Schilling's Career Likely Over (1 Viewer)

[PatsWillWin]

Don't have a link because Schilling is revealing this on an EEI interview right now. He started off by admitting that he needs another shoulder surgery that will definitely mean he will not be able to pitch this season. He then went on to pretty much say that his career is done - absolute best case scenario would be for him to come back around the All-Star break next year and pitch for half a season, but he honestly sounded like it wasn't going to happen.

So just an FYI. He was also asked if he was going to "be around" the team at all anymore, and he said that for his family's sake he'd like to "pull a Mark McGwuire."

 

[TLEF316]

cant say I'm sad to see him go, because i think he's a loud mouth jerk face. However, I have to respect him, because he just slaughtered the Yankees in big spots. Easy Hall of Fame choice

 

[shadyridr]

In my best Seinfeld voice, "Thats a shame"

 

[David Yudkin]

Schilling to have surgery, done for season

by Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff June 20, 2008 09:22 AM

Curt Schilling's season is over, and his career may be over as well. The Red Sox righthander said this morning that he is going to have surgery on his right shoulder Monday in Philadelphia, and that there was a "pretty decent chance that I've thrown my last pitch forever."

"I'm not exactly sure [what type of surgery it's going to be]," Schilling said this morning on WEEI's Dennis and Callahan show. "We're still nailing down exactly what kind of surgery it's going to be."

When asked if this will end his season, he replied, "yes."

"I'm going in to make it not hurt anymore," Schilling said.

We'll have more on this in a bit ...

LINK

 

[PatsWillWin]

He started off with the "decent chance" remark, but the rest of the conversation was talking about he had no regrets, he hated going out this way, but he was at peace with everything, etc.

 

[Darth Cheney]

cant say I'm sad to see him go, because i think he's a loud mouth jerk face. However, I have to respect him, because he just slaughtered the Yankees in big spots. Easy Hall of Fame choice

ummmm no.

 

[Michael Brown]

cant say I'm sad to see him go, because i think he's a loud mouth jerk face. However, I have to respect him, because he just slaughtered the Yankees in big spots. Easy Hall of Fame choice

ummmm no.

Perhaps not easy, but he does have a strong case.200 Wins

3,000 K's

Three 20-win seasons

Three 300 strikeout seasons

Three WS rings

1 NLCS MVP

1 WS co-MVP (a joke, but he still has it)

Six-time All-Star

11-2 postseason record with a 2.23 ERA (including 4-1 in WS games)

He's hurt by not having compiled more numbers (not being a full-time starter until he was 26) and not having a Cy Young award to his credit. But I'd say that's pretty much negated by coming to Boston and leading them to their first WS win in 86 years and being arguably the best big-game pitcher of his era.

 

[Knightro]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

I, for one, am sorry to see him go. Dude was one of the most 'money' SP in playoff history. If I wanted to win a game 7, he'd be my choice of all the modern day SPs.

 

[shadyridr]

cant say I'm sad to see him go, because i think he's a loud mouth jerk face. However, I have to respect him, because he just slaughtered the Yankees in big spots. Easy Hall of Fame choice

lunacy

 

[shadyridr]

I, for one, am sorry to see him go. Dude was one of the most 'money' SP in playoff history. If I wanted to win a game 7, he'd be my choice of all the modern day SPs.

SmoltzYou realize Curt wouldve been the losing pitcher of Game 7 of the 2001 WS if it wasnt for Mariano?

 

[shadyridr]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out. 200 wins will hurt him3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water6 time AS - helpspost-season record, helpsHe will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

I have a feeling the bloody sock game gets him in. I dont think he deserves to be in.

 

[Finless]

I's a shame. He was one of the best pitchers ever. Probably top 10-15 when all's said and done.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I's a shame. He was one of the best pitchers ever. Probably top 10-15 when all's said and done.

Top 10 -15 of his era.As for all time...... maybe ranks somewhere in the 40s or 50s

 

[Capella]

No way in hell he pulls a Big Mac. Dude craves attention. Guarantee you he's on Fox this postseason.

 

[MAC_32]

Simply stunning.

 

[Michael Brown]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

Off the top of my head, Nolan Ryan.ETA: Upon further review, Sutton/Niekro/Bunning. And I'll agree that Ryan/Sutton/Niekro have the 300 win plateau and Bunning was a veteran's committee guy. I don't know that compiling the wins matters as much anymore. Case in point: if Mike Mussina gets anywhere near 300 wins and they put him in, there's no justification for not putting in Schilling.

 

[Workhorse]

44th on the career WHIP list.

42nd on the career ERA+ list, 12 seasons with an ERA+ over 120!

2nd on the career K/BB ratio list.

14th in career Ks

11-2, 2.29 ERA in the postseason.

