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Sam Bradford (1 Viewer)
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T Bell
Footballguy
You have this exactly backwards. Congratulations. BTW, the Lions got into their mess in part because Charles Rogers and Mike Williams were NOT the "best players available".
3C's
Footballguy
Good luck trading the #1. As far as WR, if he was BPA and there was a need, sure. Do the Lions need a QB? Yes, since it appears Stanton isn't going to work out. He doesn't have to play right away. He can sit behind Culpepper until he's ready.
3C's
Footballguy
He might not even be the best OT in the draft.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
You know a lot more about these things than me, but I'd be very surprised if Tebow doesn't go in the first 45 picks.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Do you think winning the Heisman makes a QB worse?
Why do you think he ended up in that position? It wasn't a designed play.And if we're going to bring FFA
into this, I think he did okay.28 of 41 for 387 yards and 5 TDs is pretty good for all of the pressure UT put on him on that neutral field. Certainly much better numbers than McCoy had that day.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
There are four good OTs in the draft, I think. Oher, Smith and Monroe, too.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I was referring to his throwing motion.And Chad Pennington? I don't see that at all.
jurb26
Footballguy
Are you seriously asking this question? Bradford is a great prospect and I've said before I think he is the 2nd best QB in this class. Make no mistake about it though, no other QB in the country is surrounded with as much talent as Bradford. Fla and USC offer a little competition, but Oklahoma simply runs away from every other school in the country other than maybe Alabama when you get to the Oline.Juaquin Iglesias - Late 2nd/early 3rd round talent.Jermaine Gresham - 1st round talent and best TE in draft.DeMarco Murray - 1st round talent but needs to go back to school to be drafted as such.Chris Brown - 5th round or later.Duke Robinson - 1st round talent and best G in the draft.... by a wide margin.Phil Loadholt - late 1st/2nd round talent at T.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
OK... we'll just disagree...Personally I think he'd sure look good in a Vikings jersey.
Dude has tremendous talent. I'm no nfl 
like you, but please, if Shaun Hill can start in the NFL, I think Tebow will too at some point.
Balco
Footballguy
Duke Robinson is not one of the best 5 guard prospects. I have watched many overrated players on film, but he tops the list for me. And Phil Loadholt is not far behind in the overrated department.
jurb26
Footballguy
I've yet to hear anyone say these guys are overrated but to each their own. What about their play makes you say this?
EBF
Footballguy
jurb26 has a serious case of Matt Stafford <3, which probably colors his opinion of Bradford.
I think Bradford has a good supporting cast, but this is not like Ken Dorsey playing with Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Jeremy Shockey, and Clinton Portis. Oklahoma's offense is not stocked to the brim with future Pro Bowlers. Not even close. Iglesias probably isn't one of the top 5 WRs in the Big 12. Gresham is a great college player, but his presence alone can't account for Bradford's off the charts production.
I think Bradford has a good supporting cast, but this is not like Ken Dorsey playing with Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, Jeremy Shockey, and Clinton Portis. Oklahoma's offense is not stocked to the brim with future Pro Bowlers. Not even close. Iglesias probably isn't one of the top 5 WRs in the Big 12. Gresham is a great college player, but his presence alone can't account for Bradford's off the charts production.
jurb26
Footballguy
I've made it clear for some time now that Stafford is the best QB in this class. Still, placing Bradford as a close 2nd is by no means a slap in the face, as you seem to make it sound. Also, why does everyone around here consistently omit the dominance of the Oklahoma Oline? IMO it is the best unit in the country. There is now way anyone can argue it is outside the top 5. I never said Iglesias and Gresham alone account for his off the charts production. The fact that he has the best Oline in the country, 2 superb college RBs (one of which is a tremendous threat as a receiving option), a great TE and very good WRs are the reasons to credit his support. Of course Bradford is a great player in his own right as well. Anyone looking at this realistically can see how impressive the entire Oklahoma squad is. I am a long time Oklahoma "hater" and even I can give them credit. The coaches and players at Cinci, winners of the Big East, state that Oklahoma was like playing a roster of Big East all stars. The lack of objectivity around here, especially from guys like you who claim to be in the collage football "know", is simply amazing sometimes.
