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Something fishy with the 49ers Stat Crew (1 Viewer)

Young 8

Footballguy
Here they gave an ASSISTED TACKLE to both Wagner & Thomas

2-10-SF 25(13:41) F.Gore left tackle to SF 29 for 4 yards (B.Wagner; E.Thomas).

But then here they gave a SOLO to Borland and an ASSISTED TACKLE to Bethea & Aldon Smith.

3-16-SEA 20(11:00) (Shotgun) M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 31 for 11 yards (C.Borland, A.Bethea).

1-10-SF 45(5:29) M.Lynch left tackle to SF 42 for 3 yards (C.Borland, Ald.Smith)

:mellow:

 
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This is getting ridiculous, apparently someone has Borland on his fantasy team.

SOLO to Borland, AST to Dial

1-10-SEA 35(13:45) (Shotgun) M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 36 for 1 yard (C.Borland, Q.Dial).

AST to Cox & AST to Culliver

3-9-SEA 36(13:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Moeaki to SF 1 for 63 yards (P.Cox; C.Culliver)

 
This is getting ridiculous, apparently someone has Borland on his fantasy team.

SOLO to Borland, AST to Dial

1-10-SEA 35(13:45) (Shotgun) M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 36 for 1 yard (C.Borland, Q.Dial).

AST to Cox & AST to Culliver

3-9-SEA 36(13:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to T.Moeaki to SF 1 for 63 yards (P.Cox; C.Culliver)
Lol. I wouldn't bet on it. They missed two TFL for Borland in the 1st quarter.

 
pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.

 
pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.
There are scenarios where the player credited with the solo was the primary defender to take down the ball carrier (and likely would have without an assist). And there are scenarios where both players are involved in the tackle equally (and both get an assist).

The two occurrences aren't mutually exclusive... but I'm guessing your concern is mostly related to your fantasy matchup this week.

 
Even though I know that this is what stat crews do, I understand the OP's frustration. I agree that it doesn't make logical sense to credit a solo and an assist on the same play.

In my mind, a player shouldn't receive a solo tackle because he was first there, if another player was also required to stop the ball carrier's progress. In that case, both players should get an assists. Conversely, a player shouldn't get an assist for coming into a tacke situation late, unless his presence was needed to complete the play and stop the ball carrier.

Either it takes more than one player to stop a ball carrier or it doesn't. The variation in how stat crews approach this stuff is maddening. I really don't think it should be that hard.

 
pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.
There are scenarios where the player credited with the solo was the primary defender to take down the ball carrier (and likely would have without an assist). And there are scenarios where both players are involved in the tackle equally (and both get an assist).

The two occurrences aren't mutually exclusive... but I'm guessing your concern is mostly related to your fantasy matchup this week.
Fine but isn't a bit suspicious that Borland gets a SOLO while sharing a tackle with a teammate 4 times in the same game ?

(11:00) (Shotgun) 24-M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 31 for 11 yards (50-C.Borland, 41-A.Bethea) --> Borland SOLO, Betha AST

(5:29) 24-M.Lynch left tackle to SF 42 for 3 yards (50-C.Borland, 99-Ald.Smith) --> Borland SOLO, Smith AST

(13:45) (Shotgun) 24-M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 36 for 1 yard (50-C.Borland, 92-Q.Dial). --> Borland SOLO, Dial AST

(13:55) 24-M.Lynch left tackle to SF 40 for no gain (50-C.Borland, 99-Ald.Smith). --> Borland SOLO, Smith AST

15 SOLO Tackles instead of 11+4

Maybe, I repeat maybe, they're trying to boost his stats for the DROY award.

 
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There's no consistency between the different stat crews, but luckily there is a lot of consistency on each particular stat crew making it quite easy to project outcome. The work Jeff Ratcliffe is doing on this, and the way his work on this has evolved this season, is an invaluable tool to me. In some ways I find it easier to project defensive pts than offensive pts. There is of course plenty of variance but with stat crew tendencies and predicted gameflow I'd argue that defensive scoring is easier to predict than where Arians or Belichick decides to go with the ball any given week. Particularly with balanced or tackle heavy scoring.

As for the Borland situation described above....who knows but it's certainly worth monitoring. There has been times where I've felt that there is some bias with home stat crews when it comes to certain players, particularly in individual games where they'll just go on a run with a player, but it very well might be that it is something that evens out over time.

Given the size of fantasy football and the increased interest and revenue that comes from fantasy football, it is quite unbelievable that they don't standardize individual defensive stat scoring. But until they do there's a significant advantage for IDP owners that pay close attention to stat crew tendencies. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 
There's no consistency between the different stat crews, but luckily there is a lot of consistency on each particular stat crew making it quite easy to project outcome. The work Jeff Ratcliffe is doing on this, and the way his work on this has evolved this season, is an invaluable tool to me. In some ways I find it easier to project defensive pts than offensive pts. There is of course plenty of variance but with stat crew tendencies and predicted gameflow I'd argue that defensive scoring is easier to predict than where Arians or Belichick decides to go with the ball any given week. Particularly with balanced or tackle heavy scoring.

