Sean Taylor's killers caught (1 Viewer)

[Sleeper 43]

ABC News , Washington DC , WJLA

The Miami-Dade Police Department arrested four people Friday in connection with the fatal shooting of Washington Redskins star Sean Taylor.

Police spokeswoman Linda O'Brien identified the men as: Venjah K. Hunte, 20; Eric Rivera Jr., 17; Jason Scott Mitchell, 17; and Charles Kendrick Lee Wardlow, 18.

The suspects weren't expecting Taylor to be home, police director Robert Parker said, but Taylor was recuperating from a knee injury and had returned to Miami from Washington.

They were certainly not looking to go there and kill anyone," Parker said. He added authorities had more than one confession but would not elaborate.

"We're looking into whether or not one or more of the individuals had been at the residence before," Parker said.

The Miami Herald reported investigators believe the men learned of Taylor's house through someone who unwittingly set up the burglary by bragging about Taylor's wealth.

 

[krameruf]

Good info here also.

http://www.miamiherald.com/

 

[[scooter]]

So, no black KKK then?

 

[North]

Good. Now some of these insensitive idiots can stop assuming that it was somehow Sean's fault. It doesn't matter who you are or who you hang with, anyones house can be broken into.

It's also funny to see that now the news comes out Sean wasn't involved you're getting a lot more fluff stories on Sean's life. When the story first broke most of the stories were on his troubled past which really upset many. It just goes to show how low the media will stoop to get noticed. Now that this news has broke I have seen two new stories about what a "caring and giving" person he was. Where were these stories two days ago?

 

[Raider Nation]

When you have multiple perps, I wonder if it works the way you see it on NYPD Blue.

Get 'em in different rooms, and tell each of them whomever rolls first will get the best deal?

 

[Colin Dowling]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

 

[[scooter]]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Please don't mention those 4 in the same sentence as Taylor, his fiance, and his child. Not cool.

 

[Colin Dowling]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Please don't mention those 4 in the same sentence as Taylor, his fiance, and his child. Not cool.

I mentioned that their lives are also ruined. Why is that troublesome? Try not to get worked up; I'm capable of distinguishing the difference between a victim and a perp.

 

[Facenda's Voice]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Please don't mention those 4 in the same sentence as Taylor, his fiance, and his child. Not cool.

good god.

 

[Harjiran]

So they weren't expecting him to be home ... oh, but he is home, so let's go out of our way to kick in his locked bedroom door and fire a couple of random shots at Sean, his girlfriend and baby. Classy. Yes, their lives are ruined, and maybe their loved ones' lives are ruined too, but at least they are still alive. Sean Taylor is dead, as a direct result of their sociopathy. If they are proven to be guilty, lock them up and throw away the key. I will feel no sympathy for these idiots.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

ABC News , Washington DC , WJLA

Police spokeswoman Linda O'Brien identified the men as: Venjah K. Hunte, 20; Eric Rivera Jr., 17; Jason Scott Mitchell, 17; and Charles Kendrick Lee Wardlow, 18.

Having your life taken by a bunch of teens is definitely not cool.

 

[SuperJohn96]

Look, COlin is my sworn Mortal Enemy, but you guys attacking his post about lives ruined are complete and utter morons.

He's not equating the perps with the victims other than their lives are all changed for the worse. And he's not even saying one is worse off than the other, just that they are all worse off no. Good God some of you people are so stupid.

One guy is dead, one wife is a widow, one child has no father, and four people will go to jail for murder.

How hard is it to understand the lives of all 7 people are now ruined?

 

[Popinski]

Good. Now some of these insensitive idiots can stop assuming that it was somehow Sean's fault. It doesn't matter who you are or who you hang with, anyones house can be broken into.

The insensitive idiots will probably use the fact that it appears Taylor knew some of them as support that Taylor hung out with the wrong people and it came back to end his life.

 

[Green Apple Splatter]

Good. Now some of these insensitive idiots can stop assuming that it was somehow Sean's fault. It doesn't matter who you are or who you hang with, anyones house can be broken into.

The insensitive idiots will probably use the fact that it appears Taylor knew some of them as support that Taylor hung out with the wrong people and it came back to end his life.

....and what part of that isn't the truth?

 

[Popinski]

Good. Now some of these insensitive idiots can stop assuming that it was somehow Sean's fault. It doesn't matter who you are or who you hang with, anyones house can be broken into.

