Should the rebuilding Chiefs trade Larry Johnson? (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

Here is an interesting article from yahoo on the subject. Sorry if it's a :honda:, because it is dated June 21st. I did a search and didn't find it already posted.

Yahoo Article on LJ

Some suggestions to possible landing spots are, the Eagles, Giants, and Saints.

 

[bostonfred]

lol at LJ to the Saints.

The Chiefs need playmakers. Right now, that team doesn't have many. They have an unimaginative coach who wants to build the team around defense and the running game. You can build a defense fairly quickly in the NFL. Why would they get rid of a young stud runner?

 

[JohnnyU]

lol at LJ to the Saints.

The Chiefs need playmakers. Right now, that team doesn't have many. They have an unimaginative coach who wants to build the team around defense and the running game. You can build a defense fairly quickly in the NFL. Why would they get rid of a young stud runner?

I believe what they are saying is that LJ has been used to death, and couple that with the fact that RBs fade quickly, now is the time to get as much as they can while his value is high. Edwards indicated he wanted to get younger in many areas, so trading LJ would help with that.

 

[Warpig]

According to Herm the Chiefs "ARE NOT REBUILDING"!

However, I don't think they should trade him unless they get an absolute beauty of a trade. He still has 2 - 3 years of tread and if the Chiefs can catch lightning in a bottle in 2 - 3 years and make it to the Super-Bowl it would be worth keeping him and paying him market value.

I mean...it is all about winning championships isn't it? That is the goal right? Oh wait...it's about making money to Carl Peterson.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

A Herschel Walker style trade would be wonderful for the Chiefs. RBs are not high on the list of needed parts for a winning team like CBs, DTs, QBs and o-line.

The Chiefs need pretty much all of the above.

 

[Todem]

A Herschel Walker style trade would be wonderful for the Chiefs. RBs are not high on the list of needed parts for a winning team like CBs, DTs, QBs and o-line.

The Chiefs need pretty much all of the above.

We will never see that lube job of a deal ever again in the NFL for a RB. Ever.

 

[NorrisB]

A Herschel Walker style trade would be wonderful for the Chiefs. RBs are not high on the list of needed parts for a winning team like CBs, DTs, QBs and o-line.The Chiefs need pretty much all of the above.

They have the CBs they're just old, the DTs they drafted Tank Tyler, QB and oline our their biggest needs

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Old CBs aren't generally good for rebuilding teams. Neither are 3rd round DTs...

 

[massraider]

The same reasons why the Chiefs would trade him are the same reasons I think they won't be able to, not for the returns that would make it worthwhile. It's not like another team isn't aware of his workload, or his contract wishes.

 

[Z-Dog]

I just want to appreciate the irony that is Herm Edwards. He left the Jets b/c he didn't want to face what was supposed to be a long rebuilding process. The Jets go to the playoffs, and then traded for Thomas Jones to give them the RB they've been missing. Edwards goes to the Chiefs, makes the playoffs, then sheds his starting QB and is having trouble with his star RB.

That said, LJ isn't going anywhere.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I don't think Johnson's busy year last year should be as large a cause of concern as some people make it out to be. True, it was a monster number of carries, but overall LJ's workload has been pretty decent for a 4-year veteran. In the Cole article, citing Eddie George as a cautionary tale didn't apply accurately because George had carried/caught the ball 1474 times before his 400 carry season, plus another 683 rushes at Ohio State. By comparison, LJ has carried/caught the ball 989 times in the NFL to go with 460 rushes at Penn State. Jamal Anderson blew out his knee the next season - does an ACL injury happen because of a 400 carry season? That could have happened just as easily during his record season. Dickerson continued to have success. James Wilder was close in comparison, having 1001 touches after 4 seasons - I think the problem was he was given another huge workload the next year (365 carries & 53 receptions). He also averaged under 4 yards per carry those two seasons, which suggests he was taking a beating week in and week out. Not many runs where he burst into the secondary untouched, I imagine.

If LJ struggles next season, I think it will be due to the fact that he is playing for a team with an unimaginative coach in Edwards, a rebuilding o-line, a very shaky quarteback spot, and only one receiving threat (Gonzalez), not because he had a 400 carry season. Now if he holds out, for a bit and then returns, he does put himself at risk of greater injury (I think Anderson held out the season he got injured). If I were LJ, I would hold out or ask to be traded because looking at KC's situation, I see Herm giving LJ 350+ carries again this season, which isn't the best approach to take to ensure his long term durability.

