Single season TD record means nothing to me any more (1 Viewer)

[J-Rock]

I was considering LT's MVP type season and all he's achieved this year. He is in my opinion clearly the best player in the NFL.

However, I really can't get too excited about the single season TD record the way I used to or the way I would if someone broke the single season rushing record.

Most Touchdowns in a Season

30+ LaDainian Tomlinson, 2006

28 Shaun Alexander, Seattle, 2005

27 Priest Holmes, Kansas City, 2003

26 Marshall Faulk, St. Louis, 2000

This record is has been broken 4 times in 6 seasons! Cudos to LT but I really can't get all that excited about a record that changes hands every 1.5 seasons.

Most Yards Gained in a Season

1) 2,105 Eric Dickerson, L.A. Rams, 1984

2) 2,066 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore, 2003

3) 2,053 Barry Sanders, Detroit, 1997

This record has stood for 22 years. It's rerely ever challenged. It is going to mean something when someone breaks this one.

 

[Bourbon Finest]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

 

[Limp Ditka]

Would it help if it were broken 4 times in 7 seasons?

 

[Despyzer]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

 

[Keys Myaths]

Somehow, I don't think LT cares if the record matters to you.

 

[Banger]

Most Yards Gained in a Season

1) 2,105 Eric Dickerson, L.A. Rams, 1984

2) 2,066 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore, 2003

3) 2,053 Barry Sanders, Detroit, 1997

This record has stood for 22 years. It's rerely ever challenged. It is going to mean something when someone breaks this one.

You've quoted the rushing totals, not the most yards gained record. The most yards gained in a season....1 Marshall Faulk rb 1999 1381+1048 = 2429

2 Tiki Barber rb 2005 1860+530 = 2390

3 LaDainian Tomlinson rb 2003 1645+725 = 2370

4 Barry Sanders rb 1997 2053 + 305 = 2358

5 Marcus Allen rb 1985 1759 + 555 = 2314

6 Edgerrin James rb 2000 1709 + 594 = 2303

7 Priest Holmes rb 2002 1615 + 672 = 2287

8 Jamal Lewis rb 2003 2066 + 205 = 2271

9 Ahman Green rb 2003 1883 + 367 = 2250

10 Eric Dickerson rb 1984 2105 + 139 = 2244

I'm not sure why rushing totals are considered "more important" than total yards. A yard is a yard no matter how a player gets it. To me this is the most important stat. The game has changed and only a "one dimensional" back like SA or Jamal are likely to break the rushing record because teams that have rushing/receiving backs are going to try to get yards in other ways than just the ground and there are only so many touches a back can get.....

 

[J-Rock]

Somehow, I don't think LT cares if the record matters to you.

 

[Banger]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?How about if LT scores two more points, he'll break Paul Horunung's records for most points in a season that has existed since 1960. 1960 is further back than 1983 thus its more important, correct?

How about most consecutive multi-TD games (7) set by John Riggins (1983)?

How about 7 consecutive 10-TD seasons to start career Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith?

These are just a few of the other records that he's broken so far....

 

[dparker713]

Everyone else just barely broke the record, LT has the opportunity to put it in another ball park. Geez, he'll probably wind up with more TDs than any of the QBs in the league, or atleast close to it. Thats just... insane.

 

[TME]

Most Yards Gained in a Season

1) 2,105 Eric Dickerson, L.A. Rams, 1984

2) 2,066 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore, 2003

3) 2,053 Barry Sanders, Detroit, 1997

This record has stood for 22 years. It's rerely ever challenged. It is going to mean something when someone breaks this one.

You've quoted the rushing totals, not the most yards gained record. The most yards gained in a season....1 Marshall Faulk rb 1999 1381+1048 = 2429

2 Tiki Barber rb 2005 1860+530 = 2390

3 LaDainian Tomlinson rb 2003 1645+725 = 2370

4 Barry Sanders rb 1997 2053 + 305 = 2358

5 Marcus Allen rb 1985 1759 + 555 = 2314

6 Edgerrin James rb 2000 1709 + 594 = 2303

7 Priest Holmes rb 2002 1615 + 672 = 2287

8 Jamal Lewis rb 2003 2066 + 205 = 2271

9 Ahman Green rb 2003 1883 + 367 = 2250

10 Eric Dickerson rb 1984 2105 + 139 = 2244

I'm not sure why rushing totals are considered "more important" than total yards. A yard is a yard no matter how a player gets it. To me this is the most important stat. The game has changed and only a "one dimensional" back like SA or Jamal are likely to break the rushing record because teams that have rushing/receiving backs are going to try to get yards in other ways than just the ground and there are only so many touches a back can get.....

