So if Reggie Bush is as good as all the (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

why did no one trade up for him? How did a deal not get done?Manning goes No. 1, traded to Giants

The Chargers get New York's third-round pick this year and the Giants' first and fifth-rounders in 2005 in addition to Rivers, whose stock soared after private workouts and interviews.

Falcons deal Dwight, three picks to Chargers for top pick

The San Diego Chargers traded the top pick in the NFL draft to the Atlanta Falcons on Friday after apparently failing to reach a deal with Michael Vick.The Falcons got the opening pick in exchange for the fifth overall pick in the first round, their third-round pick, their second-round pick in 2002 and wide receiver Tim Dwight.

People are already saying in 8-10 years Reggie will be Canton bound. If in fact he is going to "immedietly win games for the Saints", why did no one call Houston to get a deal done.I refuse to believe Houston wouldnt accept a deal almost as good at that SD got for Vick or Eli.

 

[Bojang0301]

An RB isn't as valuable as a QB. Majority of teams have this hole filled or believe it can be plug and play where if it was a QB teams may take the risk and trade up even if they have someone in place. Like Denver.

 

[JAA]

An RB isn't as valuable as a QB. Majority of teams have this hole filled or believe it can be plug and play where if it was a QB teams may take the risk and trade up even if they have someone in place. Like Denver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If thats true, and RBs arent as valuable as a QB, why was Bush taken ahead of VY, Leinart, and Cutler?Also, if a RBs value isnt -that- important, especially one that the talking heads say is going to the hall, why was it a huge goff?

 

[wadegarrett]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

Manning goes No. 1, traded to Giants

The Chargers get New York's third-round pick this year and the Giants' first and fifth-rounders in 2005 in addition to Rivers, whose stock soared after private workouts and interviews.

Falcons deal Dwight, three picks to Chargers for top pick

The San Diego Chargers traded the top pick in the NFL draft to the Atlanta Falcons on Friday after apparently failing to reach a deal with Michael Vick.

The Falcons got the opening pick in exchange for the fifth overall pick in the first round, their third-round pick, their second-round pick in 2002 and wide receiver Tim Dwight.

People are already saying in 8-10 years Reggie will be Canton bound. If in fact he is going to "immedietly win games for the Saints", why did no one call Houston to get a deal done.I refuse to believe Houston wouldnt accept a deal almost as good at that SD got for Vick or Eli.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it hard to believe Houston didn't field one call regarding a trade.

 

[thayman]

Because the price was too high. IIRC during the draft it was discussed on NFL network, how the Saints were fielding trade calls, but the offer would have to blow them out of the water. The standard "Draft Trading Chart" would not apply.

 

[BlueOnion]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe New Orleans thought he was that good too.

 

[Family Matters]

Supply and demand always drive the market. Teams slot money for positions based on what the market is bearing. Why pay QB money for a RB when you can address it with all the other options out there for less money? Some team may do it like N.O. because they have unique marketing issues and Bush is a great fit for them right now.

 

[JAA]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe New Orleans thought he was that good too.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean when Houston had the 1st pick.

 

[P Boy]

Supply and demand always drive the market.

Let's not forget risk/reward also. I think more than a few teams realized that after the past few weeks that there may be a lot more risk drafting Bush than originally thought.

 

[jurb26]

It seems to me that it was made rather obvious that Hou placed an extremely high tag on that pick. Trade offers were certainly made to them, they just valued the pick more than anyone else was willing to offer for it. When Bush slipped to NO, NO's phones were ringing off the hook and the word was that they were offered extreme amounts for Bush. They just valued Bush more and were thus making the pick untradable. Not really sure what your trying to get at here JAA. How does this make Bush look bad?

 

[BlueOnion]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe New Orleans thought he was that good too.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean when Houston had the 1st pick.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would mean Houston would run the risk of not getting their man, Mario Williams.

 

[Keepers]

I assume that Houston never got a call from NO about swtiching picks ... if NO was so high on Bush, can't understand why they wouldn't try.

 

[Doug B]

When Bush slipped to NO, NO's phones were ringing off the hook and the word was that they were offered extreme amounts for Bush.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After the draft, I've read in the New Orleans paper that the Jets "wanted Reggie Bush badly" and made a few pitches for the #2 pick. However, I've also read that the Jets wanted to retain their #29 overall selection in any potential deal for #2 ... so they must not have wanted to move up that badly.

