Should There Be A League Trade Deadline (Keeper/Dynasty)? (1 Viewer)

[zamboni]

My long-term home league (10 teams, 20 man rosters, keep 8) is considering the elimination of our trade deadline, which is currently week 14.

The main rationale proposed for elimination is that contending teams want the ability to add guys all the way down the stretch, And with 20 man rosters, the cupboard is often empty in terms of available free agents.

As commissioner, I see the benefit of eliminating the deadline, but also have some concern that teams will have a greater ability to tank at the end by getting rid of anyone of value that they don't plan on keeping.

The main question I have is whether there should even be a league trade deadline (talking mainly keeper/dynasty here), and if so, why? Is it also just to replicate what the NFL does?

I've done some research on Reddit, and there are some good thoughts, but no doubt the Shark Pool will have the best pulse on this issue.

Thanks in advance.

 

[-OZ-]

My leagues have always had one but I’m inclined to agree that they might not be necessary.

IMO the risk of teams tanking at the end of the season is less than the chance for teams in contention to make a deal putting them over the top in the last week or two. That might be okay, but it’s a primary factor in keeping the deadline. It just comes down to whether your league is okay with a team “buying” a championship late, as opposed to earlier in the season.

 

[zamboni]

My leagues have always had one but I’m inclined to agree that they might not be necessary.

IMO the risk of teams tanking at the end of the season is less than the chance for teams in contention to make a deal putting them over the top in the last week or two. That might be okay, but it’s a primary factor in keeping the deadline. It just comes down to whether your league is okay with a team “buying” a championship late, as opposed to earlier in the season.

Good points. We are a total points league (no head-to-head), so a team would be looking for a little extra push at the end as opposed to trying to get over the hump for one or two weeks by just beating out an opponent. This may be different than traditional head-to-head leagues.

 

[Gold Fox]

I'm still new to dynasty, so I've never played in a league with no deadline. That being said, I prefer the trade deadline. I prefer that team's have to plan for a "playoff push". I don't like the thought of buying a championship on the eve of the big game. That probably happens less than I imagine, but it happens.

 

[rockaction]

Oh wow, this is the million dollar question for dynasty/keeper and rules, isn't it? Our league has a blackout period of about three weeks. Right before the playoffs. No trades the Thursday of Week 15 until after Week 17.

I find it works well. I know I would try to buy a championship if I was right on the doorstep, and I'm not sure how cool that is.

 

[zamboni]

I prefer that team's have to plan for a "playoff push".

I kind of feel the same, which is why I'm on the fence about it. I like the fact that with a deadline, you need to position your team prior to the deadline and then fill in on the margin in free agency. There's enough luck in this hobby that anything that brings in more strategy is a good thing IMO.

 

[Mitchie]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

 

[zamboni]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

 

[Mitchie]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

well in re-draft and keeper leagues the discussion is really a non-starter - can't see how a no trade rule would even by possible, assumed the discussion was for dynasty

 

[zamboni]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

well in re-draft and keeper leagues the discussion is really a non-starter - can't see how a no trade rule would even by possible, assumed the discussion was for dynasty

Redraft no, but possible for deep keeper leagues like mine.

 

[Mitchie]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

well in re-draft and keeper leagues the discussion is really a non-starter - can't see how a no trade rule would even by possible, assumed the discussion was for dynasty

Redraft no, but possible for deep keeper leagues like mine.

what do you mean by deep keeper league?

 

[zamboni]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

well in re-draft and keeper leagues the discussion is really a non-starter - can't see how a no trade rule would even by possible, assumed the discussion was for dynasty

Redraft no, but possible for deep keeper leagues like mine.

what do you mean by deep keeper league?

Sorry - large number of keepers (8 in my case). So somewhere between redraft and dynasty.

 

[Mitchie]

i would hate no trade deadline think it's pretty dumb for winner of league to be determined by a trade at the very end of the season. ripe for sly deals between owners that may have strong relationships. don't see any reason for it. build your team for the playoff push. use the waiver wire if encounter an injury and don't have depth.

