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San Francisco School Board Votes to change names of 44 schools, including George Washington (1 Viewer)

STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I’m of the opinion you teach what and why they were wrong rather than erase them from history. Nobody is perfect. 
 

But let’s just sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. What could go wrong? 
 

San Francisco School Board Votes to Ban Founding Fathers
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Removing names from buildings is removing them from history?

Doesn't seem to say they are removing them from any curriculum and teaching.

Though, it still is has gotten out of hand with changing things for the sake of changing somethings.  No...the founders were not flawless, far from it (also would be nice for people to admit that in debates on policy rather than clinging to what the founders intended).  And I agree...learn from them...teach more about the good and the bad (especially in relations to how our country treated people in the past...as we have ignored those lessons about native americans for a long long time).

Also...newsmax...ugh, terrible headline.  I read more about it from https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2021/01/27/san-francisco-votes-to-remove-founding-fathers-names-from-schools-at-up-to-1-million-in-taxpayer-expense/?sh=75f9b11a354b  Not trying to board cop, but newsmax is an awful source and I won't give many clicks to such places that pushed the Trump election was stolen narrative.

 
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If I’m reading the article correctly the vote was to rename the schools - not erase the historical figures from the history books. 
 

Not saying I agree with the former or think it’s a good decision, but your opening post and thread title doesn’t appear to match the article and what occurred seems less outrageous as a “ban.”

 
Zow said:
If I’m reading the article correctly the vote was to rename the schools - not erase the historical figures from the history books. 
 

Not saying I agree with the former or think it’s a good decision, but your opening post and thread title doesn’t appear to match the article and what occurred seems less outrageous as a “ban.”
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Oh, we’re not using hyperbole and misleading headlines anymore? 

ETA- That was a snarky comment and not directed at you. I need a break. #### is getting out of hand. 

 
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This is where the line is going to keep being moved. Now it's that it's really their choice about their school board. And it's not removing them from history, just from the buildings. Watch it. It started with commemorations of the Confederacy and in its purity has moved to the Founders. I've been saying all along it would, and the same people now apologizing for the brave school board in California in this way are the same ones assuring me it wouldn't happen when this started many years ago, on this very board.

I am telling you. It is largely a communist/socialist impulse driving this. Sensible people don't do this. These people are not sensible.

They're ####### commies, through and through.

 
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Even Senator Feinstein got cancelled.  
 

Current Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., also will see her name removed because, as the city’s mayor, she replaced a Confederate flag that had been vandalized at City Hall.

 

 
rockaction said:
This is where the line is going to keep being moved. Now it's that it's really their choice about their school board. And it's not removing them from history, just from the buildings. Watch it. It started with commemorations of the Confederacy and in its purity has moved to the Founders. I've been saying all along it would, and the same people now apologizing for the brave school board in California in this way are the same ones assuring me it wouldn't happen when this started many years ago, on this very board.

I am telling you. It is largely a communist/socialist impulse driving this. Sensible people don't do this. These people are not sensible.

They're ####### commies, through and through.
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I saw somebody else yesterday make the observation that stripping names off of schools and assigning them numbers instead is the kind of thing we would make fun of if the Soviets were doing it.  That's a good point, but I think a better analogy is to puritanism.  Renaming Feinstein elementary because of one debatable policy decision she made decades ago reminds me a lot of the people who wanted Harry Potter removed from school libraries because of witchcraft or something.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
I saw somebody else yesterday make the observation that stripping names off of schools and assigning them numbers instead is the kind of thing we would make fun of if the Soviets were doing it.  That's a good point, but I think a better analogy is to puritanism.  Renaming Feinstein elementary because of one debatable policy decision she made decades ago reminds me a lot of the people who wanted Harry Potter removed from school libraries because of witchcraft or something.
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Heh. Oh, I agree with the Puritanism factor, too, how it cancels down to the most benign minutiae. I just think that urge to purge is distinctly traceable to the school board's politics, too, rather than just its American religious impulses. And I think I just like using the word "commie" unironically because if it would befit any body of people as a stereotype, it's the San Francisco School Board that would likely get the designation used properly against it. Them and Cambridge, Mass., though Cambridge is more high brow socialist and less commie Pravda.

