Shooting @ KC Chiefs facility--2 people shot (1 player) (1 Viewer)

[letter_j]

According to Twitter, somehow Scorpius Dragon is involved.

WTF???

 

[Sweet Feet]

He sounds rational.This idea that nobody can judge is what's irrational. We're members of the same society in which Belcher and the victims live. We have the right, I'd suggest even a duty, to castigate taking the life of other members of our society.Taking the 'nobody can judge' mentality to the extreme, why do we even have laws and courts then? We should just wait and have God judge when the person dies since nobody on Earth can judge.This society had less crime when their was a collective judging and shaming of egregious actions, and cultures like Japan that maintain that collective judging and shaming still have less crime.Besides, we're not talking about judging someone as looking like a criminal because they have too many tattoos like the recent Colin Kaepernick brouhaha. We're talking about judging actual criminal behavior, and murder at that.And there's plenty of judging and tough talking of dead people. It's usually called history. Were Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Timothy McVeigh good people, bad people, or who are we to judge a dead man?

Sorry.. Im not going to agree with someone saying they'd like to #### on the "losers" grave. He sounds very rational..

 

[gethugefast1]

Play all DST's against KC weeks 13, 14, 15 & 16.

 

[letter_j]

A little more about Belcher:

During each Chiefs practice, Jovan Belcher sprinted to the front of the line ahead of any teammates who dared to out-run him.Whether it was running from calisthenics to position drills, or from sideline to sideline during wind sprints, Belcher beat his fellow linebackers down the field. Every time.It was that kind of hustle and desire that fueled Belcher’s rise from small-school linebacker to a three-year starter for the Chiefs.But somewhere all that energy went haywire on Saturday morning when Belcher shot and killed Kasandra Perkins, who was the mother of his three-month old daughter, at their Kansas City home. He shot himself to death 20 minutes later in front of Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel and general manager Scott Pioli on the parking lot of the team’s practice facility.“This wasn’t forthcoming of his character,” said former college teammate Raibonne Charles, who played defensive line at the University of Maine. “Jovan is a very passionate, very emotional person, and you could tell that by watching him play the game. But this is a shock to us all.”Belcher, 25, beat the odds by making the Chiefs as an undrafted rookie, playing mostly on special teams in 2009. He became a starter at inside linebacker in 2010 and made a career-most 120 tackles in 2011.This season, he started 10 of the first 11 games, recording 37 tackles. In four seasons, he never missed a game and was seldom on the team’s injury report.So when news of the murder-suicide spread across the country Saturday morning, those who knew him the longest were in a state of shock.“I just crumbled inside,” Charles said. “He was such an inspiration to me as a player. He was able to accomplish through his hard work and overcome so much …”Former Maine defensive line coach Dwayne Wilmot, now the defensive line coach at Yale, hinted that Belcher, who earned a degree in three-and-a-half years in child development, overcame some immaturity issues early in his college career.“Everyone has times they wish they had made different decisions, and Jovan had some of those,” Wilmot said, declining to elaborate. “But he matured and grew as a person to be the man everyone knew and loved.”That love, Wilmot said, particularly showed during game days, in which Belcher’s family came to see him play. Belcher’s mother was at his home when the shooting occurred.“He lived for his mom and his family, and vice versa,” Wilmot said. “They were one of the closer groups I’ve ever come across. They warmed your heart. I get emotional thinking about it.”Belcher participated in an anti-domestic initiative, the Male Athletes Against Violence organization, while in college and mentored a local youngster by going on outings with him.All of which makes Saturday’s events all the more baffling. Belcher, who was introverted in the locker room and didn’t call attention to himself, was never a discipline problem on the team or faced any known legal problems while with the Chiefs.“Jovan was a happy, proud father, with pictures of his baby on his Facebook page,” Belcher’s agent, Joe Linta, told Sports Illustrated on Saturday. “This is shocking. Something went crazy wrong, and we’ll probably never know what it is.“He came to my youth clinics in the offseason and worked with kids. He was a gracious, unselfish, hard-working, dedicated kid — very, very caring of some of the underprivileged kids who came to the clinics. I saw him in a real positive way.”Belcher did not take the most direct route to the NFL. He played linebacker, offensive tackle, nose guard and fullback at West Babylon High School on Long Island, N.Y., leading his school to its first undefeated regular season as a senior.But Belcher was better known as an All-American prep wrestler and had Division I scholarship offers in that sport. But he wanted to play football, and Maine was the only school to give him that opportunity.“They called and wanted me to play football for them, so I jumped on the first train up there,” Belcher told The Star in August. “I try to bring the wrestling mentality to everything I do. It’s a certain mentality you build in wrestling that brings you through life.“Wrestling really builds your mental toughness. You learn great balance on the field, but it’s mostly mental toughness, pushing through the hard parts.”Belcher started all 45 games in his four-year career at Maine, and as a senior captain led the Black Bears to the playoffs. Belcher rolled up 17 1/2 sacks in his last two years at Maine and was the runner-up for the 2008 Buck Buchanan Award, which is named for the former Chiefs Hall of Famer and given to the best defensive player at that level.“You don’t normally make it to the NFL from the (Division I-AA) level, but it was how he was on the field,” Charles said. “He seemed like his motor never ran out of gas, no matter what happened, and you can tell that by watching him with the Chiefs. He’s always flying to the ball, he’s always in on tackles, he never stops …”“He always did the right thing. He was one of those guys you told him the right way to do it once, and he did it. He never accepted anything less than the best from himself or the guy next to him. He held himself to a high standard on the field and held everybody else the same.”Charles, who trains athletes and plans to play for an indoor football team in the spring, said he had not been in much contact with Belcher in recent years.“He’s busy,” Charles said. “When you get to that level, all of a sudden you have a thousand more friends.”But even his closest friends and teammates had no inkling there were demons inside Belcher that would cause him to snap.“Jovan was one of those guys who was friendly to everybody,” Chiefs quarterback Brady Quinn said. “It wasn’t like he closed himself off or wasn’t cordial. He was there every day in the stretch line, and he was always talking to the quarterbacks, talking trash to us sometimes, joking with us back and forth.“He was one of the guys who was a leader on the team. He would step up and say something to us or try to motivate us no matter what it was, whether it was what he expected out of the offense or what he expected out of the defense. Even during the short period of time I was on the team, he was one of those guys who was able to reach out and be accessible to guys. He made me feel part of the team right away.”