3C's
Footballguy
Balco
Footballguy
I have watched several Oklahoma games, and I don't think either players skills translate well to the pros. I broke down one game completely, the Cincy game. I watched and rewatched every play focusing in on several players. Here were my thoughts on both players:
PHIL LOADHOLT, LEFT TACKLE (6'8 337) SENIOR (# 79)
Bio
Highly regarded Offensive lineman who failed to impress. Lazy on his blocks, did not go to the whistle. Short, slow choppy steps on pass protection. Needs to use his long arms more on pass protection. Speed rushers are going to give him a huge problem at the next level. Showed little power Does not get out of his stance low (even for a 6'8 player). A complete non factor at the second level, often stood around in the hole. He got by in this game on natural ability, but will not be successful at the next level if he doesn't pick up his technique.
DUKE ROBINSON, LEFT GUARD (6'5 335) SENIOR (# 72)
Bio
Widely considered to be the best guard prospect by a large margin. I will need to watch several more games, because I did not see much to be excited about regarding Robinson. I did find it odd that he was substituted for on a couple of early series (not consecutive) by Brian Simmons. Robinson is big, and if he gets his hands on you, you are not getting away. He can knock you down to the ground with his great strength. He looked extremely slow when asked to pull, and often times could not get to his target on the 2nd level in time due to his very slow game speed. He looked gassed after any series that lasted more than 3 plays. Like Loadholt, often saw him standing around instead of seeking out a defender. He did not even look like a top 5 guard in this game.
Here is the link to my post with the full game report:
Oklahoma v. Cincy
The Lions are the definition of rebuilding. If they go anywhere besides OT with their first 2 picks, bad management.
Edit: I remember the year the Jets finally admitted they were a team that needed to rebuild. In that draft they got DaBrickshaw 2nd overall then Mangold. We are now enjoying the fruits of that draft, with icing because of the Faneca signing. Don't they have 2 picks in the 1st round now? They can possibly go Michael Oher then somebody like Jeremy Perry. They really shouldn't take a QB this year... they have Culpepper for another season, let him get his ### kicked while the line matures then bring in your franchise QB when its safe. If Bradord returns, probably would be icing on the cake for them.
Edit: I remember the year the Jets finally admitted they were a team that needed to rebuild. In that draft they got DaBrickshaw 2nd overall then Mangold. We are now enjoying the fruits of that draft, with icing because of the Faneca signing. Don't they have 2 picks in the 1st round now? They can possibly go Michael Oher then somebody like Jeremy Perry. They really shouldn't take a QB this year... they have Culpepper for another season, let him get his ### kicked while the line matures then bring in your franchise QB when its safe. If Bradord returns, probably would be icing on the cake for them.
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T Bell
Footballguy
Please explain how Tebow is any more prepared to play in the NFL than Vince Young was.OK... we'll just disagree...Personally I think he'd sure look good in a Vikings jersey.Dude has tremendous talent. I'm no nfl
like you, but please, if Shaun Hill can start in the NFL, I think Tebow will too at some point.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Because he put up passing numbers in his SOPHOMORE season that Vince Young could never even dream of in his SENIOR season?Please explain how Tebow is any more prepared to play in the NFL than Vince Young was.
I don't think he will either, but I've come to love watching him play, I hope he has some form of success at the next level.
A
awesomeness
Guest
He will.... as a FB
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
I agree. I also feel the same about Bradford, as well as McCoy.
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CowboyFan
Footballguy
Best quote of the day. Tebow is just a fullback with a fantastic o-line, wr's who are almost always better than the db's they face, and a NOODLE ARM.Damn, when I watch a UF game there are so many duck flying around that I feel like pulling out my old NES Zapper gunHe will.... as a FB
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T Bell
Footballguy
Ah yes, college passing numbers. How I love them so. When is Ken Dorsey getting inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame again?Because he put up passing numbers in his SOPHOMORE season that Vince Young could never even dream of in his SENIOR season?Please explain how Tebow is any more prepared to play in the NFL than Vince Young was.
shader
Footballguy
I wouldn't touch a Big 12 QB with anything above a 2nd round pick. If you guys haven't noticed, they don't play defense in the Big 12.
