Maybe a dumb question…backing out of an employment offer after it was accepted? (1 Viewer)

[eoMMan]

I’ll try to keep this brief…

Buddy of mine in Florida (at will employment state) signed a 4 page employment acceptance offer letter for a salaried, non-management finance position. I believe his start date is 9/9. He went on a slew of interviews a few weeks ago and just received a much better offer at a different company. Can he back out of the offer he accepted already? I understand that someone can quit any time and they would probably appreciate that the person hasn’t started yet (time hasn’t been put in for training and what not) but this is obviously a bad look.

Thoughts?

No big deal backing out of this?

 

[Chemical X]

IMO you do what’s best for you and try not to burn any bridges. “Sorry, I had another offer come in that was in the works and I appreciate your time”. In 1 year when the first company wants to dump him or sell or anything, they won’t think twice about the look.

 

[Gatorade]

Bad look, but if he has not started yet I don't see a problem walking away from previous offer. Not sure if there are any legal ramifications to signed letter.

 

[Fat Nick]

Yeah - Agree with @Chemical X . It can be done, and there is a right way to do it. I will say to make sure it doesn't come across as being solely about compensation unless your friend is prepared to stay at that company if they match his offer.

My take is if they can let you go, you can resign at any time. My wife got laid off by a company 8 months after they hired her. They went on a hiring freeze the week after she started, and re-orged her group and let her go. She lost 3 years of incentive comp from her previous company that the new company gave her to join too. It vested over the course of 3 years, but had no immediate vest in the case of a reorganization...but the good news is she got almost 6 months of severance for working 8 months

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I've had people do this before. It's extremely annoying, but what's the alternative, really? This person obviously wasn't going to be retained anyway, so it's just as well that we found that out now.

(Edit: And as others have noted, you can't really blame people for looking out for their interests in the labor market.)

 

[Harry Manback]

At will is at will. There is no indentured servitude here. Yet.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I have seen many accepted offers rescinded by companies due to rapidly changing business conditions. No problem with people backing out also.

 

[gianmarco]

If there's no signed contract, then there's no legal obligation. Has to understand the potential consequences (burning bridges in his industry) by doing so.

 

[zamboni]

IMO you do what’s best for you and try not to burn any bridges. “Sorry, I had another offer come in that was in the works and I appreciate your time”. In 1 year when the first company wants to dump him or sell or anything, they won’t think twice about the look.

Agree 100% here. That said, depending on the company/industry, you may want to be confident that it won’t hurt you in the future if it’s a tight knit community.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If there's no signed contract, then there's no legal obligation. Has to understand the potential consequences (burning bridges in his industry) by doing so.

I've had people walk away from signed contracts. What am I supposed to do about it? Force somebody to work for me when they don't want to? Sue some poor grad student for damages because she changed her mind? Sometimes you just have to accept that you lost a candidate and move on.

My favorite was the guy who resigned at 8:00 am on the first day of the fall semester. It's fine to get mad about it, but we have no realistic recourse.

 

[Matheson]

I've done this. The company that I backed out of the job with wasn't happy with me at all but it's not like they were going to offer me what the other employer was in terms of hours, salary, benefits etc... I get it from both sides but ultimately you have to do what's best for yourself. The employer wouldn't think twice about letting the employee go if that's what they needed to do for their best financial interests.

 

[Grahamburn]

Which company would he prefer to work for? Show the original company subsequent offer and ask them to match.

 

[dgreen]

Bill Belichick weathered the storm of bad looks.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Which company would he prefer to work for? Show the original company subsequent offer and ask them to match.

I am with this opinion here. If he likes both companies equally—I do think he should grant the original company a first right of refusal to match the deal before just going to them and saying he’s accepted something better. I’m not a lawyer—but my belief has always been that proof of damages is required for somebody to get sued—so I can’t imagine the original company pulling some sort of lawsuit against him for backing out. I’d think that they would have to show some sort of damage caused by the backing out—which would be nominal or non existent.