I like the good old separate rushing and separate receiving yard records rather than total yards because the game has changed over time. Back in the day, RBs were not catching 50 balls a year so commonly as they do today. So, if someone broke the total yardage record, it would be an RB, and I would say, big whoop, the games just different. That's why almost everyone on that list has been in the past decade...new game.But, if the rushing record is broken, well it compares better to history...going way back.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?

I don't believe that is a good argument - one is a record which requires a number of years to break, as opposed to a record which must be broken in a single season. While Ripken's consecutive game streak is impressive, obviously his performance during the year in which he actually broke it was not good enough to warrant an MVP award; the same could be said for Favre. To answer your question, though, yes it is my opinion that the longer a record has gone unbroken, the more impressive it is when it actually is broken.

Edit: I should reiterate that I am not trying to downplay what LT has done and I am not advocating Brees winning MVP instead of LT. I simply think a case can be made for co-MVP, as there was in 2003 with Manning and McNair.

Ni

 

[J-Rock]

Most Yards Gained in a Season

1) 2,105 Eric Dickerson, L.A. Rams, 1984

2) 2,066 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore, 2003

3) 2,053 Barry Sanders, Detroit, 1997

This record has stood for 22 years. It's rerely ever challenged. It is going to mean something when someone breaks this one.

You've quoted the rushing totals, not the most yards gained record. The most yards gained in a season....1 Marshall Faulk rb 1999 1381+1048 = 2429

2 Tiki Barber rb 2005 1860+530 = 2390

3 LaDainian Tomlinson rb 2003 1645+725 = 2370

4 Barry Sanders rb 1997 2053 + 305 = 2358

5 Marcus Allen rb 1985 1759 + 555 = 2314

6 Edgerrin James rb 2000 1709 + 594 = 2303

7 Priest Holmes rb 2002 1615 + 672 = 2287

8 Jamal Lewis rb 2003 2066 + 205 = 2271

9 Ahman Green rb 2003 1883 + 367 = 2250

10 Eric Dickerson rb 1984 2105 + 139 = 2244

I'm not sure why rushing totals are considered "more important" than total yards. A yard is a yard no matter how a player gets it. To me this is the most important stat.

I had referred to the Rushing record earlier in my post. I would agree that yards from scrimage is the more important record. The point I was trying to make is that when a record is broken too frequently it loses it's prestige. Breaking a record which has stood for over 22 years is a major acomplishment. Breaking a record that changes hands every season or 2 is less of an accomplishment.

I'd like to see LT go off for 4+ TDs/ game over the next 3 games to put it out of reach. He is a guy who IMO deserves hold this record for the next 22+ seasons.

 

[Banger]

Most Yards Gained in a Season

1) 2,105 Eric Dickerson, L.A. Rams, 1984

2) 2,066 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore, 2003

3) 2,053 Barry Sanders, Detroit, 1997

This record has stood for 22 years. It's rerely ever challenged. It is going to mean something when someone breaks this one.

You've quoted the rushing totals, not the most yards gained record. The most yards gained in a season....1 Marshall Faulk rb 1999 1381+1048 = 2429

2 Tiki Barber rb 2005 1860+530 = 2390

3 LaDainian Tomlinson rb 2003 1645+725 = 2370

4 Barry Sanders rb 1997 2053 + 305 = 2358

5 Marcus Allen rb 1985 1759 + 555 = 2314

6 Edgerrin James rb 2000 1709 + 594 = 2303

7 Priest Holmes rb 2002 1615 + 672 = 2287

8 Jamal Lewis rb 2003 2066 + 205 = 2271

9 Ahman Green rb 2003 1883 + 367 = 2250

10 Eric Dickerson rb 1984 2105 + 139 = 2244

I'm not sure why rushing totals are considered "more important" than total yards. A yard is a yard no matter how a player gets it. To me this is the most important stat. The game has changed and only a "one dimensional" back like SA or Jamal are likely to break the rushing record because teams that have rushing/receiving backs are going to try to get yards in other ways than just the ground and there are only so many touches a back can get.....

