Someday soon, everyone will be a vegetarian (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

Third, animal populations would get out of control - swine, beef and chicken primarily.

What is this beef animal you speak of?

 

[TheIronSheik]

This thread reminds me of that one episode of Better Off Ted.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Obviously wont work unless the taste is the same/better. All indications are that it will be. Cant imagine any other argument against this.

Seems like the same argument against tofu-dogs. The proponents of it will insist that it tastes just as good as a real hotdog, but its not even close.

Our grandkids will think we were savages for eating caged animals and idiots for destroying our bodies and the earth in the process.

Eating meat does not destroy bodies and the earth.

But avoiding it is bad for the brain, which might be your issue.

You guys are all arguing against things that I told you to already assume. Ill say it again. Assume it tastes as good/better than real meat. Assume its healthier for you. Assume its better for the environment. And assume its cheaper. All of these will be true in the next decade. Who will still eat meat?

PS - im not a vegetarian

A) I don't buy your assertion that these will all be met in the next ten years, however, if so, to answer your question:

People who distrust genetically altered food.

When I told Geistlinger that I was skeptical of processed foods, especially ones produced by novel techniques, he pointed out that Beyond Meat uses no artificial ingredients and employs the most time-tested of cooking methods (heat and pressure). “Our process is gentler than making pretzels,” he said. “Getting that browning on a pretzel requires chemically changing the bonds in the molecules. That’s more harsh than what we do.”

 

[Fennis]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

I, for one, welcome our new cow/pig/chicken overlords.

 

[dickey moe]

And then hunters won't have any excuses any more.

Then they can finally hunt the most dangerous game of all.

That fat chick from Girls?

 

[Fat Nick]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

Not if I can help it...the price of REAL Cow/Pig/Chicken would be pennies on the dollar. I also work for a company that makes drugs for animals, so I'd likely be unemployed at this point and forced to eat those "Real ribeye steaks the peasants eat." I'd eat a lot of them.

 

[heckmanm]

In the future, our brains will be downloaded onto computers and our robot bodies won't need to eat at all.

my link

Also, given all of the assumptions - sure, why not? (Did they include texture? Matching flavor but poor texture is a deal-breaker).

 

[Guest]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

Not if I can help it...the price of REAL Cow/Pig/Chicken would be pennies on the dollar. I also work for a company that makes drugs for animals, so I'd likely be unemployed at this point and forced to eat those "Real ribeye steaks the peasants eat." I'd eat a lot of them.

My area of the country would become (even more) sparely populated. Maybe they could start growing what this Beyond Meat stuff is made out of.

 

[Fennis]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

Not if I can help it...the price of REAL Cow/Pig/Chicken would be pennies on the dollar. I also work for a company that makes drugs for animals, so I'd likely be unemployed at this point and forced to eat those "Real ribeye steaks the peasants eat." I'd eat a lot of them.

My area of the country would become (even more) sparely populated. Maybe they could start growing what this Beyond Meat stuff is made out of.

Water, non-GMO pea protein isolate, non-GMO expeller-pressed canola oil, spices, beef flavor (yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavoring, salt, sunflower oil, onion powder), chicory root fiber, rice flour, tomato powder, beef, caramel color, sugar, contains 0.5% or less of: calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, lime juice concentrate, citric acid, onion extract, chili pepper extract, garlic extract, paprika extract.

 

[Jaysus]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

Not if I can help it...the price of REAL Cow/Pig/Chicken would be pennies on the dollar. I also work for a company that makes drugs for animals, so I'd likely be unemployed at this point and forced to eat those "Real ribeye steaks the peasants eat." I'd eat a lot of them.

My area of the country would become (even more) sparely populated. Maybe they could start growing what this Beyond Meat stuff is made out of.

Water, non-GMO pea protein isolate, non-GMO expeller-pressed canola oil, spices, beef flavor (yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavoring, salt, sunflower oil, onion powder), chicory root fiber, rice flour, tomato powder, beef, caramel color, sugar, contains 0.5% or less of: calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, lime juice concentrate, citric acid, onion extract, chili pepper extract, garlic extract, paprika extract.

