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Sixth mass extinction 'already underway': Study (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
jonessed
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Parrothead
Footballguy
it was a good run
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
bueno
In a class by himself
Both your posts make some very good points. I'm going to finish reading the thread before I post my thoughts though.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Meh. Remember that big rain forest scare a few years back? We survived that.
bueno
In a class by himself
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
bueno
In a class by himself
Okay. I'm a geologist. I study the past.
:beginrant: First, let me say that there is no doubt that we should be better stewards of the biosphere. We shouldn’t be pumping poisons into our atmosphere and rivers. We shouldn’t be treating non-renewable resources as if they were renewable (not that I want to recycle toothpaste certainly, but ….). We should be recycling that which can be wisely recycled (i.e. if it takes less energy to recycle, do so!) Having said that, we cannot have zero impact on the environment. However, short of turning the entire planet into a nuclear cinder (and even then, benthic communities around volcanic events may survive), nothing we do will end life on Earth.
NOA data tell us that in the Carboniferous Period, when we had about the same amount of land mass as today, the global temperature was the same as today. Guess what? There was three times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere then as now. There are a number of things that change climate. Some are plate tectonics (the position of continental crust relative to the poles), orbital eccentricity, axial obliquity, and axial precession. Considering all of the factors that affect global climate, we can conclude that we are in a natural warming period that should last a long time. The contribution man is making to that warming period can be debated, but one thing is certain: if we went extinct tomorrow, the earth would continue to warm
Over the last 400,000 years the Earth's climate has been unstable, with very significant temperature changes, going from a warm climate to an ice age in as rapidly as a few decades (again, NOA data). In the past, the increase in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the increase in temperature. As the ocean wasn’t (and isn't) saturated with CO2, the likely source is degassing from the soil layers. That is, soil warms up, bacterial activity increases and the result is releasing carbon dioxide into the air. We cycle back and forth every 100,000 years, more or less. So naturally as we come out of an Ice Age 10,000 years ago and the earth warms it will affect the survival of multiple species everywhere.
Around 9,500 years ago the average temperature was higher than it is today. About 500 years prior to that, it was substantially cooler. If we were to travel through time 100,000 years in either direction, we wouldn’t recognize our own planet. It has its cycles, it has its own evolution, affected by both internal and external forces. In the long run, we cannot really change that evolution (short of all-out nuclear war). That doesn’t mean we should continue to pump crap into our waters and atmosphere. What it means is that the changes we may affect may do more long term damage to our civilization than it will to the evolution of the planet. (Though man has survived both warmer and cooler climates than today.)
If you think government and capitalists aren't aware that the earth will continue to warm, you're naive. Governments look at it as a way of gaining more power over our lives, because that is what governments do. Oil capitalists realize it doesn't make a difference. Other capitalists look at warming as an opportunity to sell you goods. But really, warming is going to be an economic challenge. Coastal cities will flood and many will have to be relocated. Rain belts will shift, turning some areas into deserts and bringing more rain to other areas.And there is nothing we can do to stop it. We should instead be investing our money into adjusting to it. :endrant:
Now about the study. Not only is it fraught with assumptions that may or may not be true, it has failed to address an important - and if fact the most important comparison. That being, how do extinction rates today compare not with the past four centuries, but with other mass extinction events? Granted the five big ones can all be related to asteroid impact and consequent eruptions of trap basalt fields antipodal to them (there is a time gap but there is correlation and causation), but other lesser mass extinctions, for which there should be plenty of fossil evidence, do exist, particularly the one at the Middle Miocene Disruption. BTW - the global temperature was about 4 degrees warmer then and at the end of the Disruption, the first hominids appeared. Very poor science, IMO.
:beginrant: First, let me say that there is no doubt that we should be better stewards of the biosphere. We shouldn’t be pumping poisons into our atmosphere and rivers. We shouldn’t be treating non-renewable resources as if they were renewable (not that I want to recycle toothpaste certainly, but ….). We should be recycling that which can be wisely recycled (i.e. if it takes less energy to recycle, do so!) Having said that, we cannot have zero impact on the environment. However, short of turning the entire planet into a nuclear cinder (and even then, benthic communities around volcanic events may survive), nothing we do will end life on Earth.
NOA data tell us that in the Carboniferous Period, when we had about the same amount of land mass as today, the global temperature was the same as today. Guess what? There was three times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere then as now. There are a number of things that change climate. Some are plate tectonics (the position of continental crust relative to the poles), orbital eccentricity, axial obliquity, and axial precession. Considering all of the factors that affect global climate, we can conclude that we are in a natural warming period that should last a long time. The contribution man is making to that warming period can be debated, but one thing is certain: if we went extinct tomorrow, the earth would continue to warm
Over the last 400,000 years the Earth's climate has been unstable, with very significant temperature changes, going from a warm climate to an ice age in as rapidly as a few decades (again, NOA data). In the past, the increase in atmospheric CO2 lagged behind the increase in temperature. As the ocean wasn’t (and isn't) saturated with CO2, the likely source is degassing from the soil layers. That is, soil warms up, bacterial activity increases and the result is releasing carbon dioxide into the air. We cycle back and forth every 100,000 years, more or less. So naturally as we come out of an Ice Age 10,000 years ago and the earth warms it will affect the survival of multiple species everywhere.