The insensitive idiots will probably use the fact that it appears Taylor knew some of them as support that Taylor hung out with the wrong people and it came back to end his life.

....and what part of that isn't the truth?

Probably something to do with the strong suggestion from the media in question that this was a retaliation for something Taylor had done in the past.

 

[fatness]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Yes. 3 by the actions of others. 4 by their own actions.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

According to the Miami Herald, 1 of the perps was at Sean Taylor's house about 2 months ago for a party. So the perps knew what was in the home and at least some clue of the layout of the home.

So I guess we can end all the talk of Sean getting shot because he "did something" and focus on the sad sad reality that 4 young men felt they could break into a home, take what wasn't theirs, and also end a life along the way when they got spooked. They went from maybe being arrested for breaking and entering to murder 1. And the problem is there are lots of folks like them walking around the streets everywhere.

Colin was simply echoing this, and might have come off like he felt sorry for the perps, Im sure he was just talking about the sad situation of young men in this country. It really belongs in the FFA, and maybe he will start a thread on that issue in there.

The whole story is sad from top to bottom.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

According to the Miami Herald, 1 of the perps was at Sean Taylor's house about 2 months ago for a party. So the perps knew what was in the home and at least some clue of the layout of the home. So I guess we can end all the talk of Sean getting shot because he "did something" and focus on the sad sad reality that 4 young men felt they could break into a home, take what wasn't theirs, and also end a life along the way when they got spooked. They went from maybe being arrested for breaking and entering to murder 1. And the problem is there are lots of folks like them walking around the streets everywhere. Colin was simply echoing this, and might have come off like he felt sorry for the perps, Im sure he was just talking about the sad situation of young men in this country. It really belongs in the FFA, and maybe he will start a thread on that issue in there.The whole story is sad from top to bottom.

What I don't understand is - why didn't the thieves get out of the house at the first sign of realizing that someone was in the home. Reports say that Sean knew one of the guys and his girlfriend knew one of the others. That part I don't get. Did we find out which one pulled the trigger yet?

 

[cobalt_27]

Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to say that those 4 folks have just ruined their own lives. To say that their lives have been ruined takes on a passive tone. They did it to themselves (assuming they're guilty, of course).

Very different than what happened to the Taylor family.

 

[redman]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

And of course their families too. It's very tragic, stupid and wasteful. Unreal.

 

[fatness]

Bond denied for 3 in Taylor slaying

FORT MYERS --

Three of the four men charged in the death of Washington Redskins star Sean Taylor were denied bond early Saturday in Lee County Circuit Court.

Venjah Hunte, 20, Eric Rivera, 17, and Charles Wardlow, 18, were charged with felony murder, home invasion and armed robbery. A fourth man, Jason Scott Mitchell, 19, faces the same counts although he did not appear in court. He will make his first appearance Sunday morning. Under Florida law, anyone who commits a violent felony in which a death occurs can face a murder charge.

Wilber Smith, an attorney representing Rivera, called the incident a tragedy. ''This is my take: There is going to be a speedy resolution to this. Obviously, police have gotten some statements from some of the defendants and so they will testify against those who haven't,'' Smith said. Miami-Dade police say the four men broke into Taylor's Palmetto Bay home, intent on stealing, not killing.

At least one of them, Mitchell, had attended a birthday party at the home for Taylor's sister in recent months. Also, Wardlow is a cousin of the man dating Taylor's sister, who had been staying at the home off-and-on.

Miami-Dade homicide detectives believe the men did not know Taylor was home. He would have played in Tampa earlier in the day had he not injured his knee. The former University of Miami star, wielding a machete, surprised the burglars as his wife and daughter hid under the covers. ''One of the participants had a firearm. Sean Taylor was shot by one of the participants during the commission of the armed burglar,'' according to an arrest report by Miami-Dade Detective Juan Segovia.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

According to the Miami Herald, 1 of the perps was at Sean Taylor's house about 2 months ago for a party. So the perps knew what was in the home and at least some clue of the layout of the home.