Jurb26 is right -- New Orleans valued Bush more than the trade offers.

 

[Doug B]

I assume that Houston never got a call from NO about swtiching picks ... if NO was so high on Bush, can't understand why they wouldn't try.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People forget that NFL teams, in general, are highly risk averse. Whatever you read in the papers and see on ESPN, the hype machine doesn't play on the minds of NFL executives the way it does on fans. The teams don't believe in the "for sure" thing.

 

[JAA]

It seems to me that it was made rather obvious that Hou placed an extremely high tag on that pick.  Trade offers were certainly made to them, they just valued the pick more than anyone else was willing to offer for it.  When Bush slipped to NO, NO's phones were ringing off the hook and the word was that they were offered extreme amounts for Bush.  They just valued Bush more and were thus making the pick untradable.  Not really sure what your trying to get at here JAA.  How does this make Bush look bad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your telling me Hou turned down deals like the ones made for Manning and Vick?

 

[JAA]

I assume that Houston never got a call from NO about swtiching picks ... if NO was so high on Bush, can't understand why they wouldn't try.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People forget that NFL teams, in general, are highly risk averse. Whatever you read in the papers and see on ESPN, the hype machine doesn't play on the minds of NFL executives the way it does on fans. The teams don't believe in the "for sure" thing.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that fans and talking heads are too quick to put Bush in the Hall before he has played a down? That NFL GMs didnt really have Bush rated all that high, say compared to Vick or Eli?

 

[guderian]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe New Orleans thought he was that good too.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean when Houston had the 1st pick.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Houston wanted Williams and NO was rumored to take him at #2. If Houston trades down below #2, they don't get Williams. NO didn't need the RB and they had more holes to plug, so they weren't going to offer a king's ransom to trade up. Simple enough.

 

[guderian]

I assume that Houston never got a call from NO about swtiching picks ... if NO was so high on Bush, can't understand why they wouldn't try.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO didn't have a 3rd rounder and trading up would have cost just about all of their picks.

 

[guderian]

If you're trying to say that the NFL isn't beholden to the same hype as ESPN, then I don't think you'll find a lot of people willing to argue the other side of that.

 

[Family Matters]

Supply and demand always drive the market.

Let's not forget risk/reward also. I think more than a few teams realized that after the past few weeks that there may be a lot more risk drafting Bush than originally thought.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's true and I really forgot how much that may have played into drafting Bush. The teams know more than we do about what's happening.

 

[JAA]

why did no one trade up for him?  How did a deal not get done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe New Orleans thought he was that good too.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean when Houston had the 1st pick.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Houston wanted Williams and NO was rumored to take him at #2. If Houston trades down below #2, they don't get Williams. NO didn't need the RB and they had more holes to plug, so they weren't going to offer a king's ransom to trade up. Simple enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh, NO was rumored to have everybody taken at #2

 

[WhoDat]

Because the price was too high.  IIRC during the draft it was discussed on NFL network, how the Saints were fielding trade calls, but the offer would have to blow them out of the water.  The standard "Draft Trading Chart" would not apply.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. S. Payton was interviewed on Day Two and made it clear. The only way the Saints would trade out of the #2, which would be forfeiting Bush, was if they had gotten a H. Walker type offer. I think the league's GM saw what took place with that trade, as well as the Saint's own R. Williams debacle, and it was just not going to happen.

Think of it this way. You ever tried to trade Tomlinson or the best player in FF? Ever try to trade for that same player? It is nearly impossible.

Your perceived value of the player versus the actual value is skewed. The inverse holds true of your buyers. Their perceived value versus actual value is completely different. Rarely can you find an equitable deal.

Trade value chart goes out the window on this one, as was suggested. The Saints wanted a massive offer once they had access to Bush in the draft and nobody was willing to pay that price. Look how well each of those trades worked out for the Vikings and Saints.

I wanted to add the issue of signability. Bush made it clear, if taken first, he wanted QB money. RB does not make franchise QB money. Period. Trading up to get Bush at 1 or even 2 means you inherit that headache. Bush made it crystal clear he wanted to be PAID. Couple that with the off field allegations and the Saints trade demands it makes sense that nobody came up to get him.