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/3943358/jovan-belcher-was-a-star-wrestler.html#storylink=rss

 

[DesmondBishop]

Apparently CBS thought it was important to discuss the IDP ramifications...

Some dude in one of my leagues posted a "That's tragic" on our message boards then rushed to pick up Belcher's replacement on the WW. Bad, bad, karma.

Why? That move was karma neutral.

as mentioned in the last line of that cbs blurb, and based on a crappy match up, I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be karma negative.

or maybe a karma Chameleon in wait? oh no i didn't go all culture club up in here.

 

[redjake]

Have you ever heard of impulse? He did not have to be sick to do this, just be angry.

Many people kill who are very sane, they just do not like societies rules. Not very hard to understand.

Someone who does something just because it is illegal or immorally wrong to some does not mean they have mental issues, lol, the way of thinking in this country cracks me up. I believe him to just be an angry man who had regrets, obviously to turn the gun on himself.

It scares the F out of me. Not every impulsive action, stupid decision, or lazy, non-decision is the result of some newly identified mental impairment. It's simply irresponsibility. This country needs accountability in the worse way. It can't always be someone's or something's fault all the #######' time.

 

[Jewell]

He sounds rational.This idea that nobody can judge is what's irrational.  We're members of the same society in which Belcher and the victims live.  We have the right, I'd suggest even a duty, to castigate taking the life of other members of our society.Taking the 'nobody can judge' mentality to the extreme, why do we even have laws and courts then?  We should just wait and have God judge when the person dies since nobody on Earth can judge.This society had less crime when their was a collective judging and shaming of egregious actions, and cultures like Japan that maintain that collective judging and shaming still have less crime.Besides, we're not talking about judging someone as looking like a criminal because they have too many tattoos like the recent Colin Kaepernick brouhaha.  We're talking about judging actual criminal behavior, and murder at that.And there's plenty of judging and tough talking of dead people.  It's usually called history.  Were Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Timothy McVeigh good people, bad people, or who are we to judge a dead man?

Sorry.. Im not going to agree with someone saying they'd like to #### on the "losers" grave. He sounds very rational..

Admittedly, I missed the 'pissing on the grave' part. I can see where that's over-the-top.

 

[rickyg]

He sounds rational.This idea that nobody can judge is what's irrational.  We're members of the same society in which Belcher and the victims live.  We have the right, I'd suggest even a duty, to castigate taking the life of other members of our society.Taking the 'nobody can judge' mentality to the extreme, why do we even have laws and courts then?  We should just wait and have God judge when the person dies since nobody on Earth can judge.This society had less crime when their was a collective judging and shaming of egregious actions, and cultures like Japan that maintain that collective judging and shaming still have less crime.Besides, we're not talking about judging someone as looking like a criminal because they have too many tattoos like the recent Colin Kaepernick brouhaha.  We're talking about judging actual criminal behavior, and murder at that.And there's plenty of judging and tough talking of dead people.  It's usually called history.  Were Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Timothy McVeigh good people, bad people, or who are we to judge a dead man?

Sorry.. Im not going to agree with someone saying they'd like to #### on the "losers" grave. He sounds very rational..

Admittedly, I missed the 'pissing on the grave' part. I can see where that's over-the-top.

Once again, to that I say: it's easy for someone who is personally unaffected by this situation to judge what a proper reaction is to this heinous crime. Would this guy be irrational to say that he wants to piss or crap on belchers grave If he were a parent or relative or law friend of the girl he murdered? Maybe this guy was very affected by this news. Maybe for some reason this story hits home for him. I dont think its irrational to feel that about a murderer of innocent people. If belcher wasn't an nfl player, say a nobody, people's reactions to his crime would be very different.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Whatever you think of Romeo's coaching ability, he always seems like a decent man, and the fact that he and Piloi attempted to talk to a distraught murderer with a gun out of more violence speaks volumes about who they are.

Excellent post.On another subject, for all the cost to the taxpayers to incarcerate an individual for life or to execute them, he spared us the expense and time and even paid the $0.45 for the bullet himself.

For those who wonder about premeditation because he had a loaded gun on him, do you realize you probably cross paths with a civilian who is legally carrying a gun several times a week?

I think that's pretty unlikely.assuming 'civilian' excludes law enforcement.

Yes, "civilian" excludes law enforcement. If you live in the continental U.S., about 3% of the population has a permit to carry concealed. Illinois, New York, DC, Hawaii and in California near San Diego, LA and the Bay that percentage is much lower. In Vermont, Alaska, Texas, Arizona, Indiana and Pennsylvania those numbers may easily double the 3% average. So unless you are in a gun-unfriendly area, or have no social life, I think it is pretty likely. You just don't necessarily know about it.No idea if this applies to Belcher or not, but I'd say it's not very uncommon for someone with money and a clean criminal background to have a gun and permit if they want one even in Kalifornia or DC. As mentioned before, it's not even required to have a permit to carry a gun in your car in Missouri. I don't think it's very likely that this was premeditated, and for a very big, athletic man to resort to violence of that severity against a woman suggests very high emotions, and the following suicide suggests that it wasn't justifiable, so I'm going with a crime of passion.

