Shoplifting Poll - Would You Do Anything As The Store Owner? (1 Viewer)

[tonydead]

True.  Still too many potential bad outcomes from confrontation.  Person could have a concealed weapon.  Person could be willing to start a physical confrontation, which likely ends with either store owner getting hurt or store owner getting sued (or both!).  Person could have accomplices nearby.  Person flees, which simply starts the question over again.  What's the best possible outcome?  Person sheepishly admits stealing and returns items?  Seems reasonably unlikely and not nearly worth the potential bad outcomes.

What's the best possible outcome, other than city officials doing their jobs?  160 businesses left downtown Seattle from March 2020 to Feb 2021.  

If I'm a store owner and the community won't protect my business I pick up and leave to someplace that will.  Just like the link someone posted with Walgreens closing a bunch of stores in San Francisco.

 

[Nugget]

What's the best possible outcome, other than city officials doing their jobs?  160 businesses left downtown Seattle from March 2020 to Feb 2021.  

If I'm a store owner and the community won't protect my business I pick up and leave to someplace that will.  Just like the link someone posted with Walgreens closing a bunch of stores in San Francisco.

Are you saying that business left due to crime?  I'd have put a strong emphasis on Covid as the root cause.  

 

[kface]

What's the best possible outcome, other than city officials doing their jobs?  160 businesses left downtown Seattle from March 2020 to Feb 2021.  

If I'm a store owner and the community won't protect my business I pick up and leave to someplace that will.  Just like the link someone posted with Walgreens closing a bunch of stores in San Francisco.

But isn't that the power of the people.  If you pick up and leave and enough businesses do then people have to respond to it and they will the changes necessary

I'm with you that I don't think this is the best way of doing things but sometimes this is the best way to change approaches to certain issues.  

Weirdly I'm with you on this in a lot of ways.  The current things we are doing are not working.  I'm not sure what the answer is but I know it takes something bold as opposed to the same old garbage but humans don't change course easily unfortunately.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I think what we're saying is what's happening now is very different than what's been happening for the last 100 years. The idea of blatantly stealing like this is a relatively new thing. 

And for this poll, I'm asking what if it was your store and you were the store owner?

Still don't say anything and let the non menacing looking person just walk out with the $100 of steaks? 

Or maybe to add, how would you feel about it? 

Maybe one of the reasons things feel  like they have changed is that since your youth security has greatly increased and mom and pop stores have decreased>  Most of the security is passive, but everywhere there are cameras now, products have exploding ink dies, or location tags, or don't work without activation codes, etc.   I get that there are some stories circulating now, but I think between the increase in this type of security, the thirty or so years of "stop and frisk" policing, etc.  that these stories are just from the peculiar circumstances of the pandemic and recent policing political movements and are not some change in our tolerance levels.  I think my earlier questions about sentencing applies here also.  We have deprioritized these nonviolent, non drug related thefts for a long time.  I think society will adjust.  It will get some stuff right.  Get some stuff wrong.  But will adjust to about the same level of tolerance it has always had.

 

[kface]

Are you saying that business left due to crime?  I'd have put a strong emphasis on Covid as the root cause.  

Yes that's an excellent point as well.  Most businesses closed from COVID but that is beside the point in a lot of ways

I know there is a lot of frustration with homelessness and petty crime and that frustration is correct and real from business owners and quite frankly with just regular citizens.

 

[tonydead]

Are you saying that business left due to crime?  I'd have put a strong emphasis on Covid as the root cause.  

Covid causes businesses to go out of business.  Crime causes businesses to relocate.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Are you saying that business left due to crime?  I'd have put a strong emphasis on Covid as the root cause.  

Those are the things that popped into my head when I read tony's post.    It's interesting that so many left, but I would like to know exactly why - crime, politics, covid, etc?  

 

[Nugget]

Those are the things that popped into my head when I read tony's post.    It's interesting that so many left, but I would like to know exactly why - crime, politics, covid, etc?  

I found one company that left and sited crime as the reason - TRInternational relocated to Edmonds.  

As of Nov 2020, 140 business closed in Downtown Seattle

This article hints that the pandemic is the main cause.  

 

[tonydead]

Those are the things that popped into my head when I read tony's post.    It's interesting that so many left, but I would like to know exactly why - crime, politics, covid, etc?  

You can google the articles.  Sure businesses went out of business because of covid, but, the overreaching theme is the crime and homelessness pushing businesses to leave Seattle.  

 

[kface]

Those are the things that popped into my head when I read tony's post.    It's interesting that so many left, but I would like to know exactly why - crime, politics, covid, etc?  

I think there is a third factor as well and that is property value.  Seattle is in the midst of being taken over by China. There is a lot of money flowing in and the cost of living is skyrocketing.  That includes commercial rents.  It's hard to imagine covering costs as a small business as the rents continue to skyrocket.  

 

[kface]

I found one company that left and sited crime as the reason - TRInternational relocated to Edmonds.  

As of Nov 2020, 140 business closed in Downtown Seattle

This article hints that the pandemic is the main cause.  

The analysis also points towards it bouncing back as well..