 
It's funny, I was going to use the phrase "most niggling of details" but then thought of that guy who got fired and figured I could rephrase. But "niggling of details" sounds better and is a better word. Funny how the New Puritans have revamped language and discourse to their liking. #### them.

 
People are getting outraged for the wrong reasons.

It's not dumb because historical figures were "canceled"; it's dumb because the entire endeavor is a waste of taxpayer money.

 
Sea Duck said:
People are getting outraged for the wrong reasons.

It's not dumb because historical figures were "canceled"; it's dumb because the entire endeavor is a waste of taxpayer money.
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No, I'm pretty sure you have the wrong idea of what is dumb about it.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I saw somebody else yesterday make the observation that stripping names off of schools and assigning them numbers instead is the kind of thing we would make fun of if the Soviets were doing it.  That's a good point, but I think a better analogy is to puritanism.  Renaming Feinstein elementary because of one debatable policy decision she made decades ago reminds me a lot of the people who wanted Harry Potter removed from school libraries because of witchcraft or something.
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Ideological subversion has been planted and cultivated in the US over 30-40 years ago and now is coming to harvest.

 
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Since this is a local issues and has not effect on my life 1500 miles away, I probably shouldn't say anything.  But I don't care.

 
Mile High said:
Since this is a local issues and has not effect on my life 1500 miles away, I probably shouldn't say anything.  But I don't care.
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Saw on the news last night that locals are not happy with the school board.  In the middle of a pandemic with teachers and kids struggling to teach and attend classes, the school shutdowns and all the other issues  going on right now that the board is actually wasting their time on this.  Remember it is only 7 people deciding this.  Not the community.

 
JAA said:
States rights.  Keep politics local.
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That's pretty much how I feel about all this local stuff. We will never be able to heal if people are going to argue over things they have no control over. Go after the President all you want, you actually have a voice there. Quit focusing about look what's happening way over there.

 
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jon_mx said:
JAA said:
States rights.  Keep politics local.
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And National laughing stock.
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Isn't there a saying about sticks and stones?

I would encourage you to have thicker skin.  I went to school in the poorest state in the nation.  The same state who was (is) the continued butt of jokes.  We need to stop having a moral high ground with state vs state. 

 
Mile High said:
That's pretty much how I feel about all this local stuff. We will never be able to heal if people are going to argue over things they have no control over. Go after the President all you want, you actually have a voice there. Quit focusing about look what's happening way over there.
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I live in Oregon where we have hitched our political wagon to Cali and washington so it's hard to not pay attention to whats going on in these bastions of liberal governance

 
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JAA said:
Isn't there a saying about sticks and stones?

I would encourage you to have thicker skin.  I went to school in the poorest state in the nation.  The same state who was (is) the continued butt of jokes.  We need to stop having a moral high ground with state vs state. 
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It is an ignorant policy which deserves ridicule.  It has nothing to do with me or my thickness of skin or state vs. state.  

 
There is nothing about federalism implicated in criticizing a school board for measures like this. There's nothing wrong with someone in CT or in another CA locality (which is where I am) commenting on what San Francisco does with their schools. It is indeed the United States of America and we're generally all implicated in what each other does locally to some extent. Think about the non-interracial/segregated proms still going on in Mississippi. Are those not subject to criticism from outsiders?

It's a measure taken to assuage one side of the historicism debate, which isn't dumb, but comes awfully, awfully close to not understanding history. Should they change the names of the schools to John Brown High School? That's up to localities to decide, but is still subject to criticism from outsiders.

 
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In a shocking non-twist, it appears that the folks making these decisions had no real idea what they were doing. They straight up made factual errors in decision making and at times even relied solely on sources like a top 10 list on the History Channel’s website to make decisions (which they apparently didn’t even bother fully reading and got the conclusion wrong).

