Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
No, Indy is
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** San Diego SUPER Chargers Official In season Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bicycle_seat_sniffer
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Tau837
Footballguy
I don't think Vincent Jackson is the primary difference between a generic win and a generic loss. And I agree that Rivers makes his receivers better rather than the other way around. My whole point is that right now the Chargers are one win short of being in playoff contention, and two wins short of controlling their own playoff destiny... and it so happens that they had multiple close losses when they had a lot of injuries to their receiving corps, and *given those circumstances* Jackson could easily have made the difference in one or two of those losses.I have not advocated breaking the bank for him. I have said that *if* A.J. tags him *then* I feel his handling of VJax was a failed strategy, since 2 of the 5 years it would have taken to sign him would have obviously been deemed worth it.I can't believe how unwilling so many of you are to recognize that Jackson is a great player who could have made a real difference this year. That isn't the same as saying A.J. should have caved to his contract demands. All that said, yes, I agree to disagree and move on at this point.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
It's not JUST about a per-game check and you know it. It's about guaranteed money like it ALWAYS is. Jackson is looking at a $50M deal, a nice portion of which will be guaranteed. THAT is what may or may not be worth taking $348,000/game this year to risk. Everything players and agents do is driving toward that one (or maybe two or three) big paydays - and after 6 years in the league, Jackson has not gotten one. Virtually no other player of his caliber has ever been in that situation (in the modern era).I am mystified as to how an extremely bright guy like yourself (and I mean that sincerely, not with any kind of sarcasm) can fail to see even a remote possibility of a player in Jackson's situation doing what he did, just from a risk/reward standpoint. And that doesn't take into account the VERY real emotional standpoint of watching lesser players on your own team make more than you do year after year. At some point, you just say "enough", which is what Jackson did, AFTER he played out his full contract. Yet you seem to think that possibility shouldn't even have crossed AJ's mind when he made his plans for this season.
The RFA status doesn't mean the team holds ALL the cards. It just means the player has restrictions on who else he can deal with (and how he can deal with them) to determine his value. "Free Agent" is still a big part of "Restricted Free Agent". Jackson exercised his rights according to the "FA" part of RFA, just like AJ exercised his rights on the "restricted" part.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
One of the reasons that the Chargers won as many games as they did this year was because they had a very strong passing attack. I can't believe we are arguing about how much of a difference the absence of one relatively minor portion of that passing attack had on what was one of the best passing teams in the league instead of focusing on the much more glaring weaknesses on the team that resulted in so many of their losses. Nitpicking one of the things that they did really well and blaming that for the losses seems rather foolish.
Tau837
Footballguy
It just seems different to me because it was a contract issue, not an issue of execution on the field.
Plus, I already agreed to disagree on that and move on. Apparently I am on an island in that viewpoint anyway, since no one has really agreed with me.It's very obvious that they had other bigger issues that related to coaching and execution on the field, with the horrible special teams being the primary example. Had the Chargers had even below average special teams instead of special teams among the worst in NFL history, they probably would have won 3 more games and would have been competing down the stretch for a bye rather than a playoff berth. IMO the KC, Seattle, and first Oakland losses can all be blamed directly on special teams, and they had a FG blocked against St. Louis and ultimately lost by 3 points, so that's another one that arguably fits.I guess it just seems so obvious that special teams were the most glaring problem that there isn't much to discuss on that front.I suppose we could also talk about injuries. Had the Chargers not had such a rash of injuries to Gates and the WRs, I think there is an excellent chance that they would have won one of those games in the three game losing streak to Oakland, St. Louis, and New England. I distinctly remember Buster Davis dropping important passes in multiple of those games, and with better receivers not missing time, he may not have been in that position to hurt the team.But injuries are part of the game, and it feels like the Chargers just got somewhat unlucky in that area this year. As already posted in the thread, they have nearly matched the NFL record this year for number of players used, but beyond that it was the number of injuries to one area - the receiving corps - and the timing of them all happening so close together that really hurt.We could talk about coaching, and how inexplicable it is that the Chargers have now gotten off to terrible starts for four straight seasons under Norv. I really don't understand how that can happen. I'd love to hear some theories other than just "Norv sucks" rhetoric, but I haven't seen anyone attempt to effectively address that subject.What else is there to discuss about their problems this year?We could certainly discuss how great Rivers was this season, but I think we are all in agreement there. IMO he has finally established himself nationally as one of the top handful of QBs in the NFL. I think national opinion would now put Peyton, Brees, and Brady (in no order) at the top of the NFL pecking order, with Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Vick in the next group. Some people might add Romo to that latter group, but I think most would not. Personally, I think Rivers is the best of that second group and will prove to have more staying power than the others. I'm happy to see Rivers getting the recognition that he has deserved for a couple of years now. I assume someone will start an official offseason thread next week, and then we can talk about their prospects moving forward.Anyway, looking forward to next year. I hope A.J. is able to have a stronger offseason than he has the past few years.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I think the fact that nobody ever slams the Chargers for letting Brees go is the best compliment you can pay Philip Rivers. You have to be awfully good to not only defend that kind of move, but have it never come up.
