Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Sell High (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter qimqam
- Start date
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Could you please give me some proof about an impending discipline action that's going to be taken by the league before spouting this crap?
Sep 26 Kevin Goheen, of the Cincinnati Post, reports Cincinnati Bengals WR Chris Henry, who was in the vehicle when teammate LB Odell Thurman was charged with a DUI, could be charged with violating conditions of his probation. In a prior court case, Henry was ordered to stay away from alcohol by a judge when he was released from jail after being arrested for providing alcohol to minors. It is still unclear as to whether Thurman's incident could cause more problems for Henry.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
I'm still trying to figure out why Henry and Koren Robinson haven't been suspended.
Perhaps because they haven't been found guilty yet.
Ricky Manning Jr. could have some issues with the NFL too.... and he's in violation of his current probation too, so he could see time in the stripey hole. I'm glad the game at Minny is over, and the one against Seattle is now. Not too many other teams that are pass crazy on their roster, except for the Rams and Cardinals.
Perhaps because they haven't been found guilty yet.
Ricky Manning Jr. could have some issues with the NFL too.... and he's in violation of his current probation too, so he could see time in the stripey hole. I'm glad the game at Minny is over, and the one against Seattle is now. Not too many other teams that are pass crazy on their roster, except for the Rams and Cardinals.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Agreed 100%. Chances are most drafted him late or picked him up as a FA...meaning hopefully you have other options if he does get suspended.
SoFresh&SoClean
Footballguy
Try making some sort of contribution instead of taking cheap shots that aren't particularly funny. I don't mind if you don't like a team/player, but every post that I've read from you is like this.IMHO Henry is more than likely going to be okay in terms of suspension. I think his lawyers will be able to get the court dates pushed to the off-season. If he does get anything, it'll be maybe a four game suspension. I hope he gets punished more than a fine so he might learn something, but it doesn't seem like that will happen soon.
RabidRabbit
Footballguy
Relax. Henry's life is a joke. Some one-liners for this dope are clearly in order. Now, I claimed him this week. But I got to tell you I seriously doubt that the Bungles are going to keep giving this guy a chance. Granted he wasn't driving this time, but he was in the car with the other Biggest Dope on their roster (Thurman) and Thurman said he was only driving b/c Henry and another guy were more drunk than he was. Also Henry's probation was to include avoiding alcohol. Great. If he can't keep it on the down low for a couple of weeks, then the Bengals might finally decide this guy has no self control. With Houzma back and CJ, they can afford to discipline Henry this week. I'd be leary of using him in wk 4. He could put up week 1 stats or be a last minuite inactive.
Josh the FunkDOC
Footballguy
I think you guys are missing the biggest problem with Henry for fantasy...
Simply put, has a team's WR3 EVER been legitimately startable? 2004 Stokely is about the only one that comes to mind...
Sure, Az Hakim and others have put up decent season totals in the slot, but the position is so hit-or-miss from week to week.
Easily a sell high, I would be happy to get just about anything of value for him.
Simply put, has a team's WR3 EVER been legitimately startable? 2004 Stokely is about the only one that comes to mind...
Sure, Az Hakim and others have put up decent season totals in the slot, but the position is so hit-or-miss from week to week.
Easily a sell high, I would be happy to get just about anything of value for him.
