Saints offensive problems (1 Viewer)

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Considering I don't follow them that closely, i'm curious as to what's going on offensively in New Orleans.

A couple of things I think could be contributing to the problem:

1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.

2) Jamaal Brown- Is trading him away affecting this offense greatly???

 

[packersfan]

1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.

I think Bush's absence is huge. So many people focus on what he isn't (a 25-carry a game RB) they ignore what he is and that's a matchup nightmare. So much of what the Saints do successfully is predicated on defenses focusing on Bush. People look at his touches and ignore the fact he is typically on the field more than any other Saints' RB. I don't think you can remove that vital element and expect to continue firing on all cylinders. Plus, yesterday it also showed how much they miss Pierre Thomas too. Betts had two costly mistakes, the kinds of which Thomas isn't prone to making. It's hard for a lot of teams to operate successfully on offense when they're down to their third- and fourth-string RBs.

 

[Slevin Kelevra]

Considering I don't follow them that closely, i'm curious as to what's going on offensively in New Orleans.A couple of things I think could be contributing to the problem:1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.2) Jamaal Brown- Is trading him away affecting this offense greatly???

3) Brees has strained left MCL

 

[saintfool]

the playcalling has been suspect all year. they certainly miss reggie and pierre in that they are playmakers. i'll be interested to see how the saints - brees especially - handle this adversity.

 

[Football Critic]

the playcalling has been suspect all year. they certainly miss reggie and pierre in that they are playmakers. i'll be interested to see how the saints - brees especially - handle this adversity.

They are putting the game in Ladell Betts and Chris Ivorys hand a little too much, they are calling the game as if they have Reggie and Pierre. BS aside I do not like them running the ball at all, when Brees dont drop back I get worried.

 

[Cripster]

Here is what I see.

1. Bush comments above are correct.

2. Last year the defense produced an unbelievable numbers of turnovers. Saints had a short field early leads. This year, they have not had great field position and defenses don't have to take gambles. They are sitting in coverage. Pierre Thomas injury makes this even more likely.

3. Colston, Henderson and meacham are getting no separation whatsoever.

 

[saintfool]

Here is what I see.1. Bush comments above are correct.2. Last year the defense produced an unbelievable numbers of turnovers. Saints had a short field early leads. This year, they have not had great field position and defenses don't have to take gambles. They are sitting in coverage. Pierre Thomas injury makes this even more likely.3. Colston, Henderson and meacham are getting no separation whatsoever.

colston is not a burner. he's not going to get separation but instead use his body to create space. meachem is just getting back into form following the toe injury. devery is back to being hit-or-miss.brees seems to be struggling for whatever reason. it started before the knee injury and isn't getting any better. if defenses are taking the deep ball away then we need to punish them. you do that by running the ball and forcing the safeties to play closer the line of scrimmage. devery and meach can then blow by their man. the running game can set up the passing game. i don't think i have seen much of any play action from the offense. the defense played really well yesterday. the offense gave the cards three TD's.

 

[grouse]

I appreciate the desire to want to pinpoint what exactly are the Saints offensive problems. But doing so, IMO, may be getting a little too granular for something that can be easily explained on a more macro level. They are the defending Super Bowl champs, and they are having a typical post-Super Bowl season. Everything is tougher for them, and that magic, that spark, is just not there like it was in 2009. The 2009 Saints scored 30+ points nine times and four of those were 40+. We can analyze each moving part, but it may simply be that this year's Saints will struggle all season to find the consistency and explosiveness they had a year ago. Not to say they won't have their moments, but if our expectations are that the Saints will eventually rip off a bunch of 30+ point games on offense and offer a smorgasbord of fantasy upside, it probably isn't going to happen this year.

 

[guderian]

I don't think that missing Bush is as big a problem as it seems. I heard that the Saints average something like 60 yards/game more when he's out. In my opinion, it's because Payton becomes a little too enamored with him.

The play calling this year has also been head scratching. Early this year it was too many screen/swing passes to the RBs and not enough down field to open it up for those shorter passes to work. Yesterday, 17 of our 61 plays were directed at Ladell Betts including 3 in one series inside the 10 where we came away with zero points. I think that Payton gets too cute and thinks that it's all about the play calling and that a guy that we added to the roster recently can get the job done when we have proven play makers elsewhere on the roster. I mean, Ladell Betts was our #1 offensive option yesterday???

 

[guderian]

brees seems to be struggling for whatever reason. it started before the knee injury and isn't getting any better. if defenses are taking the deep ball away then we need to punish them. you do that by running the ball and forcing the safeties to play closer the line of scrimmage. devery and meach can then blow by their man. the running game can set up the passing game. i don't think i have seen much of any play action from the offense.

