STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (1 Viewer)

[Insein]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

I would as well. Wish they gave us that in one paragraph.

 

[Insein]

For you guys that are being nitpicky please go back and watch New Hope and Empire with the same eye and get back to us.

Have been doing it for almost 40 years, friend. The flaws are just not the same or as large.I'm really glad people enjoyed it. I wish I was one of them.

Really?? The Empire cant find the last jedi that happens to be on the same planet that his father is from and just so happens to have the same last name, and just so happens to be living with his uncle who is not in hiding and has the same last name, and his father just so happens to be the most force sensitive ever? Gotcha

Tatooine was a nothing planet in the middle of nowhere with no Imperial presence. It was controlled by the Hutts. And his uncle's last name was Lars.And Vader didn't know about Luke's existence and thus had no reason to look for him.

And if the emperor had knowledge of Luke it was in his interest to keep him there until he needed to replace Vader.

Tatooin was freaking Vaders home planet, Uncle Owen had a Skywalker stepmother who was mother to Vader and you are willing to buy that Vader couldn't sense his own son's presence, even though its shown later that he could. C'mon dude. You are a being a bit of a fraud here.

Vader could sense him when he was near, not half a galaxy away. He didn't have Cerebro in his stasis pod.

Are you also willing to buy that he was in the same room with Luke a few times before he know that Luke was his son?

No he wasn't. The first time they "share a room" is on Cloud City.He senses him first during the trench run on the first Death Star because it's there that the Force really begins to awaken in him.

"The force is strong with this one.'

 

[Anarchy99]

One thing I was going to ask was what happened to Han in the 30 years since ROTJ? He was pretty much royalty and a rock star then, had earned multiple rewards and a king's ransom for what he had done, and likely would never have to pay for a drink or a meal again. So he went back to being a two bit smuggler and running a freighter? I understand that was the character that people wanted to remember, but if he wanted to get out of the limelight would he have gone back to living paycheck to paycheck/one transport at a time?

Just would have been nice if they threw in that he blew through his money, gambled it away, someone had robbed him blind, etc. to explain how after 30 years he was back to where he started.

 

[Capella]

Dufresne - for instance you complaining about the Han death is a ridiculous fanboy complaint. My wife who has only seen parts of the original trilogy gasped when he was killed, as did my whole theatre. You saying it was telegraphed is because you already knew he was going to die because you're too "inside".

You probably fit into less than 1% of the people watching this movie. They aren't going to change it just so some internet mark can be impressed with the out of nowhere death scene.

I suppose I've watched too many movies.The heroes split up. Ren sensed Han and baited him onto the bridge. I don't think you need Force powers to see how that plays out.

I'd say it's more that you just can't allow yourself to enjoy a movie.

That would be true if I didn't enjoy any movies. But that's not true either.You guys aren't very good at psychoanalysis.

I'm not really trying to psychoanalyze somebody who thought 4-6 were great but then thought 7 was stupid.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Dufresne - for instance you complaining about the Han death is a ridiculous fanboy complaint. My wife who has only seen parts of the original trilogy gasped when he was killed, as did my whole theatre. You saying it was telegraphed is because you already knew he was going to die because you're too "inside".

You probably fit into less than 1% of the people watching this movie. They aren't going to change it just so some internet mark can be impressed with the out of nowhere death scene.

I suppose I've watched too many movies.The heroes split up. Ren sensed Han and baited him onto the bridge. I don't think you need Force powers to see how that plays out.

I'd say it's more that you just can't allow yourself to enjoy a movie.

That would be true if I didn't enjoy any movies. But that's not true either.You guys aren't very good at psychoanalysis.

I'm not really trying to psychoanalyze somebody who thought 4-6 were great but then thought 7 was stupid.

I said 4 & 5 were great and 6 & 7 were good. They were merely good because they have flaws.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Look, no one flaw is all that egregious. But they add up to a total where it affects my enjoyment.