FWIW, the arrests of mutiple suspects in such a short amount of time in a case where an on-site arrest was not made is very good police and lab work. From what has been reported, the suspects were from the west coast of FL which is a hundred and some miles from Miami. This leads me to believe latent prints were recovered from the home and matched to a person with prints on file (either someone that has been criminally charged previously, in the military, or in an occupation where a criminal history check-prints are required). Given the ages, and stereotypically the appearance, of the four individuals arrested; I'd say at least one had been arrested and the prints were on file in the FL fingerprint database. It is possible that the 18 and 20 yo were in the military but I doubt any were employed in a profession where pre-employment security/background checks would have been performed. Police definitely didn't have any blood work back this quickly that would have linked any of the suspects to the scene. Another possibility is that one or more of the individuals attempted to sell the weapon used, sell uniquely-identifiable property taken from Taylor's home, ran their mouth about the incident to someone that contacted police, someone saw a vehicle in the area near the time of the crime, neighborhood or a neighbors surveillance cameras recorded the vehicle in the area at the "right" time; anyway you look at it the police have done a very good job with this case so far. Now a little about the press and what agencies release to the press: If what the Herald is reporting is what is said up the in the quote, I'm surprised. If the guys have been charged the information becomes public, including names-ages-addresses. The details of the party or some relationship between suspect and victim is something that should not be released. Thinking its speculation. Even with high-profile cases such as this, the law enforcement agency releases the information that they want released. Beyond the: On such and such date and time, Joe-Blow law enforcement agency was called to the whatever hundred block of main street for the report of ??? gunshots? A 24 yo male was found with an apparent gunshot wound. Male was transported and is currently being treated at blah blah blaw Trauma Center. Initial indications are that the victim was shot during a botched robbery attempt. All press matters will be addressed tomorrow am at 0800 hrs. Law Enforcement attempts to control everything released, they contact the press when the case isn't progressing-essentially when they need help. Even then, limited information is released. When you sit down with the bad guy you always want to know more than he thinks you know...you lose that when press outlets report details. There have been few occassions when law enforcement contacts the press and releases anything for public safety, the released information is still very limited (DC Sniper Incident). Other than public safety there is nothing to gain by releasing anything to the press during the investigatory or prosecutorial phase of the case. There have been some leaks or information that is being reported as coming from police sources in this case that have surprised me: details of the prior break-inn, whether the bedroom door was locked-shut-kicked in-where Taylor was in the house when he was shot. What most don't comprehend is that the investigator's is to A.) determine as much as possible about the crime and how it occurred (this includes developing suspects-interviewing suspects, victims, etc-checking crime patterns in the immediate area, you get the point... and B.) present information to the prosecutor so that the accused are tried and convicted. The B part of the job is what most people don't understand. Typically the information released to the press during stages of the investigation does not help the prosecution. It does give the defense attorney more to work with.

 

[redman]

According to the Miami Herald, 1 of the perps was at Sean Taylor's house about 2 months ago for a party. So the perps knew what was in the home and at least some clue of the layout of the home.

FWIW, the arrests of mutiple suspects in such a short amount of time in a case where an on-site arrest was not made is very good police and lab work. From what has been reported, the suspects were from the west coast of FL which is a hundred and some miles from Miami. This leads me to believe latent prints were recovered from the home and matched to a person with prints on file (either someone that has been criminally charged previously, in the military, or in an occupation where a criminal history check-prints are required). Given the ages, and stereotypically the appearance, of the four individuals arrested; I'd say at least one had been arrested and the prints were on file in the FL fingerprint database. It is possible that the 18 and 20 yo were in the military but I doubt any were employed in a profession where pre-employment security/background checks would have been performed. Police definitely didn't have any blood work back this quickly that would have linked any of the suspects to the scene. Another possibility is that one or more of the individuals attempted to sell the weapon used, sell uniquely-identifiable property taken from Taylor's home, ran their mouth about the incident to someone that contacted police, someone saw a vehicle in the area near the time of the crime, neighborhood or a neighbors surveillance cameras recorded the vehicle in the area at the "right" time; anyway you look at it the police have done a very good job with this case so far. Now a little about the press and what agencies release to the press: If what the Herald is reporting is what is said up the in the quote, I'm surprised. If the guys have been charged the information becomes public, including names-ages-addresses. The details of the party or some relationship between suspect and victim is something that should not be released. Thinking its speculation. Even with high-profile cases such as this, the law enforcement agency released the information that they want released. Beyond the: on such and such date and time, Joe-Blow law enforcement agency was called to the whatever hundred block of main street for the report of ??? gunshots? A 24 yo male was found with an apparent gunshot wound. Male was transported and is currently being treated at blah blah blaw Trauma Center. Initial indications are that the victim was shot during a botched robbery attempt. All press matters will be addressed tomorrow am at 0800 hrs. Law Enforcement attempts to control everything released, they contact the press when the case isn't progressing-essentially when they need help. Even then, limited information is released. When you sit down with the bad guy you always want to know more than he thinks you know...you lose that when press outlets report details. There have been few occassions when law enforcement contacts the press and releases anything for public safety, the released information is still very limited (DC Sniper Incident). Other than public safety there is nothing to gain by releasing anything to the press during the investigatory or prosecutorial phase of the case. There have been some leaks or information that is being reported as coming from police sources in this case that have surprised me: details of the prior break-inn, whether the bedroom door was locked-shut-kicked in-where Taylor was in the house when he was shot. What most don't comprehend is that the investigator's is to A.) determine as much as possible about the crime and how it occurred (this includes developing suspects-interviewing suspects, victims, etc-checking crime patterns in the immediate area, you get the point... and B.) present information to the prosecutor so that the accused are tried and convicted. The B part of the job is what most people don't understand. Typically the information released to the press during stages of the investigation does not help the prosecution. It does give the defense attorney more to work with.