 

[Ned]

I don't think Johnson's busy year last year should be as large a cause of concern as some people make it out to be. True, it was a monster number of carries, but overall LJ's workload has been pretty decent for a 4-year veteran. In the Cole article, citing Eddie George as a cautionary tale didn't apply accurately because George had carried/caught the ball 1474 times before his 400 carry season, plus another 683 rushes at Ohio State. By comparison, LJ has carried/caught the ball 989 times in the NFL to go with 460 rushes at Penn State. Jamal Anderson blew out his knee the next season - does an ACL injury happen because of a 400 carry season? That could have happened just as easily during his record season. Dickerson continued to have success. James Wilder was close in comparison, having 1001 touches after 4 seasons - I think the problem was he was given another huge workload the next year (365 carries & 53 receptions). He also averaged under 4 yards per carry those two seasons, which suggests he was taking a beating week in and week out. Not many runs where he burst into the secondary untouched, I imagine.

If LJ struggles next season, I think it will be due to the fact that he is playing for a team with an unimaginative coach in Edwards, a rebuilding o-line, a very shaky quarteback spot, and only one receiving threat (Gonzalez), not because he had a 400 carry season. Now if he holds out, for a bit and then returns, he does put himself at risk of greater injury (I think Anderson held out the season he got injured). If I were LJ, I would hold out or ask to be traded because looking at KC's situation, I see Herm giving LJ 350+ carries again this season, which isn't the best approach to take to ensure his long term durability.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

LJ to the Eagles would NEVER EVER EVER happen.

EVER.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

A Herschel Walker style trade would be wonderful for the Chiefs. RBs are not high on the list of needed parts for a winning team like CBs, DTs, QBs and o-line.

The Chiefs need pretty much all of the above.

We will never see that lube job of a deal ever again in the NFL for a RB. Ever.

Probably not, because the front office and coaching staffs with stud workload RBs are married to not just that particular player, but the concept of that type of player. If they didn't have one, they'd go get one.However, if you put LT or LJ up on the trading block right now, it would only take 1 of 31 other teams to make that type of deal. I bet there's some teams who would overpay for a RB like LT or LJ.

 

[Mimo]

A Herschel Walker style trade would be wonderful for the Chiefs. RBs are not high on the list of needed parts for a winning team like CBs, DTs, QBs and o-line.

The Chiefs need pretty much all of the above.

We will never see that lube job of a deal ever again in the NFL for a RB. Ever.

The TradeMinnesota Vikings got:

RB Herschel Walker

Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54)

San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116)

Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249)

Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68)

Dallas Cowboys got:

LB Jesse Solomon

LB David Howard

CB Isaac Holt

RB Darrin Nelson

DE Alex Stewart

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (21)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47)

Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158)

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38)

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (40)

Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71)

I still can't believe it even when I see it again

 

[Sinrman]

Should they? I say, why not? He's due a huge contract. He has a chip on his shoulder. Not exactly that well-liked. And the Chiefs have a LOT of holes to fill.

Will they? As Herm Edwards said "We're not rebuilding." He doesn't strike me as one that would throw in the towel so early and do so.

But I have to ask -- trade LJ away and you have WHAT on offense? That offense wouldn't scare the granny panties off.... nevermind.

 

[David Yudkin]

Lost in all this is the fact that LJ wants a new contract and allegedly wants a signing bonus in the $20M+ range. If we wanted to hold out in KC all that would happen is that he would hold out in his new destination as well. IMO, that makes trading him next to impossible.

 

[Todem]

Lost in all this is the fact that LJ wants a new contract and allegedly wants a signing bonus in the $20M+ range. If we wanted to hold out in KC all that would happen is that he would hold out in his new destination as well. IMO, that makes trading him next to impossible.

Any trade partner would work out the deal before they get him...but I agree he will not get that.

 

[jesseasi]

I have heard rumors of Dallas being interested...any chance of that? Jones is the perfect owner to make a deal like this happen...

How about LJ to Dallas for Marion Barber and the 1st rounder they got from Cleveland? As a MBIII owner - I would love to see him get out of Dallas and become a starter.

 

[bostonfred]

The Trade

Minnesota Vikings got:

RB Herschel Walker

Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54)

San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116)

Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249)

Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68)

Dallas Cowboys got:

LB Jesse Solomon

LB David Howard

CB Isaac Holt

RB Darrin Nelson

DE Alex Stewart

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (21)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47)

Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158)

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38)

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13)

Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (40)

Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71)

I still can't believe it even when I see it again

Savvy job of getting Dallas's 10th rounder. I can't even imagine how that got worked into the deal. Minny: "It still seems a little lopsided."

