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Saints on crack! (1 Viewer)

Kiddnets

Footballguy
No way Jets give into this ransom - move onto another sucker!!!

Jets: They now can beat around the Bush

Saturday, April 29, 2006

BY DAVE HUTCHINSON

Star-Ledger Staff

The Houston Texans' surprising signing of defensive end Mario Williams last night as the first pick overall in the NFL Draft has left running back Reggie Bush up for grabs -- and seemingly within reach of the Jets.

But landing Bush, the Heisman Trophy winner considered the most explosive player in the draft, would be costly for the Jets.

According to an agent who represents one of the draft's top players, the New Orleans Saints, who own the No. 2 pick, are asking the Jets for one of two packages:

The Jets' pick at No. 4, plus their first-round selection at No. 29 and their first-round pick next season.

The Jets' pick at No. 4, plus their first-round selection at No. 29, their second-round pick at No. 35 and their second-round pick next season.

The agent said the Jets have been in discussions with the Saints about the No. 2 pick and they are not the only team. The 49ers, who pick No. 6 overall, also have expressed interest and were told it would cost them their No. 6 pick, plus the extra first-round pick they have at No. 22 and next season's first-round pick.

The agent, who requested anonymity because of potential dealings with his clients, said the Saints are willing to deal.

"I think the team willing to give up their first-round pick next season may be able to get the deal done," he said.

The early asking price for the No. 2 pick appears to be higher than another recent blockbuster deal. To acquire Eli Manning in 2004, the Giants traded Philip Rivers, whom they selected with the fifth overall pick, a third-round selection later that day and first- and fifth-round picks in the 2005 draft.

 

Doug B

Footballguy
Three firsts is just barely too much to pay ... but that second package is reasonable, IMHO.

But the Saints are starting negotiations from a high point, that's all. Look at that second package ... if the Jets substitute pick 71 for 35, and still kick in a 2007 2nd-rounder, the deal will get done.

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
Three firsts is just barely too much to pay ... but that second package is reasonable, IMHO.

But the Saints are starting negotiations from a high point, that's all. Look at that second package ... if the Jets substitute pick 71 for 35, and still kick in a 2007 2nd-rounder, the deal will get done.
Have you met the new Jet regime? Boobway is not in charge anymore - Jets will offer the #4 and #29 or call the bluff!
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
The Saints are posturing, plain and simple. The Jets are probably their only serious trading partner and they know that if they draft Bush they'll have an Eli/SD situation. :banned:

 

Toxic Gatorade

Footballguy
Draft pick demands like NO is asking for is probably the same reason that HOU wasn't able to trade down. No one will pay the king's ransom. With that said, I haven't heard of what HOU was asking for the #1

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
I'd heard the reasonable package would be the #4, #29 and a fourth this year.
Done!Value chart that is close to equal value - whats reported is - Jets should call the bluff immediately and move on to draft Brick - NO wil not get anyone to pay that price!

 

Doug B

Footballguy
Three firsts is just barely too much to pay ... but that second package is reasonable, IMHO.

But the Saints are starting negotiations from a high point, that's all. Look at that second package ... if the Jets substitute pick 71 for 35, and still kick in a 2007 2nd-rounder, the deal will get done.
Have you met the new Jet regime? Boobway is not in charge anymore - Jets will offer the #4 and #29 or call the bluff!
That won't get it done.The Jets are trying to leapfrog Tennessee ... not stick Bush on the Saints. If the Jets stand pat, they don't get Bush. If the Jets really want Bush (and some Jets fans are saying they don't :shrug: ) ... they kick in this year's 3rd-rounder. #2 pick is worth a lot more than #4 + #29.

 

Doug B

Footballguy
I'd heard the reasonable package would be the #4, #29 and a fourth this year.
Done!Value chart that is close to equal value - whats reported is - Jets should call the bluff immediately and move on to draft Brick - NO wil not get anyone to pay that price!
This is a good deal ... but 4, 29, and 71 is not? A 2006 3rd versus a 2006 4th makes or breaks the deal?Please ... stand pat ... let us draft Brick, let the Titans take Bush, and you guys can play the Leinart vs. Young game.