 

[JAA]

I’ll try to keep this brief…

Buddy of mine in Florida (at will employment state) signed a 4 page employment acceptance offer letter for a salaried, non-management finance position. I believe his start date is 9/9. He went on a slew of interviews a few weeks ago and just received a much better offer at a different company. Can he back out of the offer he accepted already? I understand that someone can quit any time and they would probably appreciate that the person hasn’t started yet (time hasn’t been put in for training and what not) but this is obviously a bad look.

Thoughts?

No big deal backing out of this?

Back out, absolutely. However, you have burned that bridge and dont ever go back.

If someone did this to me, I would be annoyed, potentially un-ethical, but when it comes to putting food on your table and bettering your family, do what you have to do.

 

[Chemical X]

Bad look, but if he has not started yet I don't see a problem walking away from previous offer. Not sure if there are any legal ramifications to signed letter.

@bagger liked my post!!!

 

[belljr]

What's worse backing out before you are hired or jumping ship after 1 year?

Eta... I used to be a big stick with it and do everything for the company

Now screw them they don't really give a **** about me.

They care about bottom line only.

Luckily I was never laid off.

That being said I know it's not the same at every company

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This person obviously wasn't going to be retained anyway

And it's probably a win that you don't have to invest in two people in terms of transition, training, etc.

 

[-OZ-]

I’ve done it myself. I just emailed the organization and explained it.

 

[The Z Machine]

Yup. The time to back out is now.

 

[Zow]

Bad look, but if he has not started yet I don't see a problem walking away from previous offer. Not sure if there are any legal ramifications to signed letter.

Agreed. He's definitely burning a bridge here but it's up to him to decide whether the difference in pay is worth the cost of the burnt bridge.

 

[Zow]

What's worse backing out before you are hired or jumping ship after 1 year?

Eta... I used to be a big stick with it and do everything for the company

Now screw them they don't really give a **** about me.

They care about bottom line only.

Luckily I was never laid off.

That being said I know it's not the same at every company

As I'm now an employer who has to take a significant amount of non-billable time and energy training a new hire who isn't going to be profitable for at least one year, I'd much prefer the potential employee back out right away than a year later.

 

[Zow]

If there's no signed contract, then there's no legal obligation. Has to understand the potential consequences (burning bridges in his industry) by doing so.

I've had people walk away from signed contracts. What am I supposed to do about it? Force somebody to work for me when they don't want to? Sue some poor grad student for damages because she changed her mind? Sometimes you just have to accept that you lost a candidate and move on.

My favorite was the guy who resigned at 8:00 am on the first day of the fall semester. It's fine to get mad about it, but we have no realistic recourse.

Whoa WTF?? That isn't cool and hopefully that action followed him around for awhile when trying to find work elsewhere.

 

[Zow]

If there's no signed contract, then there's no legal obligation. Has to understand the potential consequences (burning bridges in his industry) by doing so.

This is way outside the scope of my practice area so I defer to guys like @bigbottom et al on the issue, but I'm not even sure there's a "legal obligation" or, put better, a legal cause of action on behalf of the employer if the guy signed an acceptance letter/contract as the employer doesn't have much damages.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I accepted a job at an investment bank in 2005 and bluntly, after soul searching decided that it was a horrible mistake. Unfortunately, the younger version of me didn’t know how to handle it — so I simply didn’t show up on day 1. Never gave notice at the job I held - just pretended none of it happened.

The new job called me at home that night like “wtf?!?” I lied and told them I had informed HR weeks ago. Definitely burned a bridge - should have done it differently, but zero regrets about the decision.

Fast forward 18 years: the former managing director of that group showed up at my current company to pitch the CEO and me on I-banking work. He said “your name is familiar, but I don’t recall where from.” I didn’t tell him the story but said “well, we almost worked together 18 years ago…….”

Anyway. As everyone else noted, gotta do what is best for you. Companies don’t give a #### about people nowadays.