Dallas: "OK, I'll throw in our 10th this year, but that's my final offer"

Minny: "Done"

Or was it

Dallas: "I'd do this, but I can't give you our 9th this year. That's too much."

Minny: "OK, fine, we'd take your tenth instead"

Dallas: "Hmmm... deal."

Either way, WTF?

 

[Mustang Man]

I have heard rumors of Dallas being interested...any chance of that? Jones is the perfect owner to make a deal like this happen...How about LJ to Dallas for Marion Barber and the 1st rounder they got from Cleveland? As a MBIII owner - I would love to see him get out of Dallas and become a starter.

Yeah I heard the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning going to work on a local Washington radio station. I did not get who dallas might give up but I am sure it would be Clev #1. I do not think Dallas would give Barber but they might sense Parcells is gone. My first thought was J.Jones.. I have not been able to find any other news on this though.

 

[JohnnyU]

I have heard rumors of Dallas being interested...any chance of that? Jones is the perfect owner to make a deal like this happen...

How about LJ to Dallas for Marion Barber and the 1st rounder they got from Cleveland? As a MBIII owner - I would love to see him get out of Dallas and become a starter.

Yeah I heard the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning going to work on a local Washington radio station. I did not get who dallas might give up but I am sure it would be Clev #1. I do not think Dallas would give Barber but they might sense Parcells is gone. My first thought was J.Jones.. I have not been able to find any other news on this though.

I don't think KC would want Jones.

 

[Tong Po]

LJ to the Eagles would NEVER EVER EVER happen.EVER.

I agree.... and the fact that it's even mentioned in the article is comical. The Eagles do not value the RB position enough to spend the kind of money it would require to sign Larry Johnson.

 

[Bankerguy]

I have heard rumors of Dallas being interested...any chance of that? Jones is the perfect owner to make a deal like this happen...How about LJ to Dallas for Marion Barber and the 1st rounder they got from Cleveland? As a MBIII owner - I would love to see him get out of Dallas and become a starter.

Yeah I heard the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning going to work on a local Washington radio station. I did not get who dallas might give up but I am sure it would be Clev #1. I do not think Dallas would give Barber but they might sense Parcells is gone. My first thought was J.Jones.. I have not been able to find any other news on this though.

ZERO chance Dallas does this.

 

[bjabrad]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season.

Player No Yds Avg TD

Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4

Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14

Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18

Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17

Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

 

[Mustang Man]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season. Player No Yds Avg TD Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

Yeah the #'s are the same pretty much but the play action factor that LJ would produce for Dallas is huge. Not many defenders are to worried about a hand off to MB3 or JJ but put LJ back there and it changes the whole defensive game plan. It would be a major upgrade.

 

[Mustang Man]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season. Player No Yds Avg TD Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

Another point would be LJ did these #'s on his own as KC offense was a mess last season. IN Dallas he would have a bunch more help. He would be huge in that offense. I have seen nothing but it will never happen though so I guess it is a pipe dream.

 

[Bankerguy]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season. Player No Yds Avg TD Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

Another point would be LJ did these #'s on his own as KC offense was a mess last season. IN Dallas he would have a bunch more help. He would be huge in that offense. I have seen nothing but it will never happen though so I guess it is a pipe dream.

Keep in mind that Dallas faces the challenge of re-signing 2 potentially big contracts in the next little bit. Romo if he plays well is going to get extended and "paid". The other is Terrance Newman. He will not be cheap.LJ is going to want a big pay, and I don't see Dallas doing this. It's not that much of an upgrade and the money doesn't make sense. The other factor is the Cleveland draft pick. I am willing to bet Dallas makes a huge run at McFadden next year. Just my $0.02.

 

[Mustang Man]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season. Player No Yds Avg TD Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

Another point would be LJ did these #'s on his own as KC offense was a mess last season. IN Dallas he would have a bunch more help. He would be huge in that offense. I have seen nothing but it will never happen though so I guess it is a pipe dream.

Keep in mind that Dallas faces the challenge of re-signing 2 potentially big contracts in the next little bit. Romo if he plays well is going to get extended and "paid". The other is Terrance Newman. He will not be cheap.LJ is going to want a big pay, and I don't see Dallas doing this. It's not that much of an upgrade and the money doesn't make sense. The other factor is the Cleveland draft pick. I am willing to bet Dallas makes a huge run at McFadden next year. Just my $0.02.

Ok cool all that makes sense. Good points. How is Dallas with the Salary cap?

