Seeking opinions on what is considered RBBC (1 Viewer)

[rzrback77]

When considering the number of targets and rushes, what percentage by the RB #1 would you need for him to be counted as Non TB by Committee?

I am really looking at non-injury situations so it could be considered in per game statistics.

 

[Buckle]

Any back that's there in the first two downs and is pulled out for the 3rd down in most cases. Sometimes a RB plays two series and takes a breather in the next series (Dallas and Chicago?) is another shady RBBC ploy.

Basically any RB not playing all 3 possible downs is in a RBBC in my book.

 

[Steel Mike Tomczak]

Also , any team with a goal line/red zone back, something I have coined "the Closer". Instead of TDs the 2-5 goalline carry per game back should recieve Saves.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I think it's not necessarily a straight percentage that determines RBBC. Sometimes it is, but....

Sometimes coaches play the "hot hand", and one RB will get the bulk of carries in one game, but another will get the bulk of carries in the next three games. In any one game it might not be a RBBC.

 

[switz]

As long as the primary RB gets over twice as many touches as the secondary, it's not RBBC.

 

[CalBear]

Looking at 2006, I think the baseline non-RBBC running back is Chester Taylor, with 303 carries and 42 receptions. Most everyone below him was either pure RBBC (McAliister/Bush, J.Jones/Barber, Taylor/Jones-Drew), or partial-season feature backs (Travis Henry, Ronnie Brown). One borderline case is Warrick Dunn/Jerious Norwood, with 286/22 and 99/12.

Taylor had 69% of the total RB touches on Minnesota; Dunn had 66% of the RB touches on Atlanta. I would say 66% of touches is the baseline for a fantasy feature back, as long as the touches include a similar portion of TDs. Someone with 66% of RB touches and 40% of RB TDs is in RBBC.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Backs over 320 touches are considered for non-RBBC status.

I'd say 75% is clear. 70% is a little cloudy on a heavy running team (21 carries vs. 9 for another back-probably ok). 65% is murky (26 vs. 14).

 

[Routilla]

I don't get too hung up on percentages. I look at production. If a #2 RB outscores the #1 on less carries then does it really matter? See MJD and MBIII from last year.

 

[rzrback77]

Bumped for additional opinions.

Thanks for the input and keep it coming.

 

[Bri]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

 

[CalBear]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

 

[Family Matters]

I'm not sure there is a set answer but I went with 60%. First you have to realize that every team uses more than 1 RB. Some utilize their RB2 more than others such as Indy & NO last year. But the average number of rushing attempts for a team is around 475. And any back that's getting near 300 attempts is getting enough touches to be a solid RB1 for fantasy purposes. You alos have to consider the receptions a back will get. This alone changes Bush's value considerably especially in PPR leagues.

So rather than worry about defining if it's RBBC, one should define if a RB is getting enough touches to be a worthy RB1.

 

[Bri]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

why do you feel that way?

 

[CalBear]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

why do you feel that way?

I don't "feel" that way, I've done the analysis. There are more featured backs getting more carries now than there ever have been. See this thread, for example.

 

[wadegarrett]

Depending on teams, coaching and personnel...anywhere from 70%-80%.

 

[Bri]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

why do you feel that way?

I don't "feel" that way, I've done the analysis. There are more featured backs getting more carries now than there ever have been. See this thread, for example.

I see this

Step 1: Check your assumptions.

If you check out the trend lines since 1978 (first 16-game season) carries for both the #1 RB and the #10 RB are on the rise. Obviously, LJ set the record this year for most carries by a RB, but the #10 RB (by number of carries) also had more than 300 carries. The first time the #10 RB ever had 300+ carries was in 1996 (Murrell, 301); since 2000, it has happened 4 times.

We are in an era of feature backs, not RBBC.

You mean 1 thru 10 right? not 1 and 10????So you either equate 2 or 10 RBs to represent an era? What am I missing here?

Jeff,

does this

I did some preliminary digging on this topic. For the past 11 years, 30-39 RBs had 160 touches each season - no more than 39, no fewer than 30. So the RBBC going up or down seems to be a myth.

The reasoning behind why 30-39 backs get that many touches is a separate issue. Is it due to injuries (see Betts/Portis)? RBBC (Bush/Deuce)? That's the question.