 

[Sweet Feet]

He sounds rational.This idea that nobody can judge is what's irrational.  We're members of the same society in which Belcher and the victims live.  We have the right, I'd suggest even a duty, to castigate taking the life of other members of our society.Taking the 'nobody can judge' mentality to the extreme, why do we even have laws and courts then?  We should just wait and have God judge when the person dies since nobody on Earth can judge.This society had less crime when their was a collective judging and shaming of egregious actions, and cultures like Japan that maintain that collective judging and shaming still have less crime.Besides, we're not talking about judging someone as looking like a criminal because they have too many tattoos like the recent Colin Kaepernick brouhaha.  We're talking about judging actual criminal behavior, and murder at that.And there's plenty of judging and tough talking of dead people.  It's usually called history.  Were Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Timothy McVeigh good people, bad people, or who are we to judge a dead man?

Sorry.. Im not going to agree with someone saying they'd like to #### on the "losers" grave. He sounds very rational..

Admittedly, I missed the 'pissing on the grave' part. I can see where that's over-the-top.

Once again, to that I say: it's easy for someone who is personally unaffected by this situation to judge what a proper reaction is to this heinous crime. Would this guy be irrational to say that he wants to piss or crap on belchers grave If he were a parent or relative or law friend of the girl he murdered? Maybe this guy was very affected by this news. Maybe for some reason this story hits home for him. I dont think its irrational to feel that about a murderer of innocent people. If belcher wasn't an nfl player, say a nobody, people's reactions to his crime would be very different.

It just stinks regardless... 2 people are dead along with a child not having parents... No winners here. I understand that people are upset but hate doesnt solve anything.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I agree completely. A few years ago, I thought I witnessed a random person whom I didn't know personally die a horrifying death just 10-20 yards away from me (it turned out that they survived; it was all over the local news for several days after the incident) and I was shaken up for several weeks afterward.

No offense, but anyone sharing your sentiments ought to head straight to their local war veteran's charity and cut a check.

 

[MAC_32]

If belcher wasn't an nfl player, say a nobody, people's reactions to his crime would be very different.

Not mine. Sadly there seems to be a story like this once/day in Cleveland, each time I see/hear it I cringe and immediately my mind goes to the kids left behind and the friends, family, and anyone else effected. Hell, just last week there was a woman that (allegedly) beat her 3 year old to death, literally threw him in the garbage, then staged a kidnapping 5 days after he was killed.I was more sick hearing about the garbage woman than Belcher. Much more.

 

[rickyg]

If belcher wasn't an nfl player, say a nobody, people's reactions to his crime would be very different.

Not mine. Sadly there seems to be a story like this once/day in Cleveland, each time I see/hear it I cringe and immediately my mind goes to the kids left behind and the friends, family, and anyone else effected. Hell, just last week there was a woman that (allegedly) beat her 3 year old to death, literally threw him in the garbage, then staged a kidnapping 5 days after he was killed.I was more sick hearing about the garbage woman than Belcher. Much more.

To clarify what I meant by that, I was suggesting that if he wasn't an nfl player people would look at him with the same disdain as they would with any criminal off the street. No remorse and disgusted.

 

[Steed]

One person in the comments thread of the deadspin article claimed to be a paramedic that treated Belcher's injured hand after he put it through a window because of an argument with his girlfriend at the time. This was back at the university of Maine and with a different gf.

I wonder if anyone can confirm it.

 

[MAC_32]

If belcher wasn't an nfl player, say a nobody, people's reactions to his crime would be very different.

Not mine. Sadly there seems to be a story like this once/day in Cleveland, each time I see/hear it I cringe and immediately my mind goes to the kids left behind and the friends, family, and anyone else effected. Hell, just last week there was a woman that (allegedly) beat her 3 year old to death, literally threw him in the garbage, then staged a kidnapping 5 days after he was killed.I was more sick hearing about the garbage woman than Belcher. Much more.

To clarify what I meant by that, I was suggesting that if he wasn't an nfl player people would look at him with the same disdain as they would with any criminal off the street. No remorse and disgusted.

Maybe some, maybe a lot, I don't know...but not me. Maybe I'm the minority, but no remorse and disgusted pretty accurately describes how I feel in any story like this one.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Whatever you think of Romeo's coaching ability, he always seems like a decent man, and the fact that he and Piloi attempted to talk to a distraught murderer with a gun out of more violence speaks volumes about who they are.

Excellent post.On another subject, for all the cost to the taxpayers to incarcerate an individual for life or to execute them, he spared us the expense and time and even paid the $0.45 for the bullet himself.

For those who wonder about premeditation because he had a loaded gun on him, do you realize you probably cross paths with a civilian who is legally carrying a gun several times a week?

I think that's pretty unlikely.assuming 'civilian' excludes law enforcement.

Yes, "civilian" excludes law enforcement. If you live in the continental U.S., about 3% of the population has a permit to carry concealed. Illinois, New York, DC, Hawaii and in California near San Diego, LA and the Bay that percentage is much lower. In Vermont, Alaska, Texas, Arizona, Indiana and Pennsylvania those numbers may easily double the 3% average. So unless you are in a gun-unfriendly area, or have no social life, I think it is pretty likely. You just don't necessarily know about it.

that's where I live

 

[Phenix]

I'm a person who does not kill, thats who I am.You have got to be kidding me with your comment. Who are we? We are not murders, I hope.