 
GroveDiesel said:
In a shocking non-twist, it appears that the folks making these decisions had no real idea what they were doing. They straight up made factual errors in decision making and at times even relied solely on sources like a top 10 list on the History Channel’s website to make decisions (which they apparently didn’t even bother fully reading and got the conclusion wrong).
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From the op-ed/article you cite, obviously written by a man, who, if he isn't left, would be a surprising revelation to me.

Leon Litwack, a UC Berkeley professor emeritus and the Pulitzer-winning author of Been in the Storm So Long: The Aftermath of Slavery, is blunter.

“This is taking things too far,” he says. “Lincoln is one of our great presidents. Maybe the greatest. I am very supportive of the efforts to remove the names of slave-holders. I never thought about the possibility this could include people like Lincoln.”

But perhaps Lincoln — or many of the 43 other vanquished names — isn’t the ultimate target here. 

“Lincoln is a symbol of America,” says Foner. “He’s not the same as, say, Jubal Early, a Confederate general. He’s one of the key symbols of America. One of the reasons people may find it appealing to take Lincoln’s name down is, if you have a powerful critique of America, you’re saying something about society more than just Lincoln.”

______________________________________________________

And this is the logic behind my allegation calling them commies. There's always a hidden anti-American, socialist, or communist agenda in these things. You just need to drill down a little far enough to see it, but it's inevitably there.

 
Roy L Fewks said:
If they decide to start using a numbering system, then I hope one of them is "80085"
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Do they have enough schools to warrant both 7734 and 8008135?

But seriously, they appear to have done zero homework, because I heard that they were going to change schools that were named after Lincoln, the guy who actually freed everybody.

 
rockaction said:
From the op-ed/article you cite, obviously written by a man, who, if he isn't left, would be a surprising revelation to me.

Leon Litwack, a UC Berkeley professor emeritus and the Pulitzer-winning author of Been in the Storm So Long: The Aftermath of Slavery, is blunter.

“This is taking things too far,” he says. “Lincoln is one of our great presidents. Maybe the greatest. I am very supportive of the efforts to remove the names of slave-holders. I never thought about the possibility this could include people like Lincoln.”

But perhaps Lincoln — or many of the 43 other vanquished names — isn’t the ultimate target here. 

“Lincoln is a symbol of America,” says Foner. “He’s not the same as, say, Jubal Early, a Confederate general. He’s one of the key symbols of America. One of the reasons people may find it appealing to take Lincoln’s name down is, if you have a powerful critique of America, you’re saying something about society more than just Lincoln.”

______________________________________________________

And this is the logic behind my allegation calling them commies. There's always a hidden anti-American, socialist, or communist agenda in these things. You just need to drill down a little far enough to see it, but it's inevitably there.
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The only good to come out of this is someone will be offended by these actions in 100 years.  

 
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jon_mx said:
JAA said:
Isn't there a saying about sticks and stones?

I would encourage you to have thicker skin.  I went to school in the poorest state in the nation.  The same state who was (is) the continued butt of jokes.  We need to stop having a moral high ground with state vs state. 
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It is an ignorant policy which deserves ridicule.  It has nothing to do with me or my thickness of skin or state vs. state.
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Individuals contact complaining about what other states do is absolutely their inability to live with the fact other people want to do things differently.

Ill repeat - Imagine if the federal govt tried to tell Mississippi or Alabama how to name their schools?  Cmon - plz

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I saw somebody else yesterday make the observation that stripping names off of schools and assigning them numbers instead is the kind of thing we would make fun of if the Soviets were doing it.  That's a good point, but I think a better analogy is to puritanism.  Renaming Feinstein elementary because of one debatable policy decision she made decades ago reminds me a lot of the people who wanted Harry Potter removed from school libraries because of witchcraft or something.
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Laugh now, the country is about to be overrun with witches.

 
rockaction said:
From the op-ed/article you cite, obviously written by a man, who, if he isn't left, would be a surprising revelation to me.

Leon Litwack, a UC Berkeley professor emeritus and the Pulitzer-winning author of Been in the Storm So Long: The Aftermath of Slavery, is blunter.