Wait just a minute here.....

 

[Fennis]

secret ingredient

 

[Jaysus]

secret ingredient

UPDATE: I see what you did there

 

[Fat Nick]

Just think how many cows, pigs, and chickens there would be if we didn't eat them. They would overrun the planet.

Not if I can help it...the price of REAL Cow/Pig/Chicken would be pennies on the dollar. I also work for a company that makes drugs for animals, so I'd likely be unemployed at this point and forced to eat those "Real ribeye steaks the peasants eat." I'd eat a lot of them.

My area of the country would become (even more) sparely populated. Maybe they could start growing what this Beyond Meat stuff is made out of.

Water, non-GMO pea protein isolate, non-GMO expeller-pressed canola oil, spices, beef flavor (yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavoring, salt, sunflower oil, onion powder), chicory root fiber, rice flour, tomato powder, beef, caramel color, sugar, contains 0.5% or less of: calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, lime juice concentrate, citric acid, onion extract, chili pepper extract, garlic extract, paprika extract.

Wait just a minute here.....

Maybe it's not that kind of beef. Maybe it's full of confrontations and grievances.

 

[Brony]

My link

 

[Tick]

I think that our grandkids are going to look at us regarding meat the way we looked at our grandparents over race relations.

 

[Jack White]

Humans have been eating animal meat for 1.5 million years, and some of you guys think that's going to change in the next 40 years?

 

[Tick]

Humans have been eating animal meat for 1.5 million years, and some of you guys think that's going to change in the next 40 years?

Good point - nothing has really changed over the past 40 years.

 

[skol asylum]

Meat is murder. Tasty tasty murder.

 

[EYLive]

Unintended consequences

Bookmarked.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

They can take my bacon when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

Eat enough of it and that won't be long

 

[Jack White]

Humans have been eating animal meat for 1.5 million years, and some of you guys think that's going to change in the next 40 years?

Good point - nothing has really changed over the past 40 years.

Did humans eat meat 40 years ago?

Will they be eating meat 40 years from now?

Yes and yes.

 

[mr roboto]

Wait coal is the author's analogy? Yeah that wasn't exactly a century upon century staple of human existence.

"Humans are one day gonna look at spoken communication like our parents used to look at VHS!"

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Yeah. Don't see this happening. First, I don't think they can make it taste better. Second, GMO's aren't very popular now. I can imagine they'd be far less so in that future world. Third, animal populations would get out of control - swine, beef and chicken primarily.

Just look at India, place is overrun with cows.

 

[NREC34]

I hope it happens. I hate getting any kind of bone or gristle in meats.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

"People eat meat and think they will become as strong as an Ox. Forgetting that the ox eats grass." -Pino Caruso

 

[Northern Voice]

This won't happen but I'm laughing at the idea of the world being overrun with chickens/pigs, etc... I don't think most of the chicken most people eat ever sees daylight, if people weren't eating them, there wouldn't all of a sudden be millions roaming the countryside, they just wouldn't ever be born.

 

[FlapJacks]

plants are living things too....

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

As I pointed out in the 2008 and 2009 threads on this, I think the synthetic meat approach is backwards. In order to raise meat that isn't infected by all kinds of parasitic microorganisms, you're going to need an immune system, and you're therefore going to need a circulatory system and a respiratory system, and you're going to need a bunch of other stuff that's already in chickens. Don't start with bleh meat and then build all the other stuff; start with a chicken and scale back or pare away the non-essential stuff, like the brain, through selective breeding. (We're already doing this, of course. Today's broilers have breasts so big they can't stand up, along with their atrophied brains.)

In other words, what PZ Meyers said.