 

[Insein]

One thing I was going to ask was what happened to Han in the 30 years since ROTJ? He was pretty much royalty and a rock star then, had earned multiple rewards and a king's ransom for what he had done, and likely would never have to pay for a drink or a meal again. So he went back to being a two bit smuggler and running a freighter? I understand that was the character that people wanted to remember, but if he wanted to get out of the limelight would he have gone back to living paycheck to paycheck/one transport at a time?

Just would have been nice if they threw in that he blew through his money, gambled it away, someone had robbed him blind, etc. to explain how after 30 years he was back to where he started.

Again could have been handled with Chewie using wookie speak to fill in the back story. Like in Empire.

Leia: "I thought you said this guy was your friend?"

Chewie to Han: "Rawaooowaooo"

Han: "Well that was a long time ago, I'm sure he's forgotten about that by now."

Boom done. No need to spell it all out but give us something to infer. 30 years and we have Han and Leia not seeing each other in decades. Hans smuggling again and Leia is... A general? She was never a general. She was a politician turned freedom fighter. Why isn't she leading the new republic?

Simple things that the general public I guess doesn't care about but Star wars fans do.

 

[Mario Kart]

If some of the metrics being used to judge Ep. 7 were used for the prequels, people would realize the prequels were not bad. And, if those same metrics were used to judge to originals, people would realize the originals "appeared" to be terrible.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

For you guys that are being nitpicky please go back and watch New Hope and Empire with the same eye and get back to us.

Have been doing it for almost 40 years, friend. The flaws are just not the same or as large.I'm really glad people enjoyed it. I wish I was one of them.

Really?? The Empire cant find the last jedi that happens to be on the same planet that his father is from and just so happens to have the same last name, and just so happens to be living with his uncle who is not in hiding and has the same last name, and his father just so happens to be the most force sensitive ever? Gotcha

Tatooine was a nothing planet in the middle of nowhere with no Imperial presence. It was controlled by the Hutts. And his uncle's last name was Lars.And Vader didn't know about Luke's existence and thus had no reason to look for him.

And if the emperor had knowledge of Luke it was in his interest to keep him there until he needed to replace Vader.

Tatooin was freaking Vaders home planet, Uncle Owen had a Skywalker stepmother who was mother to Vader and you are willing to buy that Vader couldn't sense his own son's presence, even though its shown later that he could. C'mon dude. You are a being a bit of a fraud here.

Vader could sense him when he was near, not half a galaxy away. He didn't have Cerebro in his stasis pod.

Are you also willing to buy that he was in the same room with Luke a few times before he know that Luke was his son?

No he wasn't. The first time they "share a room" is on Cloud City.He senses him first during the trench run on the first Death Star because it's there that the Force really begins to awaken in him.

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

 

[Don't Noonan]

Just got done watching Empire again. No way TFA ever passes it. Nearly ever scene is flawless. The real build up of romance between Leia and Han puts AOTC to freaking shame. The chemistry between every character is believable and has no forced moments to it. Vader is an absolute boss in this. And the title scroll gives us everything we need in regards to politics. Rebels won that battle. However, the Empire is pissed about the death Star and are chasing the rebels full force. Simple. We know where everyone stands in case anyone thought the Rebels were gaining ground after that win.

The last hour of the movie is so good. It will be amazing if any future Star wars movies can top it.

I loved the original Star Wars episodes 4-6 and hated the prequels. I saw TFA on Christmas and thought it was very good. I would rank them, Episode 6, Episode 4, Episode 7, Episode 5. Empire Strikes back is clearly the weakest of the 4 to me.

 

[mcintyre1]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

This is pretty much exactly it. They apparently flesh this out in the "Visual Dictionary" that was released along with the movie. It'd have been nice to get a bit more explanation in the movie, but at the same time I like movies that don't explain every little thing all the time through ham-handed dialogue because I feel like it generally hurts the narrativeto do so.