 

[msommer]

Dal could go after a rookie CB in next years draft - according to Chaos Commish there should be plenty of very good options - or they could look at Paul Oliver in the supplemental draft and let Newman go elsewhere

 

[Family Matters]

I posted this in another thread but it's worth posting here too:

I'm not advacating for or against a trade but here's an interesting take:Would Dallas be willing to make a trade for LJ? I'm sure they would if the price was reasonable. Defining reasonable is the key. KC has been known to under pay for other team's guys and oversell their guys. There inlies the greatest hurddle of all. KC will likely want more than most reasonable teams would be willing to pay for him. Remember the Trent Green episode? So a deal is not out the question in terms of Dallas interest, I'm sure. Why wouldn't they want a great back to go with that offense. Right now that's the biggest question mark they have is their RB's. Didn't they sign TO? Bigtime player with bigtime headaches and off filed issues? The ultimate "me" guy. Of course they did. LJ is very doable as far Jones is concerned. And what coach would say "I don't want LJ"? Of course they would agree to that. That's a career making trade.For those thinking they might have a shot at McFadden or some other college player that might be good, remember that LJ is already proven. In fact he's doing what most guys can't by being a true work horse. He's a unique proven quality that takes the guessing game out of the draft. I'm sure McFadden will be good but to think they would pass on LJ for a chance at someone they might not get just doesn't make good business sense. Dallas wants to win now!But the problem is and will be KC and their high asking price. They're demands will make a reasonable trade nearly impossible. A team would likely have to overpay in order to acquire him. And what team would do that? What team would something so carzy as to overpay for a stud back like LJ? What team would be crazy enough to do that? Maybe a team crazy enough to go after TO? Maybe.

 

[Bankerguy]

Dallas ESPN affilliate 103.3 was talking about the LJ to Dallas rumor this morning (July 5) and if you look at the numbers of Julius Jones combined with Marion Barber III they are virtually identical to the stats put up by LJ in KC last season. Player No Yds Avg TD Julius Jones 267 1084 4.1 4Marion Barber 135 654 4.8 14Dallas Total 402 1738 4.3 18Larry Johnson 416 1789 4.3 17Looks like Dallas did pretty well without LJ but maybe this isn't the whole story. How would LJ do in Dallas? Which team (OL, offensive system and complementary offensive weapons) would LJ have better stats for?

Another point would be LJ did these #'s on his own as KC offense was a mess last season. IN Dallas he would have a bunch more help. He would be huge in that offense. I have seen nothing but it will never happen though so I guess it is a pipe dream.

Keep in mind that Dallas faces the challenge of re-signing 2 potentially big contracts in the next little bit. Romo if he plays well is going to get extended and "paid". The other is Terrance Newman. He will not be cheap.LJ is going to want a big pay, and I don't see Dallas doing this. It's not that much of an upgrade and the money doesn't make sense. The other factor is the Cleveland draft pick. I am willing to bet Dallas makes a huge run at McFadden next year. Just my $0.02.

Ok cool all that makes sense. Good points. How is Dallas with the Salary cap?

Pretty good actually.....and they are not tied to T.O.'s contact either if they wish to part ways. Although, as mentioned they need to look at Romo and Newman. Newman is a priority!! Not a fan of giving up players or picks to get a good but slightly over rated back who is looking to get paid. Dallas has done a decent job with their first round picks lately. Personally, I'd rather see them continue to build this way. Getting the Cleve pick was a coup and probably the best deal Jerry has ever made.I just can't envision the deal that would work for both KC and Dallas.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Dal could go after a rookie CB in next years draft - according to Chaos Commish there should be plenty of very good options - or they could look at Paul Oliver in the supplemental draft and let Newman go elsewhere

It's probably the more prudent move to keep Newman and use the draft pick to get the running back next year. A rookie RB is usually more effective than a rookie cornerback.

 

[JohnnyU]

Larry Johnson-RB- Chiefs Jul. 15 - 10:46 am et

The Kansas City Star's Jason Whitlock sees a trade of Larry Johnson as a "legitimate possibility."

Whitlock doesn't think L.J. and his agent will ask for less than $25 million in bonuses once contract talks get underway. He says the Hunt family has only offered $14-15 million. Green Bay is believed to be interested in Johnson.

Source: Kansas City Star

 

[5Rings]

According to Herm the Chiefs "ARE NOT REBUILDING"!

However, I don't think they should trade him unless they get an absolute beauty of a trade. He still has 2 - 3 years of tread and if the Chiefs can catch lightning in a bottle in 2 - 3 years and make it to the Super-Bowl it would be worth keeping him and paying him market value.

I mean...it is all about winning championships isn't it? That is the goal right? Oh wait...it's about making money to Carl Peterson.

Yeah, Herm, Peterson, and Ashcraft are the only 3 guys I've seen who believe this.