft last year, but my memory is that he was projected as a top-5 rookie dynasty pick. I don't think the hype is new but renewed.