 

[Osaurus]

Just had a similar situation where I was hiring for an onsite position for someone nearby, but still out of state. They tentatively accepted the position, but never signed our offer. They ghosted us for 2 weeks while leveraging our offer to a couple of other local companies and went elsewhere. As a peer, I don’t blame them one bit. As someone trying to staff a pretty good position, I don’t like my time being wasted.

 

[Mitchie]

Bill Belichick weathered the storm of bad looks.

Josh McDaniels says hold my beer.

 

[bigbottom]

If there's no signed contract, then there's no legal obligation. Has to understand the potential consequences (burning bridges in his industry) by doing so.

This is way outside the scope of my practice area so I defer to guys like @bigbottom et al on the issue, but I'm not even sure there's a "legal obligation" or, put better, a legal cause of action on behalf of the employer if the guy signed an acceptance letter/contract as the employer doesn't have much damages.

It’s been pretty well covered in here. No real legal obligation to be concerned with. Perhaps if there was a signing bonus paid or relocation expenses had been incurred, those could be sought in reimbursement, but you can’t make someone work for you. There are rare instances where liquidated damages provisions in a formal contract can be sought, but that won’t be the case here.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I did it once. Even attended a virtual sales kickoff meeting (before my start date, NDA was signed). But I didn’t really like what I heard in the meeting, and probably more importantly also ended up in a position to buy a house/need a mortgage, so a job switch didn’t make sense (I hadn’t given notice yet as start date was still a couple weeks away). Just emailed and called and they understood. Didn’t feel great about it but it is what it is.

 

[Grahamburn]

What's worse backing out before you are hired or jumping ship after 1 year?

Eta... I used to be a big stick with it and do everything for the company

Now screw them they don't really give a **** about me.

They care about bottom line only.

Luckily I was never laid off.

That being said I know it's not the same at every company

I'm glad you've never been laid off. Typically it's the people with this mentality that are.

If you feel this way why work there? Plenty of companies out there not operating this way.

 

[belljr]

What's worse backing out before you are hired or jumping ship after 1 year?

Eta... I used to be a big stick with it and do everything for the company

Now screw them they don't really give a **** about me.

They care about bottom line only.

Luckily I was never laid off.

That being said I know it's not the same at every company

I'm glad you've never been laid off. Typically it's the people with this mentality that are.

If you feel this way why work there? Plenty of companies out there not operating this way.

I don't work there anymore. I forgot I was laid off once right out of college but our entire division was closing down.

I have that attitude now because I've paid my dues and it's time for someone else too and I don't leave here even though I hate it and have the same feelings because its easy street adn will just be angry for 5-10 years and call it a career

 

[Grahamburn]

What's worse backing out before you are hired or jumping ship after 1 year?

Eta... I used to be a big stick with it and do everything for the company

Now screw them they don't really give a **** about me.

They care about bottom line only.

Luckily I was never laid off.

That being said I know it's not the same at every company

I'm glad you've never been laid off. Typically it's the people with this mentality that are.

If you feel this way why work there? Plenty of companies out there not operating this way.

I don't work there anymore. I forgot I was laid off once right out of college but our entire division was closing down.

I have that attitude now because I've paid my dues and it's time for someone else too and I don't leave here even though I hate it and have the same feelings because its easy street adn will just be angry for 5-10 years and call it a career

It's just such an interesting mentality to me. I've been on both sides of it as an employee and employer. So many people going through their adult careers taking their jobs for granted like they're entitled to it because they've put a couple years in and "doing just enough to not get fired" when they should treat it as a privilege. The ones who do treat it that way likely get promoted or are able to get noticed by other employers and move on. They're the ones who enrich the company and probably bring more to the table in 1-2 years than some do in 20.

The company pays us to just to show up and do some work. Is that really so much to ask? We get benefits and typically a high quality standard of living. We can afford to buy all this stuff we don't need.

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

 

[belljr]

Lol..... I said I was a company man for a long time. ANd my minimal effort is probably better than 50% of the workforce.

By minimal effort I mean - I get all my work done on time and correctly and help with emergency issues.