Schilling will make it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Easy Hall of Fame choice

X

 

[Darth Cheney]

44th on the career WHIP list.42nd on the career ERA+ list, 12 seasons with an ERA+ over 120!2nd on the career K/BB ratio list.14th in career Ks11-2, 2.29 ERA in the postseason.Schilling will make it.

Kevin Brown (920) Bob Welch (900) Orel Hershiser (889) Mike Mussina (888) Freddie Fitzsimmons (884) John Smoltz (880) Milt Pappas (880) Don Drysdale (875) * Dazzy Vance (873) * Jim Perry (871)That's not exactly slam dunk company.FTR, I think he'll get in.... but only because the "idea" of Curt Schilling is more vivid in the minds of people than the real numbers of the guy. A pundit on XM said that he would get in because he was seen as an intregal part of the Sox two WS wins....( he compared him to some guys on the Yankee dynasties who have bubble....or less than bubble number but got in because of all the postseason success they had). Another guy (which I don't agree with) said that he should get in because the success he had in Boston (with it and the AL East being the pressurs cooker that it has been) would be viewed as more valid then if he did it elsewhere...(maybe the reason someone like Bert Blyleven or Jack Morris aren't in).

 

[David Yudkin]

Schilling should likely be considered in the running for 6th best in his era after (in some order): Clemens, Johnson, Glavine, Maddux, Pedro. IMO, it's been him and Smoltz for the next spot.

In terms of HOF Monitor scores (with 100 considered a HOFer):

Clemens 331

Johnson 322

Maddux 255

Pedro 204

Glavine 176

Schilling 171

Smoltz 167

The next closest active starter is Mussina at 115. Jack Morris scores 122 and Blyleven 120.

I think Schilling will make it, probably not first ballot, but he'll earn more votes as the years go by and should make it in after maybe 5 years of eligibilty.

 

[bostonfred]

True that he never won a Cy Young, but he was second in Cy voting three times, twice to his teammate Randy Johnson and once to Johan Santana. All three times he won over 20 games, including a sub 3.0 ERA year in 2001 where he won 22 games on 256 innings pitched including 6 complete games while striking out 293 and leading them to the first World Series in franchise history. So it's hard to knock him for not winning a Cy.

Having said that, when he goes in, will it be as a Red Sox, Philly or Diamondback? He played by far the longest as a Philly, but had his best seasons and won his first championship with the D Backs, but won two championships with the Red Sox, plus, of course, the bloody sock game.

 

[Balco]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Boston fans as usual really reaching in this thread with CG totals. Schilling had 83 complete games over his career, that's not impressive.

He won't be first, third, or fifth ballot and people have to remember that after time passes these playoff performances lose their value. Jack Morris' post season performances in '84 and '91 are as impressive as Schillings as far as impact and Morris was also the best pitcher in his league for a decade. He never won a Cy Young either.

Blyleven getting in is key for Schilling because Schilling will not get in if Blyleven doesn't. These writers are very finicky as demonstrated by how long it took Goose Goosage to get in a guy who had more impact on the game than Schilling had. I think Smoltz is ahead of Schilling based on his three amazing years as a reliever, his Cy Young season, and his playoff performances are Schilling's equal.

Schilling is a borderline candidate and we can't predict what those writers will do especially with an abrasive personality such as Schilling and also factoring in who will be eligible in the seasons five years after Schilling is eligible to go in (2019?). I'm not saying he doesn't deserve consideration and he had a very good career, but it's very borderline.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

 

[Balco]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations? I am a Red Sox fan, and Schilling, in my eyes, is certainly not a 1st ballot hall of famer. I tend to agree with the person who said he is more of a veterans committee guy. Unless the media or friends in the community take up his plight and basically shove him down everyone's throats (i.e. Gossage, Rizzuto. Mazeroski).

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations?

Are you comparing Schilling to Pedro and Sandy? Seriously?

 

[Balco]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations?

Are you comparing Schilling to Pedro and Sandy? Seriously?

Where in my post did I compare them? Where in my post did I say that Schilling is a first ballot hall of famer? Thanks in advance.

 

[Finless]

Curt Schilling changed the game. If he doesn't go in first ballot, I'm writing off the sport.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Curt Schilling changed the game. If he doesn't go in first ballot, I'm writing off the sport.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations?

Are you comparing Schilling to Pedro and Sandy? Seriously?

Where in my post did I compare them? Where in my post did I say that Schilling is a first ballot hall of famer? Thanks in advance.

You are talking about guys like Schilling pitching in the 5 man rotation era then throw out exemptions like Pedro and Koufax. Why don't you start a benchmark thread? Might be a good conversation.

 

[Balco]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations?

Are you comparing Schilling to Pedro and Sandy? Seriously?

Where in my post did I compare them? Where in my post did I say that Schilling is a first ballot hall of famer? Thanks in advance.