Watch Sam Bradford against Florida or Alabama and then tell me how good he is.
I guarantee he won't throw for 400 yards and 5 TD's against either of those schools.
Watch Sam Bradford against Florida or Alabama and then tell me how good he is.
I guarantee he won't throw for 400 yards and 5 TD's against either of those schools.
Incogneto
Footballguy
Tebow has terrible footwork, a sub-par delivery, is not very accurate, and pulls the ball down to quick. These are all things that Bradford does right, and is the difference on why one will translate well into the NFL, and the other will not.
IMO, Bradford is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton Manning. With that said, I think he needs one more year in College, and has said so himself. I said before in another thread, name some QBs that came out as Jrs. I can think of 2: V.Young, and R.Grossman. 'Nuff said.
ETA: Stafford is GOOD too....but not great.
IMO, Bradford is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton Manning. With that said, I think he needs one more year in College, and has said so himself. I said before in another thread, name some QBs that came out as Jrs. I can think of 2: V.Young, and R.Grossman. 'Nuff said.
ETA: Stafford is GOOD too....but not great.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Against Mizzou...who made Juice Williams look like Tom Brady.I'm very interested to see what Bradford does in January against Florida. He definitely looks like he has all the tools, but the Big 12 defenses have just been downright awful this year (I know the offenses are good, but even out of conference teams like Eastern Washington were scoring more against their Big 12 opponents than they were against the unheard of D2 schools they were playing). It will be interesting to see if he looks as comfortable against a real defense.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Well there are a lot of errors in here. First of all Eastern Washington wasn't scoring more against "D2" opponents than they were against Colorado or Texas Tech so I'm guessing you don't know what a "D2" is. They played Western Washington from D2 and scored 52. Secondly, Big 12 is the #1 ranked conference in college football. Finally maybe you forgot TCU who is in a offensive leaning conference and is 2nd in total defense in the NCAA. They did not allow more than 14 points against any opponent except one, OU which scored 35. Bradford was 19-34 for 411 yards and 4 TDs in that game. Cincinnati was 24th in total defense coming into the Hawaii game and Bradford was 29-38 for 395 yards and 5 TDs against them. Bradford also threw for 387 and 5 Tds against Texas who has a pretty good defense and the best in the Big 12. OU scored 60 points in 5 straight games and the most in NCAA history for any FBS team. If you want to say that Bradford's success is based on probably the best O-line in college football then fine but you didn't mention that. If you want to base it on system you might not like what you find from the Stoops era past. If you want to say they didn't have a running game and were forced to pass then you'll forget about Chris Brown who ran for 1000 yards and Demarco Murray who himself is a great NFL prospect. Spare us the Eastern Washington/Big 12 sucks shtick though. Florida gave up 30 points to Ole Miss and they haven't played an offense any where close to Ou's all year. The Big 12 is also by far the best conference in college football this year and the offenses in it are amazing. It has much less to do with bad defensive showings than it does with the Big 12 just being superior in offensive personnel and the draft over the next few years will prove that. OU scored 50+ points nine times this year, Sam Bradford was the biggest reason for that.FreeBaGeL said:
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Are SEC defenses that good or their offenses that bad?
jurb26
Footballguy
Glad to hear the guys who called the game last night giving a lot of credit to the Oklahoma Oline.
I'm not sure what the status of Murray's injury is as of yet, but with out him I think Florida will have a much easier time preparing for Oklahoma.
Let's hold off on the comments as to who is the best conference in the country this year. At least the "by far" ones. This game will go a long way towards confirming that IMO.
I'm not sure what the status of Murray's injury is as of yet, but with out him I think Florida will have a much easier time preparing for Oklahoma.