The New Republic arose from the Rebel Alliance after the Rebels defeated the remnants of the Empire at the Battle of Jakku about a year after the Battle of Yavin in 6 (that's why there's all of those giant ship skeletons on Jakku). The few remaining Empire loyalists fled to the Unknown Regions (an existing part of Star Wars lore from other stuff) and created the First Order as a successor state to the Empire.

The New Republic vowed not to repeat the errors of the Old Republic by having a large standing army that can be used to subvert control and signed a treaty with the First Order to limit fleet construction and disarm. Leia disagreed with this and argued that they should be arming up and destroying the First Order rather than letting them rebuild in the fringes of the galaxy, but the new Senate voted against this and labelled Leia a warmonger.

The Resistance arose through the efforts of Leia to build something to fight the First Order and is supported -- "off the books" -- by a significant part of the senate who provide money and materials through back channels. Thus the lines by Hucks and the First Order about the senate "lying" to the people, etc.

The senate also apparently rotates every few years to be hosted in a different system in an effort to be different from the unresponsive Old Republic, thus why it is the "Hosnian system" that is destroyed in the movie, not Coruscant.

I also think that's why Poe has the seemingly odd reaction he does when he's first captured and shoved out of the transport ship at the start of the movie. He has a little "bug eyed" moment when he looked around and sees where he is. The First Order is, by treaty, not allowed to construct Star Destroyers and as far as anyone knows, they don't have any. It is possible that the one we see in the movie is the only one currently in existence (we only ever see one on screen as far as I remember).

 

[Insein]

Just got done watching Empire again. No way TFA ever passes it. Nearly ever scene is flawless. The real build up of romance between Leia and Han puts AOTC to freaking shame. The chemistry between every character is believable and has no forced moments to it. Vader is an absolute boss in this. And the title scroll gives us everything we need in regards to politics. Rebels won that battle. However, the Empire is pissed about the death Star and are chasing the rebels full force. Simple. We know where everyone stands in case anyone thought the Rebels were gaining ground after that win.

The last hour of the movie is so good. It will be amazing if any future Star wars movies can top it.

I loved the original Star Wars episodes 4-6 and hated the prequels. I saw TFA on Christmas and thought it was very good. I would rank them, Episode 6, Episode 4, Episode 7, Episode 5. Empire Strikes back is clearly the weakest of the 4 to me.

To each their own. I can't change your opinion but that is bizarre to me.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

Well now you're switching the argument.And Yavin was simply too big for the Death Star to destroy. It's powerful but still has limitations.

 

[Insein]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

This is pretty much exactly it. They apparently flesh this out in the "Visual Dictionary" that was released along with the movie. It'd have been nice to get a bit more explanation in the movie, but at the same time I like movies that don't explain every little thing all the time through ham-handed dialogue because I feel like it generally hurts the narrativeto do so.

The New Republic arose from the Rebel Alliance after the Rebels defeated the remnants of the Empire at the Battle of Jakku about a year after the Battle of Yavin in 6 (that's why there's all of those giant ship skeletons on Jakku). The few remaining Empire loyalists fled to the Unknown Regions (an existing part of Star Wars lore from other stuff) and created the First Order as a successor state to the Empire.

The New Republic vowed not to repeat the errors of the Old Republic by having a large standing army that can be used to subvert control and signed a treaty with the First Order to limit fleet construction and disarm. Leia disagreed with this and argued that they should be arming up and destroying the First Order rather than letting them rebuild in the fringes of the galaxy, but the new Senate voted against this and labelled Leia a warmonger.

The Resistance arose through the efforts of Leia to build something to fight the First Order and is supported -- "off the books" -- by a significant part of the senate who provide money and materials through back channels. Thus the lines by Hucks and the First Order about the senate "lying" to the people, etc.

The senate also apparently rotates every few years to be hosted in a different system in an effort to be different from the unresponsive Old Republic, thus why it is the "Hosnian system" that is destroyed in the movie, not Coruscant.