You are talking about guys like Schilling pitching in the 5 man rotation era then throw out exemptions like Pedro and Koufax. Why don't you start a benchmark thread? Might be a good conversation.

Sorry for the confusion. I guess it could be inferred from my benchmark question that I was talking about Schilling. I was more responding to the 300 game benchmark that someone threw out regarding hall worthiness.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would have a hard time voting for a pitcher to be in the Hall of Fame that was never voted the best pitcher in any season. I don't believe there is another starting pitcher in the HOF that could state that case that was active when the award was given out.

200 wins will hurt him

3000 K's doesn't mean much - ask Blyleven

3 WS rings - more of a team thing, but that holds water

6 time AS - helps

post-season record, helps

He will probably be a Veterans Committee type guy.

Not arguing whether Schilling will or will not get in, but in today's age of the 5 man rotation, I don't think 300 wins should be the benchmark anymore.

Why? Glavine did it. There are always exceptions like Pedro Martinez but Schilling is not an exception. Basically Schilling has four very good years, a great playoff record, and a lot of injury filled and meh years.

You don't see why 300 games should be the benchmark in the era of 5 man rotations? Seriously? And there will be more than just Pedro exceptions, just like Koufax was an exeption years ago. You think recent pitchers elected would get in if they played during with 5 man rotations?

Are you comparing Schilling to Pedro and Sandy? Seriously?

Where in my post did I compare them? Where in my post did I say that Schilling is a first ballot hall of famer? Thanks in advance.

You are talking about guys like Schilling pitching in the 5 man rotation era then throw out exemptions like Pedro and Koufax. Why don't you start a benchmark thread? Might be a good conversation.

Sorry for the confusion. I guess it could be inferred from my benchmark question that I was talking about Schilling. I was more responding to the 300 game benchmark that someone threw out regarding hall worthiness.

I generally like HOF discussions and I don't hate any players based on the teams they play with, just the teams themselves. Just to clarify for anyone knowing I really despise the Red Sox.

 

[Darth Cheney]

In terms of peers, I don't think that Schill belongs in top category of pitchers of his generation...( that being IMO the all time great names, The Big Unit, Pedro, Maddux, Clemens and at the bottom of this list Smoltz and Glavine).

I think that Schill is at the top of the 1A category...guys who had dominant years or even stretches... but who are only great pitchers of their era.....this would be guys like Kevin Brown, David Cone and Mike Mussina.

That being said, if Schilling goes in on a strong first ballot.....that would help the case of a Mike Mussina....as their career numbers are fairly similar. (someone who I am sure that pro-Schil people think only belongs in the HOF if he buys a ticket).

 

[Balco]

In terms of peers, I don't think that Schill belongs in top category of pitchers of his generation...( that being IMO the all time great names, The Big Unit, Pedro, Maddux, Clemens and at the bottom of this list Smoltz and Glavine).I think that Schill is at the top of the 1A category...guys who had dominant years or even stretches... but who are only great pitchers of their era.....this would be guys like Kevin Brown, David Cone and Mike Mussina.That being said, if Schilling goes in on a strong first ballot.....that would help the case of a Mike Mussina....as their career numbers are fairly similar. (someone who I am sure that pro-Schil people think only belongs in the HOF if he buys a ticket).

You have to wonder, though, If Schillings great postseason success gives him the edge over those other guys you mentioned as 1A. 3 rings, and fantastic postseason pitching stats. I think Derek Jeter is going to be looked at the same way as Schilling. Both are probably not hall worthy (although Jeter still has plenty of time to make his case), but their postseason success might push them in. (again, not arguing whether this is fair or not).

 

[Darth Cheney]

In terms of peers, I don't think that Schill belongs in top category of pitchers of his generation...( that being IMO the all time great names, The Big Unit, Pedro, Maddux, Clemens and at the bottom of this list Smoltz and Glavine).I think that Schill is at the top of the 1A category...guys who had dominant years or even stretches... but who are only great pitchers of their era.....this would be guys like Kevin Brown, David Cone and Mike Mussina.That being said, if Schilling goes in on a strong first ballot.....that would help the case of a Mike Mussina....as their career numbers are fairly similar. (someone who I am sure that pro-Schil people think only belongs in the HOF if he buys a ticket).

You have to wonder, though, If Schillings great postseason success gives him the edge over those other guys you mentioned as 1A. 3 rings, and fantastic postseason pitching stats. I think Derek Jeter is going to be looked at the same way as Schilling. Both are probably not hall worthy (although Jeter still has plenty of time to make his case), but their postseason success might push them in. (again, not arguing whether this is fair or not).

Definitely....as I don't think that Brown or Cone deserve to be in the HOF. If Mussina plays a couple of more years....I think he will get in based on compiling numbers (he has an outside shot of 300 wins).