Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education (1 Viewer)

[BladeRunner]

"Don't worry everyone! Nothing to see here. This isn't a big deal. It's only a small hole."

- timscochet on the deck of the titanic

 

[FairWarning]

Honest question Tim - when will everything racewise be even? I’m really sick of the justification of actions because of things that occurred 3-400 years ago. Other minorities IN YOUR AREA have long moved on and ahead in life.

 

[The Commish]

"Don't worry everyone! Nothing to see here. This isn't a big deal. It's only a small hole."

- timscochet on the deck of the titanic

I mean, he cares about this particular kind of racism as others do when it's reversed...not sure why he's being singled out. And, no, this isn't a defense of Tim....two sides, same coin.

 

[stlrams]

"Don't worry everyone! Nothing to see here. This isn't a big deal. It's only a small hole."

- timscochet on the deck of the titanic

He is just trolling.. nothing to see here.

 

[The Z Machine]

Look, Berkeley people are gonna write and do stupid stuff. It's been that way for a look time. This is just another in a long line of misguided attempts to right social injustices. I get the idea, but codifying it in this way was dumb.

Also the co-ops at Berkeley had the best drugs and threw the best parties. #CasaZimbabwe Northside

 

[timschochet]

"Don't worry everyone! Nothing to see here. This isn't a big deal. It's only a small hole."

- timscochet on the deck of the titanic

He is just trolling.. nothing to see here.

I don’t troll. And I don’t think we’re on the titanic.

 

[timschochet]

Honest question Tim - when will everything racewise be even? I’m really sick of the justification of actions because of things that occurred 3-400 years ago. Other minorities IN YOUR AREA have long moved on and ahead in life.

Honest answer: it will be even when there is no more institutionalized racism, when there is no more whites privilege, and when blacks have equal economic opportunities to succeed in our society. We’re not close to any of this, sadly.

 

[FairWarning]

Honest question Tim - when will everything racewise be even? I’m really sick of the justification of actions because of things that occurred 3-400 years ago. Other minorities IN YOUR AREA have long moved on and ahead in life.

Honest answer: it will be even when there is no more institutionalized racism, when there is no more whites privilege, and when blacks have equal economic opportunities to succeed in our society. We’re not close to any of this, sadly.

Good luck in your fight.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Back to the subject at hand... A few people have said that the issue of black segregation on college campuses is not a big deal - a faux grievance being pumped by Conservative media. I found a great research paper on the subject that brings real facts and figures to the discussion. The problem is worse than I thought. I encourage you all to read it. The research was done by a young black man, who concludes that black segregation on college campuses is not a new phenomenon. He traces its roots all the way back to the Reconstruction era. Two colleges were studies in detail - Wesleyan and Yale. For those wondering why I have taken an interest in this issue - one of the reasons is because I live smack dab in the middle of these two fine institutions and I regularly hear about all their issues. I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on this. Below are a few snippets:

Separate but Equal, Again - Neo-Segregation in American Higher Education​

Dion J. Pierre​

April 24, 2019

It’s not just racially segregated housing – some elite colleges have had separate graduation ceremonies (Harvard, Syracuse, USC, Stanford, Columbia, UC Berkely, University of Washington)

I belong to the generation of Americans who grew up believing that this was more than just a legal matter. It was—and is—a moral principle. Segregation is wrong, whether it is imposed by government fiat or by the policy of some private entity. Segregated lunch counters in privately-owned restaurants and segregated movie theatres in privately-owned cinemas were as bad as segregated government facilities.

From the start he said that neo-segregation was nothing new. It had been going on for decades and was still gaining momentum. He was willing to trace its deep origins back to the black separatist movements of the early twentieth century and even earlier into the Reconstruction era. The black college students in the 1960s who began to demand various forms of separation under the banner of Malcolm X could consciously look back to a long tradition of black separatism. That tradition had always been a marginal part of the black community. Oddly, at the moment of the greatest achievement of the Civil Rights Movement, when the prospects of racial integration had never seemed brighter, a new spirit of self-imposed racial segregation descended on some of the most successful and privileged members of the black community: students who had been admitted to elite colleges and universities.

What we found was that neo-segregation is widespread if not pervasive. About 46 percent (80 colleges out of 173 surveyed) segregate student orientation programs; 43 percent (75 colleges out of the total) offer segregated residential arrangements; and 72 percent (125 colleges out of the total) segregate graduation ceremonies. Though these arrangements are ostensibly voluntary, students can’t easily opt out.

Segregation of racial and ethnic groups is intended to benefit the members of the minority groups who are thought by their college administrations to be vulnerable and in need of the life-enhancing benefits of group solidarity. The most readily apparent harm from such segregation is that it fosters a sense of insecurity. The members of the segregated group are taught to fear other groups, especially white students. They are encouraged to see themselves as victims or potential victims, and as heirs to past grievances. Training students to see themselves as vulnerable to the transgressions of a larger, intolerant or bigoted community is poor preparation for life in American society. Students who venture outside the segregated bubble may indeed encounter some hostile attitudes and racial stereotypes, but surely it is better to learn how to deal with these realities than to hide from them.