The team will be fine imo. They missed the playoffs for the first time in five years iirc. They got spoiled by slacking early and coming on late to make the playoffs in previous seasons. It burned them this time. I think you'll see them start strong in 2011 (or whenever they play).
The team will be fine imo. They missed the playoffs for the first time in five years iirc. They got spoiled by slacking early and coming on late to make the playoffs in previous seasons. It burned them this time. I think you'll see them start strong in 2011 (or whenever they play).
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Polar Dude
Footballguy
Oh, I know. That's why I didn't post in response to what you said. I really wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything.Just Win Baby said:
Polar Dude
Footballguy
I was listening to ESPN Radio, and Colin Cowherd said something to the effect that everyone considers Peyton, Brady, and Rivers to be the best quarterbacks in the league... then he went on to try to make a case for the inclusion of Big Ben into that group. I was kind of surprised that he put Rivers in over the leader of the defending Super Bowl champs, but maybe all of those interceptions that Brees threw this year hurt his rep a bit.Just Win Baby said:I think national opinion would now put Peyton, Brees, and Brady (in no order) at the top of the NFL pecking order, with Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Vick in the next group. Some people might add Romo to that latter group, but I think most would not. Personally, I think Rivers is the best of that second group and will prove to have more staying power than the others. I'm happy to see Rivers getting the recognition that he has deserved for a couple of years now.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
You make a good point about Rivers. It used to come up... a lot, but Rivers seems to have mostly ended that talk.Thanks for the sentiment, and I hope you are right, but people have been talking quite a bit the last two or three years about this window closing.Neil Beaufort Zod said:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well then that's where we strongly differ. On a 45-man game day roster I simply don't believe Jackson is worth 3+ more than whoever would be playing in his absence. Truthfully, I really think only a handful of NFL players are worth 3+ points by themselves.I think Jackson would have been worth 3+ points in both of those games.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
This might be another point of disconnect. Is Jackson a better player than Crayton? Davis? Kelley Washington? Sure. Does that mean he's going to produce more than any of those players in a particular game? Maybe. If Jackson was able to produce a great deal more than KELLEY WASHINGTON the SD Chargers might have won they game in CIN.Just Win Baby said:
Which unit was worse this year: the Chargers special teams or the Texans pass defense?
Polar Dude
Footballguy
The Texans' pass defense was perceived to be worse because they were on the field more often. The Chargers ST unit was actually worse when you consider the ratio of awful gaffes to their number of opportunities.
Sebowski
Footballguy
You're giving Cowherd too much credit. He probably just forgot Brees existed for a day. In a couple weeks he'll tell you he always thought Brees was the greatest QB of all time.I was listening to ESPN Radio, and Colin Cowherd said something to the effect that everyone considers Peyton, Brady, and Rivers to be the best quarterbacks in the league... then he went on to try to make a case for the inclusion of Big Ben into that group. I was kind of surprised that he put Rivers in over the leader of the defending Super Bowl champs, but maybe all of those interceptions that Brees threw this year hurt his rep a bit.Just Win Baby said:I think national opinion would now put Peyton, Brees, and Brady (in no order) at the top of the NFL pecking order, with Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Vick in the next group. Some people might add Romo to that latter group, but I think most would not. Personally, I think Rivers is the best of that second group and will prove to have more staying power than the others. I'm happy to see Rivers getting the recognition that he has deserved for a couple of years now.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Meh. I'm not saying the Chiefs would have won had circumstances been different, but I doubt we'd have see the pasting we saw today had the Chiefs had something to play for.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Crosby. That last kick return for a TD must have been the final nail in his coffin. Special teams and turnovers == no playoffs. For the team that ranked 1st in offense and defense. Yeah it's just yardage, and yeah it was against an incredibly soft schedule, but how many other times in league history has that happened?
Brees w/ Gates and Fitz and you wouldn't even need a special teams unit.
Between having a young stud QB and playing in the AFC West, you pretty much are in the small crowd of favorites every year.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I was beggin for fitz that draft. UGHBrees w/ Gates and Fitz and you wouldn't even need a special teams unit.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
In other news Ron rivera is interviewing for the Carolina HC job
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Have to believe he'll be an HC somewhere next season. Maybe the Chargers can hire Phillips back as a DC.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I was hoping for the same thing if Rivera left but Wade went to HOU(good hire for them).
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
So did I hear correctly with the Jets win over the Colts, we now get NYjets 2nd rounder for cromartie instead of their 3rd rounder? Thats huge
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That's what I've heard. I'm rooting for LaDainian to get a ring regardless, but it's a nice bonus to get the better pick.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
So a First, two seconds and two thirds next year. Hmmmmm maybe there is hope after all, draft 5 special teamers!!!
Gr00vus
Footballguy
A.J. will probably trade half of that to move up 3 spots in the 2nd round and pick up a new project FB. Then he'll find guys who will actually start for the team in the undrafted FA pile.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
lets shut this down.
Im starting the 2011 thread
Im starting the 2011 thread
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Anyone have 2 tickets for Thursday?