 

[tonydead]

I found one company that left and sited crime as the reason - TRInternational relocated to Edmonds.  

As of Nov 2020, 140 business closed in Downtown Seattle

This article hints that the pandemic is the main cause.  

"permanently closed"  <> "left/relocated"

Link

 

[tonydead]

Ok.  I'm done.  If you can't distinguish between "closed" and "left" there isn't any point.   

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

https://qz.com/2077384/why-is-walgreens-really-closing-its-stores-in-san-francisco/ 

City officials are skeptical 

Part of the skepticism from San Francisco officials and the public stems from Walgreens’ 2019 SEC filing that shows a plan to close at least 200 stores across the US as part of a cost-cutting initiative. The drugstore chain lost $1.7 billion during Covid-19 lockdowns and will likely experience a slow recovery.
:
Additionally, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Walgreens stores that are closing had only seven reported shoplifting incidents this year, and the five stores set to close had fewer than two reported shoplifting incidents per month on average. Many items in Walgreens—including toothpaste, shampoo, and allergy medications—are stored under lock and key, requiring an employee to unlock the cabinet for the customer. The Chronicle also reported that despite media reports, reported shoplifting incidents are decreasing.

 

[Nugget]

"permanently closed"  <> "left/relocated"

Link

That is literally the one business I cited.  Thanks.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think there is a third factor as well and that is property value.  Seattle is in the midst of being taken over by China. There is a lot of money flowing in and the cost of living is skyrocketing.  That includes commercial rents.  It's hard to imagine covering costs as a small business as the rents continue to skyrocket.  

Good observation.  Thanks. 

 

[quick-hands]

Talked about this here.

If you owned a grocery store and you saw someone that appeared not to be in need and was shoplifting $100 worth of steaks, would you do anything or just let them walk?

Edit to add, for the sake of discussion, assume the shoplifter is unarmed at least for what you can see. 

Needs to be apprehended and turned over to the cops.    Even if he is in need he can't shop lift.

If he asks for help before he shoplifts I have the phone number of local food pantries and emergency food.    I'd call it for him and get him an Uber.   But no stealing. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I think there is a third factor as well and that is property value.  Seattle is in the midst of being taken over by China. There is a lot of money flowing in and the cost of living is skyrocketing.  That includes commercial rents.  It's hard to imagine covering costs as a small business as the rents continue to skyrocket.  

I think this applies to the Walgreens of the world. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

But will adjust to about the same level of tolerance it has always had.

Thanks. It will be interesting. It seems to me society is becoming way more tolerant of the stealing. Fatguyinalittle coat is a good example. We all know he's a good guy. When he says

"I don’t think it’s a good thing for people to steal from stores but this isn’t something that particularly upsets me."

I think that's notable. 

But we'll see where it goes. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

It also may relate some to business owners compared to employees.

I'm guessing the Walgreens employee would care much more about someone who stole $100 out of his locker at work than he would care about the person who stole $100 worth of Tylenol. 

A business owner sees someone stealing from their business differently than an employee would. That's to be expected.

When there are fewer "mom and pop" store owners, there may well be fewer people that care the same way. 

 

[kface]

It also may relate some to business owners compared to employees.

I'm guessing the Walgreens employee would care much more about someone who stole $100 out of his locker at work than he would care about the person who stole $100 worth of Tylenol. 

A business owner sees someone stealing from their business differently than an employee would. That's to be expected.

When there are fewer "mom and pop" store owners, there may well be fewer people that care the same way. 

That's a really good point as well.  Certainly as an employee with no investment in the global company making minimum wage I'm not sure I'm going to care at all honestly.  Now if I'm working for Mr. and Mrs Jones and I know them and their family and they give me a christmas present every year my response is going to be different

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It also may relate some to business owners compared to employees.

I'm guessing the Walgreens employee would care much more about someone who stole $100 out of his locker at work than he would care about the person who stole $100 worth of Tylenol. 

A business owner sees someone stealing from their business differently than an employee would. That's to be expected.

When there are fewer "mom and pop" store owners, there may well be fewer people that care the same way. 

I think this could be a factor for the shoplifter as well, although I don’t have any statistics on which stores have been most victimized by shoplifting and looting.  My suspicion is that the rise of the megastore has been at least in part responsible for any changes in attitudes about shoplifting.

Stealing something from “Mom and Pop” feels a lot different than stealing from Target or WalMart. The victims of a Walmart theft are very diffuse, and many of the victims are wealthy stockholders for whom it is just a passive investment.  “Mom and Pop” are much more sympathetic victims to me.   I’m not planning to steal from either one, but if I were forced to steal from somewhere, there’s no doubt I would steal from the giant corporation over “Mom and Pop.”

 

[parasaurolophus]

Most people steal because they have to. Stealing food or items to sell to pay for food, clothing and shelter is understandable. Wrong, but understandable. 

This is not true at all. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

https://qz.com/2077384/why-is-walgreens-really-closing-its-stores-in-san-francisco/ 

We stopped reporting incidents to police because it was a huge waste of time. 

We just put up barbed wire and hired security.