Segregation is harmful in another respect as well. It motivates an unending search for evidence that the larger community is hostile to the minority group. The concepts of “microaggressions” and “implicit bias” are the weaponized versions of this search. The music that accompanies segregation is a combination of anger and suspicion. Sentencing bright young people to four years of intensive isolation in a segregated community that plays this music on endless loop demoralizes students and undermines their education.

On balance, neo-segregation is harmful to those who are segregated. It is also harmful to the whole community of students.

The public should care because neo-segregation is the breeding ground of racial conflict in American society. Neo-segregation inculcates in young people the readiness to cling to a victim identity at the expense of becoming a positive member of the larger community. No doubt a large portion of the racial grievance politics we see in society at large these days is the carefully nurtured product of campus neo-segregation. We as a people are increasingly self-divided and well-supplied with stereotypes and invective to use against each other. Our descent into such polarization has many causes but neo-segregation is among the deepest.

A research paper from a biased source with an agenda.

National Association of Scholars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Association of Scholars (NAS) is an American non-profit politically conservative advocacy organization, with a particular interest in education.[2][3] It opposes a perceived political correctness on college campuses and supports a return to mid-20th-century curricular and scholarship norms, and an increase in conservative representation in faculty.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense. You do this every single time when Source X doesn't fit your far-left bias.

GTHO with your stupid nonsense.

This insulting behavior of being called stupid is really getting tiresome.

There is an ignore feature you can use.

I still see it when other people quote it.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think this is true on this new message board.

That's correct. Much better now. I don't see quotes of ignored users in quotes.

 

[MAC_32]

Second, why should you need to understand what these folks are doing? They’re a tiny bunch of crazy idiots. They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me. Why should I care? Why do you care?

It's not an isolated phenomenon. It's been going on for years.

Why do I care? Because it's a direct assault on the racism cure advocated by MLK, which centered on integration and fair treatment.

Preface - the college I work for is NOT to be confused with Cal-Berkley. We're small (about 1,000 students) and overtly diverse, but we don't have organizations that capture every demographic. A large chunk of our first generation students may be low income minorities, but our data suggested those within that latter bucket and were not affiliated with an organization (athletics, performing arts, etc) on-campus were woefully unsuccessful. As a result Student Affairs helped develop a Black Student Union. It's new so it's not born out in graduation rates yet and a small enough sample size to be inherently volatile, but our retention rates for this group since its inception has whiplashed in a positive direction. We expect that to begin leading to increased graduation rates as more of these students complete their programs.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

dude, you're getting worse. take a break or something.

Oh, hang on rover. This might be my first hour.

you used to be a pretty decent poster. your recent stuff isn't interesting or entertaining. the last thing this place needs is another jon. one is too many. take a step back.

This is ironic considering all you do is take shots at other posters and have never been interesting or entertaining.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The tact was bad, but ek's point still stands. This kind of stuff would be vomited on if the races were reversed. The universal response should be it's ****ty behavior that no one condones. End of sentence.

Of course...the discrimination is awful.
But this does happen with the races reversed...all over the place. It happens in pricing/appraisals and rent costs and so on.
It should not be condoned in any way. But acting as if the reverse is not really a problem anymore...than bringing up stories (which are likely in the minority statistically to the reverse...) seems to be a way of saying...see, it happens the other way too. (but ignoring how much worse it is for people of color overall still).

I have two daughters. When we would talk to one of them about misbehaving she would reference bad behavior by the other child.

Then they grew up and no longer do this.

 

[FairWarning]

Second, why should you need to understand what these folks are doing? They’re a tiny bunch of crazy idiots. They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me. Why should I care? Why do you care?

It's not an isolated phenomenon. It's been going on for years.

Why do I care? Because it's a direct assault on the racism cure advocated by MLK, which centered on integration and fair treatment.

Preface - the college I work for is NOT to be confused with Cal-Berkley. We're small (about 1,000 students) and overtly diverse, but we don't have organizations that capture every demographic. A large chunk of our first generation students may be low income minorities, but our data suggested those within that latter bucket and were not affiliated with an organization (athletics, performing arts, etc) on-campus were woefully unsuccessful. As a result Student Affairs helped develop a Black Student Union. It's new so it's not born out in graduation rates yet and a small enough sample size to be inherently volatile, but our retention rates for this group since its inception has whiplashed in a positive direction. We expect that to begin leading to increased graduation rates as more of these students complete their programs.

I don’t see a problem with the student Union as long as anyone can use it. I remember Western Mich having them. I find the irony in places like Cal Berkeley preaching liberal ideas, then this comes along, or a right wing speaker comes in and all hell breaks loose.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Honest question Tim - when will everything racewise be even? I’m really sick of the justification of actions because of things that occurred 3-400 years ago. Other minorities IN YOUR AREA have long moved on and ahead in life.