Agreed - I should re-emphasize that fact that this is relevant for keeper/dynasty as opposed to redraft.

In redraft, if I own Kyren Williams and am out of it, it makes no difference whether I own him or not. In keeper/redraft, I'm not going to trade Kyren unless I get a king's ransom for him. Maybe contending teams won't want to pay such a price.

well in re-draft and keeper leagues the discussion is really a non-starter - can't see how a no trade rule would even by possible, assumed the discussion was for dynasty

Redraft no, but possible for deep keeper leagues like mine.

what do you mean by deep keeper league?

Sorry - large number of keepers (8 in my case). So somewhere between redraft and dynasty.

here's the problem with that, anyone who's not going to kept for next season has no value to the owner so they're just going to fire sale all these players, with 8 keepers, granted it won't by Kyren Williams but will be some decent players. i don't see why these owners should be able to acquire draft picks or other capital for nothing. and then the contending teams are not going to have to give up that much in many cases unless get into a bidding war which then gives the owners who are trading players that have no value to them for even more. And then the winner of the league after everything that went into the draft and managing the team and waiver wire the whole season could come down to which team wants to trade more before the championship game.

 

[Mitchie]

you could cut a couple roster spots that might help a bit w/ expanding the waiver wire

 

[JohnnyU]

I used to think yes, but now think no.

 

[belljr]

Absolutely have a trade deadline. I know it's not the same thing but the NFL has a trade deadline.... Just how I feel. We always did the last week of the regular season I personally wouldn't want to have trades going on in the playoffs

 

[nittanylion]

IMHO, at some point in the Season (prior to the League Playoffs), you have to start dancing with the girl you brought to the party, for better or for worse.

Over 30 years of enjoying this hobby, and I don't think I've ever been in any League that allowed trading, that DID NOT have a trade deadline (usually Week 10/11 of a 13/14 game regular season), and this includes All-Play and/or Total Points Leagues.

For me, it's largely an 'integrity of the League' thing. Someone upthread said something about preparing for the trade deadline as part of managing one's Team for the playoff push/run, and IMHO, that's feel right to me, regarding how a 'FBG's Caliber' (ultra-competitive) League should operate.

I'd go as far as to say in Leagues involving money (which I almost exclusively play in), a trade deadline is mandatory. Eliminating circumstances that could result in bad behavior is a key to reducing/eliminating bad behavior.

At that level of competition, and with money on the line, allowing teams to trade all the way throught begins undermines the value of good drafting and quality in-season management.

Pardon my digression, and I might take some flak for saying this, but I consider it 'bush league' for Teams to be allowed to use the waiver wire during the Playoffs, as well.

I almost always try to couch my posts with an 'IMHO' (see above), but on this particular thing I stand firm.

 

[pinkstapler]

IMHO, at some point in the Season (prior to the League Playoffs), you have to start dancing with the girl you brought to the party, for better or for worse.

Over 30 years of enjoying this hobby, and I don't think I've ever been in any League that allowed trading, that DID NOT have a trade deadline (usually Week 10/11 of a 13/14 game regular season), and this includes All-Play and/or Total Points Leagues.

For me, it's largely an 'integrity of the League' thing. Someone upthread said something about preparing for the trade deadline as part of managing one's Team for the playoff push/run, and IMHO, that's feel right to me, regarding how a 'FBG's Caliber' (ultra-competitive) League should operate.

I'd go as far as to say in Leagues involving money (which I almost exclusively play in), a trade deadline is mandatory. Eliminating circumstances that could result in bad behavior is a key to reducing/eliminating bad behavior.

At that level of competition, and with money on the line, allowing teams to trade all the way throught begins undermines the value of good drafting and quality in-season management.

Pardon my digression, and I might take some flak for saying this, but I consider it 'bush league' for Teams to be allowed to use the waiver wire during the Playoffs, as well.

I almost always try to couch my posts with an 'IMHO' (see above), but on this particular thing I stand firm.

