What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Saint's Do The Patriots One Better (1 Viewer)

S

smackdaddies

Footballguy
ESPN is set to report

According to sources cited by ESPN's Outside the Lines, soon-to-be suspended Saints GM Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that enabled him to eavesdrop on opposing coaches. The device was apparently installed to allow a listener to monitor the New Orleans coaching staff but was allegedly altered to allow Loomis audio access to visiting teams during three seasons spanning 2002-2004.

 
'smackdaddies said:
ESPN is set to report

According to sources cited by ESPN's Outside the Lines, soon-to-be suspended Saints GM Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that enabled him to eavesdrop on opposing coaches. The device was apparently installed to allow a listener to monitor the New Orleans coaching staff but was allegedly altered to allow Loomis audio access to visiting teams during three seasons spanning 2002-2004.
Click to expand...
By the time pre-season is over, the whole franchise might be suspended at this rate...
 
Gee, you mean the evil, reprehensible Patriots aren't the only ones who would bend or break the rules? :coffee: :rolleyes:

 
'((Morpheus)) said:
'Kenny Powers said:
Coaches filming playcalling/signals >>> GM listening to playcalling
Click to expand...
really? I think you've got it backwards...
Click to expand...
How? What is the GM really learning here? Game ends and Loomis goes to the locker room and tells Haslett he heard a lot of Albatrosses and Omahas and guys ran deep a lot? Now if the GM was recording the audio, then I would agree because you could play it alongside the game tape afterwards, but as far as I know they havent said anything of that nature.
 
'golfguy said:
from 2002-2004, I think he must have misheard a lot, because it certainly didn't help them much.
Click to expand...
Actually, there was a stat on ESPN for points scored and points allowed for the first and second halves of games at the Super Dome. There was a 6 point total swing from the first half to the second (total of the lesser points allowed and the additional points scored, on average).
 
'Kenny Powers said:
'((Morpheus)) said:
'Kenny Powers said:
Coaches filming playcalling/signals >>> GM listening to playcalling
Click to expand...
really? I think you've got it backwards...
Click to expand...
How? What is the GM really learning here? Game ends and Loomis goes to the locker room and tells Haslett he heard a lot of Albatrosses and Omahas and guys ran deep a lot? Now if the GM was recording the audio, then I would agree because you could play it alongside the game tape afterwards, but as far as I know they havent said anything of that nature.
Click to expand...
we have no clue what exactly is/was said into those headsets.god I hope this comes out true, the commish will drop an absolute franchise killer punishment on them.

 
'mozzy84 said:
'Kenny Powers said:
'((Morpheus)) said:
'Kenny Powers said:
Coaches filming playcalling/signals >>> GM listening to playcalling
Click to expand...
really? I think you've got it backwards...
Click to expand...
How? What is the GM really learning here? Game ends and Loomis goes to the locker room and tells Haslett he heard a lot of Albatrosses and Omahas and guys ran deep a lot? Now if the GM was recording the audio, then I would agree because you could play it alongside the game tape afterwards, but as far as I know they havent said anything of that nature.
Click to expand...
we have no clue what exactly is/was said into those headsets.god I hope this comes out true, the commish will drop an absolute franchise killer punishment on them.
Click to expand...
Lol, Brees still unsigned, if true and punishment is handed down before he signs I wonder if he will refuse to sign his tender. It only gets better for Brees IMO, he either gets paid a ton of money to play with the Aints or he plays for a better team (for the same amount of money).
 
'Kenny Powers said:
'((Morpheus)) said:
'Kenny Powers said:
Coaches filming playcalling/signals >>> GM listening to playcalling
Click to expand...
really? I think you've got it backwards...
Click to expand...
How? What is the GM really learning here? Game ends and Loomis goes to the locker room and tells Haslett he heard a lot of Albatrosses and Omahas and guys ran deep a lot? Now if the GM was recording the audio, then I would agree because you could play it alongside the game tape afterwards, but as far as I know they havent said anything of that nature.
Click to expand...
I don't care at this point if he broadcast it to the coaches or kept it to himself and had a sing along with it.But let's be realistic, any number of things discussed between the coaches in the booth and on the sideline could be helpful to hear. "Their safety keeps looking in the backfield, let's set him up for play action." "We need to slow down Strahan, start calling more plays that keep the TE or RB in for extra protection." "It looks from up here like their left tackle is in a two point stance on nearly every pass play, let our defensive front know."
 
For the record all this is alleged and there's no evidence whatsoever that this actually happened. ESPN itself is unsure if anything at all actually happened.