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
I'd heard the reasonable package would be the #4, #29 and a fourth this year.
Done!Value chart that is close to equal value - whats reported is - Jets should call the bluff immediately and move on to draft Brick - NO wil not get anyone to pay that price!
This is a good deal ... but 4, 29, and 71 is not? A 2006 3rd versus a 2006 4th makes or breaks the deal?Please ... stand pat ... let us draft Brick, let the Titans take Bush, and you guys can play the Leinart vs. Young game.
early 3rd vs a late 4th is a big difference. Probably can be worked out but if NO is looking for anyhting close to what was reported above - no deal. Feel free to stay put and draft Brick - knowing you could have had the same player cheaper and with an extra 1st rd pick. Jets can live without Bush and go QB or Hawk.

 

Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
please jets trade up. The fins facing Dbrick + a decent RB vs. them facing bush and a crappy o line coached by tony wise.

Even tony wise can't screw up ferguson that much.

 

drdgreenlove

Footballguy
If Im the Jets,

Call NO's bluff

They will not take Bush

Tennessee wont take Bush... they want a QB

then the Jets get Bush.

Plus if they have to "settle" for Leinart, VY, or Brick I dont think that would be so bad...

heck, they can trade their 29 and a 2nd and jump up to pick Maroney if they wanted

Leinart/VY/Brick and Maroney>>> Bush

Furthermore, the Jets will stink this year... I dont think they want to give up a top 10 pick next year as well

 
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Wyld Stallyns

Footballguy
The Saints are posturing, plain and simple. The Jets are probably their only serious trading partner and they know that if they draft Bush they'll have an Eli/SD situation. :banned:
I think San Fran has legit interest based on what I've been hearing on ESPN this morning.
 

bigmarc27

Footballguy
You can't go strictly by the value chart now... Bush is still the consensus #1 player in the draft, so to move to two, you have to give more than the chart says the pick is worth. Not quite all the way to #1 value, but more than usual. If you want top-tier game changing players, you have to pay for it. If you don't want Bush, then don't bother.

 

drdgreenlove

Footballguy
Anyone trading up for Bush is dumb

He will be a pain to sign, has more and more baggage coming out every day, and will be worthless on a team with a crap o-line...

Bush is going to want as much or more than williams and will hold out

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
You can't go strictly by the value chart now... Bush is still the consensus #1 player in the draft, so to move to two, you have to give more than the chart says the pick is worth. Not quite all the way to #1 value, but more than usual. If you want top-tier game changing players, you have to pay for it. If you don't want Bush, then don't bother.
I view it the other way around - if NO wants the player they really want (Brick) at a discount and with some extra picks - they have to take below the chart. Otherwise Jets sit tight and add Brick
 

Gatorman

Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
If they pay this... I will be seriously pissed. Who the hell is going to block for Bush!??! Christ.
Jesus Christ plays for the jets? Talk about Sacrificing yourself to pay off the sins of man!
 

Doug B

Footballguy
Feel free to stay put and draft Brick - knowing you could have had the same player cheaper and with an extra 1st rd pick. Jets can live without Bush and go QB or Hawk.
Who's in the wings behind Martin? I know you guys had a young guy with potential last season ... can't recall the name or how he did with limited action (Katrina killed out league last year ... so I didn't keep up with FFL much :( )From here, it looks like Bush is an immense need for the Jets. Immense.

 

Doug B

Footballguy
Anyone trading up for Bush is dumb

He will be a pain to sign, has more and more baggage coming out every day, and will be worthless on a team with a crap o-line...

Bush is going to want as much or more than williams and will hold out
There should be a point to where if Bush falls low enough, Segal won't insist on #1 pick money. Not sure where that point is, though ... is it at #4? Lower?
 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
If they pay this... I will be seriously pissed. Who the hell is going to block for Bush!??! Christ.
You can't get a solid OL prospect in the 2nd or 3rd? May not be Brick but guys like Mawae, McKenzie and Fabini were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd.
 