As for the Borland situation described above....who knows but it's certainly worth monitoring. There has been times where I've felt that there is some bias with home stat crews when it comes to certain players, particularly in individual games where they'll just go on a run with a player, but it very well might be that it is something that evens out over time.

Given the size of fantasy football and the increased interest and revenue that comes from fantasy football, it is quite unbelievable that they don't standardize individual defensive stat scoring. But until they do there's a significant advantage for IDP owners that pay close attention to stat crew tendencies. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Good point. Both Borland and Wagner have the SEA stat crew to contend with in Wk 15. Borland's 16-0 could easily turn into 4-12.

 
It's highly unlikely we'll ever see uniformity in how stat crews award tackles. It was worse when the team supplied their own stats years and years ago and, while it's improved now, there continue to be wide variations. As we've reported here for years, the NFL makes an effort to standardize the reporting system but has largely been unsuccessful.

The issue isn't going away. Over the past two seasons in particular, with the unusually large number of linebacker injuries and the ever-increasing number of platoon situations in the league, I would argue the stadium tendency charts in Larry Thomas' spreadsheet have been second in importance only to snap count for weekly IDP projections.

We discuss the stat crew tendencies in our articles every week and they almost always get a mention in our weekly podcast. I understand it's a bit of extra work to open the document and sift through the tables. But if you like to look at matchups to make lineup decisions and you aren't looking at Larry Thomas' spreadsheet -- which has 1-year, 3-year and 5-year trends and a weekly reckoning of all solo and assist numbers corrected for total tackle opportunity, you're really missing out.

 
It's highly unlikely we'll ever see uniformity in how stat crews award tackles. It was worse when the team supplied their own stats years and years ago and, while it's improved now, there continue to be wide variations. As we've reported here for years, the NFL makes an effort to standardize the reporting system but has largely been unsuccessful.

The issue isn't going away. Over the past two seasons in particular, with the unusually large number of linebacker injuries and the ever-increasing number of platoon situations in the league, I would argue the stadium tendency charts in Larry Thomas' spreadsheet have been second in importance only to snap count for weekly IDP projections.

We discuss the stat crew tendencies in our articles every week and they almost always get a mention in our weekly podcast. I understand it's a bit of extra work to open the document and sift through the tables. But if you like to look at matchups to make lineup decisions and you aren't looking at Larry Thomas' spreadsheet -- which has 1-year, 3-year and 5-year trends and a weekly reckoning of all solo and assist numbers corrected for total tackle opportunity, you're really missing out.
It's just so strange to me. How difficult can it be to lay down some basic rules on what constitutes a solo tackle and what constitutes an assisted tackle? It just seems like they don't care at all, but with the importance of fantasy football and its impact on TV deals one would think they should care. With the growth of fantasy football there is sure to be a lot more people moving over into dynasty and IDP so it seems like something they should care about. I know I'm preaching to the choir, or the priest himself, but it just baffles me.

 
It's highly unlikely we'll ever see uniformity in how stat crews award tackles. It was worse when the team supplied their own stats years and years ago and, while it's improved now, there continue to be wide variations. As we've reported here for years, the NFL makes an effort to standardize the reporting system but has largely been unsuccessful.

The issue isn't going away. Over the past two seasons in particular, with the unusually large number of linebacker injuries and the ever-increasing number of platoon situations in the league, I would argue the stadium tendency charts in Larry Thomas' spreadsheet have been second in importance only to snap count for weekly IDP projections.

We discuss the stat crew tendencies in our articles every week and they almost always get a mention in our weekly podcast. I understand it's a bit of extra work to open the document and sift through the tables. But if you like to look at matchups to make lineup decisions and you aren't looking at Larry Thomas' spreadsheet -- which has 1-year, 3-year and 5-year trends and a weekly reckoning of all solo and assist numbers corrected for total tackle opportunity, you're really missing out.
It's just so strange to me. How difficult can it be to lay down some basic rules on what constitutes a solo tackle and what constitutes an assisted tackle? It just seems like they don't care at all, but with the importance of fantasy football and its impact on TV deals one would think they should care. With the growth of fantasy football there is sure to be a lot more people moving over into dynasty and IDP so it seems like something they should care about. I know I'm preaching to the choir, or the priest himself, but it just baffles me.
I'm with you. It's frustrating to those monitoring the stat crews, too.

The rules are there. There are guidebooks and an online tutorial to show spotters and recorders how the NFL would prefer tackles to be recorded. There's a default in the computer entry system to award two assists on plays in which two players are credited with a tackle. It can be overridden, as has been noted earlier in the thread.