Sorry, Im just not one to cast down stones upon anothers mistake. What he did was wrong and I do not condone his horrible acts.

A mistake?A mistake is leaving money in your jeans when you wash clothes.A mistake is not intentionally taking someones life.I'm sorry you can not understand the difference between the two my friend.

You're tough talking a dead man so I'm sorry that you feel the need to be rude and irrational. Javon Belcher answers to none of us.. period.

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

 

[Phenix]

In fact, the belief that Americans have in Gd originated in the uk and Europe...you know, where the Vatican is?

christianity originated in italy? that's a new one.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

 

[Phenix]

He sounds rational.This idea that nobody can judge is what's irrational.  We're members of the same society in which Belcher and the victims live.  We have the right, I'd suggest even a duty, to castigate taking the life of other members of our society.Taking the 'nobody can judge' mentality to the extreme, why do we even have laws and courts then?  We should just wait and have God judge when the person dies since nobody on Earth can judge.This society had less crime when their was a collective judging and shaming of egregious actions, and cultures like Japan that maintain that collective judging and shaming still have less crime.Besides, we're not talking about judging someone as looking like a criminal because they have too many tattoos like the recent Colin Kaepernick brouhaha.  We're talking about judging actual criminal behavior, and murder at that.And there's plenty of judging and tough talking of dead people.  It's usually called history.  Were Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Timothy McVeigh good people, bad people, or who are we to judge a dead man?

Sorry.. Im not going to agree with someone saying they'd like to #### on the "losers" grave. He sounds very rational..

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

 

[Phenix]

A little more about Belcher:

During each Chiefs practice, Jovan Belcher sprinted to the front of the line ahead of any teammates who dared to out-run him.Whether it was running from calisthenics to position drills, or from sideline to sideline during wind sprints, Belcher beat his fellow linebackers down the field. Every time.It was that kind of hustle and desire that fueled Belcher’s rise from small-school linebacker to a three-year starter for the Chiefs.But somewhere all that energy went haywire on Saturday morning when Belcher shot and killed Kasandra Perkins, who was the mother of his three-month old daughter, at their Kansas City home. He shot himself to death 20 minutes later in front of Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel and general manager Scott Pioli on the parking lot of the team’s practice facility.“This wasn’t forthcoming of his character,” said former college teammate Raibonne Charles, who played defensive line at the University of Maine. “Jovan is a very passionate, very emotional person, and you could tell that by watching him play the game. But this is a shock to us all.”Belcher, 25, beat the odds by making the Chiefs as an undrafted rookie, playing mostly on special teams in 2009. He became a starter at inside linebacker in 2010 and made a career-most 120 tackles in 2011.This season, he started 10 of the first 11 games, recording 37 tackles. In four seasons, he never missed a game and was seldom on the team’s injury report.So when news of the murder-suicide spread across the country Saturday morning, those who knew him the longest were in a state of shock.“I just crumbled inside,” Charles said. “He was such an inspiration to me as a player. He was able to accomplish through his hard work and overcome so much …”Former Maine defensive line coach Dwayne Wilmot, now the defensive line coach at Yale, hinted that Belcher, who earned a degree in three-and-a-half years in child development, overcame some immaturity issues early in his college career.“Everyone has times they wish they had made different decisions, and Jovan had some of those,” Wilmot said, declining to elaborate. “But he matured and grew as a person to be the man everyone knew and loved.”That love, Wilmot said, particularly showed during game days, in which Belcher’s family came to see him play. Belcher’s mother was at his home when the shooting occurred.“He lived for his mom and his family, and vice versa,” Wilmot said. “They were one of the closer groups I’ve ever come across. They warmed your heart. I get emotional thinking about it.”Belcher participated in an anti-domestic initiative, the Male Athletes Against Violence organization, while in college and mentored a local youngster by going on outings with him.All of which makes Saturday’s events all the more baffling. Belcher, who was introverted in the locker room and didn’t call attention to himself, was never a discipline problem on the team or faced any known legal problems while with the Chiefs.“Jovan was a happy, proud father, with pictures of his baby on his Facebook page,” Belcher’s agent, Joe Linta, told Sports Illustrated on Saturday. “This is shocking. Something went crazy wrong, and we’ll probably never know what it is.“He came to my youth clinics in the offseason and worked with kids. He was a gracious, unselfish, hard-working, dedicated kid — very, very caring of some of the underprivileged kids who came to the clinics. I saw him in a real positive way.”Belcher did not take the most direct route to the NFL. He played linebacker, offensive tackle, nose guard and fullback at West Babylon High School on Long Island, N.Y., leading his school to its first undefeated regular season as a senior.But Belcher was better known as an All-American prep wrestler and had Division I scholarship offers in that sport. But he wanted to play football, and Maine was the only school to give him that opportunity.“They called and wanted me to play football for them, so I jumped on the first train up there,” Belcher told The Star in August. “I try to bring the wrestling mentality to everything I do. It’s a certain mentality you build in wrestling that brings you through life.“Wrestling really builds your mental toughness. You learn great balance on the field, but it’s mostly mental toughness, pushing through the hard parts.”Belcher started all 45 games in his four-year career at Maine, and as a senior captain led the Black Bears to the playoffs. Belcher rolled up 17 1/2 sacks in his last two years at Maine and was the runner-up for the 2008 Buck Buchanan Award, which is named for the former Chiefs Hall of Famer and given to the best defensive player at that level.“You don’t normally make it to the NFL from the (Division I-AA) level, but it was how he was on the field,” Charles said. “He seemed like his motor never ran out of gas, no matter what happened, and you can tell that by watching him with the Chiefs. He’s always flying to the ball, he’s always in on tackles, he never stops …”“He always did the right thing. He was one of those guys you told him the right way to do it once, and he did it. He never accepted anything less than the best from himself or the guy next to him. He held himself to a high standard on the field and held everybody else the same.”Charles, who trains athletes and plans to play for an indoor football team in the spring, said he had not been in much contact with Belcher in recent years.“He’s busy,” Charles said. “When you get to that level, all of a sudden you have a thousand more friends.”But even his closest friends and teammates had no inkling there were demons inside Belcher that would cause him to snap.“Jovan was one of those guys who was friendly to everybody,” Chiefs quarterback Brady Quinn said. “It wasn’t like he closed himself off or wasn’t cordial. He was there every day in the stretch line, and he was always talking to the quarterbacks, talking trash to us sometimes, joking with us back and forth.“He was one of the guys who was a leader on the team. He would step up and say something to us or try to motivate us no matter what it was, whether it was what he expected out of the offense or what he expected out of the defense. Even during the short period of time I was on the team, he was one of those guys who was able to reach out and be accessible to guys. He made me feel part of the team right away.”