“This is taking things too far,” he says. “Lincoln is one of our great presidents. Maybe the greatest. I am very supportive of the efforts to remove the names of slave-holders. I never thought about the possibility this could include people like Lincoln.”

But perhaps Lincoln — or many of the 43 other vanquished names — isn’t the ultimate target here. 

“Lincoln is a symbol of America,” says Foner. “He’s not the same as, say, Jubal Early, a Confederate general. He’s one of the key symbols of America. One of the reasons people may find it appealing to take Lincoln’s name down is, if you have a powerful critique of America, you’re saying something about society more than just Lincoln.”

______________________________________________________

And this is the logic behind my allegation calling them commies. There's always a hidden anti-American, socialist, or communist agenda in these things. You just need to drill down a little far enough to see it, but it's inevitably there.
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You know it’s always important to use words correctly because of their power. These folks are obviously very critical of America’s history. In some cases, even in the example of Lincoln,  that criticism is justified. But it is also quite often unfair. That doesn’t make them anti-American. (I’m not even convinced that someone who calls himself anti-American is necessarily anti-American- I can think of plenty of examples to the contrary. ) 

I also see no evidence that they’re communists or socialists- again that has a pretty specific meaning. 

 
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timschochet said:
You know it’s always important to use words correctly because of their power. These folks are obviously very critical of America’s history. In some cases, even in the example of Lincoln,  that criticism is justified. But it is also quite often unfair. That doesn’t make them anti-American. (I’m not even convinced that someone who calls himself anti-American is necessarily anti-American- I can think of plenty of examples to the contrary. ) 

I also see no evidence that they’re communists or socialists- again that has a pretty specific meaning. 
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Here’s my concern, no one is infallible or perfect.  So given that benchmark, the solution, if we as a country go this route, is name every school as a number.  Right?  

 
So I remember that numerous fbgs liberal posters gave me a hard time when news came out that sf board recommended removing schools names.  Their response was, it’s only a recommendation so relax.  Here we are......

 
stlrams said:
Here’s my concern, no one is infallible or perfect.  So given that benchmark, the solution, if we as a country go this route, is name every school as a number.  Right?  
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Of course. It’s a terrible idea. 
In Long Beach we have Woodrow Wilson High School. Wilson, a Democrat and still regarded by some as a liberal icon, was a horrible President. Among other things, he was probably the worst racist President of the 20th  Century, possibly ever. 
So if I was the principal at that high school I would insist that all students were taught about Wilson: his achievements, his many flaws, his terrible infringements of our liberties. And then I would keep the name. 
 

But that’s just me. I don’t think it’s wise to attempt to remove history both good and bad. 

 
timschochet said:
Of course. It’s a terrible idea. 
In Long Beach we have Woodrow Wilson High School. Wilson, a Democrat and still regarded by some as a liberal icon, was a horrible President. Among other things, he was probably the worst racist President of the 20th  Century, possibly ever. 
So if I was the principal at that high school I would insist that all students were taught about Wilson: his achievements, his many flaws, his terrible infringements of our liberties. And then I would keep the name. 
 

But that’s just me. I don’t think it’s wise to attempt to remove history both good and bad. 
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:goodposting:   You're on fire today.  You should get banned more often. ;)

 
timschochet said:
Of course. It’s a terrible idea. 
In Long Beach we have Woodrow Wilson High School. Wilson, a Democrat and still regarded by some as a liberal icon, was a horrible President. Among other things, he was probably the worst racist President of the 20th  Century, possibly ever. 
So if I was the principal at that high school I would insist that all students were taught about Wilson: his achievements, his many flaws, his terrible infringements of our liberties. And then I would keep the name. 
 

But that’s just me. I don’t think it’s wise to attempt to remove history both good and bad. 
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Funny you should say that but next town over from me in Connecticut renamed their middle school from Woodrow Wilson because he maintained a segregated White House.  He was a professor at Wesleyan in Middletown, ct.  

 
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