chris1969
Footballguy
Ok, that post hit home. You made me out to be like one of those Steeler fans that look for any post that says Browns in it so they can find a place to piss.I'm not really putting down your team, but I am putting down your player. I hate thugs period and Henry is a thug. The only way I can show you that it's not your team that I'm bashing is to point out thugs on the Browns. There is only 1 player on my thug list on the Browns right now and he is not officially a thug yet. That would be KW2. I didn't like his attitude when we drafted him and I hate his dad, but so far he hasn't done anything thuggish. We have thugs on our team, but I haven't figured out who they are yet. Our thugs from the past though are Gerard Warren, William Green, Eric Metcalf etc...I like Carson Palmer, about every guy on your O-line, Marv Lewis, and your defensive philosophy. As far as every post you've seen from me being a cheap shot, I'm guessing every post you've seen so far is from today. I've taken plenty of shots at Henry, but he deserves it.I think the Bungles are the favorites in the division right now and they deserve it. As far as anyone connecting Marv Lewis to thugs on your team they don't understand Marv Lewis. Marv would have trashed Henry on the second offense. But he's getting the personell orders from above.As far as me joking about Henry, don't expect it to stop. TO, Randy Moss, Deon Sanders, Ricky Williams, Willie Green, Chad Johnson, David Boston, Gerrard Warren, Warren Sapp, and about 50 other players will get the same treatment though.As far as how long Henry will outlast the law, I don't care. I won't put him on my roster even if CJ and TJ both go down. He's a sleezeball period. I'd rather lose than win with a first-class thug on my team. (I don't want people to think I wouldn't have him on my team though, I might have him on it, but I wouldn't like it. I pretty much drop a player's value down to the point someone else will pick him up before I do, but if a thug like him is still out there I'll take him if it's a great value.)If that upsets you then fine, but don't sit there and yell at me when I make fun of your 3 strike in 1 year player. If Carson Palmer got caught for smoking crack tomorrow he's already earned a second chance by me. The only thing Henry has earned is a few discount coupons to the local strip clubs.
SoFresh&SoClean
Footballguy
Well I just saw about four of your posts and each one of them had an anti-bengal sentiment with no real contribution to the topic at hand... so I might have jumped the gun a bit so I apologize. I've just grown wary of new posters who come in here an randomly bash teams/players usually for no reason other than that they don't like them.
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Count me among those who think Henry is going to be suspended at some point this season. He's just done too much bad stuff recently and he'll likely accept plea bargains to avoid a trial.
4 game suspension at some point IMO. Better sooner than in the playoffs.
4 game suspension at some point IMO. Better sooner than in the playoffs.
1. Henry was not driving the vehicle, yet did barf out the window.
2. O'dell said "those guys had more than I did." (Referring to Henry and McNeal)
3. Henry was not given a BAC test at the scene. He submitted to a mandatory test Monday afternoon, as per the conditions of his probation. Considering the average rate of alcohol leaving the body (~1 oz. per hour), that's more than enough time for him to test cleanly.
Reviewing.....
1. It's not illegal to barf.
2. Hearsay...also bolstered by the defense of, "well, the person making this statement DID blow a .181."
3. Assuming he tested clean Monday, there is NO scientific evidence linking Chris Henry to alcohol in relation to this incident.
Therefore....why whould anyone expect him to be suspended?
2. O'dell said "those guys had more than I did." (Referring to Henry and McNeal)
3. Henry was not given a BAC test at the scene. He submitted to a mandatory test Monday afternoon, as per the conditions of his probation. Considering the average rate of alcohol leaving the body (~1 oz. per hour), that's more than enough time for him to test cleanly.
Reviewing.....
1. It's not illegal to barf.
2. Hearsay...also bolstered by the defense of, "well, the person making this statement DID blow a .181."
3. Assuming he tested clean Monday, there is NO scientific evidence linking Chris Henry to alcohol in relation to this incident.
Therefore....why whould anyone expect him to be suspended?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
1. he pleaded guilty in the off-season to a weapons charge2. he still has a trial pending on another alcohol charge3. he was on probation, and as part of it, he's not supposed to be drinking
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
What do Chris Henry and Legal Proceedings have in common? A: common sense doesn't enter into either.
He wasn't charged and from the sound of it there's no evidence he violated his probation that a good lawyer can't beat.
btw...Chris Henry isn't a WR3. He's 1c at this point. IMO all three guys are going to put up good numbers, but no one is going to be top 10.