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/3943358/jovan-belcher-was-a-star-wrestler.html#storylink=rss

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Pregame show just started 10 minutes ago and I already had to turn it off. What a great guy, thankful, super teammate, tragedy etc etc. Hes a pos, cry for her and that baby left without parents.

 

[Jobber]

A little more about Belcher:

During each Chiefs practice, Jovan Belcher sprinted to the front of the line ahead of any teammates who dared to out-run him.Whether it was running from calisthenics to position drills, or from sideline to sideline during wind sprints, Belcher beat his fellow linebackers down the field. Every time.It was that kind of hustle and desire that fueled Belcher’s rise from small-school linebacker to a three-year starter for the Chiefs.But somewhere all that energy went haywire on Saturday morning when Belcher shot and killed Kasandra Perkins, who was the mother of his three-month old daughter, at their Kansas City home. He shot himself to death 20 minutes later in front of Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel and general manager Scott Pioli on the parking lot of the team’s practice facility.“This wasn’t forthcoming of his character,” said former college teammate Raibonne Charles, who played defensive line at the University of Maine. “Jovan is a very passionate, very emotional person, and you could tell that by watching him play the game. But this is a shock to us all.”Belcher, 25, beat the odds by making the Chiefs as an undrafted rookie, playing mostly on special teams in 2009. He became a starter at inside linebacker in 2010 and made a career-most 120 tackles in 2011.This season, he started 10 of the first 11 games, recording 37 tackles. In four seasons, he never missed a game and was seldom on the team’s injury report.So when news of the murder-suicide spread across the country Saturday morning, those who knew him the longest were in a state of shock.“I just crumbled inside,” Charles said. “He was such an inspiration to me as a player. He was able to accomplish through his hard work and overcome so much …”Former Maine defensive line coach Dwayne Wilmot, now the defensive line coach at Yale, hinted that Belcher, who earned a degree in three-and-a-half years in child development, overcame some immaturity issues early in his college career.“Everyone has times they wish they had made different decisions, and Jovan had some of those,” Wilmot said, declining to elaborate. “But he matured and grew as a person to be the man everyone knew and loved.”That love, Wilmot said, particularly showed during game days, in which Belcher’s family came to see him play. Belcher’s mother was at his home when the shooting occurred.“He lived for his mom and his family, and vice versa,” Wilmot said. “They were one of the closer groups I’ve ever come across. They warmed your heart. I get emotional thinking about it.”Belcher participated in an anti-domestic initiative, the Male Athletes Against Violence organization, while in college and mentored a local youngster by going on outings with him.All of which makes Saturday’s events all the more baffling. Belcher, who was introverted in the locker room and didn’t call attention to himself, was never a discipline problem on the team or faced any known legal problems while with the Chiefs.“Jovan was a happy, proud father, with pictures of his baby on his Facebook page,” Belcher’s agent, Joe Linta, told Sports Illustrated on Saturday. “This is shocking. Something went crazy wrong, and we’ll probably never know what it is.“He came to my youth clinics in the offseason and worked with kids. He was a gracious, unselfish, hard-working, dedicated kid — very, very caring of some of the underprivileged kids who came to the clinics. I saw him in a real positive way.”Belcher did not take the most direct route to the NFL. He played linebacker, offensive tackle, nose guard and fullback at West Babylon High School on Long Island, N.Y., leading his school to its first undefeated regular season as a senior.But Belcher was better known as an All-American prep wrestler and had Division I scholarship offers in that sport. But he wanted to play football, and Maine was the only school to give him that opportunity.“They called and wanted me to play football for them, so I jumped on the first train up there,” Belcher told The Star in August. “I try to bring the wrestling mentality to everything I do. It’s a certain mentality you build in wrestling that brings you through life.“Wrestling really builds your mental toughness. You learn great balance on the field, but it’s mostly mental toughness, pushing through the hard parts.”Belcher started all 45 games in his four-year career at Maine, and as a senior captain led the Black Bears to the playoffs. Belcher rolled up 17 1/2 sacks in his last two years at Maine and was the runner-up for the 2008 Buck Buchanan Award, which is named for the former Chiefs Hall of Famer and given to the best defensive player at that level.“You don’t normally make it to the NFL from the (Division I-AA) level, but it was how he was on the field,” Charles said. “He seemed like his motor never ran out of gas, no matter what happened, and you can tell that by watching him with the Chiefs. He’s always flying to the ball, he’s always in on tackles, he never stops …”“He always did the right thing. He was one of those guys you told him the right way to do it once, and he did it. He never accepted anything less than the best from himself or the guy next to him. He held himself to a high standard on the field and held everybody else the same.”Charles, who trains athletes and plans to play for an indoor football team in the spring, said he had not been in much contact with Belcher in recent years.“He’s busy,” Charles said. “When you get to that level, all of a sudden you have a thousand more friends.”But even his closest friends and teammates had no inkling there were demons inside Belcher that would cause him to snap.“Jovan was one of those guys who was friendly to everybody,” Chiefs quarterback Brady Quinn said. “It wasn’t like he closed himself off or wasn’t cordial. He was there every day in the stretch line, and he was always talking to the quarterbacks, talking trash to us sometimes, joking with us back and forth.“He was one of the guys who was a leader on the team. He would step up and say something to us or try to motivate us no matter what it was, whether it was what he expected out of the offense or what he expected out of the defense. Even during the short period of time I was on the team, he was one of those guys who was able to reach out and be accessible to guys. He made me feel part of the team right away.”