[QUOTE='NYTimes]ESPN said that it could not determine if Loomis ever used the device and that the system was dismantled after Hurricane Katrina damaged the Superdome in 2005.
[/QUOTE]And according to Loomis and the Saints organization they will be pursuing legal recourse against ESPN over these allegations
According to New Orleans television station WWL – not to be confused with WWL, as in the Worldwide Leader, ESPN – Saints vice president of communications Greg Bensel deems the story “1000 percent false” and “completely inaccurate.” Bensel claims ESPN “refused… to provide us evidence to support their allegations.” With that, the Saints are now considering “all legal recourse regarding these false allegations.”
Click to expand...
And building on what some other people here have already said
As ESPN’s Bill Polian (pictured) said when asked to explain the edge that the Saints obtained doing this, “There’s something missing here. I don’t know what kind of competitive advantage you could get. Mickey would have to know the verbiage of every other opposing team in order to translate, and then he would have to do it instantly and find some way to communicate with his coaching staff, and get it down to the field in time to be useful. That would be very difficult to do, in my opinion.”Polian’s right, and he has no natural incentive to help the team that beat his Colts for a Super Bowl that culminated a season in which bounties allegedly were used. If Loomis knew what the opposing coaches were saying, there would have been no way to translate that information into something that could be used to the Saints’ benefit.Even if the conversations were being taped and later given to the coaching staff, there’s no way to take that information and turn it into anything that could be used in a future game.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
'ThePittbully said:
For the record all this is alleged and there's no evidence whatsoever that this actually happened.
Click to expand...
Exactly. My guess is this will likely amount to nothing but an accusation. One that the Saints deny 1000%.Of course, for the record, that's how bounty gate started. That's how Loomis and everyone covered up the Vicodin rift. The perception that this is a dirty franchise is not going to go away anytime soon. This is not Goodell's fault or ESPN's or anyone else's but their own. What a waste.
 
ESPN

The U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Louisiana was told Friday that New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that had been secretly re-wired to enable him to eavesdrop on visiting coaching staffs for nearly three NFL seasons, "Outside the Lines" has learned.
Click to expand...
Jim Letten, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, acknowledged being told of the allegations Friday. Sources said he has briefed the FBI in New Orleans about Loomis' alleged activity. If proved, the allegations could be both a violation of NFL rules and potentially a federal crime, according to legal sources. The federal Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of 1986 prohibits any person from intercepting communications from another person using an electronic or mechanical device.
Click to expand...
The sources said when Loomis took his seat during home games, then in the front row of box No. 4 in the 300 level of the Superdome's north side, he was able to plug an earpiece into a jack that was under the desk in front of him. The earpiece was not unlike those used to listen to inexpensive transistor radios, the sources said. With the earpiece in place, Loomis could then toggle back and forth with a switch that he controlled, enabling him to listen to the game-day communications of either the opposing offensive or defensive coaches.

Also underneath the desk in front of Loomis, said the sources, was a metal box that contained two belt packs similar to those worn around the waists of NFL head coaches during games. The packs powered the listening device available to Loomis, which was, according to sources, hard-wired to the audio feed of the opposing coaches.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They're re-opening the JFK files, double checking the captain's log on the Titanic, and this Friday they will dig under the Superdome in search for Jimmy Hoffa.
 
'cobalt_27 said:
'ThePittbully said:
For the record all this is alleged and there's no evidence whatsoever that this actually happened.
Click to expand...
Exactly. My guess is this will likely amount to nothing but an accusation. One that the Saints deny 1000%.
Click to expand...
The Saints deserve the benefit of the doubt here. They've been so honest and straight forward regarding allegations in the past. If they say it didn't happen then I believe them. :hophead:
 
'matttyl said:
'golfguy said:
from 2002-2004, I think he must have misheard a lot, because it certainly didn't help them much.
Click to expand...
Actually, there was a stat on ESPN for points scored and points allowed for the first and second halves of games at the Super Dome. There was a 6 point total swing from the first half to the second (total of the lesser points allowed and the additional points scored, on average).
Click to expand...
Also, the season just before this was suppose to have taken place they went 7-9, and the season just after (not in the Super Dome at all) they went 3-13. So they had a better record when this was suppose to have taken place...and the numbers show that when at home they scored more 2nd half points than first half points (listening to defensive playcalls) as well as allowed fewer second half points than first half (listening to offensive playcalls). Going one step further -2001 home record - 3-52002 home record - 4-42003 home record - 5-32004 home record - 3-5 (maybe it no longer was working, so they stopped)Also, and I know this is a huge stretch here....but in 2004 New Orleans LOST AT HOME to both Tampa Bay and Carolina (weeks 5 and 13). They then played both on the road later in the season and WON both. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that the Saints recorded the playcalling of their opponents when at home to better game plan for the later road games? (For reference there was only one other time over these 3 years that the Saints played a divisional opponent on the road after already playing them at home - Atlanta in 2002 when they were swept and Atlanta went onto the playoffs).
 