Overall, the 30-39 stat was very telling to me.

touches include receptions? just curious

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

why do you feel that way?

I don't "feel" that way, I've done the analysis. There are more featured backs getting more carries now than there ever have been. See this thread, for example.

I see this

Step 1: Check your assumptions.

If you check out the trend lines since 1978 (first 16-game season) carries for both the #1 RB and the #10 RB are on the rise. Obviously, LJ set the record this year for most carries by a RB, but the #10 RB (by number of carries) also had more than 300 carries. The first time the #10 RB ever had 300+ carries was in 1996 (Murrell, 301); since 2000, it has happened 4 times.

We are in an era of feature backs, not RBBC.

You mean 1 thru 10 right? not 1 and 10????So you either equate 2 or 10 RBs to represent an era? What am I missing here?

Jeff,

does this

I did some preliminary digging on this topic. For the past 11 years, 30-39 RBs had 160 touches each season - no more than 39, no fewer than 30. So the RBBC going up or down seems to be a myth.

The reasoning behind why 30-39 backs get that many touches is a separate issue. Is it due to injuries (see Betts/Portis)? RBBC (Bush/Deuce)? That's the question.

Overall, the 30-39 stat was very telling to me.

touches include receptions? just curious

Touches = carries + receptions.

 

[Bri]

This is pasted from PFR, and I added the numberred list

1.LaDainian Tomlinson	 348  1815  28  |   56   508   3  |  427	2662.Larry Johnson		   416  1789  17  |   41   410   2  |  334	1733.Steven Jackson		  346  1528  13  |   90   806   3  |  329	1684.Frank Gore			  312  1695   8  |   61   485   1  |  272	1115.Willie Parker		   337  1494  13  |   31   222   3  |  268	1076.Brian Westbrook		 240  1217   7  |   77   699   4  |  258	 977.Tiki Barber			 327  1662   5  |   58   465   0  |  243	 828.Maurice Jones-Drew	  166   941  13  |   46   436   2  |  228	 679.Rudi Johnson			341  1309  12  |   23   124   0  |  215	 5410.Ladell Betts			245  1154   4  |   53   445   1  |  190	 2911.Joseph Addai			226  1081   7  |   40   325   1  |  189	 2812.Chester Taylor		  303  1216   6  |   42   288   0  |  186	 2513.Deuce McAllister		244  1057  10  |   30   198   0  |  186	 2514.Marion Barber III	   135   654  14  |   23   196   2  |  181	 2015.Ahman Green			 266  1059   5  |   46   373   1  |  179	 1816.Jamal Lewis			 314  1132   9  |   18   115   0  |  179	 1817.Reggie Bush			 155   565   6  |   88   742   2  |  178	 1718.Fred Taylor			 231  1146   5  |   23   242   1  |  175	 1419.Corey Dillon			199   812  13  |   15   147   0  |  174	 1320.Edgerrin James		  337  1159   6  |   38   217   0  |  174	 1321.Thomas Jones			296  1210   6  |   36   154   0  |  172	 1122.Travis Henry			270  1211   7  |   18	78   0  |  171	 1023.Kevin Jones			 181   689   6  |   61   520   2  |  169	  824.Warrick Dunn			286  1140   4  |   22   170   1  |  161	  025.Ronnie Brown			241  1008   5  |   33   276   0  |  158	  026.Willis McGahee		  259   990   6  |   18   156   0  |  151	  027.Julius Jones			267  1084   4  |	9   142   0  |  147	  028.Shaun Alexander		 252   896   7  |   12	48   0  |  136	  029.Laurence Maroney		175   745   6  |   22   194   1  |  136	  030.Mike Bell			   157   677   8  |   20   158   0  |  132	  031.Tatum Bell			  233  1025   2  |   24   115   0  |  126	  032.DeShaun Foster		  227   897   3  |   32   159   0  |  124	  033.Dominic Rhodes		  187   641   5  |   36   251   0  |  119	  034.Reuben Droughns		 220   758   4  |   27   169   0  |  117	  035.Leon Washington		 151   650   4  |   25   270   0  |  116	  036.Clinton Portis		  127   523   7  |   17   170   0  |  111	  037.Brandon Jacobs		   96   423   9  |   11   149   0  |  111	  038.Cedric Benson		   157   647   6  |	8	54   0  |  106	  039.Cadillac Williams	   225   798   1  |   30   196   0  |  105	  040.Ron Dayne			   151   612   5  |   14	77   0  |   99	  041.DeAngelo Williams	   121   501   1  |   33   313   1  |   93	  042.Wali Lundy			  124   476   4  |   33   204   0  |   92	  043.Jerious Norwood		  99   633   2  |   12   102   0  |   86	  044.Justin Fargas		   178   659   1  |   13	91   0  |   81	  045.Correll Buckhalter	   83   345   2  |   24   256   1  |   78	  046.Kevan Barlow			131   370   6  |	7	21   0  |   75	  047.Cedric Houston		  113   374   5  |	7	43   0  |   72	  048.Michael Pittman		  50   245   1  |   47   405   0  |   71	  049.Mewelde Moore			24   131   0  |   46   468   1  |   71	  050.Vernand Morency		  96   434   2  |   17   118   0  |   67	  051.Michael Turner		   80   502   2  |	3	47   0  |   67	  052.Kevin Faulk			  25   123   1  |   43   356   2  |   66	  053.Maurice Morris		  161   604   0  |   11	46   0  |   65	  054.Anthony Thomas		  107   378   2  |   22   139   0  |   64	  055.LaMont Jordan		   114   434   2  |   10	74   0  |   63	  056.Sammy Morris			 92   400   1  |   21   162   0  |   62	  0