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/3943358/jovan-belcher-was-a-star-wrestler.html#storylink=rss

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

Your comment is a bit heavy handed, but I agree for the most part. The article is talking about the guy like he just passed away in a car accident or something.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

 

[General Tso]

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Well said. MoP.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

really?

 

[Phenix]

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Well said. MoP.

Yes I am black and white kinda guy, when he murdered a person in cold blood and left his child parentless. To even defend him in any way is quite a shame.I in no way have done anything to say I do not care about KC fans, that is rhetorical if anything.You seem to excuse murder, and that is inexcusable. There is not a grey area, he killed someone then was a coward to take his own life while leaving his own child parentless.Lets discuss what makes a bad person.Disregard for human life [check]Child abandonment [check]Those seem like two things that make a bad person. Where is the grey area?But hey, well said MoP

 

[Phenix]

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

really?

I know, its funny that defending this murderer is where people wanna take a stand on right and wrong? Any good words in defense of this guy shows that you condone what he did.What if you were related to the young woman killed, would you feel the same way Belcher fanatics?

 

[GregR]

My question is going to be how the Chiefs handle this. Will they take a moment of silence for Belcher? Or do they just act like nothing happened? I am torn since I don't think they should do anything for Belcher, but to ignore it is also probably not the right answer. And what a hard post game interview it is going to be for Coach Crennel since you know questions about this will be raised.

The Chiefs are going to hold a moment of silence for all victims of domestic violence.

 

[cobalt_27]

I'm a person who does not kill, thats who I am.You have got to be kidding me with your comment. Who are we? We are not murders, I hope.

Sorry, Im just not one to cast down stones upon anothers mistake. What he did was wrong and I do not condone his horrible acts.

I'm confused. In consecutive statements you say (a) you won't cast stones on mistakes, but (b) you don't condone murder. Murder, by definition is not a mistake. Aside from physically picking up a stone and throwing it at him, what do you mean by this? Or, are you withholding judgment on murder,like, in general? Like it might be a good thing at times? I suspect you haven't thought this through very well.

 

[cobalt_27]

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Um, so...let's review. He murdered a woman. He orphaned a 9 month old. Mental illness, sure. I mean, by definition, there was something very psychologically wrong with Belcher. What would you like to defend here? You seem very invested in protecting him. What's that all about?

 

[Phenix]

My question is going to be how the Chiefs handle this. Will they take a moment of silence for Belcher? Or do they just act like nothing happened? I am torn since I don't think they should do anything for Belcher, but to ignore it is also probably not the right answer. And what a hard post game interview it is going to be for Coach Crennel since you know questions about this will be raised.

The Chiefs are going to hold a moment of silence for all victims of domestic violence.

That is the right thing to do. Many suffer from such a thing and cannot escape it sometimes.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Um, so...let's review. He murdered a woman. He orphaned a 9 month old. Mental illness, sure. I mean, by definition, there was something very psychologically wrong with Belcher. What would you like to defend here? You seem very invested in protecting him. What's that all about?

it's about he's a pro football player and mop didn't know the victims.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Well said. MoP.

Yes I am black and white kinda guy, when he murdered a person in cold blood and left his child parentless. To even defend him in any way is quite a shame.I in no way have done anything to say I do not care about KC fans, that is rhetorical if anything.You seem to excuse murder, and that is inexcusable. There is not a grey area, he killed someone then was a coward to take his own life while leaving his own child parentless.Lets discuss what makes a bad person.Disregard for human life [check]Child abandonment [check]Those seem like two things that make a bad person. Where is the grey area?But hey, well said MoP

Not to mention that he killed the mother of his child in front of her mother, and he called up his coaches so that he could blow his brains out in front of them.Sounds like a pretty stand up guy.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Not to mention that he killed the mother of his child in front of her mother, and he called up his coaches so that he could blow his brains out in front of them.Sounds like a pretty stand up guy.

not to nitpick, or defend the guy, but I think it turns out that it was actually his own mother that witnessed it, and I haven't heard anything about the finale being orchestrated in any way.