I don't know what the problem is with Brees. He threw one INT this year as he was falling to the ground and yesterday--with no pressure--he flings one off his back foot and it naturally comes up short and is intercepted. It's hard to expect him to play flawless, but he didn't make those mistakes last year.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

I appreciate the desire to want to pinpoint what exactly are the Saints offensive problems. But doing so, IMO, may be getting a little too granular for something that can be easily explained on a more macro level. They are the defending Super Bowl champs, and they are having a typical post-Super Bowl season. Everything is tougher for them, and that magic, that spark, is just not there like it was in 2009. The 2009 Saints scored 30+ points nine times and four of those were 40+. We can analyze each moving part, but it may simply be that this year's Saints will struggle all season to find the consistency and explosiveness they had a year ago. Not to say they won't have their moments, but if our expectations are that the Saints will eventually rip off a bunch of 30+ point games on offense and offer a smorgasbord of fantasy upside, it probably isn't going to happen this year.

I think this is probably closer to the truth than anything like injuries or schematic problems. Super Bowl hangover is in full effect. They don't have the same sense of urgency that they did last year. Yesterday, they led the Cards 10-0 in the first quarter. Now, last year's team would've gone for the throat with a 10-0 lead, but this year they sat back and took it for granted.Maybe they will rediscover their "want to" at some point during the season. Maybe not, who knows.

 

[az_prof]

Here is what I see.

1. Bush comments above are correct.

2. Last year the defense produced an unbelievable numbers of turnovers. Saints had a short field early leads. This year, they have not had great field position and defenses don't have to take gambles. They are sitting in coverage. Pierre Thomas injury makes this even more likely.

3. Colston, Henderson and meacham are getting no separation whatsoever.

Meachem got separation on his TD yesterday. Personally, I think they need to move Henderson to the fourth spot, and start Colston and Meachem on the ouside and Moore in the slot.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...chem-50-yard-TD

But truth be told, it is hard to have a good passing game with NO threat of a run game. They need a starting RB and don't have a healthy one right now. That's the problem.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

Personally, I think they need to move Henderson to the fourth spot,

Henderson is the only wideout on the team who gets open with any consistency. Why would you move him down in the lineup?

 

[az_prof]

Personally, I think they need to move Henderson to the fourth spot,

Henderson is the only wideout on the team who gets open with any consistency. Why would you move him down in the lineup?

He drops the ball.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

He drops the ball.

Not really, not in a couple years. Colston has more drops than Henderson does these days.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

the o-line is giving up a lot more pressure this season, and I'm not sure why since it's the same guys.

 

[Pnishthm]

Another thing I would like to note is the red zone struggles...one thing I have always seen work around the goal is the back shoulder pass to Colston. It seems like the Saints complete this around 85% of the time when inside the 5. They have not tried it once this year. The way Colston can position his body it's an almost unstopable play. I think the Saints have had more short FG attempts this year already then all of last year.

 

[Gadabout]

To me, it's all about the playcalling and the lack of a killer instinct.

The injuries hurt a lot, yeah, but so far the plays that have been called just aren't jiving with what Payton has called in the last 70 or so games.

And I could swear that yesterday, at one point in the 4th quarter, Payton had a look on his face that I had never seen. He looked defeated out there.

 

[SproutDaddy]

He drops the ball.

Not really, not in a couple years. Colston has more drops than Henderson does these days.

Not from what Ive seen. Colston is the only one who makes catches consistently outside of Shockey.

 

[Breesisdaman]

It is all about execution. The Wr's dropping passes getting them picked off, Brees not being quite as sharp as I have seen him in the past, They get in the redzone 4 times and convert once? Different ball game if they get the TD's to go along with the yards. They need to get back to basics and clean this stuff up. They have missed the running game for sure but much of this stuff is just getting back to the fundamentals of football. I think the Saints will recover and perhaps this lackluster start is Superbowl hangover and over confidence. I wouldn't rule that out any way.

 

[nola]

Ivory and Betts have been ok, though they could work on holding onto the football.

The WRs are dropping too many. The O-Line is underperforming.

Biggest change: Brees is making some terrible decisions with the football. Really, really bad choices.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

Not from what Ive seen. Colston is the only one who makes catches consistently outside of Shockey.

Then you haven't been watching very closely, and I'll leave it at that. Colston has had the dropsies for two years now. I'm sure you can do the research on your own, but it's certainly verifiable info.

 

[plyka]

Considering I don't follow them that closely, i'm curious as to what's going on offensively in New Orleans.A couple of things I think could be contributing to the problem:1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.2) Jamaal Brown- Is trading him away affecting this offense greatly???

