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Sophmore slump (1 Viewer)

RoyGBiv

Footballguy
I see it basketball and in football. Why does this sometimes happen?

I think in some cases teams aren't caught by surprise by a known good player in his second year and have a game plan ready for them... but my best guess would be that after a good rookie campaign, that maybe the player thinks he's got it all figured out and doesn't work as hard in the off season.

What do you guys think?

 
I think there are several factors that go into slumps.

1: Coaching Staff changes. Just look at Alex Smith or Jason Campbell for examples where they were constantly getting new OCs (or Head Coaches) and could never get a chance to settle down into a system for 2-3 seasons.

2: Surrounding talent leaving for FA or retiring. Rookie QBs or first year starters tend to rely on/lean on the short yardage/medium yardage passing game more often than not. In their second seasons they may have lost that go to TE/veteran RB that they could dump the ball of to. Now they have to rely on receivers who may also be new to the system and on young, rookie talent at the skill positions (see Stafford with RB Jahvid Best at RB this season).

3: The Evolution of Playbooks. The playbooks themselves grow larger in the second year and much more information not only has to be digested but utilized by the player. So instead of knowing say 200 plays forwards and backwards, now they are asked to know 300 or 350. Now they are given essentially the full playbook and are asked to improve (sometimes greatly) on top of what they did in their first year.

4: Injuries to Surrounding Talent. See Michael Turner's injury at RB and the effect it had on Matt Ryan's performance at QB. A second year player may be talented but they can only do so much with the backup or third string talent that takes over for an injured starter.

 
Regression to the mean is responsible for the vast majority of sophomore slumps, IMO.

Players like Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Josh Freeman, Derrious Heyward-Bey and Donald Brown won't have sophomore slumps in 2010.

 
There are lots of players that have one great season and then perform poorly in the next one. It's no different than if they break out in their rookie season and then perform poorly in their second, or if they break out in their third season and then perform poorly in their fourth.

The only difference is is that people have this silly perception that a highly performing rookie is "only going to get better" when in reality there's just as good a chance that he was just a one year wonder as there is for the guy who breaks out 3-4 years into the league.

 
Regression to the mean is responsible for the vast majority of sophomore slumps, IMO. Players like Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Josh Freeman, Derrious Heyward-Bey and Donald Brown won't have sophomore slumps in 2010.
Chase beat me to it - it's mostly regression to the mean. Every year there are several pretty good rookies. Some of them catch a lot of breaks - they find themselves in a great situation, stay healthy, get lucky in making a few extra big plays and avoiding mistakes - and end up looking like a star. Then the next year, some second-year players will catch a lot of breaks, but it probably won't be the same guys, so the ones who looked like stars as rookies will look like they're having a slump.It happens with veterans, too, but people are a bit less likely to be fooled by it because 1) veterans have a track record of less impressive performance, and 2) people expect young players to keep improving.
 
I sort of also equate it to a SB hangover. Their bodies simply aren't used to being pushed like a full NFL season demands. By December of their rookie years most of them are running on fumes (the rookie wall as they call it, you see it a lot in QBs). Mini camps start right back in June, there's usually more asked of them, more pressure, teams are focusing in on them more, not to mention your normal regression to a mean... it's easy o see that there's a variety of reasons guys can't instantly reproduce their initial NFL success.

 
I don't disagree with some of the reasons mentioned, but one that has: average players in good situations as rookies and then the situation changes. Great talent tends to perform well no matter what; but average talent doesn't. Steve Slaton is a great example.

 
I see it basketball and in football. Why does this sometimes happen?

I think in some cases teams aren't caught by surprise by a known good player in his second year and have a game plan ready for them... but my best guess would be that after a good rookie campaign, that maybe the player thinks he's got it all figured out and doesn't work as hard in the off season.

What do you guys think?
Because #### happens...sometimes.Seriously. Sometimes #### happens and when it does you get a "sophmore slump". So sometimes you have a slump and sometimes you don't.

Take any two year sample size from even veteran players and you'll find many instances where the second of the two years was the less sucessful year. There are so many variables at play in determining how good an NFL player's stats are (many that the player has no control over) that there is bound to be variation from year to year.

Unfortunately, when the two years you look at are a player's first two years, we act like it's some phenomenon unique to those two years when it's really not. I'd venture to say that a true sophmore slump where the player actually personally regresses in his development are pretty rare. Most sophmore slumps are caused by factors outside the players control...like injuries, personnel changes, scheme changes, game-planning, etc. But we lazily call any decrease in production a slump because we can't/won't isolate clearly the specific causes of the reduction.

Generally speaking, players do get better and do put up better numbers in later seasons. And generally a second year player is a better player than he was the year before although the amount of improvement can vary. But those numerous variables are always in play and the net result, even after you factor in the player's personal development, can be a reduction from last year's numbers.