one sec

 

[Bri]

This is pasted from PFR, and I added the numberred list

1.LaDainian Tomlinson	 348  1815  28  |   56   508   3  |  427	2662.Larry Johnson		   416  1789  17  |   41   410   2  |  334	1733.Steven Jackson		  346  1528  13  |   90   806   3  |  329	1684.Frank Gore			  312  1695   8  |   61   485   1  |  272	1115.Willie Parker		   337  1494  13  |   31   222   3  |  268	1076.Brian Westbrook		 240  1217   7  |   77   699   4  |  258	 977.Tiki Barber			 327  1662   5  |   58   465   0  |  243	 828.Maurice Jones-Drew	  166   941  13  |   46   436   2  |  228	 679.Rudi Johnson			341  1309  12  |   23   124   0  |  215	 5410.Ladell Betts			245  1154   4  |   53   445   1  |  190	 2911.Joseph Addai			226  1081   7  |   40   325   1  |  189	 2812.Chester Taylor		  303  1216   6  |   42   288   0  |  186	 2513.Deuce McAllister		244  1057  10  |   30   198   0  |  186	 2514.Marion Barber III	   135   654  14  |   23   196   2  |  181	 2015.Ahman Green			 266  1059   5  |   46   373   1  |  179	 1816.Jamal Lewis			 314  1132   9  |   18   115   0  |  179	 1817.Reggie Bush			 155   565   6  |   88   742   2  |  178	 1718.Fred Taylor			 231  1146   5  |   23   242   1  |  175	 1419.Corey Dillon			199   812  13  |   15   147   0  |  174	 1320.Edgerrin James		  337  1159   6  |   38   217   0  |  174	 1321.Thomas Jones			296  1210   6  |   36   154   0  |  172	 1122.Travis Henry			270  1211   7  |   18	78   0  |  171	 1023.Kevin Jones			 181   689   6  |   61   520   2  |  169	  824.Warrick Dunn			286  1140   4  |   22   170   1  |  161	  025.Ronnie Brown			241  1008   5  |   33   276   0  |  158	  026.Willis McGahee		  259   990   6  |   18   156   0  |  151	  027.Julius Jones			267  1084   4  |	9   142   0  |  147	  028.Shaun Alexander		 252   896   7  |   12	48   0  |  136	  029.Laurence Maroney		175   745   6  |   22   194   1  |  136	  030.Mike Bell			   157   677   8  |   20   158   0  |  132	  031.Tatum Bell			  233  1025   2  |   24   115   0  |  126	  032.DeShaun Foster		  227   897   3  |   32   159   0  |  124	  033.Dominic Rhodes		  187   641   5  |   36   251   0  |  119	  034.Reuben Droughns		 220   758   4  |   27   169   0  |  117	  035.Leon Washington		 151   650   4  |   25   270   0  |  116	  036.Clinton Portis		  127   523   7  |   17   170   0  |  111	  037.Brandon Jacobs		   96   423   9  |   11   149   0  |  111	  038.Cedric Benson		   157   647   6  |	8	54   0  |  106	  039.Cadillac Williams	   225   798   1  |   30   196   0  |  105	  040.Ron Dayne			   151   612   5  |   14	77   0  |   99	  041.DeAngelo Williams	   121   501   1  |   33   313   1  |   93	  042.Wali Lundy			  124   476   4  |   33   204   0  |   92	  043.Jerious Norwood		  99   633   2  |   12   102   0  |   86	  044.Justin Fargas		   178   659   1  |   13	91   0  |   81	  045.Correll Buckhalter	   83   345   2  |   24   256   1  |   78	  046.Kevan Barlow			131   370   6  |	7	21   0  |   75	  047.Cedric Houston		  113   374   5  |	7	43   0  |   72	  048.Michael Pittman		  50   245   1  |   47   405   0  |   71	  049.Mewelde Moore			24   131   0  |   46   468   1  |   71	  050.Vernand Morency		  96   434   2  |   17   118   0  |   67	  051.Michael Turner		   80   502   2  |	3	47   0  |   67	  052.Kevin Faulk			  25   123   1  |   43   356   2  |   66	  053.Maurice Morris		  161   604   0  |   11	46   0  |   65	  054.Anthony Thomas		  107   378   2  |   22   139   0  |   64	  055.LaMont Jordan		   114   434   2  |   10	74   0  |   63	  056.Sammy Morris			 92   400   1  |   21   162   0  |   62	  0