This post hits just about all the points I was planning to lay out as well. I like employing a "no veto" policy on trading, IOW basically every trade goes through unless there is obvious collusion or some other glaring error that was overlooked by one party. This opens the door slightly to "bad" trades, but I think if someone is paying money to run a team, they should get to run it how they choose. We back stop destroying a teams future by having people pay entry fees for future years if they trade those picks away. However, this is also semi backstopped by a trade deadline. Majority of my dynasty leagues allow it until kickoff of the last week prior to the playoffs (either week 13 or 14). Like others have said, once the pressure of the playoffs is on and all the teams are in (and other teams checked out), the tendency to make league breaking trades increases in my experience. Considering 1st place prize can typically pay for multiple years of buy ins, it suddenly opens the door for shady ways of thinking. I try not to say everything in fake football needs to match real football, because it doesn't always make sense. But having a trade deadline to prevent shenanigan's right before heading into the most important time of the season is one that does imo.

 

[GregR]

I agree that one of the issues is that players who won't be kept have essentially no value to the team who is out of it and so it can really throw things off in a way that people can rightfully think harms the integrity of the league, and of the playoffs.

The places we saw the most strife was someone making a trade late season at a bad value in the views of other owners, especially if it might drastically change playoff teams.

One of the ways we tried to deal with it in my salary contract dynasty league then, was that after a certain date, trades could be made, but any owners eliminated from contention had to first let the entire league know that the specific players were available for trade and take offers for a few days before they could agree to any trade. We called it the Fire Sale Rule. So we just created an open marketplace to force those trades to be fair value for what the rest of the league would give. And no owner could claim it wasn't a fair value since he had a chance to offer better before the trade went through.

 

[phandango]

I'm the commissioner of several longtime dynasty leagues, some with trade deadlines, and some with no trade deadlines. I definitely prefer having no trade deadline. The biggest concern is that a terrible team will sell off his/her best players/picks and then ditch the league. (For the record, that has never happened in the leagues I've been in that have no trade deadline.) But, to address that, you simply have a rule that requires teams to pay their next-season dues in order to make trades after a certain date (essentially a "dues deadline" instead of a "trade deadline"). As long as a team commits to paying for the following season, I don't see the issue.

If the rule gets abused in some way, then there should be a method for removing a team for that. But that should be the case if a team is abusing any rule (such as obviously failing to set a lineup every week, purposely dropping good players, etc.).

 

[Gally]

One of the ways we tried to deal with it in my salary contract dynasty league then, was that after a certain date, trades could be made, but any owners eliminated from contention had to first let the entire league know that the specific players were available for trade and take offers for a few days before they could agree to any trade. We called it the Fire Sale Rule. So we just created an open marketplace to force those trades to be fair value for what the rest of the league would give. And no owner could claim it wasn't a fair value since he had a chance to offer better before the trade went through.

Who evaluates what constitutes the "best" value for the trade that is accepted? Most of the time when trades go down in leagues I have been in there have been owners that pipe in that their offer was better than the one accepted. Value is so much in the eye of the beholder on how they view different players, positions, draft picks, etc that it is virtually impossible to have the same conclusion on what was the best offer. I could see this lead to different problems/arguments over time. But of course nothing is perfect.

 

[Gally]

My long time dynasty league never had a trade deadline until this year. I was against having the deadline as down the stretch is the best time for lesser teams to improve by moving high priced (we have a salary/contract structure) players for future picks or better value players due to a desperate owner trying to push over the top. We also don't have playoffs so it is a bit different in that one week isn't the end all be all.

I am still not sure if it better or not and it likely helped me as I ended up finishing strong and winning the league this year and I didn't have to worry about someone swooping in at the end with a big influx of talent or mortgaging my future to keep that from happening. I was in chase mode (didn't get to first place until week 16 - we play all 18 weeks) so maybe I would have been the guy giving up my future to catch the leader.