Who needs a vat when you've got a chicken?
April 16, 2008
by PZ Myers

Revere is thinking about how to grow meat without the animal. It's a cool idea that's been floating around in science fiction for a while now, but, well, of course it has problems, and Revere notes a couple.

The two biggest, as far as I can see from a quick perusal of the burgeoning literature, are finding a suitable nutrient to grow the cells in; and then growing tissue that has the proper texture for being a meat substitute. Animal meat is not just muscle cells but a complicated structure also containing connective tissue, blood and blood vessels, nerves and fat. Just growing up masses of identical cells isn't sufficient. You have to reproduce an architecture.

I see those two problems as aspects of one much bigger problem. Muscle doesn't grow in isolation: it's always in a solid environmental context. It's made up of cells that respond to activity in a way that enhances performance for the organism, and incidentally promotes flavor and texture and bulk for the delectation of the carnivore. So what do you need to make edible muscle mass, beyond a sheet of myocytes in a culture dish (which, I suspect, would have the texture of slime and would not sell well in test markets)?

An architecture is right. You need connective tissue to form a framework and you need a rigid but motile structure to do work and exercise the growing muscle. Then, because you want a piece of muscle larger than a drop, you need a delivery system for nutrients: a circulatory system, with a pump. This muscle in a vat is going to need a skeleton and a heart.

When I teach physiology, one of the organs I emphasize is the liver. It's amazing how important a liver is to just about everything: growth, digestion, physical performance, reproduction, the whole shebang. Our cultured muscle will need a liver equivalent to support it. Even if we get rid of the digestive system entirely and feed this muscle mass on delivered supplies of pure glucose, amino acids, and various cofactors and enzymes, the liver is a primary regulatory agent for those substances.

Then we need an immune system. A huge lump of cells growing in a bath of sugar and amino acids is bacterial heaven — it's going to need major antibacterial/antiviral support.

The more I think about it, the more I think people are going at it backwards. We shouldn't be thinking about building muscle from the cells up, to create a purified system to produce meat for the market, we should be going the other way, starting with self-sustaining meat producers and genetically paring away the less commercially viable bits, like the brain. Instead of test-tube meat, we should be working on more efficient organisms that generate muscle tissue with the properties we want.

Guess what? Farmers have already been doing this! Look at the domestic cow and chicken and turkey: they're far more brainless than their wild relatives, and have been reduced to as much stupidity and helplessness as possible, without compromising their ability to survive semi-autonomously and harvest nutrients from naturally occurring food sources. I don't see all that much difference in the consequences between building up a functional meat producer from cells in a dish, and stripping down a functional meat producer from a line of domesticated animals. Both starting points are aiming at the same final result; I suspect that the top down procedure is more likely to achieve success in my lifetime.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

As I pointed out in the 2008 and 2009 threads on this, I think the synthetic meat approach is backwards. In order to raise meat that isn't infected by all kinds of parasitic microorganisms, you're going to need an immune system, and you're therefore going to need a circulatory system and a respiratory system, and you're going to need a bunch of other stuff that's already in chickens. Don't start with bleh meat and then build all the other stuff; start with a chicken and scale back or pare away the non-essential stuff, like the brain, through selective breeding. (We're already doing this, of course. Today's broilers have breasts so big they can't stand up, along with their atrophied brains.)

In other words, what PZ Meyers said.

Who needs a vat when you've got a chicken?

April 16, 2008

by PZ Myers

Revere is thinking about how to grow meat without the animal. It's a cool idea that's been floating around in science fiction for a while now, but, well, of course it has problems, and Revere notes a couple.

The two biggest, as far as I can see from a quick perusal of the burgeoning literature, are finding a suitable nutrient to grow the cells in; and then growing tissue that has the proper texture for being a meat substitute. Animal meat is not just muscle cells but a complicated structure also containing connective tissue, blood and blood vessels, nerves and fat. Just growing up masses of identical cells isn't sufficient. You have to reproduce an architecture.