Good quote. Here's a few thoughts in response based upon my read of the media reports:1) tips from people were a huge part of finding the perps, apparently, and it looks like the perps ran with each other such that finding one made it fairly easy to figure out who else might be involved; 2) the information on this need not be coming exclusively from the cops given Taylor's sister's involvement as a link between her brother and these suspects, and given that the Taylor family has been talking with the media ever since the incident.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

According to the Miami Herald, 1 of the perps was at Sean Taylor's house about 2 months ago for a party. So the perps knew what was in the home and at least some clue of the layout of the home. So I guess we can end all the talk of Sean getting shot because he "did something" and focus on the sad sad reality that 4 young men felt they could break into a home, take what wasn't theirs, and also end a life along the way when they got spooked. They went from maybe being arrested for breaking and entering to murder 1. And the problem is there are lots of folks like them walking around the streets everywhere. Colin was simply echoing this, and might have come off like he felt sorry for the perps, Im sure he was just talking about the sad situation of young men in this country. It really belongs in the FFA, and maybe he will start a thread on that issue in there.The whole story is sad from top to bottom.

What I don't understand is - why didn't the thieves get out of the house at the first sign of realizing that someone was in the home. Reports say that Sean knew one of the guys and his girlfriend knew one of the others. That part I don't get. Did we find out which one pulled the trigger yet?

Good questions, I would only add Jeff, that knowing a perp doesn't mean things were OK...we all know people thru others and think to ourselves "I'll never be inviting that guy over" or whatever it is. I am thinking Sean Taylor might have known one or two of these guys but I doubt they were all buddies or anything.

 

[[scooter]]

Look, COlin is my sworn Mortal Enemy, but you guys attacking his post about lives ruined are complete and utter morons.

He's not equating the perps with the victims other than their lives are all changed for the worse. And he's not even saying one is worse off than the other, just that they are all worse off no. Good God some of you people are so stupid.

One guy is dead, one wife is a widow, one child has no father, and four people will go to jail for murder.

How hard is it to understand the lives of all 7 people are now ruined?

Because 4 of those individuals made a choice to ruin their lives. Of course some people will take offense to what Colin wrote and as a mod he shouldn't have posted that considering how much trouble has come from threads relating to Taylor this week.

A mod should know better.

Not to mention the fact that we really don't know the futures or the pasts of the 4 suspects. Maybe one of them already ruined his life through another act? Maybe another one will end up getting probation? Maybe jail would actually improve their lives? To spout off and put them on the exact same level as a guy who has been murdered -- i.e., his life truly has been ruined -- is irresponsible at best, and _____ at worst. And if you weren't a mod you can bet I'd be filling in those blanks.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

[Good quote. Here's a few thoughts in response based upon my read of the media reports:1) tips from people were a huge part of finding the perps, apparently, and it looks like the perps ran with each other such that finding one made it fairly easy to figure out who else might be involved; 2) the information on this need not be coming exclusively from the cops given Taylor's sister's involvement as a link between her brother and these suspects, and given that the Taylor family has been talking with the media ever since the incident.