one sec

Scoring is whatever Doug goes by, it's reasonable IMO so I used that.Initially I figured stopping at Turner is probably fair since he seems to have been the most talked about backup this offseason. A-train and both Morris played very well at times last year, didn't wanna cut them off so....I decided to stop there.56 is not 32 teams times 2I believe the argument is whether it's a one RB league or a 2 RB leagueBackup=not openning day starter OK?8,10,14,17, 22?, 29 30 or 31, 33,35,37,38, 40 thru 56 minus Lamont I believe were all backups.28 of the top 56 scoring RBs were backupsUsing that carry # (160) didn't do anything but prove the result that was desired. It also would have alienated Bush, Drew, and Barber III. 3 of the top 20 RBs don't count and 160 is a good barometer? cmon now

 

[CalBear]

It's a 2RB league now, only a handful of teams will use one back predominantly in 07. I've begun to look at which 2nd RBs(aka backups) will be used less.

It is less of a 2RB league than it ever has been.

why do you feel that way?

I don't "feel" that way, I've done the analysis. There are more featured backs getting more carries now than there ever have been. See this thread, for example.

I see this

Step 1: Check your assumptions.

If you check out the trend lines since 1978 (first 16-game season) carries for both the #1 RB and the #10 RB are on the rise. Obviously, LJ set the record this year for most carries by a RB, but the #10 RB (by number of carries) also had more than 300 carries. The first time the #10 RB ever had 300+ carries was in 1996 (Murrell, 301); since 2000, it has happened 4 times.

We are in an era of feature backs, not RBBC.

You mean 1 thru 10 right? not 1 and 10????So you either equate 2 or 10 RBs to represent an era? What am I missing here?

I looked at the number of carries the #1 RB got, and the #10 RB got (#1 and #10 by number of carries) in each year since 1978. (So for example, in 1978 the #1 RB got 333 carries and the #10 RB got 240, while in 2006 the #1 RB got 416 carries and the #10 RB got 303). Both trendlines are clearly up, especially since 2000.Edit to add: I just noticed that in 1978, the #1 RB and the #10 RB were on the same team. #1? Walter Payton. With Sweetness on the Bears (in the prime of his career) and 634 rushing attempts to distribute (a huge number by today's standards--the 2006 leader was Atlanta with 537 rushes), they gave 240 carries to Roland Harper.