There are two major problems with the Saints offense:1) Reggie Bush is gone. Stats sometimes do not tell the story, and this is the case with Reggie. Despite not getting too many touches, Bush is without doubt the most lethal option every time he steps on the field. He has receiver capabilities coming out of the backfield and can turn nothing into something huge. Add this to his running capabilities, and he is a lethal option. The reason stats sometimes don't tell the story is because every option on the field affects the defense. In basketball, you may look at a Kobe Bryant and say he didn't have the stats. Well, due to his sick array of offensive skills, Kobe can do anything from anywhere on the court as opposed to a more one dimensional player like Lebron James, the defense must always be aware of him and game plan around stopping him first. Well, if Kobe is being double teamed everywhere he goes, then holes will open up everywhere else on the court. Sure a Pau Gasol, or Odom or Bynum, may have more points and better FG%, but without Kobe on the court the others would not get that production. Now i'm not putting Bush on Kobe's level, but he provides the same type of dynamic. The defense must always respect Bush when he is on the field, and this opens up holes everywhere else. How many other teams have a RB with WR skills that can basically like up in the slot and you get no loss of ability? This dynamic oopens up EVERYTHING for the Saints offense. I've heard some pundits call Bush the 2nd most important player on the team behind Brees. My friend yesterday attempted to tell me he read that the Saints coach said Bush was the most important (by the way, i don't believe this since you can't top Brees). Either way, it is quite obvious that the man is very important to the offense and everyone can see that now.2) Superbowl hangover. I think Pat Riley said you get the disease of me. After a superbowl (or championship in other sports) everyone thinks that they are the man, that they deserve more money, that they deserve more credit, that they don't have to work as hard, etc etc etc.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Not from what Ive seen. Colston is the only one who makes catches consistently outside of Shockey.

Then you haven't been watching very closely, and I'll leave it at that. Colston has had the dropsies for two years now. I'm sure you can do the research on your own, but it's certainly verifiable info.

You're allowed your opinion, but I've seen every game the past 2 years and I disagree. So far this year, Meachem and Henderson do nothing but drop balls.....outside of Meachem's TD yesterday. Not saying Colston hasn't dropped a pass, but he's been the most consistent of the bunch, even with a defender draped over his back.

 

[Pnishthm]

Considering I don't follow them that closely, i'm curious as to what's going on offensively in New Orleans.A couple of things I think could be contributing to the problem:1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.2) Jamaal Brown- Is trading him away affecting this offense greatly???

There are two major problems with the Saints offense:1) Reggie Bush is gone. Stats sometimes do not tell the story, and this is the case with Reggie. Despite not getting too many touches, Bush is without doubt the most lethal option every time he steps on the field. He has receiver capabilities coming out of the backfield and can turn nothing into something huge. Add this to his running capabilities, and he is a lethal option. The reason stats sometimes don't tell the story is because every option on the field affects the defense. In basketball, you may look at a Kobe Bryant and say he didn't have the stats. Well, due to his sick array of offensive skills, Kobe can do anything from anywhere on the court as opposed to a more one dimensional player like Lebron James, the defense must always be aware of him and game plan around stopping him first. Well, if Kobe is being double teamed everywhere he goes, then holes will open up everywhere else on the court. Sure a Pau Gasol, or Odom or Bynum, may have more points and better FG%, but without Kobe on the court the others would not get that production. Now i'm not putting Bush on Kobe's level, but he provides the same type of dynamic. The defense must always respect Bush when he is on the field, and this opens up holes everywhere else. How many other teams have a RB with WR skills that can basically like up in the slot and you get no loss of ability? This dynamic oopens up EVERYTHING for the Saints offense. I've heard some pundits call Bush the 2nd most important player on the team behind Brees. My friend yesterday attempted to tell me he read that the Saints coach said Bush was the most important (by the way, i don't believe this since you can't top Brees). Either way, it is quite obvious that the man is very important to the offense and everyone can see that now.2) Superbowl hangover. I think Pat Riley said you get the disease of me. After a superbowl (or championship in other sports) everyone thinks that they are the man, that they deserve more money, that they deserve more credit, that they don't have to work as hard, etc etc etc.

I agree somewhat about Bush...but when he was out two years ago they had no problem moving the ball and putting up points. I tend to go with option #2 a little more.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

You're allowed your opinion, but I've seen every game the past 2 years and I disagree. So far this year, Meachem and Henderson do nothing but drop balls.....outside of Meachem's TD yesterday. Not saying Colston hasn't dropped a pass, but he's been the most consistent of the bunch, even with a defender draped over his back.

It's not just my opinion, like I said, it's verifiable info. There are plenty of sites that track target numbers, catch percentage, drops, etc. The numbers don't lie.Also, I'm not saying Henderson is a better receiver than Colston overall. I was just making a point that his reputation for dropping passes is largely undeserved.

