What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Should I pursue wrongful termiation? (1 Viewer)

The Goat

Footballguy
So.

For the first time in my life - over 25 years of continual emplyment, I was fired last month. I worked in for a large retail company for 6 years; the specific position I was in for about 4. My job wasn't extremely lucrative, but it was good enough, I didn't have to travel to a major city every day, and got to spend a decent amount of time with my wife and two kids.

The company was drastically changing its business model for the position, which would include more late evenings and weekends. The sales goal also increased drastically. I liked my store, my boss, and my co-workers. As the new fiscal year approached, my boss sat down with me and asked if I wanted to stay in the position. We discussed the way the position was changing, the new demands, etc. We agreed I'd think about it for a month, and then I'd let him know.

At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill. You can't just hire a cashier, send them to someone's house, and expect them to close sales. We agreed that the transition time would be about six weeks. Three days later, I was informed that I would no longer be employed in 10 days. This gave me no time to find, interview, and be hired for a new position. Once I was terminated, I'd lose my salary, accumulated vacation time, everything.

I approached HR and was told that PA is an at-will state for employment, and that once I resigned, they could end my employment at any time. There was then a debate about whether I resigned or not. I did not sign a letter, did not ever state that I was resigning my employment with the company, none of that.

On my last day of employment, I sent an e-mail to everyone under the sun stating that I was in no way resigining, and requesting a specific reason for my termination. I stated in the e-mail that if I was being terminated because PA was an at-will state, there was nothing further to discuss.

I received an e-mail back from HR that I was being terminated for poor job performance.

Here's the thing: I hit every performance goal that was expected of me. I was given an annual goal of $330k in sales, and sold $290k in 9.5 months, at a sales margin that was also higher than my goal. I was documented one time in six years for poor job performance; that being thirty days before my termination. (Side note: It's difficult to sell home improvement installations in a cold and snowy December.)

Important factoids:

- The market manager, who oversees 12 locations, has a contentuous history with me.

- I was one of the highest-salaried non-managers in the store.

If I was specifically told in an e-mail that the reason for my termination was a reason other than PA being an at-will employment state, is wrongful termination worth pursuing?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Winning a wrongful termination in an at will state is tough.
Yes. I wouldn't even consider it if I didn't specifically and repeatedly offer them the opportunity to state that was the reason they were terminating me, and they gave me a completely different reason, which I can prove to be inaccurate.

 
Have you tried negotiating with them? Sounds like the break up is inevitable, try to get as much benefits you can out of the deal.

GL

 
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.

 
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.

I can prove that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.
Ypu said the only time you were reprimanded was 30 days ago. What was that about?
 
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.

I can prove that.
"Poor job performance" isn't a legally improper purpose. You're "at will", so they can fire you for that.

Was there a hidden reason that you think they were actually firing you for, such that the "poor job performance" was just a pretext?

 
What t-Bell is asking - are you in a protected class? Female, over 40, gay, non-white, etc.

And can you make an argument that you were fired because you were in that class?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.

I can prove that.
Poor job performance doesn't necessarily mean that you didn't reach sales goals, etc. They could say you were hard to deal with or anything like that. Unfortunately you're not going to win with something like that, especially with it being an At Will State.

 
Remember, "at will" means they can fire you for any reason or for no reason at all, so long as the law doesn't make it illegal (e.g. based upon gender, religious affiliation, disability, sexual preference, etc.) "Poor job performance" can be in the eye of the beholder, so God knows what it really means here. Regardless, it's not even necessary for them to cite that as you were at will.

If you don't have one of those legal grounds that in fact formed the basis for your termination, then you're out of luck. Based upon what you recounted in your original post, it doesn't sound like you do. The company just wants to go in a different direction, and you pretty clearly indicated that you weren't willing to go with them, at least in your current position. You floated the idea of a lateral transfer within the company, but they obviously decided against that.

Other than you losing your job which I know is unpleasant for you and your family, what's the problem here that would give rise to a lawsuit? What exactly did they do wrong?

 
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.

 
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.
I would certainly pay close attention to this issue. If the company terms this a "resignation" for the purposes of unemployment insurance, then I'd definitely go after them. Their email response to you, citing "poor job performance" certainly indicates termination rather than resignation, so that's good for you.

 
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.
Ypu said the only time you were reprimanded was 30 days ago. What was that about?
Poor sales in December.

 
No idea about your termination question, but just wanted to say sorry. Losing your job sucks. Hope in the end it works out for you.

 
Winning a wrongful termination in an at will state is tough.
Yes. I wouldn't even consider it if I didn't specifically and repeatedly offer them the opportunity to state that was the reason they were terminating me, and they gave me a completely different reason, which I can prove to be inaccurate.
At-will means an employer can fire an employee for any reason that isn't otherwise prohibited by law even if it's false.
 
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.
I would certainly pay close attention to this issue. If the company terms this a "resignation" for the purposes of unemployment insurance, then I'd definitely go after them. Their email response to you, citing "poor job performance" certainly indicates termination rather than resignation, so that's good for you.
Oh, unemployment compensation has already been awarded. I won't receive any money for a couple more weeks, probably, but...that hurdle has been cleared.

 
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.
I would certainly pay close attention to this issue. If the company terms this a "resignation" for the purposes of unemployment insurance, then I'd definitely go after them. Their email response to you, citing "poor job performance" certainly indicates termination rather than resignation, so that's good for you.
Oh, unemployment compensation has already been awarded. I won't receive any money for a couple more weeks, probably, but...that hurdle has been cleared.
An employer usually has some time to challenge it.
 