I like the good old separate rushing and separate receiving yard records rather than total yards because the game has changed over time. Back in the day, RBs were not catching 50 balls a year so commonly as they do today. So, if someone broke the total yardage record, it would be an RB, and I would say, big whoop, the games just different. That's why almost everyone on that list has been in the past decade...new game.But, if the rushing record is broken, well it compares better to history...going way back.

That's my point on why it probably won't be broken, the game has changed. If Dickerson did get 50 receptions back in the day he probably would not have run for 2100 yards. It's apples/oranges to a large extent.

 

[Banger]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?

I don't believe that is a good argument - one is a record which requires a number of years to break, as opposed to a record which must be broken in a single season. While Ripken's consecutive game streak is impressive, obviously his performance during the year in which he actually broke it was not good enough to warrant an MVP award; the same could be said for Favre. To answer your question, though, yes it is my opinion that the longer a record has gone unbroken, the more impressive it is when it actually is broken.

Edit: I should reiterate that I am not trying to downplay what LT has done and I am not advocating Brees winning MVP instead of LT. I simply think a case can be made for co-MVP, as there was in 2003 with Manning and McNair.

Ni

I don't know if you saw my edit...How about if LT scores two more points, he'll break Paul Horunung's records for most points in a season that has existed since 1960. 1960 is further back than 1983 thus its more important, correct?

How about most consecutive multi-TD games (7) set by John Riggins (1983)?

How about 7 consecutive 10-TD seasons to start career Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith?

These are just a few of the other records that he's broken so far....

....

He hasn't just broken one record, he's broken multiple records some that have stood as long if not longer than the passing yards record.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?

I don't believe that is a good argument - one is a record which requires a number of years to break, as opposed to a record which must be broken in a single season. While Ripken's consecutive game streak is impressive, obviously his performance during the year in which he actually broke it was not good enough to warrant an MVP award; the same could be said for Favre. To answer your question, though, yes it is my opinion that the longer a record has gone unbroken, the more impressive it is when it actually is broken.

Edit: I should reiterate that I am not trying to downplay what LT has done and I am not advocating Brees winning MVP instead of LT. I simply think a case can be made for co-MVP, as there was in 2003 with Manning and McNair.

Ni

I don't know if you saw my edit...How about if LT scores two more points, he'll break Paul Horunung's records for most points in a season that has existed since 1960. 1960 is further back than 1983 thus its more important, correct?

How about most consecutive multi-TD games (7) set by John Riggins (1983)?

How about 7 consecutive 10-TD seasons to start career Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith?

These are just a few of the other records that he's broken so far....

....

He hasn't just broken one record, he's broken multiple records some that have stood as long if not longer.

Yup, just saw it - LaDanian is certainly a special player and at the risk of waxing poetic I must say that I am very happy to have the opportunity to watch history in the making. In fact, after Curtis Martin (I'm a Jets fan) Tomlinson and Brees are my two favorite players in the NFL. I watched the press conference in which Tomlinson said, "today we made history," and saw how Marty nearly broke down when talking about his star RB's quality as a person; I enjoy watching stuff like this. I also like to see a city like New Orleans rally around and embrace their new stars as they deliver a jewel of a season that they will never forget. Not only are Tomlinson and Brees spectacular players, but they are also good people (based on what I have seen). Tomlinson is definitely a tier above Brees, I will concede that, and if he wins the MVP alone this year then I am not going to rant about it. Whoever gets what award isn't as important to me, really, as watching one of the better NFL seasons in recent memory unfold in front of me...Ni

 

[comfortably numb]

It's obvious the ball in juiced

 

[toxicbees]

I think the increase in TDs is directly related to the number of PI calls. How many times have you seen a PI call bring the ball to the 1 yard line followed by an easy rushing TD.

 

[Banger]

I think the increase in TDs is directly related to the number of PI calls. How many times have you seen a PI call bring the ball to the 1 yard line followed by an easy rushing TD.

In LT's case not so much. He hasn't had 1 one yard plunge due to PI in the end zone. Only 5 of his 26 rushing TD's have been from 1 yard out....Last year SA had 10 1 yard plunges, 3 of which were result of a penalty in the EZ.