He wasn't charged and from the sound of it there's no evidence he violated his probation that a good lawyer can't beat.
btw...Chris Henry isn't a WR3. He's 1c at this point. IMO all three guys are going to put up good numbers, but no one is going to be top 10.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Actually Moss was a WR3 in Minnesota for his first 4-5 games (behind Cris Carter & Jake Reed). He did okay. First 5 games of his career:22 receptions for 463 yards, 6 TD
F
FightingWombat
Guest
Why is Henry's value going to plummet NOW? Everytime you looked at the news during the offseason he was being arrested for something. Now all of a sudden hanging out with drunk people is some high crime/treason? This sort of thing is par for course with Henry. I think it will all catch up with him in the end but this is something I have felt for awhile. I don't see his value as high right now either.
elpasotexan
Footballguy
As an attorney, my concern would be if he paid with credit cards that can be subpeonaed and/or they get witnesses to come in to testify they saw him drinking or if the officer says he smelled alcohol coming from his breath. Is the case Henry's on probation for out of Ohio? If it is, he might be in more trouble than if his probation is out of West Virginia or wherever he's from.
2112
Footballguy
pretty certain I read that the probation was from Florida.
elpasotexan
Footballguy
Than I would be less concerned about his probation revocation than about the NFL CBA. While not impossible, it would be quite difficult to get anyone down to Florida from Ohio to tesify that he smelled like alcohol or saw him boozing.pretty certain I read that the probation was from Florida.
chris1969
Footballguy
Bingo! same thing I was thinking! The officer is probably the one that could kill him in a court proceeding. By simply stating "I smelled alchohol on his breath." Also one thing that hasn't been brought up is that if Thurman got arrested, how did the other 2 guys get home? An officer would normally let one of the other guys take the car home for Thurman, but first he's gonna ask "Have you been drinking?" He may even do field tests before handing over the keys. Also most patrol cars in Ohio have video cameras. If the officer doesn't fry him, he can probably get by with the courts. elpasotexan:My guess is that the judge that told him to stay away from alchohol has alot to do with this too. Can he just revoke his probation if he wants too? I'm thinking the judge would have alot of freedom here, but your the lawyer.As far as the CBA goes The NFL can get ahold of any witness pretty easily. They have the pockets to fly someone out to interview anyone. They can go to the bar and they can talk to the officer. They can also have someone show up at the trial to examine evidence. Don't forget we have a new commisioner and we had to recently go in front of congress over our substance abuse program. Roger may want to make an example over a 3 strike player rather than stand in front of congress himself
elpasotexan
Footballguy
If Florida is anything like Texas (Bush anyone?), the Rules of Evidence are mor lax in a probation revocation proceeding. In a criminal case you have the Beyond a Reasonable Doubt Standard of Proof (See OJ criminal case outcome); in a probation revocation case, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (a more likely than not standard -- see OJ's wrongful death case). THAT BEING SAID, they're still needs to be a hearing and the State still needs to prove he violated his probation. What matters also is the severity of the crime he's on probation for. If it's a cheesy misdemeanor, courts are less likely to mess with their probationers than if he's on probation for a high crime like rape or aggravated assault. So to answer your question, while the rules of evidence are more lax, Due Process under the Constituion requires that he gets at least a hearing. I think he walks away with a proverbial slap on the wrist - maybe more community service hours or afew days in the can - of course depending on the underlying (probationary) offense. As far as cameras are concerned, they are usually not "night vision" so the puking and even the identifaction of the "puker" will not be so clear. He wins yet again.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Forget this most recent event, what about the (maybe more, I don't know) charge that is still pending against him? Providing alcohol to minors, I believe it was. Doesn't that constitute a violation of his probation for his weapons conviction (he pled guilty in the offseason)?Shouldn't the NFL have already suspended him for the weapons offense? How can they let this guy stay on the field?If Florida is anything like Texas (Bush anyone?), the Rules of Evidence are mor lax in a probation revocation proceeding. In a criminal case you have the Beyond a Reasonable Doubt Standard of Proof (See OJ criminal case outcome); in a probation revocation case, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (a more likely than not standard -- see OJ's wrongful death case). THAT BEING SAID, they're still needs to be a hearing and the State still needs to prove he violated his probation. What matters also is the severity of the crime he's on probation for. If it's a cheesy misdemeanor, courts are less likely to mess with their probationers than if he's on probation for a high crime like rape or aggravated assault. So to answer your question, while the rules of evidence are more lax, Due Process under the Constituion requires that he gets at least a hearing. I think he walks away with a proverbial slap on the wrist - maybe more community service hours or afew days in the can - of course depending on the underlying (probationary) offense. As far as cameras are concerned, they are usually not "night vision" so the puking and even the identifaction of the "puker" will not be so clear. He wins yet again.