Taylor's dad is a police chief, read the statements that have been related to him. He has talked primarily about his son and been very tight-lipped about aspects of the crime. I think the family understands that speaking to the media about the specifics of the case will only hinder investigatorial and prosecutorial aspects of this case. Someone is talking to the Herald that has some information, however. The ex-lawyer is rubbing me the wrong way, he was a freakin' defense attny and has attempted to make himself a spokesperson for the family. He has talked way too much, he is seeking the spotlight more than a "family friend" should, bet he releases a book right after the trial. Metro-Dade does have very good relationships with the Herald as well. The Herald and to a lesser extent, the Washington Post, have presented a lot of info. Hopefully both are confirming allegations with more than one anonymous source and are weighing the scoop against what is best for putting the people at fault away.

 

[PatrickT]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

The 4 perps ruined their own lives along with 3 others...4+3 =7?You can say it however you want but actually a lot more than 7 lives were ruined. You have a lot of teammates that were devastated, coaches, owners, fans, there is a long list of people that were affected and i think people are being hyper sensitive to Colin's remarks. I am a lifelong Canes fan, big Sean Taylor fan in his college days and I am not bothered by what Colin wrote, just let it go so we don't get a crummy thread going here.

 

[glock]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

The 4 perps ruined their own lives along with 3 others...4+3 =7?You can say it however you want but actually a lot more than 7 lives were ruined. You have a lot of teammates that were devastated, coaches, owners, fans, there is a long list of people that were affected and i think people are being hyper sensitive to Colin's remarks. I am a lifelong Canes fan, big Sean Taylor fan in his college days and I am not bothered by what Colin wrote, just let it go so we don't get a crummy thread going here.

Seriously... Too many attempts to read between lines around here lately.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

So, no black KKK then?

I guess everyone that read the editorial has a different take on it. The four male suspects are, in my mind, exactly what the author had in mind and described as the black KKK. So the answer to your question is yes. Four young black men are suspected in the events that resulted in the shooting death of another young black man. I haven't heard the NAACP or Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton comment on what a disgrace the death of Taylor was at the hands of four misguided black men. I don't think we will either. How many black men have been shot, stabbed, murdered in Washington DC and the state of Florida since the shooting of Taylor? I don't know and most don't either but I can guarantee more than half weren't reported by major media sources. More than 30 people have been shot in one metro city near me in a week, there is no outcry. There is no media report AT ALL in more than half of those shootings. 8 of the thirty have one line blurbs on the second page of the local section of the newspaper. Like I said, everyone took something different from that article.edit to add: And, in the city where more than 30 total shootings occurred the only criticism that is heard is of the police not doing their job. Somewhere along the line or maybe for the entire line, something wrong has happened to a person than can simple walk up and shoot-stab-strangle another person.

 

[mad sweeney]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

No, he doesn't. You yourself said the same thing, 7 lives were ruined. Other people put their own spin on what is said, regardless of what is actually said. And that's what starts 90% of the arguments in the SP. If someone says "A", then he must also mean "B" and is implying "C". When all that was actually said was "A". If people would just stop inferring stuff that isn't in a post, then a lot of disagreements would be avoided. The fact of the matter is, the 4 (possibly 5 including the driver they're looking for) guys have ruined their own lives. Colin didn't say they were victims, didn't infer they were not responsible. As a matter of fact, the biggest thing you can infer from his statement is that the whole mess was caused by something so stupid as a minor burglary, which clearly puts the onus of the tragedy on the 4 burglars. There's no liberal politics involved, Colin isn't eliciting sympathy for those guys, and anyone with half a brain, doesn't need it to be pointed out that Taylor and his family are in a completely different category of ruined than the 4 kids they arrested. But it doesn't change the fact that 7 lives (actually many more) were ruined by something so stupid as a botched burglary. And Colin didn't say anything that shifted the blame or who the victims were, if anything he slammed the boys for the worthlessness of their crime.

 

[ghosttothepost]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

The 4 perps ruined their own lives along with 3 others...4+3 =7?You can say it however you want but actually a lot more than 7 lives were ruined. You have a lot of teammates that were devastated, coaches, owners, fans, there is a long list of people that were affected and i think people are being hyper sensitive to Colin's remarks. I am a lifelong Canes fan, big Sean Taylor fan in his college days and I am not bothered by what Colin wrote, just let it go so we don't get a crummy thread going here.

Seriously... Too many attempts to read between lines around here lately.