Let's hold off on the comments as to who is the best conference in the country this year. At least the "by far" ones. This game will go a long way towards confirming that IMO.
ninerfanatic492000
Footballguy
i think some nfl team will be uber happy to get Chase Daniel in round 2-4. may take him some time ala Drew Brees but he's got same intangibles and measureables. i would be estatic if Martz stays and we got Chase in round 3or so
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
The thing that impresses me most about Bradford is his escapability and the accuracy when on the move. That's before we get to topics like arm strength (more than adequate) and accuracy (exceptional).
I don't see them in Daniel. He seems like a hothead and gets flustered under pressure. I've never seen that in Brees.
i'm in the same camp as many of you in thinking that Tebow is not going to be a good NFL QB or maybe not even a QB at all. Have you seen some of the passes that come out of his hands? YIKES. Talk about floaters, no way in hell he squeezes some of those knuckleballs in against NFL defenses. And he's not fast enough to be a running QB in the NFL either. Great college player, mediocre pro prospect in my opinion.
I like Matthew Stafford of Georgia as the best college QB for the pro game. Big, strong guy who can make all the throws and tosses a great deep ball. I'd take him over anyone in the draft, Bradford included if he declares.
I like Matthew Stafford of Georgia as the best college QB for the pro game. Big, strong guy who can make all the throws and tosses a great deep ball. I'd take him over anyone in the draft, Bradford included if he declares.
Chachi
Footballguy
FWIW, Last night they interviewd Murray at good length after the game and he said it was a bruise and that he could have came back and played but they held him out.Murray said at least 3 times that it was nothing and that he would be back in "two days."Glad to hear the guys who called the game last night giving a lot of credit to the Oklahoma Oline.
I'm not sure what the status of Murray's injury is as of yet, but with out him I think Florida will have a much easier time preparing for Oklahoma.
Let's hold off on the comments as to who is the best conference in the country this year. At least the "by far" ones. This game will go a long way towards confirming that IMO.
CravenM
Footballguy
Overall, the defenses in the SEC are much better than the Big 12 who give up 9 more points and a ton more yardage per game on average.
There's a reason 3 QB in the Big 12 have such gaudy numbers - they're playing inferior defenses and their own team is giving up a ton of yards/points each game.
I think Tebow will have a similar difficult path into the traditional NFL QB rankings as Steve McNair had - it's going to take a creative team to be able to utilize his talents. There's a reason that he waits "too long" to throw the ball - because he can. LBs are afraid to attack because Tebow is faster than most of them - plus he's difficult to bring down. Tebow is probably the best football player in the history of College Football - period. He's also one of the strongest players on the team - he bench pressed 250 pounds 28 times when he arrived on campus as a Freshman.
I personally don't see Bradford as being a good NFL QB - his arm is average. I think Stafford will be the 1st QB taken in 2009 and is much in the mold of Jay Cutler.
There's a reason 3 QB in the Big 12 have such gaudy numbers - they're playing inferior defenses and their own team is giving up a ton of yards/points each game.
I think Tebow will have a similar difficult path into the traditional NFL QB rankings as Steve McNair had - it's going to take a creative team to be able to utilize his talents. There's a reason that he waits "too long" to throw the ball - because he can. LBs are afraid to attack because Tebow is faster than most of them - plus he's difficult to bring down. Tebow is probably the best football player in the history of College Football - period. He's also one of the strongest players on the team - he bench pressed 250 pounds 28 times when he arrived on campus as a Freshman.
I personally don't see Bradford as being a good NFL QB - his arm is average. I think Stafford will be the 1st QB taken in 2009 and is much in the mold of Jay Cutler.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I've seen Tebow as a late 1st in some mocks, although they weren't from draft experts, so who knows....
jurb26
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't really like Matt Stafford as an NFL prospect. After seeing him play a few times, I don't get a "Wow, this guy is amazing" feeling from him. He has all the intangibles and the cannon arm and all that, but he doesn't scream NFL superstar to me when I watch him play. There's been a few situations that I've seen him in where he just didn't look very good, where, IMO, he looked a little flustered. I think Stafford will be a solid NFL QB though....I don't think he'll be Joey Harrington or Ryan Leaf, but I don't think he's the 2nd coming of Brett Favre. Whoever picks him early will get a solid quarterback, but not the kinda guy who's going to singlehandedly direct a mediocre team to the playoffs.