Patoons

Footballguy
Feel free to stay put and draft Brick - knowing you could have had the same player cheaper and with an extra 1st rd pick. Jets can live without Bush and go QB or Hawk.
Who's in the wings behind Martin? I know you guys had a young guy with potential last season ... can't recall the name or how he did with limited action (Katrina killed out league last year ... so I didn't keep up with FFL much :( )From here, it looks like Bush is an immense need for the Jets. Immense.
We can get a late first round back. Much better that and fill other areas with solid prospects IMO.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Feel free to stay put and draft Brick - knowing you could have had the same player cheaper and with an extra 1st rd pick.  Jets can live without Bush and go QB or Hawk.
Who's in the wings behind Martin? I know you guys had a young guy with potential last season ... can't recall the name or how he did with limited action (Katrina killed out league last year ... so I didn't keep up with FFL much :( )From here, it looks like Bush is an immense need for the Jets. Immense.
RB is a need for the Jets, but not really Bush. They CAN get a Rb at the end of the first. OL is a need too. (and QB)
 

Doug B

Footballguy
Broncos will trade up to get Bush. sshhhhh.
They traded away their ammo. Player-for-pick trades are pretty rare ... and if Lelie is their biggest available carrot, that's doubly bad -- the Saints won't be interested in a guy that would be their #3 WR.
 

nightshift

Footballguy
Saints are asking too much. Big surprise there.

No one will pay it.

Saints won't pay Bush's high price either.

They take Ferguson when it's all said and done.

Titans & Jets make a trade.

 

Dave Stauff

Footballguy
You can't go strictly by the value chart now... Bush is still the consensus #1 player in the draft, so to move to two, you have to give more than the chart says the pick is worth. Not quite all the way to #1 value, but more than usual. If you want top-tier game changing players, you have to pay for it. If you don't want Bush, then don't bother.
I'm in this school of thought. If you are one of the teams that have Reggie #1 on your draftboard, you will consider overpaying a little for the #2 pick. Whether this consideration causes any front office to blink at the Saints demands remains to be seen, but I can certainly understand why the Saints would stand pat until their last few minutes on the clock.I believe someone will blink . . . :yes:

 

Doug B

Footballguy
We can get a late first round back. Much better that and fill other areas with solid prospects IMO.
I wouldn't count on this. Even Addai won't be available.Call me crazy, but I think the RB run is going to happen earlier than the pundits think. I think Indy will leapfrog your #29, too.

 

3C's

Footballguy
If they pay this... I will be seriously pissed. Who the hell is going to block for Bush!??! Christ.
Jesus Christ plays for the jets? Talk about Sacrificing yourself to pay off the sins of man!
What they need is that Moses guy. Imagine what he could do to a Dline. Talk about opening up a hole.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Saints are asking too much. Big surprise there.

No one will pay it.

Saints won't pay Bush's high price either.

They take Ferguson when it's all said and done.

Titans & Jets make a trade.
Why? If he got to that point, I don't see the Jets trading with Tenn. either.
 

Patoons

Footballguy
If they pay this... I will be seriously pissed. Who the hell is going to block for Bush!??! Christ.
You can't get a solid OL prospect in the 2nd or 3rd? May not be Brick but guys like Mawae, McKenzie and Fabini were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd.
Well, fact of the matter may be is that I'm not a fan of Bush at this value. I think he is being overhyped a bit.From the first post, we may be losing this year's second. Either way, this is ridiculous value to give up for a guy that is no guarantee. No thanks.

 

NEUPJ

Footballguy
The problem is "bush is #1 value at #2" stuff is that the Saints can't pick Bush. They can not sign him after what they just gave Deuce. Everyone knows this and thats why he's not worth #1 Value.

 

Doug B

Footballguy
Well, fact of the matter may be is that I'm not a fan of Bush at this value. I think he is being overhyped a bit.

From the first post, we may be losing this year's second. Either way, this is ridiculous value to give up for a guy that is no guarantee. No thanks.
:thumbup: You're a Jets fan ... I'm a Saints fan ... and we are arguing from exactly the same vantage point.