 

[valhallan]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

Winning games for the Saints. How many guys have done that?

 

[Despyzer]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

Winning games for the Saints. How many guys have done that?

It's not a record amount. Try again.

 

[valhallan]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

Winning games for the Saints. How many guys have done that?

It's not a record amount. Try again.

You might have missed the point...How long have you been an NFL fan?

 

[jonessed]

One more TD and he breaks the all time scoring record which has stood for over four decades.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

What's impressive is that he broke the record in 13 games. I'm too lazy to check, but I'd like to see the totals of the other top TD scorers after 13 games.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

Winning games for the Saints. How many guys have done that?

It's not a record amount. Try again.

You might have missed the point...How long have you been an NFL fan?

He's probably been a fan long enough to remember the time they went 12-4. Brees has had an awesome year, and only Rivers' great play keeps the Chargers from looking like idiots for letting him go. But Brees getting the MVP award over LT? For what? Because they might be a playoff team? The Bolts have the AFC's best record. Because he's sniffing Marino's yardage record? Tomlinson owns the TD record with three games left. Take Brees off the Saints and it hurts a lot. Take LT off the Chargers and the rest of the AFC will send you thank-you notes. You can make the case that Brees is his team's MVP, maybe the NFC's MVP. But the NFL? Not this year, and I don't think it will be close.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?How about if LT scores two more points, he'll break Paul Horunung's records for most points in a season that has existed since 1960. 1960 is further back than 1983 thus its more important, correct?

How about most consecutive multi-TD games (7) set by John Riggins (1983)?

How about 7 consecutive 10-TD seasons to start career Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith?

These are just a few of the other records that he's broken so far....

Also, you have to look at how LT2 does it. He can run and catch better than any RB in football and also can throw and block very well on top of it. His QB rating is higher than Brees as well The entire MVP discussion is a bunch of junk anyway. MVP or best player??? The silly argument that team "a" could have missed the playoffs without "Jason Taylor" so he is not MVP Not saying JT should be MVP (although he should Defensive MVP) Until it is defined EXACTLY what it means and everyone votes according to that specific criteria, who wins is less important to me than what I know. LT2 is the best player in football and that includes looking at the fact the QB is the most important position in football. Normally, the QB would get the edge if all things are equal to me for the importance factor, but things are clearly not equal this year.

Brees has been excellent (far better than I thought he would be), but if the exact stats are continued for the rest of the year LT2 would be the CLEAR choice for me.

BTW, Jason Taylor

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Not to diminish LT's accomplishment because I think he has become a Top 5 RB of all time.

However, IMHO the single season TD record or totals by RBs are much more a function of "context" than "skill" than most other records.

Whether it was Emmit in his heyday, Priest or LT of 2006 they all have simply availed themselves of the large number or red zone rushing opportunities as a member of one of the league's top offenses.

Many RBs would have knotted 20+ TDs on the Chiefs of 2003/2004 or this year's Chargers. Not so much with all of other accomplishments by LT.

 

[radballs]

Not to diminish LT's accomplishment because I think he has become a Top 5 RB of all time.However, IMHO the single season TD record or totals by RBs are much more a function of "context" than "skill" than most other records.Whether it was Emmit in his heyday, Priest or LT of 2006 they all have simply availed themselves of the large number or red zone rushing opportunities as a member of one of the league's top offenses.Many RBs would have knotted 20+ TDs on the Chiefs of 2003/2004 or this year's Chargers. Not so much with all of other accomplishments by LT.

I think you're overestimating "context" and underestimating "skill" in all three of your examples.

 

[Despyzer]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Exactly.... waitaminute.... what record did Brees break again?

Winning games for the Saints. How many guys have done that?

It's not a record amount. Try again.

You might have missed the point...How long have you been an NFL fan?

Long enough to remember the Saints winning 31 games from '87 to '89. Do you have a point or are you just wasting everyone's time?

 

[norton17]

LT is the unanimous MVP this year.

If he doesn't win it unanimously then they need to change the way the award is voted on or something.

There are guys playing very good for their teams but noone else is smashing records except LT.

 

[tipsy mcstagger]

LT is the unanimous MVP this year.If he doesn't win it unanimously then they need to change the way the award is voted on or something.There are guys playing very good for their teams but noone else is smashing records except LT.