Around 9,500 years ago the average temperature was higher than it is today. About 500 years prior to that, it was substantially cooler. If we were to travel through time 100,000 years in either direction, we wouldn’t recognize our own planet. It has its cycles, it has its own evolution, affected by both internal and external forces. In the long run, we cannot really change that evolution (short of all-out nuclear war). That doesn’t mean we should continue to pump crap into our waters and atmosphere. What it means is that the changes we may affect may do more long term damage to our civilization than it will to the evolution of the planet. (Though man has survived both warmer and cooler climates than today.)
If you think government and capitalists aren't aware that the earth will continue to warm, you're naive. Governments look at it as a way of gaining more power over our lives, because that is what governments do. Oil capitalists realize it doesn't make a difference. Other capitalists look at warming as an opportunity to sell you goods. But really, warming is going to be an economic challenge. Coastal cities will flood and many will have to be relocated. Rain belts will shift, turning some areas into deserts and bringing more rain to other areas.And there is nothing we can do to stop it. We should instead be investing our money into adjusting to it. :endrant:
Now about the study. Not only is it fraught with assumptions that may or may not be true, it has failed to address an important - and if fact the most important comparison. That being, how do extinction rates today compare not with the past four centuries, but with other mass extinction events? Granted the five big ones can all be related to asteroid impact and consequent eruptions of trap basalt fields antipodal to them (there is a time gap but there is correlation and causation), but other lesser mass extinctions, for which there should be plenty of fossil evidence, do exist, particularly the one at the Middle Miocene Disruption. BTW - the global temperature was about 4 degrees warmer then and at the end of the Disruption, the first hominids appeared. Very poor science, IMO.
beer 30
Footballguy
Whoa, whoa, whoa...who invited this guy to the topic?
You take your facts and history and just march right on outta here fella, got no room for that kind of nonsense in this thread!
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
ChainsawU
Footballguy
The history of life on earth has been punctuated by mass extinctions, the sudden disappearance of a large variety of plants and animals, possibly as the result of impacts by giant meteors or comets. In one of the most dramatic dieoffs, 65 million years ago, more than half of all species on earth, including the dinosaurs, vanished. While experts debate the cause of these catastrophes and the probability and timing of the next one, scientists at the recent National Forum on BioDiversity warned that another sort of mass extinction is now taking place. The current problem has been brought on not by celestial visitors but, as biologists agreed during the four-day meeting in Washington, by man.
They attribute the developing ecological disaster to the systematic destruction of the world's tropical rain forests, particularly those in Latin America and Southeast Asia. Deforestation at the hands of loggers, farmers, ranchers and mining concerns, says Norman Myers, an environmental consultant based in Oxford, England, may result in the eradication of 1 million species by the end of the century. Harvard Professor of Science Edward O. Wilson concurs. ''The extinctions ongoing worldwide,'' he says, ''promise to be at least as great as the mass extinction that occurred at the end of the age of dinosaurs.''
Murphy, J., & Dorfman, A. (1986). THE QUIET APOCALYPSE Biologists warn that a mass extinction is happening now. Time, 128(15), 80.
They attribute the developing ecological disaster to the systematic destruction of the world's tropical rain forests, particularly those in Latin America and Southeast Asia. Deforestation at the hands of loggers, farmers, ranchers and mining concerns, says Norman Myers, an environmental consultant based in Oxford, England, may result in the eradication of 1 million species by the end of the century. Harvard Professor of Science Edward O. Wilson concurs. ''The extinctions ongoing worldwide,'' he says, ''promise to be at least as great as the mass extinction that occurred at the end of the age of dinosaurs.''
Murphy, J., & Dorfman, A. (1986). THE QUIET APOCALYPSE Biologists warn that a mass extinction is happening now. Time, 128(15), 80.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
this will sound selfish but so be it...i will be long gone when the #### hits the fan ....sooooo 
Statorama
Footballguy
This made me think of another Ark movie I saw in the 70's, and with some research I found that the movie "In Search of Noah's Ark" made $55M at the box office. WTG Sunn Classic Pictures
In Search of Noah's Ark IMDB
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
What the ‘sixth extinction’ will look like in the oceans: The largest species die off first
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/09/14/what-the-sixth-extinction-will-look-like-in-the-oceans-the-largest-species-die-off-first/?tid=pm_business_pop_b&utm_term=.ce0faf028c92
This, from the article, is interesting, and makes sense:
A particular problem, says Payne, is that if you take out all the top predators, then the species they used to prey upon can run amok and explode in population, having large reverberating effects on the entire ecosystem.
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But like others said, the earth will correct itself like it always has if a major problem arises
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/09/14/what-the-sixth-extinction-will-look-like-in-the-oceans-the-largest-species-die-off-first/?tid=pm_business_pop_b&utm_term=.ce0faf028c92
This, from the article, is interesting, and makes sense:
A particular problem, says Payne, is that if you take out all the top predators, then the species they used to prey upon can run amok and explode in population, having large reverberating effects on the entire ecosystem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But like others said, the earth will correct itself like it always has if a major problem arises
PIK95
Footballguy
That's pretty depressing. Its a good thing we will have an environmental champion fighting for us soon. Oh wait....
Parrothead
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Bumblebees now are an endangered species http://www.livescience.com/57469-rusty-patched-bumblebee-declared-endangered.html
James Daulton
Footballguy
Yea, humans pretty much suck.