I tell you what ... and I bet you'd agree: I wish Deuce were a little less brittle -- and you wish that Martin were a little younger. :(

 

Patoons

Footballguy
We can get a late first round back. Much better that and fill other areas with solid prospects IMO.
I wouldn't count on this. Even Addai won't be available.Call me crazy, but I think the RB run is going to happen earlier than the pundits think. I think Indy will leapfrog your #29, too.
With the issues with White and concerns over Maroney's ankle, I don't see it.
 

Patoons

Footballguy
Well, fact of the matter may be is that I'm not a fan of Bush at this value. I think he is being overhyped a bit.

From the first post, we may be losing this year's second. Either way, this is ridiculous value to give up for a guy that is no guarantee. No thanks.
:thumbup: You're a Jets fan ... I'm a Saints fan ... and we are arguing from exactly the same vantage point.

I tell you what ... and I bet you'd agree: I wish Deuce were a little less brittle -- and you wish that Martin were a little younger. :(
:yes:
 

nightshift

Footballguy
Saints are asking too much. Big surprise there.

No one will pay it.

Saints won't pay Bush's high price either.

They take Ferguson when it's all said and done.

Titans & Jets make a trade.
Why? If he got to that point, I don't see the Jets trading with Tenn. either.
Becuase:1. It wouldn't cost as much for the Titans & Jets to swap one position.

2. Titans still get their man, because they know who the Jets are taking

 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Saints are asking too much. Big surprise there.

No one will pay it. 

Saints won't pay Bush's high price either.

They take Ferguson when it's all said and done.

Titans & Jets make a trade.
Why? If he got to that point, I don't see the Jets trading with Tenn. either.
Becuase:1. It wouldn't cost as much for the Titans & Jets to swap one position.

2. Titans still get their man, because they know who the Jets are taking
Hmm. what did it cost the Browns to move up one spot to get Winslow? A 2nd?
 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
This is a good old fashioned stare down.

NO wants Brick - NYJ want Bush. A deal should get done - let's see how the new kids on the block fare. So far Tangini have acted like picks are gold - remember the Ramsey and Abe deals where Tangini held out for what they wanted.

In the end it makes too much sense not to have a deal go down from both sides unles SF comes in and blows it all out of the water with a Walker type offer.

I predict #4, #29 and the KC 4th rder (thanks Hermie) to NO for Bush

Leaves the Jets with Bush, an early 2nd and two 3rds to grab a QB of the future (Croyle?) and 2 solid OL prospects.

NO gets a gift 1st rd pick and the same guy they want 2 slots cheaper - make sure to send Houston a card!

If NO gets greedy and tries to get an Eli type deal - no doubt in my mind the JEts will walk. They may walk over the 3rd/4th rder!

 

fletch

Footballguy
Well, fact of the matter may be is that I'm not a fan of Bush at this value.  I think he is being overhyped a bit.

From the first post, we may be losing this year's second.  Either way, this is ridiculous value to give up for a guy that is no guarantee.  No thanks.
:thumbup: You're a Jets fan ... I'm a Saints fan ... and we are arguing from exactly the same vantage point.

I tell you what ... and I bet you'd agree: I wish Deuce were a little less brittle -- and you wish that Martin were a little younger. :(
:goodposting:
 

Doug B

Footballguy
If NO gets greedy and tries to get an Eli type deal - no doubt in my mind the JEts will walk. They may walk over the 3rd/4th rder!
If the two teams get down to being this close ... I'd hope the Saints would throw in a 2007 pick to grease the wheels. We could really use that #71 pick this year.
 

Doug B

Footballguy
We can get a late first round back.  Much better that and fill other areas with solid prospects IMO.
I wouldn't count on this. Even Addai won't be available.Call me crazy, but I think the RB run is going to happen earlier than the pundits think. I think Indy will leapfrog your #29, too.
With the issues with White and concerns over Maroney's ankle, I don't see it.
Here's a plausible mock that kind of demonstrates what I'm predicting.See how Gosselin has Addai as the last RB in the first round going to the Colts at 30? Well, I'm thinking that NE and SF at 22 could well both take RBs ... and one other surprise team will take one, too (there's always some W-T-F picks in the mid-first round). On top of that, I see Indy trying to jump the 29th pick in response to what NE and/or SF do.