It is difficult from the press box (and often times from the TV angle) to know exactly who contacted a ballcarrier first. But there's no question there are multiple plays a game where the stat crew makes a decision that a large majority of other observers would disagree with.

You're correct in your argument that the league should care about how fantasy football affects its bottom line. There's a reason tackles are currently, and likely will remain, an unofficial statistic, however. Who's going to certify the tackle results, mediate disputes and do so in a timely fashion? Therein lies the rub.

Much of fantasy sports involves exploiting inefficiencies in how the masses see and understand the game. Some of it is true football -- can you evaluate talent, make educated guesses on game scripts and understand how the playbook affects each player? Some of it -- like this -- isn't. It's frustrating as hell to see your player not credited with a tackle when he should've been, but there are other ways to take advantage of this information, too.

ETA: There are a handful of us that have a good relationship with the person who monitors the stat crews. I'm sure Jeff may be included in that group, too. What we've been lucky enough to do is make suggestions in how some data gets reported to us. We're often given a heads-up when the default or reporting system changes so we can keep our projections and rankings as informed as possible. Hopefully, that relationship will continue in future years.

 
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pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.
There are scenarios where the player credited with the solo was the primary defender to take down the ball carrier (and likely would have without an assist). And there are scenarios where both players are involved in the tackle equally (and both get an assist).

The two occurrences aren't mutually exclusive... but I'm guessing your concern is mostly related to your fantasy matchup this week.
Never seen that ... So they credit 1 1/2 tackles for 1 play? I'm calling BS !

 
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pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.
There are scenarios where the player credited with the solo was the primary defender to take down the ball carrier (and likely would have without an assist). And there are scenarios where both players are involved in the tackle equally (and both get an assist).

The two occurrences aren't mutually exclusive... but I'm guessing your concern is mostly related to your fantasy matchup this week.
Never seen that ... So they credit 1 1/2 tackles for 1 play? I'm calling BS !
No, it's true.

This used to the default when two players were credited with a tackle on the same play. The first player would be credited with the solo, the second with an "assisted' tackle. Assisted tackles and assists were put into the same column. You tracked the difference by punctuation -- a semicolon meant assists, a comma meant solo/assisted -- and you can see that in the posts above.

The computer default has been assist-assist for the past 2+ seasons now. When we were clued into the change in recording before the season, we began following assists and solos even more carefully than before.

 
pretty sure sf always rolls like that -- heavy solo, light assist
That's not the problem here, I wanna know why if 2 players tackle another player they are credited with 2 ASSISTED TACKLES but if Borland is involved he gets a SOLO and his partner an AST.

That doesn't make any sense unless someone from the 49ers Stat Crew needed to boost his stats.
There are scenarios where the player credited with the solo was the primary defender to take down the ball carrier (and likely would have without an assist). And there are scenarios where both players are involved in the tackle equally (and both get an assist).The two occurrences aren't mutually exclusive... but I'm guessing your concern is mostly related to your fantasy matchup this week.
Never seen that ... So they credit 1 1/2 tackles for 1 play? I'm calling BS !
Call it whatever you want... It happens and is scored as such.

 
I think what OP is saying whenever Borland gets in the act, he usually gets the Solo tackles even when it's Assisted while the away teams only get the Assisted.

Could be home filed bias thing but if true, the stat keeper needs to be more consistent.

 
I think what OP is saying whenever Borland gets in the act, he usually gets the Solo tackles even when it's Assisted while the away teams only get the Assisted.

Could be home filed bias thing but if true, the stat keeper needs to be more consistent.
could be, but also could be borland's anticipation and general beastliness gets him there a fraction of a second quicker.

there's a reason he gets, like, 20 tackles/week

 
I think what OP is saying whenever Borland gets in the act, he usually gets the Solo tackles even when it's Assisted while the away teams only get the Assisted.

Could be home filed bias thing but if true, the stat keeper needs to be more consistent.
Wouldn't be the first time... a long history of such around the league. Zach Thomas, London Fletcher, etc.

 
this is not unusual.

Giants crew has graded 620 tackle opportunities this year and handed out a solo tackle on 590 of them (95.2%). They've also given out 237 assists. Pretty obvious they are giving out a solo plus assist very often. If you count a solo as a full tackle and an assist as a half tackle, you still wind up with 708.5 tackles awarded on 620 plays (1.14/play). That's tackle inflation.

In contrast, the Eagles crew has graded 663 tackle opportunities this year and handed out a solo tackle on 549 of them (82.8%). They've also given out just 97 assists. Pretty obvious they are unlikely to give out more than 1 "full tackle" per play, and also indicates there are quite a few plays where they don't award a tackle at all. If you count the assists as half a tackle, you wind up with 597.5 tackles awarded on 663 plays (.90/play). That's tackle deflation.

Those are two extremes, but Buffalo is very similar to the Giants crew, and Denver is very similar to the Eagles crew.

 

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