'Amused to Death said:
The Saints deserve the benefit of the doubt here. They've been so honest and straight forward regarding allegations in the past. If they say it didn't happen then I believe them.
Click to expand...
We're all free to believe what we want. Fact is: the accuser will have to do a lot better than provide his say-so if anyone in power is going to act on this.
 
'matttyl said:
'matttyl said:
'golfguy said:
from 2002-2004, I think he must have misheard a lot, because it certainly didn't help them much.
Click to expand...
Actually, there was a stat on ESPN for points scored and points allowed for the first and second halves of games at the Super Dome. There was a 6 point total swing from the first half to the second (total of the lesser points allowed and the additional points scored, on average).
Click to expand...
Also, the season just before this was suppose to have taken place they went 7-9, and the season just after (not in the Super Dome at all) they went 3-13. So they had a better record when this was suppose to have taken place...and the numbers show that when at home they scored more 2nd half points than first half points (listening to defensive playcalls) as well as allowed fewer second half points than first half (listening to offensive playcalls).
Click to expand...
The swing from 7-9 to 3-13 might have more to do with the team's city being wiped out by the biggest natural disaster in the history of our country, playing every single game on the road, staying in hotels the whole year, and having training camp and practices in parking lots. Or, you could be right and it could be because of some hearsay system of listening to opposing game plans that opposing GMs have stated have no real possibility of helping the Saints in real time.Herp derp.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Go to this link and listen to the feed titled:

4-24-12 6:45am Chick Foret

Tommy talks to WWL legal analyst Chick Foret about the latest allegations against the Saints

 
'LC512 said:
The swing from 7-9 to 3-13 might have more to do with the team's city being wiped out by the biggest natural disaster in the history of our country, playing every single game on the road, staying in hotels the whole year, and having training camp and practices in parking lots. Or, you could be right and it could be because of some hearsay system of listening to opposing game plans that opposing GMs have stated have no real possibility of helping the Saints in real time.Herp derp.
Click to expand...
I did say that they they didn't play a single game in the Dome, and I totally understand that it was because of Katrina. Also, I think you mean the swing from 8-8 to 3-13, the 7-9 season was the season prior to the accusations. Katrina, though, doesn't explain the numbers from 2001 (losing season) to 2002-2004 (two even and one winning season), nor the 1st half to 2nd half numbers during the 2002-2004 seasons, nor steadily improving home records from 2001-2003.
 
'matttyl said:
'LC512 said:
The swing from 7-9 to 3-13 might have more to do with the team's city being wiped out by the biggest natural disaster in the history of our country, playing every single game on the road, staying in hotels the whole year, and having training camp and practices in parking lots. Or, you could be right and it could be because of some hearsay system of listening to opposing game plans that opposing GMs have stated have no real possibility of helping the Saints in real time.

Herp derp.
Click to expand...
I did say that they they didn't play a single game in the Dome, and I totally understand that it was because of Katrina. Also, I think you mean the swing from 8-8 to 3-13, the 7-9 season was the season prior to the accusations. Katrina, though, doesn't explain the numbers from 2001 (losing season) to 2002-2004 (two even and one winning season), nor the 1st half to 2nd half numbers during the 2002-2004 seasons, nor steadily improving home records from 2001-2003.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I watched all of those seasons and the improvement clearly had nothing to do with playcalling. Those Saints teams always started slow and sloppy, particularly Aaron Brooks,then made these mad rallies late in the season to try to make the playoffs, but always fell short.Also, I suggest you read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance

 
'LC512 said:
Also, I suggest you read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance
Click to expand...
I agree that this could just be "variance", but I do find it interesting that they went from winning 37.5% of their home games to winning 62.5% of their home games during the time that this was alleged to have occurred. I agree that a one game swing makes these number look deceiving, but the fact is that it's there. I understand that it's a rather small sample size, but it's all we have.Does "variance" also explain the 1st half to 2nd half swings of points scored AND points allowed?

(Allegedly) bugging the opponents coaches would have been done to do 3 things - help you score more points, help you allow fewer points, and help you win more games. All three of these things occurred, and I don't think you can just use "variance" as the reason for it.