I also think that's why Poe has the seemingly odd reaction he does when he's first captured and shoved out of the transport ship at the start of the movie. He has a little "bug eyed" moment when he looked around and sees where he is. The First Order is, by treaty, not allowed to construct Star Destroyers and as far as anyone knows, they don't have any. It is possible that the one we see in the movie is the only one currently in existence (we only ever see one on screen as far as I remember).

That makes sense. Wish they would have gone another way with it for 30 years but its plausible.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This is pretty much exactly it. They apparently flesh this out in the "Visual Dictionary" that was released along with the movie. It'd have been nice to get a bit more explanation in the movie, but at the same time I like movies that don't explain every little thing all the time through ham-handed dialogue because I feel like it generally hurts the narrativeto do so.

The New Republic arose from the Rebel Alliance after the Rebels defeated the remnants of the Empire at the Battle of Jakku about a year after the Battle of Yavin in 6 (that's why there's all of those giant ship skeletons on Jakku). The few remaining Empire loyalists fled to the Unknown Regions (an existing part of Star Wars lore from other stuff) and created the First Order as a successor state to the Empire.

The New Republic vowed not to repeat the errors of the Old Republic by having a large standing army that can be used to subvert control and signed a treaty with the First Order to limit fleet construction and disarm. Leia disagreed with this and argued that they should be arming up and destroying the First Order rather than letting them rebuild in the fringes of the galaxy, but the new Senate voted against this and labelled Leia a warmonger.

The Resistance arose through the efforts of Leia to build something to fight the First Order and is supported -- "off the books" -- by a significant part of the senate who provide money and materials through back channels. Thus the lines by Hucks and the First Order about the senate "lying" to the people, etc.

The senate also apparently rotates every few years to be hosted in a different system in an effort to be different from the unresponsive Old Republic, thus why it is the "Hosnian system" that is destroyed in the movie, not Coruscant.

I also think that's why Poe has the seemingly odd reaction he does when he's first captured and shoved out of the transport ship at the start of the movie. He has a little "bug eyed" moment when he looked around and sees where he is. The First Order is, by treaty, not allowed to construct Star Destroyers and as far as anyone knows, they don't have any. It is possible that the one we see in the movie is the only one currently in existence (we only ever see one on screen as far as I remember).

Well now this is all helpful.

 

[mcintyre1]

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

Well now you're switching the argument.And Yavin was simply too big for the Death Star to destroy. It's powerful but still has limitations.

Also, the original Death Star took an entire day to charge up the laser. Arguably they could have destroyed Yavin to clear the way, but then they'd have had to wait 24 hours for the weapon to recharge to destroy the moon behind it.

The second Death Star over Endor was 3-4x as large as the original death star and generated far more power, enabling it to fire about every 3 minutes. Improved targeting computers also allowed it to target capital ships, which the original could not do. That's also why the Rebel fleet in 6 just drops right in next to it, aside from not thinking it was operational, they didn't assume it could fire that quickly or at their ships.

 

[AcerFC]

Look, no one flaw is all that egregious. But they add up to a total where it affects my enjoyment.

I think the difference is I choose to not care

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Well, if it could destroy Yavin it would by extension destroy Yavin IV.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Look, no one flaw is all that egregious. But they add up to a total where it affects my enjoyment.

I think the difference is I choose to not care

Okay. Good for you.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

Well now you're switching the argument.And Yavin was simply too big for the Death Star to destroy. It's powerful but still has limitations.

Also, the original Death Star took an entire day to charge up the laser. Arguably they could have destroyed Yavin to clear the way, but then they'd have had to wait 24 hours for the weapon to recharge to destroy the moon behind it.