Honest answer: it will be even when there is no more institutionalized racism, when there is no more whites privilege, and when blacks have equal economic opportunities to succeed in our society. We’re not close to any of this, sadly.

If you think Whites have it good now just wait another 20 years when theyre the minority.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I have two daughters. When we would talk to one of them about misbehaving she would reference bad behavior by the other child.

Then they grew up and no longer do this.

You should tell this to our conservative friends in this forum, including the one who loved your post. Their insta-response to anything portraying Trump or Republicans at fault is, "but they did it first."

Both sides need to own responsibility like adults.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I have two daughters. When we would talk to one of them about misbehaving she would reference bad behavior by the other child.

Then they grew up and no longer do this.

You should tell this to our conservative friends in this forum, including the one who loved your post. Their insta-response to anything portraying Trump or Republicans at fault is, "but they did it first."

Both sides need to own responsibility like adults.

You just did it.

 

[BladeRunner]

I have two daughters. When we would talk to one of them about misbehaving she would reference bad behavior by the other child.

Then they grew up and no longer do this.

You should tell this to our conservative friends in this forum, including the one who loved your post. Their insta-response to anything portraying Trump or Republicans at fault is, "but they did it first."

Both sides need to own responsibility like adults.

Don't be a coward. Say my name.

So much passive aggressiveness from you guys. Nut up already.

 

[MAC_32]

Second, why should you need to understand what these folks are doing? They’re a tiny bunch of crazy idiots. They don’t want to be around white people? Fine with me. Why should I care? Why do you care?

It's not an isolated phenomenon. It's been going on for years.

Why do I care? Because it's a direct assault on the racism cure advocated by MLK, which centered on integration and fair treatment.

Preface - the college I work for is NOT to be confused with Cal-Berkley. We're small (about 1,000 students) and overtly diverse, but we don't have organizations that capture every demographic. A large chunk of our first generation students may be low income minorities, but our data suggested those within that latter bucket and were not affiliated with an organization (athletics, performing arts, etc) on-campus were woefully unsuccessful. As a result Student Affairs helped develop a Black Student Union. It's new so it's not born out in graduation rates yet and a small enough sample size to be inherently volatile, but our retention rates for this group since its inception has whiplashed in a positive direction. We expect that to begin leading to increased graduation rates as more of these students complete their programs.

I don’t see a problem with the student Union as long as anyone can use it. I remember Western Mich having them. I find the irony in places like Cal Berkeley preaching liberal ideas, then this comes along, or a right wing speaker comes in and all hell breaks loose.

I agree. I also think it's important not to react to outliers intended to develop information bias as @djmich mentioned in this thread. The same dynamic is at play here, but it's eliciting a reaction from the right instead of the left. The collective political we needs to do a better job combatting human nature in this regard. Most institutions of higher learning are not promoting reverse racism and most cops are good people.

 

[Captain Cranks]

You just did it.

Not 1:1 but point taken. I'll own it.

 

[ekbeats]

Most institutions of higher learning are not promoting reverse racism

almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies.

 

[timschochet]

Most institutions of higher learning are not promoting reverse racism

almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies.

Voluntary segregation by minorities is not the same as reverse racism, or any Kline of racism. You continue to conflate these.

 

[ekbeats]

Voluntary segregation by minorities is not the same as reverse racism, or any Kline of racism. You continue to conflate these.

This is the part where Liberals twist word meanings to fit a political argument. Webster’s definition of racism is: “a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.”

So if blacks segregate voluntarily it’s not racism, I guess because there’s an assumption that they don’t consider their race superior. But if a white group segregates based on race, it’s racist because there’s an assumption that they must be doing it because they consider their race superior. Both of those assumptions should never be automatically made.

 

[BladeRunner]

Most institutions of higher learning are not promoting reverse racism

almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies.

Voluntary segregation by minorities is not the same as reverse racism, or any Kline of racism. You continue to conflate these.

Not when they are advertising explicitly or implicitly "NO White People". THAT is the very definition of racism.

 

[Captain Cranks]

We got this little golf club we're starting up, Jim. Would be great if you joined. Don't bring your white friend, though. Nothing against him, but this club is for blacks only which is totally cool because we're a minority.

 

[timschochet]

Most institutions of higher learning are not promoting reverse racism

almost half of all colleges (43%) offer residential programs that are segregated by race. 46% have segregated student orientation, and 72% have segregated graduation ceremonies.

Voluntary segregation by minorities is not the same as reverse racism, or any Kline of racism. You continue to conflate these.

Not when they are advertising explicitly or implicitly "NO White People". THAT is the very definition of racism.

It is. But that’s not what @ekbeats is referring to when he quotes those statistics about voluntary segregation. That’s why I wrote he’s conflating two issues.

 

[ekbeats]

Remember that guy on the Patriots - the Deflater? Well, just call me the Conflater.