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.
I would certainly pay close attention to this issue. If the company terms this a "resignation" for the purposes of unemployment insurance, then I'd definitely go after them. Their email response to you, citing "poor job performance" certainly indicates termination rather than resignation, so that's good for you.
Oh, unemployment compensation has already been awarded. I won't receive any money for a couple more weeks, probably, but...that hurdle has been cleared.
An employer usually has some time to challenge it.
They can appeal through 3/25. I seriously doubt that they will. PA unemployment laws specifically list "poor job performance" as something that unemployment compensation is awarded for.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Talk to a lawyer...

You certainly have unemployment coming as you did not resign, and can show performance.
I would certainly pay close attention to this issue. If the company terms this a "resignation" for the purposes of unemployment insurance, then I'd definitely go after them. Their email response to you, citing "poor job performance" certainly indicates termination rather than resignation, so that's good for you.
Oh, unemployment compensation has already been awarded. I won't receive any money for a couple more weeks, probably, but...that hurdle has been cleared.
An employer usually has some time to challenge it.
They can appeal through 3/25. I seriously doubt that they will. PA unemployment laws specifically list "poor job performance" as something that unemployment compensation is awarded for.
There's still the issue of whether you resigned or not. So that hurdle hasn't been cleared.
 
What's the legally improper reason that they terminated you? If you can answer that credibly and explain it simply, then maybe you have a case.
They stated that I was being terminated for poor job performance. My job performance is pretty much based exclusively on my sales. I was in position in that location for 9.5 months, and on pace to exceed my sales goals for the year.

I can prove that.
Sorry; but your job performance is based on much more than sales figures. They can say you were a poor cultural fit, didn't respect authority, didn't adhere to policies about tucking your shirt in, etc.

sounds like a tough nut.

 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.

 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
didnt they put in writing he was fired for poor job performance?
 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
didnt they put in writing he was fired for poor job performance?
After he claimed he hadn't resigned. That doesn't preclude them from arguing his resignation takes precedence and their e-mail was merely in response to his request for a reason they weren't keeping him around.
 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
didnt they put in writing he was fired for poor job performance?
After he claimed he hadn't resigned. That doesn't preclude them from arguing his resignation takes precedence and their e-mail was merely in response to his request for a reason they weren't keeping him around.
...

...what?

 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
didnt they put in writing he was fired for poor job performance?
After he claimed he hadn't resigned. That doesn't preclude them from arguing his resignation takes precedence and their e-mail was merely in response to his request for a reason they weren't keeping him around.
...

...what?
Oh, never mind. I see it.

 
I'm no lawyer, but if there's nothing in writing whether an email or a letter of resignation, it seems to me they would have a hard time proving that you resigned. Maybe in that scenario, you can collect some sort of severance, get your accrued vacation days paid for or some other small consideration.
At the end of the month, I sat down with him and suggested that he should look for someone new for my position, and I would look for a lateral position inside the store as well as externally. I specifically did this because my position (external sales) is not easy to fill.
They've got a decent argument he resigned.
My boss and I specifically agreed that I would stay in the position until they found a replacement for me. I alluded to this in the OP, but wasn't this specific previously. My error.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.
Didn't you say a position inside or outside the company? I'm rooting for you, but just want to understand exactly what you said.
 
Thanks for the well-wishes...I've already received an offer letter from another company with the opportunity to start next month, which I'm going to accept. It's just infuriating to try to do the right thing by a long-term employer and get stabbed in the back for it.

Thanks for the feedback.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.
That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't just work for an employer they have a specific job. If I hire you as an accountant and you tell me you don't want to be an accountant anymore I have no obligation to move you over to marketing.

 
Thanks for the well-wishes...I've already received an offer letter from another company with the opportunity to start next month, which I'm going to accept. It's just infuriating to try to do the right thing by a long-term employer and get stabbed in the back for it.

Thanks for the feedback.
I don't see how you were stabbed in the back.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.
Didn't you say a position inside or outside the company? I'm rooting for you, but just want to understand exactly what you said.
Yes. My first choice was inside the company, but the question arose "so what if we FIND someone for your position, but you haven't secured a lateral position yet? We can't keep you on at that point." I answered that to cover my bases, I'd look externally, as well.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.
That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't just work for an employer they have a specific job. If I hire you as an accountant and you tell me you don't want to be an accountant anymore I have no obligation to move you over to marketing.
Not an apples-to-apples comparison. Remember, this is a retail environment.

 
You and your boss discussed how you job was going to change. He asked if you wanted to stay in the position and gave you some time to think about it. A month later you told him he should get someone else to fill your job and that you would look for another job. You agreed on a transition period of six weeks. You resigned your position.

Pretty simple.
Your argument is similar someone saying, "You requested a transfer to a different department, so that means the same as "I quit.""

There was no misunderstanding between my boss and I as to what was occurring. I didn't want to screw over the store and leave a gaping hole in the position while they sought a replacement, so I suggested they find a more suitable candidate for their needs. While this occurred, I would try to find a lateral position within the company.

Regardless, thank you for your opinion.
That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't just work for an employer they have a specific job. If I hire you as an accountant and you tell me you don't want to be an accountant anymore I have no obligation to move you over to marketing.
Not an apples-to-apples comparison. Remember, this is a retail environment.
Apparently, your former employer disagrees.

 
Thanks for the well-wishes...I've already received an offer letter from another company with the opportunity to start next month, which I'm going to accept. It's just infuriating to try to do the right thing by a long-term employer and get stabbed in the back for it.

Thanks for the feedback.
I don't see how you were stabbed in the back.
I went out of my way to make a seamless transition in a sales position that meant a $30k/mo. influx of revenue into the store. I could have (and in retrospect, should have) applied for a different position within the company or just obtained other employment and walked. I didn't. My boss told me he appreciated that, and we agreed to a six-week timeframe. I was terminated less than two weeks later. Are you suggesting I'm being oversensitive?

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top