More like too many attempts to invent things that aren't there just to stir up a controversy where none exists. This could just very well be the most ridiculous debate I've ever read. This thread is proof positive that someone could post a thread stating the sky is blue and a number of people would end up being offended and/or feel compelled to take a contradictory opinion.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Please don't mention those 4 in the same sentence as Taylor, his fiance, and his child. Not cool.

I dunno. If some guy is downstairs taking a stero out of taylors house, while his buddy upstairs shoots taylor (with no knowledge of the gun etc) I can see how he is now a 'victim' in many regards too.

 

[redman]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

The 4 perps ruined their own lives along with 3 others...4+3 =7?You can say it however you want but actually a lot more than 7 lives were ruined. You have a lot of teammates that were devastated, coaches, owners, fans, there is a long list of people that were affected and i think people are being hyper sensitive to Colin's remarks. I am a lifelong Canes fan, big Sean Taylor fan in his college days and I am not bothered by what Colin wrote, just let it go so we don't get a crummy thread going here.

Seriously... Too many attempts to read between lines around here lately.

More like too many attempts to invent things that aren't there just to stir up a controversy where none exists. This could just very well be the most ridiculous debate I've ever read. This thread is proof positive that someone could post a thread stating the sky is blue and a number of people would end up being offended and/or feel compelled to take a contradictory opinion.

The sky is not always blue, guy. Overcast down?

 

[radballs]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

More accurate to say that 3 lives were ruined and 4 others ruined them along with their own lives. You kinda make it sound like they were victims here.

No, he doesn't. You yourself said the same thing, 7 lives were ruined. Other people put their own spin on what is said, regardless of what is actually said. And that's what starts 90% of the arguments in the SP. If someone says "A", then he must also mean "B" and is implying "C". When all that was actually said was "A". If people would just stop inferring stuff that isn't in a post, then a lot of disagreements would be avoided. The fact of the matter is, the 4 (possibly 5 including the driver they're looking for) guys have ruined their own lives. Colin didn't say they were victims, didn't infer they were not responsible. As a matter of fact, the biggest thing you can infer from his statement is that the whole mess was caused by something so stupid as a minor burglary, which clearly puts the onus of the tragedy on the 4 burglars. There's no liberal politics involved, Colin isn't eliciting sympathy for those guys, and anyone with half a brain, doesn't need it to be pointed out that Taylor and his family are in a completely different category of ruined than the 4 kids they arrested. But it doesn't change the fact that 7 lives (actually many more) were ruined by something so stupid as a botched burglary. And Colin didn't say anything that shifted the blame or who the victims were, if anything he slammed the boys for the worthlessness of their crime.

 

[bcr8f]

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

Please don't mention those 4 in the same sentence as Taylor, his fiance, and his child. Not cool.

I mentioned that their lives are also ruined. Why is that troublesome? Try not to get worked up; I'm capable of distinguishing the difference between a victim and a perp.

BS Colin, thats lib BS. The only lives that were destroyed were Taylors family. Your a ##### for even coming up with that crap. I respected you, but now I know what you are, a punk. They need to take away your MOD status, you dont have the brains to be editing anyones posts. You suck.

Yeah the parents of killers lives aren't ever affected. It's the democrats fault.Dahmer's parents were good people. How do you think their lives have been since his rampage? Geez.

 

[[scooter]]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

 

[Phurfur]

So, no black KKK then?

I think that is the definition of the black KKK.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

 

[fatness]

So, no black KKK then?

The story is about green, not black. They thought he had money in the house and wanted it. If they thought the money was in the house next door they would have been there instead.

 

[[scooter]]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

(I don't mean to be toolish, so I'll stop commenting after this post, but......)No offense, Chase, but I don't think you would have gone to such lengths to defend someone who wasn't a mod, or someone who maybe had a reputation for being an instigator. But Colin says it and you go into spin mode, even skewing the subject by saying stuff like "it's not a good day for America" (who said it was?) and "it's undeniably unfortunate" (who said it wasn't?).I don't remember anyone ever lamenting the fact that Dylan Klebold's life was ruined.

 

[johnny_q]

[soapbox]

Wow. Its interesting to read this board when it comes to more than football. You can truly get an idea of how different people are. You really get a feel that the people here are from all different areas, different walks of life, different upbringings, etc.