I no longer work overtime, i will not take a work call on vacation, i will not volunteer for more work. I'm the lead of my group and will not kowtow to managements latest whim. I get my work done in 40 and call it a week.

F'em

eta: been here for 17 years. Old job 13 ymmv

 

[bigbottom]

Yeah, I think one’s perspective may be affected by the type of environment one works in, in terms of whether you view your work as working for a “company” or working with “people.” When I attend to issues after hours or while on vacation, it’s not because I feel an obligation to the “company,” it’s because people I like and respect need me. Whether its members of the department I lead, colleagues with whom I work, or the people to whom I report (including ownership), I feel an obligation to this group of remarkable people and I want them to be successful. The idea of “F ‘em” is so absolutely foreign to me, but perhaps I should chalk that up to having the opportunity to work with great people pretty much across the board.

 

[Judge Smails]

I’ll try to keep this brief…

Buddy of mine in Florida (at will employment state) signed a 4 page employment acceptance offer letter for a salaried, non-management finance position. I believe his start date is 9/9. He went on a slew of interviews a few weeks ago and just received a much better offer at a different company. Can he back out of the offer he accepted already? I understand that someone can quit any time and they would probably appreciate that the person hasn’t started yet (time hasn’t been put in for training and what not) but this is obviously a bad look.

Thoughts?

No big deal backing out of this?

Absolutely take the better offer. Every company knows a new hire is at risk until their first day. It happens. Sure, you don't feel great about it, but you have to do what's best for your family. Just do it with as much grace as possible. They'll be upset - but they'll get over it and move on.

 

[Judge Smails]

Which company would he prefer to work for? Show the original company subsequent offer and ask them to match.

I would react very negatively to this. More than somebody saying they weren't expecting it, but a better offer came my way and I have to accept it for my family. Asking for a match after you already negotiated your package and agreed to come on board is poor form. Worse than leaving as gracefully as possible. They'll question your character. Not an issue if you have left. But an issue if you are an employee.

 

[Grahamburn]

Which company would he prefer to work for? Show the original company subsequent offer and ask them to match.

I would react very negatively to this. More than somebody saying they weren't expecting it, but a better offer came my way and I have to accept it for my family. Asking for a match after you already negotiated your package and agreed to come on board is poor form. Worse than leaving as gracefully as possible. They'll question your character. Not an issue if you have left. But an issue if you are an employee.

Fair. I was approaching it more as "I received another offer I wasn't expecting after I accepted yours. I personally like the structure and direction of your company better and would prefer to work for you. However, the offer received was significantly better than yours. Would you be willing to match it?"

That's why I asked which company he'd prefer to work for. I would likely be perturbed too, but if I liked the candidate enough to extend an offer I would consider matching it within reason.

 

[belljr]

Yeah, I think one’s perspective may be affected by the type of environment one works in, in terms of whether you view your work as working for a “company” or working with “people.” When I attend to issues after hours or while on vacation, it’s not because I feel an obligation to the “company,” it’s because people I like and respect need me. Whether its members of the department I lead, colleagues with whom I work, or the people to whom I report (including ownership), I feel an obligation to this group of remarkable people and I want them to be successful. The idea of “F ‘em” is so absolutely foreign to me, but perhaps I should chalk that up to having the opportunity to work with great people pretty much across the board.

We all hate management so there's that ............

To add. Things were great right up until covid then a bunch of managers left and new people came in that suck

We also don't have a typical structure so that sways things also

ETA 2: My contract states we are not to be on call. The CBA has it in bold letters. But that is one little thing they are trying to keep pressing. Renegotiate or pay me more for doing something outside my listed duties

 

[AAABatteries]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

 

[belljr]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

 

[AAABatteries]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

23 years and counting over here.

 

[Grahamburn]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

23 years and counting over here.

May not be one size fits all.

 

[AAABatteries]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

23 years and counting over here.

May not be one size fits all.