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
If NO gets greedy and tries to get an Eli type deal - no doubt in my mind the JEts will walk.  They may walk over the 3rd/4th rder!
If the two teams get down to being this close ... I'd hope the Saints would throw in a 2007 pick to grease the wheels. We could really use that #71 pick this year.
Come on Doug - you are getting a gift for the same player! I understand though - "greed is good" - but be careful to lose the deal with numbers being thrown around like the Ledger - lose all credibility quick - see Boobaways Herm Edwards deal!

"I'll take a 1st and a 3rd for Herm!"

"Oh , you know we don't really want him? OK - how about a 4th and a job in 2007?"

 

Doug B

Footballguy
If NO gets greedy and tries to get an Eli type deal - no doubt in my mind the JEts will walk.  They may walk over the 3rd/4th rder!
If the two teams get down to being this close ... I'd hope the Saints would throw in a 2007 pick to grease the wheels. We could really use that #71 pick this year.
Come on Doug - you are getting a gift for the same player! I understand though - "greed is good" ...
:D The wild card in all of this "just what do Jets's brass think of Bush"? I think I've got a read on what the fans think.

 

Sidewinder

Footballguy
Apparently those of you who keep saying the Saints should/need to take Brick either [a] don't pay attention or don't believe Payton when he says Jamaal Brown to LT is permanent.

 

Patoons

Footballguy
We can get a late first round back. Much better that and fill other areas with solid prospects IMO.
I wouldn't count on this. Even Addai won't be available.Call me crazy, but I think the RB run is going to happen earlier than the pundits think. I think Indy will leapfrog your #29, too.
With the issues with White and concerns over Maroney's ankle, I don't see it.
Here's a plausible mock that kind of demonstrates what I'm predicting.See how Gosselin has Addai as the last RB in the first round going to the Colts at 30? Well, I'm thinking that NE and SF at 22 could well both take RBs ... and one other surprise team will take one, too (there's always some W-T-F picks in the mid-first round). On top of that, I see Indy trying to jump the 29th pick in response to what NE and/or SF do.
Sure that's a possibility. There are a ton of possibilities and clearly no guarantees, but I like the chances of a guy falling to 29... rather than predicting that two teams trade up in addition to a team picking an RB when it's not a need.If the Jets want an RB, why would they trade it to the Colts?

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
Apparently those of you who keep saying the Saints should/need to take Brick either [a] don't pay attention or don't believe Payton when he says Jamaal Brown to LT is permanent.
the answer of course is "b" - why would a coach lie weeks before the draft??? Lies make Baby Jesus cry! :cry:
 

Doug B

Footballguy
Sure that's a possibility. There are a ton of possibilities and clearly no guarantees, but I like the chances of a guy falling to 29... rather than predicting that two teams trade up in addition to a team picking an RB when it's not a need.

If the Jets want an RB, why would they trade it to the Colts?
Sorry ... I wasn't clear -- I didn't mean for two teams to trade up ... just the Colts. And I meant for them to trade up to a pick above the Jets ... not to trade with the Jets for 29.Also, RB is a need for both the Niners and Pats, IMHO. If both go RB, no surprise team has to pick a RB to mess up the Jets' plans.

 

Doug B

Footballguy
Apparently those of you who keep saying the Saints should/need to take Brick either [a] don't pay attention or don't believe Payton when he says Jamaal Brown to LT is permanent.
I do think Brown could do it ... but let's face it -- Brown's only been an LT for mini-camp. The investment in practice time has not been heavy. And there's still a hole at RT.Brick at LT and Brown back at RT makes a lot of sense. So does Hawk at 4 overall + Whitworth in the second, with Whit starting at RT (and Jamaal staying at LT) from jump street.

 

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