I'm surprised at how sensitive many have been about this subject, defending Sean Taylor as if he was part of their family.

Is it really that hard to read someone's post and understand their thought process when they typed it? Common sense down? Obviously Colin in this thread and JohnnyU in the other thread understand that what happened is a horrible tragedy. What's the deal with berading them with "what kind of a horrible person are you?" posts.

[/soapbox]

Now, for my opinion...or at least my conspiracy theories:

1) The police are saying this was just a botched robbery. They only shot when they got startled because someone was home. The police are also saying that the locked bedroom door was kicked in before Taylor was shot? Now, if they are implying that the perps kicked the door in to get into the bedroom to steal something that was in there, then fine...move on. However, aren't most bedroom doors locked from the inside? Wouldn't the perps have known someone was inside before kicking the door down? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

2) Why did they bring guns in the first place?

3) Out of everyone in this forum who says "Taylor was changed, blah, blah, blah", did anyone actually know him? If one of his longtime friends/former teammates came out and said something like "Taylor knew there were some people out to get him and he's scared to be at home in Miami"...wouldn't that be someone who would be more believable than any of the other opinions everyone is giving? Read Antrelle Rolle's interview here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3132378

Personally, I'm not really sure what to think. I'd say Colin is wrong. Way more than 7 lives have been destroyed. Whether or not Sean "brought this upon himself", I'd say that he didn't...however, I definitely think that everyone is a product of their environment. The one thing that I can't figure out is that if Sean was the son of a Police Chief, why was he running in some of the circles that he ran in (regardless of whether he has since disassociated himself with these friends)?

 

[Chase Stuart]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

(I don't mean to be toolish, so I'll stop commenting after this post, but......)No offense, Chase, but I don't think you would have gone to such lengths to defend someone who wasn't a mod, or someone who maybe had a reputation for being an instigator. But Colin says it and you go into spin mode, even skewing the subject by saying stuff like "it's not a good day for America" (who said it was?) and "it's undeniably unfortunate" (who said it wasn't?).I don't remember anyone ever lamenting the fact that Dylan Klebold's life was ruined.

Lots of people lamented that. Don't you remember that Marilyn Manson and hip hop were blamed for it?

 

[North]

Good. Now some of these insensitive idiots can stop assuming that it was somehow Sean's fault. It doesn't matter who you are or who you hang with, anyones house can be broken into.

The insensitive idiots will probably use the fact that it appears Taylor knew some of them as support that Taylor hung out with the wrong people and it came back to end his life.

....and what part of that isn't the truth?

Because one of the guys knew Taylor had money and knew where his house was doesn't mean he "knew" him. I knew he had lots of money and anyone can fiind out where he lives, does that mean he knew me. Quit trying to associate guilt to someone who is guilty of nothing but sleeping in his home and getting murdered.

 

[cobalt_27]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

(I don't mean to be toolish, so I'll stop commenting after this post, but......)No offense, Chase, but I don't think you would have gone to such lengths to defend someone who wasn't a mod, or someone who maybe had a reputation for being an instigator. But Colin says it and you go into spin mode, even skewing the subject by saying stuff like "it's not a good day for America" (who said it was?) and "it's undeniably unfortunate" (who said it wasn't?).I don't remember anyone ever lamenting the fact that Dylan Klebold's life was ruined.

It would be ultra-strange for someone to say, after the Oklahoma City bombing, "Gosh, that poor Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols; their lives are never going to be the same after this."Totally weird. True, no doubt. But, very strange that some people would just lump them into the same sentence like that.

 

[Jous]

I will lose a lot of respect for this website if mdog is banned. If he said that to a non-mod clearly nothing happens likely more people join him, being a mod does NOT mean your opinions and thoughts are immune from being called out.

 

[johnny_q]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

(I don't mean to be toolish, so I'll stop commenting after this post, but......)No offense, Chase, but I don't think you would have gone to such lengths to defend someone who wasn't a mod, or someone who maybe had a reputation for being an instigator. But Colin says it and you go into spin mode, even skewing the subject by saying stuff like "it's not a good day for America" (who said it was?) and "it's undeniably unfortunate" (who said it wasn't?).

I don't remember anyone ever lamenting the fact that Dylan Klebold's life was ruined.

It would be ultra-strange for someone to say, after the Oklahoma City bombing, "Gosh, that poor Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols; their lives are never going to be the same after this."