 

[cobalt_27]

Not to mention that he killed the mother of his child in front of her mother, and he called up his coaches so that he could blow his brains out in front of them.Sounds like a pretty stand up guy.

not to nitpick, or defend the guy, but I think it turns out that it was actually his own mother that witnessed it, and I haven't heard anything about the finale being orchestrated in any way.

It's true and could have been worse, if calculated. He might have been going after another player, resulting in one more innocent loss of life.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Not to mention that he killed the mother of his child in front of her mother, and he called up his coaches so that he could blow his brains out in front of them.Sounds like a pretty stand up guy.

not to nitpick, or defend the guy, but I think it turns out that it was actually his own mother that witnessed it, and I haven't heard anything about the finale being orchestrated in any way.

It's true and could have been worse, if calculated. He might have been going after another player, resulting in one more innocent loss of life.

I wonder if he had knocked of crennel, or jamaal charles, would people still have the same view on this.

 

[cobalt_27]

Not to mention that he killed the mother of his child in front of her mother, and he called up his coaches so that he could blow his brains out in front of them.Sounds like a pretty stand up guy.

not to nitpick, or defend the guy, but I think it turns out that it was actually his own mother that witnessed it, and I haven't heard anything about the finale being orchestrated in any way.

It's true and could have been worse, if calculated. He might have been going after another player, resulting in one more innocent loss of life.

I wonder if he had knocked of crennel, or jamaal charles, would people still have the same view on this.

Sadly, there are too many people who wish to contextualize violence, so I'm not optimistic it would matter. Actually, what I've seen is a gross displacement by these folks, whose ultimate goal, actually, is to turn the responsibility away from the killers and put it on you and me. You know...society's fault and all.

 

[Judge Smails]

Tom Jackson got it right, for all of the talk of being a great person, teammate, leader, etc - at the end of the day he was a murderer first before he committed suicide, so our thoughts should be with the woman who was murdered and the parentless child. So there was some balance with the pre-game commentary

 

[Sinn Fein]

I don't know anything about Belcher, other than what has been reported in the last few days. But, as with anyone, I choose not to define a guy by a single incident. (for some of the posters here, that is probably a good thing) It is certainly a terrible thing, and as I have mentioned I have empathy for his family, his girlfriends family and the Chief's organization. Los

It is a part of his legacy, and most likely the one thing people who did not know him will remember. But I suspect that those that knew him look at this in a different way - weighing the other things they knew about him. He was a murderer - but he was also other things to other people.

The other aspect I really don't understand is the perspective that "he did not suffer enough." What is the purpose of his suffering?

I wish someone had been there to intervene when he decided to kill his girlfriend - but from what little I have read, it just seems like a situation that got out of control. It makes me sad - not angry.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

It is a part of his legacy, and most likely the one thing people who did not know him will remember. But I suspect that those that knew him look at this in a different way - weighing the other things they knew about him. He was a murderer - but he was also other things to other people.

that's possibly very true, but I'd say the same about that girl's friends and family.I worked with this one guy -- didn't know him very well, but he seemed like a good guy.turns out one day he gets arrested for aggravated child porn.even assuming it was just the stuff on his computer, and not some stray locked in his basement, it's kind of hard to whitewash that behavior just because I happened to know the guy.it's pretty hard to believe that an incident as described in the reports comes out of nowhere.

 

[cobalt_27]

Cobalt, I never really knew just how low you would sink in here. I kinda expect it form Phenix and Kool Aid who like to pour gas on an open fire but you resorting to name calling and the whole staff thing is just sickening in this thread. You have driven people from the SP and you continue to bash FBG openly and still show up here all the time for whatever reason. I clearly stated in my post I was not defending the actions or Belcher but you just went right on ahead with your agenda. I don't think it is productive to read anything you post anymore, therefore you have to go on ignore. It's a shame folks like you just continue to tear this place apart You won't be happy until you are left talking to nobody but yourself. So you win and I will help you on that journey, I put up with a lot of your bashing and enough is enough.

Well, when you decide when murder isn't a black and white, right and wrong issue, I might care. But, your position on this is, frankly, intolerable.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Sure he does he committed a felony, he must answer to the people under the law of this country.Hence the "People vs. ????"So literally and legally and factually he must answer to us.Tough talking a dead man? I tough talking a dead murdering POS.

Actually it did not originate in Italy persay, but in Europe is where it became the "pop culture" way of life after the Black Plague mess. It was the thing to do, believe in god to hope the mess went a way.In no way am I saying is God pop culture, but as the definition of pop culture and the time of the black plague, thats what was popular to believe in and discuss. According to my many resources for a paper I once written.

Yes, I would like to #### on anyones grave who commits a murder and leaves children parentless.To be honest, to support a murderer as it looks like you are, shows your level of value to this earth.

He is still scum and he got off easy, he is not the victim... he is the reason there are victims.People defending him or the outrage against him in anyways shape or forum is only condoning this horrible act.It's quite pathetic that even people who leave this world respecting no one including themselves still get respect from the living. He will not get any respect from me, plant flowers near his grave, I'll help them grow.... thats all I'll do to help out.

It's obvious you are a black and white type person, no grey area with you. Why are you doing this in here when there are other threads where you could be more belligerent?(rhetorical) It's apparent you don't care about the KC fans, you just want to get some punches in on a person who is no longer here and cannot explain or defend himself. Obviously something went terribly wrong, personally I would like to find out more information not to defend him but so that we can move forward and possibly prevent these things from happening again. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly and looking at your posts it may be something you should do some serious research on. Just thought before we all flip you on ignore that you should know you are not much better than the guy you are pissing all over and the SP that you keep pissing in. There was/is a thread dedicated to you in the FFA, you should check it out.