chris1969
Footballguy
I'm not sure he did anything to violate his probation for the weapons charge.We've been talking about the achohol to minors charge, because a condition of his probation was to stay away from alchohol.Hmm maybe I'm wrong on this, but if the minors charge is pending, then it must have been the weapons charge that the probation was violated on. I wonder if the weapons charge is serious enough to merit more from the court?awaits el pasoForget this most recent event, what about the (maybe more, I don't know) charge that is still pending against him? Providing alcohol to minors, I believe it was. Doesn't that constitute a violation of his probation for his weapons conviction (he pled guilty in the offseason)?Shouldn't the NFL have already suspended him for the weapons offense? How can they let this guy stay on the field?If Florida is anything like Texas (Bush anyone?), the Rules of Evidence are mor lax in a probation revocation proceeding. In a criminal case you have the Beyond a Reasonable Doubt Standard of Proof (See OJ criminal case outcome); in a probation revocation case, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (a more likely than not standard -- see OJ's wrongful death case). THAT BEING SAID, they're still needs to be a hearing and the State still needs to prove he violated his probation. What matters also is the severity of the crime he's on probation for. If it's a cheesy misdemeanor, courts are less likely to mess with their probationers than if he's on probation for a high crime like rape or aggravated assault. So to answer your question, while the rules of evidence are more lax, Due Process under the Constituion requires that he gets at least a hearing. I think he walks away with a proverbial slap on the wrist - maybe more community service hours or afew days in the can - of course depending on the underlying (probationary) offense. As far as cameras are concerned, they are usually not "night vision" so the puking and even the identifaction of the "puker" will not be so clear. He wins yet again.
Last edited by a moderator:
elpasotexan
Footballguy
Depends on the weapons charge. Weapons charges vary from misdemeanor to felony cases. Typically, guns charges not federalized are typically guns charges (gun in a nightclub) or switchblade/ knuckles type cases., Guns charges may be taken MUCH more seriously.As far as probation violations, timing is everything. If he was PLACE on probation AFTER he picked up the providing alcohol to a minor, he's ok. Think of probation as a contract. If they contract states from this day foward "Thou shall not", every violation of the "thou shalll not" can cause probation to be revoked. With Henry, I don't know this timeline. It seemed he was in trouble so much I couldn't keep up. Know if you're saying he's on probation for providing a minor alcohol, here in Texas, it a Minor (Class b?) misdemeanor. Slap on the wrist. Right above speeding. Advantage Henry.I'm not sure he did anything to violate his probation for the weapons charge.We've been talking about the achohol to minors charge, because a condition of his probation was to stay away from alchohol.Hmm maybe I'm wrong on this, but if the minors charge is pending, then it must have been the weapons charge that the probation was violated on. I wonder if the weapons charge is serious enough to merit more from the court?awaits el pasoForget this most recent event, what about the (maybe more, I don't know) charge that is still pending against him? Providing alcohol to minors, I believe it was. Doesn't that constitute a violation of his probation for his weapons conviction (he pled guilty in the offseason)?Shouldn't the NFL have already suspended him for the weapons offense? How can they let this guy stay on the field?If Florida is anything like Texas (Bush anyone?), the Rules of Evidence are mor lax in a probation revocation proceeding. In a criminal case you have the Beyond a Reasonable Doubt Standard of Proof (See OJ criminal case outcome); in a probation revocation case, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence (a more likely than not standard -- see OJ's wrongful death case). THAT BEING SAID, they're still needs to be a hearing and the State still needs to prove he violated his probation. What matters also is the severity of the crime he's on probation for. If it's a cheesy misdemeanor, courts are less likely to mess with their probationers than if he's on probation for a high crime like rape or aggravated assault. So to answer your question, while the rules of evidence are more lax, Due Process under the Constituion requires that he gets at least a hearing. I think he walks away with a proverbial slap on the wrist - maybe more community service hours or afew days in the can - of course depending on the underlying (probationary) offense. As far as cameras are concerned, they are usually not "night vision" so the puking and even the identifaction of the "puker" will not be so clear. He wins yet again.