 

[az_prof]

Not from what Ive seen. Colston is the only one who makes catches consistently outside of Shockey.

Then you haven't been watching very closely, and I'll leave it at that. Colston has had the dropsies for two years now. I'm sure you can do the research on your own, but it's certainly verifiable info.

You're allowed your opinion, but I've seen every game the past 2 years and I disagree. So far this year, Meachem and Henderson do nothing but drop balls.....outside of Meachem's TD yesterday. Not saying Colston hasn't dropped a pass, but he's been the most consistent of the bunch, even with a defender draped over his back.

Meachem has caught 70% of his targets. That's a pretty good catch %.

 

[Harrassment Panda]

Meachem has caught 70% of his targets. That's a pretty good catch %.

I would hope that to be the case. We all know the 3rd and 4th receivers in multiple-wide sets have a distinct advantage. Doesn't mean he should be elevated on the depth chart.

 

[JD8p]

They are without their two 2 RB's...I think that about covers it.

When you look deeper, their second RB is actually on the field quite a bit because he is a matchup nightmare...take him away and the actual workhorse and no matter who is calling the plays or under center, they are going to suffer big time.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Any updates on Bush and his injury? When is he expected back? Thanks!

 

[Donnybrook]

I recall how people were saying that Pierre Thomas was not worthy of a expensive new contract because he was easily replacable. Pierre fumbles about once a season and the clowns that the Saints are replacing him fumble once or twice a game.

 

[rowmacks]

Here is what I see.

1. Bush comments above are correct.

2. Last year the defense produced an unbelievable numbers of turnovers. Saints had a short field early leads. This year, they have not had great field position and defenses don't have to take gambles. They are sitting in coverage. Pierre Thomas injury makes this even more likely.

3. Colston, Henderson and meacham are getting no separation whatsoever.

Meachem got separation on his TD yesterday. Personally, I think they need to move Henderson to the fourth spot, and start Colston and Meachem on the ouside and Moore in the slot.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...chem-50-yard-TD

But truth be told, it is hard to have a good passing game with NO threat of a run game. They need a starting RB and don't have a healthy one right now. That's the problem.

You nailed it. Henderson has returned to the Henderson of old, maybe good for a highlight-reel play but cannot be relied on. He has had some extremely costly drops this season. I would love to See Colston / Meachem / Moore. The playcalling and Drew Brees' play has been pretty rough like others have said. Ridiculous amount of screens and dump offs to the RB, which would make some sense if you have Pierre or Reggie in there but not with Betts or Ivory. No running game hurts a ton but I really thought this just meant Brees would air it out like crazy and carry the team. He has definitely not been able to do that and is missing on throws like I haven't seen before. I really believe that they will turn it around, kind of like in '07 (don't feel like looking it up but I think thats when they started real slow, 0 - 4 or close to it). Brees will begin playing out of his mind again.

 

[az_prof]

Meachem has caught 70% of his targets. That's a pretty good catch %.

I would hope that to be the case. We all know the 3rd and 4th receivers in multiple-wide sets have a distinct advantage. Doesn't mean he should be elevated on the depth chart.

That's the first I ever heard that. So are there other teams where the fourth receiver has a 70% catch percentage?

 

[Jake22]

1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.

I think Bush's absence is huge. So many people focus on what he isn't (a 25-carry a game RB) they ignore what he is and that's a matchup nightmare. So much of what the Saints do successfully is predicated on defenses focusing on Bush. People look at his touches and ignore the fact he is typically on the field more than any other Saints' RB. I don't think you can remove that vital element and expect to continue firing on all cylinders. Plus, yesterday it also showed how much they miss Pierre Thomas too. Betts had two costly mistakes, the kinds of which Thomas isn't prone to making. It's hard for a lot of teams to operate successfully on offense when they're down to their third- and fourth-string RBs.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Their starting Rbs right now are Ladell Betts, Chris Ivory and Julius Jones...should I continue?

 

[Football Critic]

Their starting Rbs right now are Ladell Betts, Chris Ivory and Julius Jones...should I continue?

Yikes, I still think u give this team 3 plays to get 10 yards throwing, I like their chances, why do they even run...they are scaring no one doing that. Look for them to throw A LOT more.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Considering I don't follow them that closely, i'm curious as to what's going on offensively in New Orleans.A couple of things I think could be contributing to the problem:1) Reggie Bush - As much as he is a bust or doesn't produce in FF....he is a great offensive weapon. He is also probably a better decoy and creates for his teammates by just being on the field.2) Jamaal Brown- Is trading him away affecting this offense greatly???

It's the running backs and lack of a running game.The defense is actually better, just not getting TO's.But in the end you haev a missed very short FG vs ATL and a missed 29 yard field goal vs ARI. Thats' the difference; make those kicks and they're 5-0.