I am still torn on the best way to go. I think I am still against a deadline but it did put a different feel to the end of the year over previous years with having a deadline. It made week 15 fast and furious as the contenders were trying for that last push. I kind of liked that aspect as it brought the negotiating to a head with everyone pushing out offers all over the place but then it then made the last three weeks odd because there were some teams that were out of it that just stopped paying attention.

Bottom line, I think there are reasons to have one and those reasons may or may not be critical depending on the type of owners you have in your league.

 

[menobrown]

you have to start dancing with the girl you brought to the party, for better or for worse.

Have used this exact analogy in my leagues that wanted to push the trade deadline down farther.

You summed up how I feel with most of your post, though I do like waivers to continue.

I would never join a league with no trade deadline and would make plans to exit any league that did away with it. I'm usually fighting the fight in my private leagues to keep the deadline in check but its' getting a little later then I'd like to see already. Recently had a league vote on pushing the deadline from week 13 to 14 and the vote ended up tied. I wish the deadline was more like week 12.

 

[zamboni]

All great thoughts here - many thanks for the contributions.

We don't vote on rules until July, so there is a lot of time to noodle on this. I'm sure I'll be going back and forth for some time, but the fact of dancing with who brought you there does resonate quite a bit with me.

Just seems too easy to overcome the frustration of CMC sitting down in week 18 by trading (probably for little value) for an RB who is not nearly as good, but for one week can put you over the top. I'd rather have teams try to position themselves with their current roster, but again, I may change my tune on this.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely. And well before the playoffs.

Forces teams to poop or get off the pot. Risk should be part of the equation.

I made 2 deadline deals this year & won my first ‘ship since 2016. Both were instrumental to my playoff run.

I hate the idea of a team making it to the LCG, or the last playoff game before that and somehow making a trade to improve. It’s a dynamic I would not want to play under.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

well. I know I would try to buy a championship if I was right on the doorstep, and I'm not sure how cool that is.

Exactly this. I would hate it if teams had this ability. It’s having their cake and eating it too.

They have the depth to survive injuries for a deep run, then trade that depth for a stud or 2 to essentially buy a ‘ship.

IMO that is how @zamboni’s league would shake out year after year x .

It could really exacerbate the chasm between the haves and have-nots as well. Especially if there are some guppies who make bad deals often.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I would never join a league with no trade deadline and would make plans to exit any league that did away with it. I'm usually fighting the fight in my private leagues to keep the deadline in check but it’s' getting a little later then I'd like to see already. Recently had a league vote on pushing the deadline from week 13 to 14 and the vote ended up tied. I wish the deadline was more like week 12.

Agree with this completely. We voted to move it a week later in one league - I voted against that.

My other league the vote failed, thankfully.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Bottom line, I think there are reasons to have one and those reasons may or may not be critical depending on the type of owners you have in your league.

Context definitely matters. I can see an argument for not having one in your format.

 

[GregR]

One of the ways we tried to deal with it in my salary contract dynasty league then, was that after a certain date, trades could be made, but any owners eliminated from contention had to first let the entire league know that the specific players were available for trade and take offers for a few days before they could agree to any trade. We called it the Fire Sale Rule. So we just created an open marketplace to force those trades to be fair value for what the rest of the league would give. And no owner could claim it wasn't a fair value since he had a chance to offer better before the trade went through.

Who evaluates what constitutes the "best" value for the trade that is accepted? Most of the time when trades go down in leagues I have been in there have been owners that pipe in that their offer was better than the one accepted. Value is so much in the eye of the beholder on how they view different players, positions, draft picks, etc that it is virtually impossible to have the same conclusion on what was the best offer. I could see this lead to different problems/arguments over time. But of course nothing is perfect.

Barring a trade being so bad that it's considered evidence of collusion where the commish or league steps in, it comes down to the owner trading the player on which offer he likes most. Same as any trade. It doesn't change that part.

But what it does do is prevent is people thinking someone got a steal just because the owner didn't bother to shop him around.

 

[Gally]

It could really exacerbate the chasm between the haves and have-nots as well. Especially if there are some guppies who make bad deals often.