Well said. MoP.

Yes I am black and white kinda guy, when he murdered a person in cold blood and left his child parentless. To even defend him in any way is quite a shame.I in no way have done anything to say I do not care about KC fans, that is rhetorical if anything.You seem to excuse murder, and that is inexcusable. There is not a grey area, he killed someone then was a coward to take his own life while leaving his own child parentless.Lets discuss what makes a bad person.Disregard for human life [check]Child abandonment [check]Those seem like two things that make a bad person. Where is the grey area?But hey, well said MoP

I said I was not defending him. I'm concerned about the next person who has not been murdered yet. If this guy had not killed himself and was caught and in jail, I have no doubt the entire SP, media, everyone would say off with his head and rightly so. You coming out against murder is not insightful. None of us are pro-murder and you seem to want to argue with anyone that you can frame that way. Why would you do that? Everyone is anti-murder, it doesn't make you more right or a better person to keep screaming how anti-murder you are. I never defended Belcher, I just want to hear all the facts of what happened. Is there a connection to possible concussions? Did he come home high/drunk from a concert? Were there any problems at home? Not in the name of clearing Belcher's name but so that moving forward we can help folks before these things happen. I think they call it evolving as a society. You keep the anti-murder mantra but just to let you know I don't know anyone here who is otherwise. Good luck today, let's drop it.

 

[GregR]

Jay Glazer reported that a Browns employee hanged himself at the Browns facility Saturday morning. It was in an equipment shed. The players and coaches had already left for Oakland, so weren't involved in finding the body.

 

[nxmehta]

Jay Glazer reported that a Browns employee hanged himself at the Browns facility Saturday morning. It was in an equipment shed. The players and coaches had already left for Oakland, so weren't involved in finding the body.

What is going on man... :(

 

[Sinn Fein]

It is a part of his legacy, and most likely the one thing people who did not know him will remember. But I suspect that those that knew him look at this in a different way - weighing the other things they knew about him. He was a murderer - but he was also other things to other people.

that's possibly very true, but I'd say the same about that girl's friends and family.I worked with this one guy -- didn't know him very well, but he seemed like a good guy.turns out one day he gets arrested for aggravated child porn.even assuming it was just the stuff on his computer, and not some stray locked in his basement, it's kind of hard to whitewash that behavior just because I happened to know the guy.it's pretty hard to believe that an incident as described in the reports comes out of nowhere.

Like I said - I don't know. There are lots of things that could influence how I think about Belcher - the reality is I probably won't think anything about him in a week or so. I am just open to the possibility that he was a good guy who did a bad thing. It does not change that he did a terrible thing - it just, in my mind, is not a complete picture of who he was. I, personally, don't know enough about him to say one way or another.

 

[Phenix]

Jay Glazer reported that a Browns employee hanged himself at the Browns facility Saturday morning. It was in an equipment shed. The players and coaches had already left for Oakland, so weren't involved in finding the body.

What is going on man... :(

Whats worse, is a man jumped from a parking garage outside my office window on Friday. 7 Stories, all they did was cover the body with a sheet while they had the CSU there, very disturbing to look at for about an hour.

 

[cobalt_27]

It is a part of his legacy, and most likely the one thing people who did not know him will remember. But I suspect that those that knew him look at this in a different way - weighing the other things they knew about him. He was a murderer - but he was also other things to other people.

that's possibly very true, but I'd say the same about that girl's friends and family.I worked with this one guy -- didn't know him very well, but he seemed like a good guy.turns out one day he gets arrested for aggravated child porn.even assuming it was just the stuff on his computer, and not some stray locked in his basement, it's kind of hard to whitewash that behavior just because I happened to know the guy.it's pretty hard to believe that an incident as described in the reports comes out of nowhere.

Like I said - I don't know. There are lots of things that could influence how I think about Belcher - the reality is I probably won't think anything about him in a week or so. I am just open to the possibility that he was a good guy who did a bad thing. It does not change that he did a terrible thing - it just, in my mind, is not a complete picture of who he was. I, personally, don't know enough about him to say one way or another.

What would this change? I don't get what people want to know. Why isn't enough to just say, dear god this was such a nightmare and senseless, done by a man who was very, very sick (at minimum, yesterday morning, but possibly more systemic than that). What's the hesitation in making a judgment about that?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Like I said - I don't know. There are lots of things that could influence how I think about Belcher - the reality is I probably won't think anything about him in a week or so. I am just open to the possibility that he was a good guy who did a bad thing. It does not change that he did a terrible thing - it just, in my mind, is not a complete picture of who he was. I, personally, don't know enough about him to say one way or another.

I think that's the essence of a lot of the discussion in here -- many people feel it most definitely does change things.what you say is only true to a point, and at that point the guy has to be judged by his actions.

if he had punched her, got in a drunken wreck, or whatever, I could probably buy into what you're saying a little more, but what he did is who he is now -- I couldn't really give a #### if he was a funny guy in the locker room, or ran faster than everybody else.

but, I do agree that in a week, or so, this thread will be on page 15.

edit: and if that girl had been one of you family or friends I'm pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Jay Glazer reported that a Browns employee hanged himself at the Browns facility Saturday morning. It was in an equipment shed. The players and coaches had already left for Oakland, so weren't involved in finding the body.

What is going on man... :(

Whats worse, is a man jumped from a parking garage outside my office window on Friday. 7 Stories, all they did was cover the body with a sheet while they had the CSU there, very disturbing to look at for about an hour.

and you were where at the time.....?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I just heard that Jamaal charles wife and the victim were related. Cousins I think.