The second Death Star over Endor was 3-4x as large as the original death star and generated far more power, enabling it to fire about every 3 minutes. Improved targeting computers also allowed it to target capital ships, which the original could not do. That's also why the Rebel fleet in 6 just drops right in next to it, aside from not thinking it was operational, they didn't assume it could fire that quickly or at their ships.

Yes because an entire planet blowing up wouldnt destroy the little moon surrounding it.

 

[bagger]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

 

[mcintyre1]

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

Well now you're switching the argument.And Yavin was simply too big for the Death Star to destroy. It's powerful but still has limitations.

Also, the original Death Star took an entire day to charge up the laser. Arguably they could have destroyed Yavin to clear the way, but then they'd have had to wait 24 hours for the weapon to recharge to destroy the moon behind it.

The second Death Star over Endor was 3-4x as large as the original death star and generated far more power, enabling it to fire about every 3 minutes. Improved targeting computers also allowed it to target capital ships, which the original could not do. That's also why the Rebel fleet in 6 just drops right in next to it, aside from not thinking it was operational, they didn't assume it could fire that quickly or at their ships.

Yes because an entire planet blowing up wouldnt destroy the little moon surrounding it.

Fair point. But, I mean, it very well might not. Astronomical distances are pretty damn big. Not saying you could continue to live on the moon, but if it wasn't destroyed along with the gas giant it'd kind of just float off into the distance and the Rebels could escape.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

 

[(HULK)]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

I would as well. Wish they gave us that in one paragraph.

Apparently the novelization fleshes this out. And the above theory is correct.

 

[bagger]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

During the battle of Yavin Vader doesnt know Luke is his son and he also doesnt know Leia is his daughter. Lucas didnt even plan to have Luke be Vaders son until Empire was co-written. That's why there are so many holes in New Hope in reference to him having two kids in the universe and one that shares his surname on his freaking home planet.

There are tons of holes in the first trilogy and if you choose to ignore them thats fine, but at least be intellectually honest about it. I mean the Empire couldnt blow up a moon with the death star because there was a planet in the way.

Well now you're switching the argument.And Yavin was simply too big for the Death Star to destroy. It's powerful but still has limitations.

Also, the original Death Star took an entire day to charge up the laser. Arguably they could have destroyed Yavin to clear the way, but then they'd have had to wait 24 hours for the weapon to recharge to destroy the moon behind it.

The second Death Star over Endor was 3-4x as large as the original death star and generated far more power, enabling it to fire about every 3 minutes. Improved targeting computers also allowed it to target capital ships, which the original could not do. That's also why the Rebel fleet in 6 just drops right in next to it, aside from not thinking it was operational, they didn't assume it could fire that quickly or at their ships.

Yes because an entire planet blowing up wouldnt destroy the little moon surrounding it.

Fair point. But, I mean, it very well might not. Astronomical distances are pretty damn big. Not saying you could continue to live on the moon, but if it wasn't destroyed along with the gas giant it'd kind of just float off into the distance and the Rebels could escape.

Good luck surviving this explosion.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Pretty sure if my wife found this thread and read these arguments she would divorce me.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

 

[NewlyRetired]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

This is pretty much exactly it. They apparently flesh this out in the "Visual Dictionary" that was released along with the movie. It'd have been nice to get a bit more explanation in the movie, but at the same time I like movies that don't explain every little thing all the time through ham-handed dialogue because I feel like it generally hurts the narrativeto do so.

The New Republic arose from the Rebel Alliance after the Rebels defeated the remnants of the Empire at the Battle of Jakku about a year after the Battle of Yavin in 6 (that's why there's all of those giant ship skeletons on Jakku). The few remaining Empire loyalists fled to the Unknown Regions (an existing part of Star Wars lore from other stuff) and created the First Order as a successor state to the Empire.

The New Republic vowed not to repeat the errors of the Old Republic by having a large standing army that can be used to subvert control and signed a treaty with the First Order to limit fleet construction and disarm. Leia disagreed with this and argued that they should be arming up and destroying the First Order rather than letting them rebuild in the fringes of the galaxy, but the new Senate voted against this and labelled Leia a warmonger.