I see those two problems as aspects of one much bigger problem. Muscle doesn't grow in isolation: it's always in a solid environmental context. It's made up of cells that respond to activity in a way that enhances performance for the organism, and incidentally promotes flavor and texture and bulk for the delectation of the carnivore. So what do you need to make edible muscle mass, beyond a sheet of myocytes in a culture dish (which, I suspect, would have the texture of slime and would not sell well in test markets)?

An architecture is right. You need connective tissue to form a framework and you need a rigid but motile structure to do work and exercise the growing muscle. Then, because you want a piece of muscle larger than a drop, you need a delivery system for nutrients: a circulatory system, with a pump. This muscle in a vat is going to need a skeleton and a heart.

When I teach physiology, one of the organs I emphasize is the liver. It's amazing how important a liver is to just about everything: growth, digestion, physical performance, reproduction, the whole shebang. Our cultured muscle will need a liver equivalent to support it. Even if we get rid of the digestive system entirely and feed this muscle mass on delivered supplies of pure glucose, amino acids, and various cofactors and enzymes, the liver is a primary regulatory agent for those substances.

Then we need an immune system. A huge lump of cells growing in a bath of sugar and amino acids is bacterial heaven — it's going to need major antibacterial/antiviral support.

The more I think about it, the more I think people are going at it backwards. We shouldn't be thinking about building muscle from the cells up, to create a purified system to produce meat for the market, we should be going the other way, starting with self-sustaining meat producers and genetically paring away the less commercially viable bits, like the brain. Instead of test-tube meat, we should be working on more efficient organisms that generate muscle tissue with the properties we want.

Guess what? Farmers have already been doing this! Look at the domestic cow and chicken and turkey: they're far more brainless than their wild relatives, and have been reduced to as much stupidity and helplessness as possible, without compromising their ability to survive semi-autonomously and harvest nutrients from naturally occurring food sources. I don't see all that much difference in the consequences between building up a functional meat producer from cells in a dish, and stripping down a functional meat producer from a line of domesticated animals. Both starting points are aiming at the same final result; I suspect that the top down procedure is more likely to achieve success in my lifetime.

Love his candy.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I'm a Level 5 vegan. I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

 

[Fennis]

This won't happen but I'm laughing at the idea of the world being overrun with chickens/pigs, etc... I don't think most of the chicken most people eat ever sees daylight, if people weren't eating them, there wouldn't all of a sudden be millions roaming the countryside, they just wouldn't ever be born.

I think its pretty obvious the pigs wont reproduce unless they are really desperate, but someone needs to get those chickens some rubbers

 

[tom22406]

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/pissed-off-gordon-ramsay-meme.jpg

 

[tom22406]

http://rs2img.memecdn.com/meat_o_1311481.jpg

 

[E-Z Glider]

As I pointed out in the 2008 and 2009 threads on this, I think the synthetic meat approach is backwards. In order to raise meat that isn't infected by all kinds of parasitic microorganisms, you're going to need an immune system, and you're therefore going to need a circulatory system and a respiratory system, and you're going to need a bunch of other stuff that's already in chickens. Don't start with bleh meat and then build all the other stuff; start with a chicken and scale back or pare away the non-essential stuff, like the brain, through selective breeding. (We're already doing this, of course. Today's broilers have breasts so big they can't stand up, along with their atrophied brains.)

In other words, what PZ Meyers said.

Who needs a vat when you've got a chicken?

April 16, 2008

by PZ Myers

Revere is thinking about how to grow meat without the animal. It's a cool idea that's been floating around in science fiction for a while now, but, well, of course it has problems, and Revere notes a couple.

The two biggest, as far as I can see from a quick perusal of the burgeoning literature, are finding a suitable nutrient to grow the cells in; and then growing tissue that has the proper texture for being a meat substitute. Animal meat is not just muscle cells but a complicated structure also containing connective tissue, blood and blood vessels, nerves and fat. Just growing up masses of identical cells isn't sufficient. You have to reproduce an architecture.