In our leagues it actually did the opposite. it allowed the lesser teams to get an influx of future talent for guys they weren't going to be able to utilize. It was the best time of the year for the lesser teams to maximize their returns and helped turn some teams around quickly.

 

[Mitchie]

It could really exacerbate the chasm between the haves and have-nots as well. Especially if there are some guppies who make bad deals often.

In our leagues it actually did the opposite. it allowed the lesser teams to get an influx of future talent for guys they weren't going to be able to utilize. It was the best time of the year for the lesser teams to maximize their returns and helped turn some teams around quickly.

That's what the rookie draft is for,

no trade deadline seems rather dumb on every level, but hey to each their own and if you're happy live and let live. all my leagues trade deadline is between week 8 and 10, would prob drop any league that was much later than that.

ETA these are keeper leagues, for dynasty could see it being a couple weeks later

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It could really exacerbate the chasm between the haves and have-nots as well. Especially if there are some guppies who make bad deals often.

In our leagues it actually did the opposite. it allowed the lesser teams to get an influx of future talent for guys they weren't going to be able to utilize. It was the best time of the year for the lesser teams to maximize their returns and helped turn some teams around quickly.

Yeah, I mentioned your format separately - I really think it’s context specific. In a cap league I get it.

 

[Gally]

That's what the rookie draft is for,

But how do you acquire more draft capital? By trading aging, expensive guys for more draft picks. That is what trading does for you.

no trade deadline seems rather dumb on every level, but hey to each their own and if you're happy live and let live. all my leagues trade deadline is between week 8 and 10, would prob drop any league that was much later than that.

We don't have playoffs and play through week 18. Having a deadline at week 8 or 10 loses half the season. That wouldn't work in our format. We ended up with a deadline after week 15 (you could trade up until the start of the Thursday game of week 16). It was fine. It added a bit of a flury of moves those couple days. It made the end a little less stressful as I wasn't worried about other teams getting someone or having to overpay to get the guy. But I don't think it was necessary.

ETA these are keeper leagues, for dynasty could see it being a couple weeks later

We keep 15 players (45 man rosters) or $250 in salary each year. Players not under contract are subject to escalation if they finish in the top 15 of their position. This is where the teams out of a money spot can acquire assets that help for future. Moving an expensive player that likely couldn't be kept under the cap for cheaper up and coming players or future draft picks. It's a great way to retool your roster if you are a decent owner. Just like in almost everything FF related if you have good owners extra protections (like trade deadlines) aren't necessarily needed.

 

[Mitchie]

That's what the rookie draft is for,

But how do you acquire more draft capital? By trading aging, expensive guys for more draft picks. That is what trading does for you.

that's fine, just trade them at the trade deadline

no trade deadline seems rather dumb on every level, but hey to each their own and if you're happy live and let live. all my leagues trade deadline is between week 8 and 10, would prob drop any league that was much later than that.

We don't have playoffs and play through week 18. Having a deadline at week 8 or 10 loses half the season. That wouldn't work in our format. We ended up with a deadline after week 15 (you could trade up until the start of the Thursday game of week 16). It was fine. It added a bit of a flury of moves those couple days. It made the end a little less stressful as I wasn't worried about other teams getting someone or having to overpay to get the guy. But I don't think it was necessary.

well in your case should be a couple weeks later than if no playoffs

ETA these are keeper leagues, for dynasty could see it being a couple weeks later

We keep 15 players (45 man rosters) or $250 in salary each year. Players not under contract are subject to escalation if they finish in the top 15 of their position. This is where the teams out of a money spot can acquire assets that help for future. Moving an expensive player that likely couldn't be kept under the cap for cheaper up and coming players or future draft picks. It's a great way to retool your roster if you are a decent owner. Just like in almost everything FF related if you have good owners extra protections (like trade deadlines) aren't necessarily needed.

and you're league is really much closer to dynasty with 15 keepers so i'd be ok w/ a couple more weeks, due to the circumstances in your league would be ok with maybe week 14 but i'd be strongly against running it later than that. Again just my personal opinion and not in your league obviously