Agree, I’m just saying a blanket statement like “The company isn’t laying off their best performers” isn’t always accurate. Both sides of the employment equation need to understand how this works. When I read @belljr say “F ‘em” I’m hearing the same thing when a company says “we have to let you go” - they have no loyalty, they almost never really HAVE to let you go. They are essentially saying “f you, get out”. As long as we can all be adults and understand this then no problem. Just don’t be surprised when people do the same things to you.

 

[parasaurolophus]

90% of parking lot accidents are from backing out. Try backing in. So i am told.

 

[Van Dyman]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

23 years and counting over here.

May not be one size fits all.

Agree, I’m just saying a blanket statement like “The company isn’t laying off their best performers” isn’t always accurate. Both sides of the employment equation need to understand how this works. When I read @belljr say “F ‘em” I’m hearing the same thing when a company says “we have to let you go” - they have no loyalty, they almost never really HAVE to let you go. They are essentially saying “f you, get out”. As long as we can all be adults and understand this then no problem. Just don’t be surprised when people do the same things to you.

Correct. I've heard from multiple managers that they targeted long-timers for layoffs because of their higher pay. Anecdotal, I know. I'm also not saying that's the norm but it happens.

 

[Grahamburn]

The company isn't laying off their best performers. They're trimming the fat.

This isn’t true everywhere. Maybe what you say is the norm, I really don’t know, but there’s some companies where their focus is hitting their quarterly numbers. Some of these can be great places to work but lack of job security can cause a good deal of anxiety.

Either way, I've been just skinny enough to keep going

23 years and counting over here.

May not be one size fits all.

Agree, I’m just saying a blanket statement like “The company isn’t laying off their best performers” isn’t always accurate. Both sides of the employment equation need to understand how this works. When I read @belljr say “F ‘em” I’m hearing the same thing when a company says “we have to let you go” - they have no loyalty, they almost never really HAVE to let you go. They are essentially saying “f you, get out”. As long as we can all be adults and understand this then no problem. Just don’t be surprised when people do the same things to you.

Correct. I've heard from multiple managers that they targeted long-timers for layoffs because of their higher pay. Anecdotal, I know. I'm also not saying that's the norm but it happens.

Of course. Your value to the company is also in your ability to out produce your pay scale though. "Long timers" in any industry are typically going to be the highest paid. Are they still out working and out producing their cheaper counterparts? Or, are they thinking "ef em," I do my 40 hours and have already put in my X number of years. Don't call me on the evenings or weekends I'm not doing anything extra to earn that higher pay.

Continually show your value and that you aren't indifferent about your job and I doubt you'll be the one getting canned if layoffs come. Just my opinion as an employer. I know who gives a damn and who doesn't.

 

[belljr]

You seem to think I don't produce during the work day. My value is just fine, and despite my attitude I still get performance bonuses. But I'm working per my contract not giving you anything for free. As I said what did picking up the slack for others and working 60 hours a week get me? Nothing but stress and more BS to deal with. Fem

 

[Anarchy99]

Pretty sure Josh McDaniels has some time on his hands at the moment. May want to check in with him for his perspective.

 

[Grahamburn]

You seem to think I don't produce during the work day. My value is just fine, and despite my attitude I still get performance bonuses. But I'm working per my contract not giving you anything for free. As I said what did picking up the slack for others and working 60 hours a week get me? Nothing but stress and more BS to deal with. Fem

Didn't meant to make anything personal honestly. Just using your words as a mentality for many in the workforce in general. If you don't care why would the company care about you? Causality dilemma I guess.

 

[belljr]

You seem to think I don't produce during the work day. My value is just fine, and despite my attitude I still get performance bonuses. But I'm working per my contract not giving you anything for free. As I said what did picking up the slack for others and working 60 hours a week get me? Nothing but stress and more BS to deal with. Fem

Didn't meant to make anything personal honestly. Just using your words as a mentality for many in the workforce in general. If you don't care why would the company care about you? Causality dilemma I guess.

That's my point. No matter how much you care about a company they don't care about you.

*I already said YMMV but at the big companies I worked for that took me a while to open my eyes. THey care about the almighty $$$ and I was part of 4 mergers YES 4@!#@#