Should D/ST get points if offense fumbles out of endzone for touchback (1 Viewer)

[Unlucky]

Never thought about this before, but I learned something. If the offense fumbles forward out of the endzone, resulting in a touchback (and thus change of possession) the Defense doesn't get credit for a fumble recovery. This makes sense since they didn't actually recover the fumble. However, there was a change of possession. It seems most sites give points for "fumble recoveries" and so the D wouldn't get fantasy points in this situation. Should they? I kind of think so.

 

[ROCKET]

Unless you reward forcing change of possesions then no. If the defense holds a team on 4th down or forces a punt do you get points for that too?

 

[DropKick]

I think so... run it by your league and IF the scoring system supports it, then why not?

 

[Interseptopus]

No. It's not a recovered fumble.

If an offense fumbles out of bounds going for it on 4th down, should the defense get a fumble recovery?

Again, no.

As pointed out above, it's the same as forcing a punt. Change of possession

 

[Sarnoff]

Agree that it's like stopping them on 4th or forcing a punt. No points.

 

[Not Sleeping]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

 

[Interseptopus]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Here's one: why don't D/STs get credit for recovering an onside kick? Shouldn't that be worth 2 points?

 

[Not Sleeping]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

OK, I take it back. You're right that the defense shouldn't get points in the scenario you described.

I still think forcing a fumble through the end zone is as good as recovering it and should count for points though.

 

[DropKick]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

Your question is irrelevant. We're talking about a ball fumbled into the end zone - NOT a change of possession on downs.

And a fumble can occur on any down. And, usually it is forced - created by some act of the defense. That's what fantasy football is based on - awarding points for an accomplishment. If it happens to go through the end zone and cause a change of possession, is that really different from a recovery?

ETA: The question isn't whether the play is a "recovery". It isn't. It is a touchback. So, the question really is should the defense be awarded points for forcing a fumble that results in a touchback (and gives them the ball)? Yes, why not?

 

[Interseptopus]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

Your question is irrelevant. We're talking about a ball fumbled into the end zone - NOT a change of possession on downs.

And a fumble can occur on any down. And, usually it is forced - created by some act of the defense. That's what fantasy football is based on - awarding points for an accomplishment. If it happens to go through the end zone and cause a change of possession, is that really different from a recovery?

ETA: The question isn't whether the play is a "recovery". It isn't. It is a touchback. So, the question really is should the defense be awarded points for forcing a fumble that results in a touchback (and gives them the ball)? Yes, why not?

It's completely relevant. The guy I was quoting specifically said any forced fumble that results in a change of possession he would be in favor of. I presented a plausible scenario. He recanted and stated he changed his mind on the "all fumbles" statement.

With the OPs stated question:

If a league gives points for a forced fumble, then yes, a forced fumble that results in a touch back should be points.

If a league only gives points for fumble RECOVERY, then no, the ball is not technically recovered by anyone even though it was fumbled out of the end zone and resulted in the offense getting the ball. It is not marked down in he the nfl stat book as a recovered fumble, therefore how can one justify it should count as recovered? And how does one keep track of that stat?

 

[DropKick]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

Your question is irrelevant. We're talking about a ball fumbled into the end zone - NOT a change of possession on downs.

And a fumble can occur on any down. And, usually it is forced - created by some act of the defense. That's what fantasy football is based on - awarding points for an accomplishment. If it happens to go through the end zone and cause a change of possession, is that really different from a recovery?

ETA: The question isn't whether the play is a "recovery". It isn't. It is a touchback. So, the question really is should the defense be awarded points for forcing a fumble that results in a touchback (and gives them the ball)? Yes, why not?

It's completely relevant. The guy I was quoting specifically said any forced fumble that results in a change of possession he would be in favor of. I presented a plausible scenario. He recanted and stated he changed his mind on the "all fumbles" statement.

With the OPs stated question:

If a league gives points for a forced fumble, then yes, a forced fumble that results in a touch back should be points.

If a league only gives points for fumble RECOVERY, then no, the ball is not technically recovered by anyone even though it was fumbled out of the end zone and resulted in the offense getting the ball. It is not marked down in he the nfl stat book as a recovered fumble, therefore how can one justify it should count as recovered? And how does one keep track of that stat?

Actually, the OP's original question was "should the defense get points for a touchback" noting that in wasn't regarded as a recovery. So, the question is "does a touchback merit points" not necessarily "should a touchback be considered the same as a recovery and thus merit points." Subtle but important difference.

And my answer was "run it by your league and IF the scoring system supports it, then why not?"

There are only two kinds of "unrecovered" fumbles that result in change of possession, those through the end zone or out of bounds on 4th down. The fact that you don't typically get points for change of possession on downs really has no bearing on the logic for awarding points on a touchback.

 

[Interseptopus]

Absolutely yes, it should count for points. It's nothing like forcing a punt. Basically, I would say if the defense forced the fumble, they should get the "recovery" points if they end up with possession on the next play.

So if a defense creates a fumble on 4th down and 3, and the fumbles goes out of bounds for 2 yard gain only, which is basically a 2 yard rush and a stop on 4th down... You think the D should get a recovery?Even though, if the rb held onto the ball, and rushed for 2. Yards, possession would have changed anyways?

Your question is irrelevant. We're talking about a ball fumbled into the end zone - NOT a change of possession on downs.

And a fumble can occur on any down. And, usually it is forced - created by some act of the defense. That's what fantasy football is based on - awarding points for an accomplishment. If it happens to go through the end zone and cause a change of possession, is that really different from a recovery?

ETA: The question isn't whether the play is a "recovery". It isn't. It is a touchback. So, the question really is should the defense be awarded points for forcing a fumble that results in a touchback (and gives them the ball)? Yes, why not?

It's completely relevant. The guy I was quoting specifically said any forced fumble that results in a change of possession he would be in favor of. I presented a plausible scenario. He recanted and stated he changed his mind on the "all fumbles" statement.With the OPs stated question:

If a league gives points for a forced fumble, then yes, a forced fumble that results in a touch back should be points.

If a league only gives points for fumble RECOVERY, then no, the ball is not technically recovered by anyone even though it was fumbled out of the end zone and resulted in the offense getting the ball. It is not marked down in he the nfl stat book as a recovered fumble, therefore how can one justify it should count as recovered? And how does one keep track of that stat?

Actually, the OP's original question was "should the defense get points for a touchback" noting that in wasn't regarded as a recovery. So, the question is "does a touchback merit points" not necessarily "should a touchback be considered the same as a recovery and thus merit points." Subtle but important difference.

And my answer was "run it by your league and IF the scoring system supports it, then why not?"

There are only two kinds of "unrecovered" fumbles that result in change of possession, those through the end zone or out of bounds on 4th down. The fact that you don't typically get points for change of possession on downs really has no bearing on the logic for awarding points on a touchback.

Ok. Where in the box score does this stat does it appear? What category does it fall under?Sure, I agree if a league is set up as such so that the stat of "FFOOEZ" (forced fumble out of end zone) is a point or two, then why not.

Some people give QBs points for completions. I think that is stupid so I don't play those leagues. My league has ridiculous points for return yards. If it's not fixed I probably won't be back next year. This stat isn't a real big deal since it rarely happens. So I really don't care if a league has it set up for it or not. I just think it's ridiculous to call it a recovered fumble since it is not recovered by anyone. If that's an argument someone wants to make, let's debate. If not, well then I don't care what a league is set up to reward teams or players for.

I just don't know how one would score for this since I don't believe it appears on the box score sheet.