So Brees has no shot at beating Marino's record. Got that. I admit it will be tough, but he could put up 1000 yards on Washington tomorrow.

 

[j3r3m3y]

He is a guy who IMO deserves hold this record for the next 22+ seasons.

How could you possibly know that? What if a more talented, gifted, generous team player comes around in a few years? He deserves to break the record and set the new one. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Zigg]

LT is the unanimous MVP this year.If he doesn't win it unanimously then they need to change the way the award is voted on or something.There are guys playing very good for their teams but noone else is smashing records except LT.

LT is a fine choice for MVP, but to say that if Brees gets a vote something is wrong is just silly. Could very easily throw for 5000 yards, 30 TDs and lead a team left for dead preseason to a 1st round bye. Throw in the fact that his top 3 WRs have missed atleast 3 games each and Brees is every bit as derserving of the MVP as LT.

 

[Marc Levin]

I expressed a similar sentiment here:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=6044128

I wouldn't say that the TD record means 'nothing,' but if Brees breaks Marino's record a case could certainly be made for co-MVP's

As an addendum, in my post I forgot about Faulk breaking the record in 2000 ...

Ni

So the length of time a record is in place increases the importance of a record? So Cal Ripken should have been MVP when he broke the consecutive game streak that lasted for decades?

I don't believe that is a good argument - one is a record which requires a number of years to break, as opposed to a record which must be broken in a single season. While Ripken's consecutive game streak is impressive, obviously his performance during the year in which he actually broke it was not good enough to warrant an MVP award; the same could be said for Favre. To answer your question, though, yes it is my opinion that the longer a record has gone unbroken, the more impressive it is when it actually is broken.

Edit: I should reiterate that I am not trying to downplay what LT has done and I am not advocating Brees winning MVP instead of LT. I simply think a case can be made for co-MVP, as there was in 2003 with Manning and McNair.

Ni

I don't know if you saw my edit...How about if LT scores two more points, he'll break Paul Horunung's records for most points in a season that has existed since 1960. 1960 is further back than 1983 thus its more important, correct?

How about most consecutive multi-TD games (7) set by John Riggins (1983)?

How about 7 consecutive 10-TD seasons to start career Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith?

These are just a few of the other records that he's broken so far....

....

He hasn't just broken one record, he's broken multiple records some that have stood as long if not longer than the passing yards record.

I agree with this guy most of the time.This time is no different.

 

[Marc Levin]

LT is the unanimous MVP this year.If he doesn't win it unanimously then they need to change the way the award is voted on or something.There are guys playing very good for their teams but noone else is smashing records except LT.

LT is a fine choice for MVP, but to say that if Brees gets a vote something is wrong is just silly. Could very easily throw for 5000 yards, 30 TDs and lead a team left for dead preseason to a 1st round bye. Throw in the fact that his top 3 WRs have missed atleast 3 games each and Brees is every bit as derserving of the MVP as LT.

LT will win it nearly unanimously.There will be an isolated vote here or there for Brees or Manning.Brees deserves consideration - and I actually have come around to agreement that he is as much an MVP as LT and more than any other player in the league, but he has no shot at winning the award this year.

 

[dparker713]

LT is the unanimous MVP this year.If he doesn't win it unanimously then they need to change the way the award is voted on or something.There are guys playing very good for their teams but noone else is smashing records except LT.

LT is a fine choice for MVP, but to say that if Brees gets a vote something is wrong is just silly. Could very easily throw for 5000 yards, 30 TDs and lead a team left for dead preseason to a 1st round bye. Throw in the fact that his top 3 WRs have missed atleast 3 games each and Brees is every bit as derserving of the MVP as LT.

At this rate, LT will probably have more TDs then Brees and about 2200 combined yards. Brees *may* just barely break the passing yardage record, LT is going to destroy the TD record. Brees has done an amazing job this year, but LT is just in a whole different league. Don't forget he's got a first year QB and when their best defensive player got suspended, LT stepped up big time. Yes, SD has more talent, but the talent on NO was just a part of the reason their record was so poor. Any normal year, Brees would be the front runner. But LT's season has just been much more remarkable.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I agree thats why Brees should be MVP over LT.. He break the TD record wooohoooo

Too much bourbon tonight?