elpasotexan
Footballguy
R U saying he was put on probation for providing alcohol to a minor?
chris1969
Footballguy
I assumed since he was told to stay away from achohol that it was the achohol to minors charge he was on probation for, but the more I think about it the wepons charge came first and I know he does have a charge still pending.....I'm off to the net to see if I can find out more info on the weapons charge.
elpasotexan
Footballguy
No alcohol is typical of any probation. I'm out til tommorrow.
chris1969
Footballguy
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...260319/1035/SPT
Henry is on two years probation in Florida after pleading guilty Sept. 13 in Orlando to a charge of possessing a concealed weapon. It is unclear at this point if Henry's involvement with Thurman's case violates his probation conditions.
Thurman is the sixth Bengals player to be arrested since the end of last season. Henry is the most notable of those players, having been arrested four times on various charges. He pleaded guilty to marijuana possession charges in Kenton County in March but avoided jail time by completing a drug rehabilitation program. He also faces a DUI charge in Clermont County and three charges of unlawful transactions with minors stemming from a June arrest in Covington for providing alcohol to three underage girls.
As part of a $2,500 bond in that case, Kenton District Judge Doug Grothaus ordered Henry to stay away from alcohol and minors.
Looks like it was from the Marijuana charge and that would be in Ohio.
Also I believe in the CBA if you violate probation on a substance violation, it's like another substance violation. Nobody's confirmed this yet though.
I think he's screwed.
Henry is on two years probation in Florida after pleading guilty Sept. 13 in Orlando to a charge of possessing a concealed weapon. It is unclear at this point if Henry's involvement with Thurman's case violates his probation conditions.
Thurman is the sixth Bengals player to be arrested since the end of last season. Henry is the most notable of those players, having been arrested four times on various charges. He pleaded guilty to marijuana possession charges in Kenton County in March but avoided jail time by completing a drug rehabilitation program. He also faces a DUI charge in Clermont County and three charges of unlawful transactions with minors stemming from a June arrest in Covington for providing alcohol to three underage girls.
As part of a $2,500 bond in that case, Kenton District Judge Doug Grothaus ordered Henry to stay away from alcohol and minors.
Looks like it was from the Marijuana charge and that would be in Ohio.
Also I believe in the CBA if you violate probation on a substance violation, it's like another substance violation. Nobody's confirmed this yet though.
I think he's screwed.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Apparently the Thurman arrest video, complete with Henry yakking out the window is available for viewing on the 'net. Haven't seen it yet, but I wonder if that has any influence in a court?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
This article is pure speculation - the writer even states that he doesn't know what Henry's probation conditions are, and thus can't know if he's violated them. And I don't think that alcohol fits under a NFL "substance violation".
G-Money
Footballguy
Yeah right, ask Koren Robinson about that one.
elpasotexan
Footballguy
Unless someone can POSITIVELY:1. Authenticate the tape (show it's what it purports to be, not a fake);2. ID him (not through hearsay, mind you); and3. Show he was drinking.Any attorney worth his law degree would win if ALL THE STATE HAD WAS THIS VIDEO. With live witnesses, the outcome may be different.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Do you know the difference between DUI and drinking alcohol?
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I'm not a lawyer, but unless it is illegal to puke I wouldn't think so. The smartest decision the dude made was to not get behind the wheel.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Not many people are on board with this yet, but I think that the Bengals are going to have three top 30 receivers this year and that the gap from #1 to #3 won't be all that wide. i.e. it has nothing to do with TJH being hurt -- Henry is going to produce unless he gets booted.
Even more out there, I think Washington will be almost as valuable if Henry is suspended. It's the system -- great running game, great QB, no TE, and 3 skilled receivers with either #1 or #2 drawing double coverage means the #3 guy will ALWAYS be open.
Even more out there, I think Washington will be almost as valuable if Henry is suspended. It's the system -- great running game, great QB, no TE, and 3 skilled receivers with either #1 or #2 drawing double coverage means the #3 guy will ALWAYS be open.