 

[J R]

I agree with you, JAA. But let's say Bush was a little more hype than substance, and he wasn't the clear #1, but more like what Mort said, that some teams at least had Williams #1. The Texans were in a difficult tradedown spot if they really wanted Williams, because the consensus pick for #2 was Williams, teams don't usually trade intra-division, so the Titans at #3 aren't a good match (especially since they planned to reach for VY anyway). So maybe trading down to 4 or 5 and losing out on Williams wasn't an option.

And what would stop the Saints from offering up something good to swap 1 and 2? Well, they're not exactly a model franchise. It seems strange that they wanted a H.Walker kinda trade for Bush at #2, but didn't offer something to move up to 1. Did they just know what Houston was going to do? Did they value Bush that highly or didn't they?

 

[Traders2001]

Easy ...

Because he is nt as good as most of the guys here think he is .

If he was that good ( I am sure the scouts for NFL teams are not all dumb )

someone would have made a offer that houston could not refuse.

So beware guys he wont even be close to canton when is carreer is over.

He is one of the most overrated RB coming out of college.

 

[thayman]

Easy ...

Because he is nt as good as most of the guys here think he is .

If he was that good ( I am sure the scouts for NFL teams are not all dumb )

someone would have made a offer that houston could not refuse.

So beware guys he wont even be close to canton when is carreer is over.

He is one of the most overrated RB coming out of college.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if a player isn't traded on draft day he isn't any good?? I suppose I can mark Mario Williams down as a bust now.

 

[Traders2001]

Easy ...

Because he is nt as good as most of the guys here think he is .

If he was that good ( I am sure the scouts for NFL teams are not all dumb )

someone would have made a offer that houston could not refuse.

So beware guys he wont even be close to canton when is carreer is over.

He is one of the most overrated RB coming out of college.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if a player isn't traded on draft day he isn't any good?? I suppose I can mark Mario Williams down as a bust now.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not say he was nt good i said he ai nt no HOF bound.He will be like a Warrick Dunn ( will Dunn be HOF ) no way.

Most of you guys think he his the greatest RB coming out of college that is pushing it a lot .

McAlister healthy is as good as Bush no doubt ( probably better ).

 

[Keepers]

And what would stop the Saints from offering up something good to swap 1 and 2? Well, they're not exactly a model franchise. It seems strange that they wanted a H.Walker kinda trade for Bush at #2, but didn't offer something to move up to 1. Did they just know what Houston was going to do? Did they value Bush that highly or didn't they?

IMO, PR had so much to do with NO having to get a king's ransom for the pick. Houston already was getting slammed for passing on Bush but at least they were getting the concensus #2 guy (#1 on some teams boards), imagine what NO would be facing if they traded the pick for anything less than a Hershel or Ricky Williams type deal.

 

[Pskov1420]

I see it as both Houston and New Orleans viewed Bush and Williams as in their own tier at the top of the draft. Houston obviously prefered Williams (although how much of this was due to financials is debatable), so if they moved to #2 couldn't be guarenteed him. NO were happy to sit tight and take which one of the two fell. Houston probably weren't willing to move out of the top 2 and not get one of the top-top tier players, or at least didn't get any offers to make it worth their while.

 

[jurb26]

It seems to me that it was made rather obvious that Hou placed an extremely high tag on that pick.  Trade offers were certainly made to them, they just valued the pick more than anyone else was willing to offer for it.  When Bush slipped to NO, NO's phones were ringing off the hook and the word was that they were offered extreme amounts for Bush.  They just valued Bush more and were thus making the pick untradable.  Not really sure what your trying to get at here JAA.  How does this make Bush look bad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your telling me Hou turned down deals like the ones made for Manning and Vick?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know that as fact to be true but nor can you as fact to be false. Rumor has it that teams were offering NO boatloads to move up to that spot, only after they knew Bush was still there! My guess is that Hou was made some rather nice offers.

 

[DrJ]

I guess Leaf must be better than Peyton Manning, because someone traded up to get him.

 

[GregR_2]

The Texans have said repeatedly that no one made an offer. A coworker told me today of a recent Casserly interview (which I didn't see myself) in which he said Casserly was grilled as to details of what offers they had. If the coworker is correct, Casserly said that they talked to the Jets 4 times and they expressed no interest. Not even a "what are you looking for in a trade." Just "we're not interested".

I don't know if teams felt it wasn't worthwhile, or if they just didn't believe an offer they were willing to make would be realistically considered. But I don't think that the Texans spurned serious offers just to take Mario.