At the same time, after seeing a bunch of Bradford's games, I'm convinced that he is the real deal. I haven't been this sold on a guy in a long time...he may not have the raw arm strength of Stafford, but he more than makes up for it with the rest of his game. There's a certain intangible feeling about Bradford, IMO, when he has the ball in his hands. The kind of feeling I used to get when Jim Kelly would have the ball....the feeling that he's going to make a play and everything is alright....the same feeling I haven't felt with guys like Bledsoe, Losman, etc. (BTW, I'm not an OU fan)
As for Tebow, I think, as someone said, he's a project. The guy is a physical freak, and if some inventive offensive coordinator can figure out how to use him, I think he could be a legit NFL QB. But it will take a bit of time and effort. He should stay in school rather than coming out, IMO. I'm not sure of his vitals, so I'm not sure how he would transition to another position, but I don't see why he couldn't be a "wildcat" type QB in the pros. If a team takes Tebow, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a move to more shotgun/Wildcat formations...not the spread offense, mind you, but something that is specifically tailored to Tebow's strengths.
At the same time, after seeing a bunch of Bradford's games, I'm convinced that he is the real deal. I haven't been this sold on a guy in a long time...he may not have the raw arm strength of Stafford, but he more than makes up for it with the rest of his game. There's a certain intangible feeling about Bradford, IMO, when he has the ball in his hands. The kind of feeling I used to get when Jim Kelly would have the ball....the feeling that he's going to make a play and everything is alright....the same feeling I haven't felt with guys like Bledsoe, Losman, etc. (BTW, I'm not an OU fan)
As for Tebow, I think, as someone said, he's a project. The guy is a physical freak, and if some inventive offensive coordinator can figure out how to use him, I think he could be a legit NFL QB. But it will take a bit of time and effort. He should stay in school rather than coming out, IMO. I'm not sure of his vitals, so I'm not sure how he would transition to another position, but I don't see why he couldn't be a "wildcat" type QB in the pros. If a team takes Tebow, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a move to more shotgun/Wildcat formations...not the spread offense, mind you, but something that is specifically tailored to Tebow's strengths.
A
awesomeness
Guest
If one of the major reasons Andre Woodson didn't get drafted last year until the 6th round was his arm delivery, the earliest Tebow will get drafted will be the 3rd round, imo. Considering he has probably the worst arm delivery out there, and its significantly worse than Woodson's.
Routilla
Footballguy
It's a different game in the NFL. Many guys much faster than him and his ability to escape is much more diminished than his situation right now at OU. Remember Matt Leinart? He was a can't miss superstar destined for greatness I believe. IMO QB is one of the toughest positions to project. Alex Smith also comes to mind.
jurb26
Footballguy
Leinart is the guy Bradford most reminds me of.
T Bell
Footballguy
Why? Because both Leinart and Bradford have run two of the most prolific passing offenses in NCAA history? I haven't watched much of Bradford, but Leinart's biggest problem is his work ethic. He doesn't seem to really be focused at the NFL level. To me that's pretty fluky because he had everything you'd want coming out, including fitting to a "T" those college numbers you look for - 30+ starts with >60% completions. He had all the big game experience you'd ever hope for. I even still hold out hope that Leinart will get serious and turn it on, but that is fading over time. Anyway, I think Leinart is not a good guidepost to use for Bradford unless there's somehow also some question about how hard Bradford works or how easily he's distracted by living The Life.
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't claim to know anything about these guys personalities or work ethic. I don't get to interview them, NFL teams do. They will ultimately decide if they think he is a guy who could "lack focus." His on field game reminds me of Leinart... and that is not a bad thing. Try not to get your panties in a bunch.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Those college numbers don't predict future success.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
And unless you know Bradford personally, I don't see how anyone can gauge this by watching his on-field play.
jurb26
Footballguy
So, you know Bradford personally? Can I get an autograph? I mean you did just compare him to Kelly based on his on-field play.