 
'Kenny Powers said:
'((Morpheus)) said:
'Kenny Powers said:
Coaches filming playcalling/signals >>> GM listening to playcalling
Click to expand...
really? I think you've got it backwards...
Click to expand...
How? What is the GM really learning here? Game ends and Loomis goes to the locker room and tells Haslett he heard a lot of Albatrosses and Omahas and guys ran deep a lot? Now if the GM was recording the audio, then I would agree because you could play it alongside the game tape afterwards, but as far as I know they havent said anything of that nature.
Click to expand...
You are aware that stealing signals has always been legal, just videotaping them is not.Eavesdropping was never legal.
 
'matttyl said:
I agree that this could just be "variance", but I do find it interesting that they went from winning 37.5% of their home games to winning 62.5% of their home games during the time that this was alleged to have occurred. I agree that a one game swing makes these number look deceiving, but the fact is that it's there. I understand that it's a rather small sample size, but it's all we have.Does "variance" also explain the 1st half to 2nd half swings of points scored AND points allowed?
Click to expand...
I don't think ANY of these numbers posted are indicative of anything.
 
I think it's a waste of time trying to examine team records in this. It's one thing to note late hits and otherwise unusual play in a game where the Saints words themselves suggested there was a bounty on a player.

It's a lot more difficult to pick out from all the factors that affect one's record over several seasons, the impact of one factor that may or may not have occurred.

It's far from a foregone conclusion yet this actually happened. Far different than the bounty situation where we heard about it at the end of an investigation that uncovered hard evidence. Given how long ago it was, it's not likely there will be any physical evidence, anything beyond individual testimony on it. Which would mean we'll probably need several people independently coming forward about it to have confidence if it happened.

Edit to add: The same goes for looking at scoring by half.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'Doug B said:
'matttyl said:
I agree that this could just be "variance", but I do find it interesting that they went from winning 37.5% of their home games to winning 62.5% of their home games during the time that this was alleged to have occurred. I agree that a one game swing makes these number look deceiving, but the fact is that it's there. I understand that it's a rather small sample size, but it's all we have.Does "variance" also explain the 1st half to 2nd half swings of points scored AND points allowed?
Click to expand...
I don't think ANY of these numbers posted are indicative of anything.
Click to expand...
Well how about these numbers (not complied by me)?Points Scored by Opponents: 1st half vs 2nd half99-01: 11 pts in 1st half, 11 pts in 2nd half02-04: 14 pts in 1st half, 9 pts in 2nd half (a 36% decrease in 2nd half scoring)05-07: 12 pts in 1st half, 11 pts in 2nd half (a 8% decrease in 2nd half scoring)Points Scored by the Saints: 1st half vs 2nd half99-01: 11 pts in 1st half, 8 pts in 2nd half (a 27% decrease in 2nd half scoring)02-04: 11 pts in 1st half, 12 pts in 2nd half (a 9% increase in 2nd half scoring)05-07: 11 pts in 1st half, 10 pts in 2nd half (a 9% decrease in 2nd half scoring)Does seem to be an abnormality over that 3 year stretch, even in looking at just those 3 years alone. Then when compared to the 3 year periods just before and just after, it's even more compelling.
 
'matttyl said:
Does seem to be an abnormality over that 3 year stretch, even in looking at just those 3 years alone. Then when compared to the 3 year periods just before and just after, it's even more compelling.
Click to expand...
Not so fast. I'd want to see similar stats for all NFL teams over the same time frames. How do I know that a five-point advantage from first half to second half is all that unusual?
 
I've heard from multiple sources now, all outside the saints organization, that doing something like this would be close to impossible for a multitude of reasons, the main one being the NFL frequency coordinator would have known something was going on.

 
Also from the lawyers we've heard from it will be extremely hard for anyone to prove any listening went on, and equally hard for the Saints to prove defamation in their own suit they plan to launch.

 
'Doug B said:
'matttyl said:
Does seem to be an abnormality over that 3 year stretch, even in looking at just those 3 years alone. Then when compared to the 3 year periods just before and just after, it's even more compelling.
Click to expand...
Not so fast. I'd want to see similar stats for all NFL teams over the same time frames. How do I know that a five-point advantage from first half to second half is all that unusual?
Click to expand...
it seems pretty unusual for the saints when they weren't eavesdropping.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hipple Long Ware & Peete
FWIW The NSA IS READING/SAVING ur emails/calls/texts etc
2
Replies
62
Views
5K
kevzilla
kevzilla

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top