I see those two problems as aspects of one much bigger problem. Muscle doesn't grow in isolation: it's always in a solid environmental context. It's made up of cells that respond to activity in a way that enhances performance for the organism, and incidentally promotes flavor and texture and bulk for the delectation of the carnivore. So what do you need to make edible muscle mass, beyond a sheet of myocytes in a culture dish (which, I suspect, would have the texture of slime and would not sell well in test markets)?

An architecture is right. You need connective tissue to form a framework and you need a rigid but motile structure to do work and exercise the growing muscle. Then, because you want a piece of muscle larger than a drop, you need a delivery system for nutrients: a circulatory system, with a pump. This muscle in a vat is going to need a skeleton and a heart.

When I teach physiology, one of the organs I emphasize is the liver. It's amazing how important a liver is to just about everything: growth, digestion, physical performance, reproduction, the whole shebang. Our cultured muscle will need a liver equivalent to support it. Even if we get rid of the digestive system entirely and feed this muscle mass on delivered supplies of pure glucose, amino acids, and various cofactors and enzymes, the liver is a primary regulatory agent for those substances.

Then we need an immune system. A huge lump of cells growing in a bath of sugar and amino acids is bacterial heaven — it's going to need major antibacterial/antiviral support.

The more I think about it, the more I think people are going at it backwards. We shouldn't be thinking about building muscle from the cells up, to create a purified system to produce meat for the market, we should be going the other way, starting with self-sustaining meat producers and genetically paring away the less commercially viable bits, like the brain. Instead of test-tube meat, we should be working on more efficient organisms that generate muscle tissue with the properties we want.

Guess what? Farmers have already been doing this! Look at the domestic cow and chicken and turkey: they're far more brainless than their wild relatives, and have been reduced to as much stupidity and helplessness as possible, without compromising their ability to survive semi-autonomously and harvest nutrients from naturally occurring food sources. I don't see all that much difference in the consequences between building up a functional meat producer from cells in a dish, and stripping down a functional meat producer from a line of domesticated animals. Both starting points are aiming at the same final result; I suspect that the top down procedure is more likely to achieve success in my lifetime.

Good stuff, thanks. What's interesting is that in the 2008 and 2009 articles, plant-based meats were just concepts and theories. Today these concepts and theories are actually being produced. Hopefully 10 years from now (or sooner) they will be perfected. Thankfully, this alternative seems to be making much more progress than creating mutant animals with no brains.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Humans have been eating animal meat for 1.5 million years, and some of you guys think that's going to change in the next 40 years?

Good point - nothing has really changed over the past 40 years.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Humans have been eating animal meat for 1.5 million years, and some of you guys think that's going to change in the next 40 years?

Good point - nothing has really changed over the past 40 years.

i love that chick in ur profile pic...she made a crap load of videos of her dancing...what a body !!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

So hunting will still be OK, right? I mean, those animals aren't caged up or anything. I thought the comments about being overrun with cows, pigs and chickens were in jest. I hope so.

 

[E-Z Glider]

So hunting will still be OK, right? I mean, those animals aren't caged up or anything. I thought the comments about being overrun with cows, pigs and chickens were in jest. I hope so.

Sure, why not? The plant-meat will be better than animal-meat because its equal in taste/texture, cheaper, healthier, and more environmentally friendly than industrial agriculture. The only one that arguably wouldnt also be true for hunting is it being healthier.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Hunting will still be necessary because it will thin the herds.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Obviously wont work unless the taste is the same/better. All indications are that it will be. Cant imagine any other argument against this.

Seems like the same argument against tofu-dogs. The proponents of it will insist that it tastes just as good as a real hotdog, but its not even close.

Ive never heard anyone claim a tofu dog tastes like a hot dog, or that one of those bean patties tastes like a hamburger. This is not like anything that's ever been produced before. Alton Brown said "Most impressive. It's more like meat than anything Ive ever seen that wasn't meat." Bill Gates said "I honestly couldnt tell it from real chicken."