Totally weird. True, no doubt. But, very strange that some people would just lump them into the same sentence like that.

Where do you see anyone saying this?

SO, b/w Taylor, his fiance, his child, and these 4, we're up to 7 lives ruined for no good reason?

ETA: I just can't see the reason for the uprising over this post...Let's see, have all of their lives been ruined? Was there any good reason?

 

[thayman]

[soapbox]

Wow. Its interesting to read this board when it comes to more than football. You can truly get an idea of how different people are. You really get a feel that the people here are from all different areas, different walks of life, different upbringings, etc.

I'm surprised at how sensitive many have been about this subject, defending Sean Taylor as if he was part of their family.

Is it really that hard to read someone's post and understand their thought process when they typed it? Common sense down? Obviously Colin in this thread and JohnnyU in the other thread understand that what happened is a horrible tragedy. What's the deal with berading them with "what kind of a horrible person are you?" posts.

[/soapbox]

Now, for my opinion...or at least my conspiracy theories:

1) The police are saying this was just a botched robbery. They only shot when they got startled because someone was home. The police are also saying that the locked bedroom door was kicked in before Taylor was shot? Now, if they are implying that the perps kicked the door in to get into the bedroom to steal something that was in there, then fine...move on. However, aren't most bedroom doors locked from the inside? Wouldn't the perps have known someone was inside before kicking the door down? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

2) Why did they bring guns in the first place?

3) Out of everyone in this forum who says "Taylor was changed, blah, blah, blah", did anyone actually know him? If one of his longtime friends/former teammates came out and said something like "Taylor knew there were some people out to get him and he's scared to be at home in Miami"...wouldn't that be someone who would be more believable than any of the other opinions everyone is giving? Read Antrelle Rolle's interview here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3132378

Personally, I'm not really sure what to think. I'd say Colin is wrong. Way more than 7 lives have been destroyed. Whether or not Sean "brought this upon himself", I'd say that he didn't...however, I definitely think that everyone is a product of their environment. The one thing that I can't figure out is that if Sean was the son of a Police Chief, why was he running in some of the circles that he ran in (regardless of whether he has since disassociated himself with these friends)?

I love a good conspieracy theory as much as the next guy. But it is not rumored that some of these guys might have confessed. Did they confess for their health? Were they involved, and their job is to take the fall?As far as to why he was running in the circle he was at the ages of 17-21ish. When I was that age I know I made some dumb decisions. Didn't you?

 

[Chase Stuart]

I will lose a lot of respect for this website if mdog is banned. If he said that to a non-mod clearly nothing happens likely more people join him, being a mod does NOT mean your opinions and thoughts are immune from being called out.

If you say this:

Your a ##### for even coming up with that crap.

I respected you, but now I know what you are, a punk. You suck.

You will be banned. I don't care who it is directed at, or who said it. We don't run the Shark Pool that way. If you have a problem with that, please PM or email Joe or David at bryant@footballguys.com or dodds@footballguys.com.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...?act=boardrules

 

[Chase Stuart]

The sad thing is that if a non-mod had made the same outrageous statement, he would have been crucified.

I don't think there was anything outrageous about Colin's comment. If you want to look for something sad, I'd say the Sean Taylor tragedy is a better start.FWIW, the whole situation is terrible. And yes, even including the four alleged perpetrators. It is not a good day for America when that happens, any more than it's a good day for America when the Columbine tragedy happened. There is nothing to celebrate when four young Americans feel the urge to do what they do. No one called, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold or Seung-Hui Cho victims, but it's undeniably unfortunate how their lives turned out.

(I don't mean to be toolish, so I'll stop commenting after this post, but......)No offense, Chase, but I don't think you would have gone to such lengths to defend someone who wasn't a mod, or someone who maybe had a reputation for being an instigator. But Colin says it and you go into spin mode, even skewing the subject by saying stuff like "it's not a good day for America" (who said it was?) and "it's undeniably unfortunate" (who said it wasn't?).I don't remember anyone ever lamenting the fact that Dylan Klebold's life was ruined.

It would be ultra-strange for someone to say, after the Oklahoma City bombing, "Gosh, that poor Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols; their lives are never going to be the same after this."Totally weird. True, no doubt. But, very strange that some people would just lump them into the same sentence like that.

I'll try not to sidetrack here, but that's a different case. We can discuss in the FFA if you like.