But unlike what some have posted, I don't agree that a strong rookie performance is just as likely to be one year wonder as is a breakout performance by a later year player. If that were the case, you'd see more players than there are with their rookie year being their best year.

If a player is talented enough to start over vets and produce his rookie year, I'll bet on him to better those numbers in later seasons. His odds of having #### happen to him are pretty much equal regardless of what year he is in, so I might as well bet on him as a sophmore since his learning curve provides some positive movement and his body is still able to perform.

 
its called bein lazy

these guys come into the league with something to prove....they do....but they also make new friends and have #######s full of money

so next season all they care about is spending money, going to clubs, drinkin cristal and rose.......so they become lazy

simple

 
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.

It isn't playbook size...they don't double the playbook. AT most, they expand a players role. If the guy knew the playbook enough to be a SUCCESS in year 1...then he already knew most of the playbook. It isn't personel...many of these slumps happen without changes in personel.

Regression to the mean is a short, not quite right answer. It might be a regression to the mean...if the player doesn't develope further.

 
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.

It isn't playbook size...they don't double the playbook. AT most, they expand a players role. If the guy knew the playbook enough to be a SUCCESS in year 1...then he already knew most of the playbook. It isn't personel...many of these slumps happen without changes in personel.

Regression to the mean is a short, not quite right answer. It might be a regression to the mean...if the player doesn't develope further.
I agree with this. Rookies can often fly under the radar for a while and there is no film to study on them what so ever when they start year one. As much as NFL personal men study film, there just isn't enough of a sample size and time to really get a strong feel on the rookies until the off season. That is also due to the fact that rookies are evolving their skills a great deal in year one.
 
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.
Quarterbacks improve more from year 1 to year 2 than during any other year. I'm not sure why you'd say this is especially true for QBs?
 
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.
Quarterbacks improve more from year 1 to year 2 than during any other year. I'm not sure why you'd say this is especially true for QBs?
Yeah, I am not at all convinced that it has anything to do with getting to know the players better from more scouting. In baseball, yes. That definitely happens with pitchers in baseball. But I think football is more system orientated and less player focused. You aren't going to change what you defensively in a fundamental way because of scouting a player. You scout the offense. You have your base defense and you develop a strategy. I just don't think you do that much to change for each and every player for every game. There would be no tactical continuity.Instead, it has more to do with

a) players getting lazy and living the high life

b) players getting into a good situation but they really aren't that talented--leading to regression to the mean. (Slaton)

c) change in coaches (Eddie Royal 2009)

 
az_prof said:
Chase Stuart said:
renesauz said:
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.
Quarterbacks improve more from year 1 to year 2 than during any other year. I'm not sure why you'd say this is especially true for QBs?
Yeah, I am not at all convinced that it has anything to do with getting to know the players better from more scouting. In baseball, yes. That definitely happens with pitchers in baseball. But I think football is more system orientated and less player focused. You aren't going to change what you defensively in a fundamental way because of scouting a player. You scout the offense. You have your base defense and you develop a strategy. I just don't think you do that much to change for each and every player for every game. There would be no tactical continuity.Instead, it has more to do with

a) players getting lazy and living the high life

b) players getting into a good situation but they really aren't that talented--leading to regression to the mean. (Slaton)c) change in coaches (Eddie Royal 2009)
Is Slaton really not talented? Was his sophomore slump and fumbles more attributable to his neck injury and hand numbness than anything else? I dunno, not talented seems a bit off the mark. Is Matt Forte not talented too?

 
I disagree with most of these posts. Sophomore slumps are real, and they're caused primarily by the fact that succesful rookies are no longer overlooked. Opposing teams have more and often better film to study to prepare for them. We especially see this with QB's.

It isn't playbook size...they don't double the playbook. AT most, they expand a players role. If the guy knew the playbook enough to be a SUCCESS in year 1...then he already knew most of the playbook. It isn't personel...many of these slumps happen without changes in personel.

Regression to the mean is a short, not quite right answer. It might be a regression to the mean...if the player doesn't develope further.
I agree with this. Rookies can often fly under the radar for a while and there is no film to study on them what so ever when they start year one. As much as NFL personal men study film, there just isn't enough of a sample size and time to really get a strong feel on the rookies until the off season. That is also due to the fact that rookies are evolving their skills a great deal in year one.
Just curious how many rookies (% wise) have a sophomore slump? Ryan, Slaton, Forte and Royal did but Flacco, Mendy, Charles, Stewart and Johnson didn't. If it's less than 50%, then it would seem that a slump is the exception more than the rule. And it would beg the question why don't most players have a slump if it's a matter of gameplanning. Weren't the Ravens' opponents gameplanning for Flacco?
 

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