They already have the chicken substitute down, they expect to have ground beef down in another year. As quality improves and prices come down, people will stop eating meat. Our grandkids will think we were savages for eating caged animals and idiots for destroying our bodies and the earth in the process.

One simple question. What are you going to do with the animals that are left? They have no value as food, it will be inhuman to kill them or sterilize them and they need feed which costs a lot of money. I for one welcome our farm animal overlords!

 

[TheIronSheik]

Obviously wont work unless the taste is the same/better. All indications are that it will be. Cant imagine any other argument against this.

Seems like the same argument against tofu-dogs. The proponents of it will insist that it tastes just as good as a real hotdog, but its not even close.

Ive never heard anyone claim a tofu dog tastes like a hot dog, or that one of those bean patties tastes like a hamburger. This is not like anything that's ever been produced before. Alton Brown said "Most impressive. It's more like meat than anything Ive ever seen that wasn't meat." Bill Gates said "I honestly couldnt tell it from real chicken."

They already have the chicken substitute down, they expect to have ground beef down in another year. As quality improves and prices come down, people will stop eating meat. Our grandkids will think we were savages for eating caged animals and idiots for destroying our bodies and the earth in the process.

One simple question. What are you going to do with the animals that are left? They have no value as food, it will be inhuman to kill them or sterilize them and they need feed which costs a lot of money. I for one welcome our farm animal overlords!

Keep a close eye on the pigs.

 

[Guest]

Obviously wont work unless the taste is the same/better. All indications are that it will be. Cant imagine any other argument against this.

Seems like the same argument against tofu-dogs. The proponents of it will insist that it tastes just as good as a real hotdog, but its not even close.

Ive never heard anyone claim a tofu dog tastes like a hot dog, or that one of those bean patties tastes like a hamburger. This is not like anything that's ever been produced before. Alton Brown said "Most impressive. It's more like meat than anything Ive ever seen that wasn't meat." Bill Gates said "I honestly couldnt tell it from real chicken."

They already have the chicken substitute down, they expect to have ground beef down in another year. As quality improves and prices come down, people will stop eating meat. Our grandkids will think we were savages for eating caged animals and idiots for destroying our bodies and the earth in the process.

One simple question. What are you going to do with the animals that are left? They have no value as food, it will be inhuman to kill them or sterilize them and they need feed which costs a lot of money. I for one welcome our farm animal overlords!

Almost all of the beef and pork we eat have already been sterilized. I don't imagine this process is going to take place overnight and that there will be a huge surplus of livestock.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Finally, we can not produce fruit that consistently tastes good, how in the world have we figured out plant meat?

 

[Guest]

Is this going to be a global change? We export millions of tons of beef and pork.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Is this going to be a global change? We export millions of tons of beef and pork.

Of course. The rest of the world will hop on board as soon as it becomes a cheaper and healthier alternative. They wont even care about the taste. 'Murica will be the last to adopt because we are so spoiled.

 

[Guest]

Is this going to be a global change? We export millions of tons of beef and pork.

Of course. The rest of the world will hop on board as soon as it becomes a cheaper and healthier alternative. They wont even care about the taste. 'Murica will be the last to adopt because we are so spoiled.

You still sticking with your decade prediction? <_<

 

[[icon]]

I just 3D print all my meat using pink slime.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Is this going to be a global change? We export millions of tons of beef and pork.

Of course. The rest of the world will hop on board as soon as it becomes a cheaper and healthier alternative. They wont even care about the taste. 'Murica will be the last to adopt because we are so spoiled.

You still sticking with your decade prediction? <_<

I think the pendulum will begin to swing within the decade, but you will always have people who refuse to look at the facts (Darwinism). I mean, there are still people who smoke cigs, drink soda and eat fast food. Those people probably wont give up meat until the government steps in and saves them.

 

[Fennis]

Many of the people of the people I know who say "I don't eat meat", sure seem to eat a lot of meat.