The Resistance arose through the efforts of Leia to build something to fight the First Order and is supported -- "off the books" -- by a significant part of the senate who provide money and materials through back channels. Thus the lines by Hucks and the First Order about the senate "lying" to the people, etc.

The senate also apparently rotates every few years to be hosted in a different system in an effort to be different from the unresponsive Old Republic, thus why it is the "Hosnian system" that is destroyed in the movie, not Coruscant.

I also think that's why Poe has the seemingly odd reaction he does when he's first captured and shoved out of the transport ship at the start of the movie. He has a little "bug eyed" moment when he looked around and sees where he is. The First Order is, by treaty, not allowed to construct Star Destroyers and as far as anyone knows, they don't have any. It is possible that the one we see in the movie is the only one currently in existence (we only ever see one on screen as far as I remember).

thanks for this! The back story is interesting to read.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So The First Order is the Third Reich circa 1936?

I can live with that setup, I guess.

 

[Otis]

A guy I saw it with didn't like it because the new leads were "a black guy and a chick," and felt they were "ramming that stuff down his throat" and "ruining his childhood."

 

[mcintyre1]

Little more backstory from the Visual Dictionary, the hairy rat looking alien guy in the left of the shot as the Senate is blown up is Chancellor Lanever Villecham and the human who is the focus of the shot is Korr Sella, a commander with the Resistance serving as a liaison to the Senate. I could see them developing spin offs for characters like Korr Sella in the future to explain the rise of the First Order. I know they're working on something to bridge the gap between 3 and 4 (Rebel One?).

 

[NewlyRetired]

. I know they're working on something to bridge the gap between 3 and 4 (Rebel One?).

Rogue One

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3748528/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Very few character names are out yet but many think Jones will be playing Leia.

 

[dparker713]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

Just watched ROTJ the other day and I saw no such thing. You must be talking about the alternate reality where a bounty hunter missed Han from 4 feet

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

Just watched ROTJ the other day and I saw no such thing. You must be talking about the alternate reality where a bounty hunter missed Han from 4 feet

Well now that's a good point.

 

[NewlyRetired]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

Just watched ROTJ the other day and I saw no such thing.

The galaxy scenes were added in Lucas's special additions.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

Just watched ROTJ the other day and I saw no such thing.

The galaxy scenes were added in Lucas's special additions.

These do not count

 

[Bull Dozier]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

It's been almost 30 years since the fall of the Berlin wall. Remember the celebrations when that happened? Russia was on a certain path at that point and it seems to be moving in a particular direction. That was reversed without much difficulty. Now extrapolate that to a galactic scale.

 

[dparker713]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

Just watched ROTJ the other day and I saw no such thing.

The galaxy scenes were added in Lucas's special additions.

I'm well aware, hence the rest of that post you edited out.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

It's been almost 30 years since the fall of the Berlin wall. Remember the celebrations when that happened? Russia was on a certain path at that point and it seems to be moving in a particular direction. That was reversed without much difficulty. Now extrapolate that to a galactic scale.

Fair point but that's not the same as saying there was almost no government at all.

 

[Capella]

I read an interesting article last night saying Disney should dump the prequel trilogies and remake those. Just rip them out of canon and re-do the whole story.

That sounds awesome and insane at the same time.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

I read an interesting article last night saying Disney should dump the prequel trilogies and remake those. Just rip them out of canon and re-do the whole story.

That sounds awesome and insane at the same time.

Just imagine a proper Vader origin story

 

[Bull Dozier]

I read an interesting article last night saying Disney should dump the prequel trilogies and remake those. Just rip them out of canon and re-do the whole story.

That sounds awesome and insane at the same time.

I would fully endorse this idea.

 

[Slapdash]

Dufresne - for instance you complaining about the Han death is a ridiculous fanboy complaint. My wife who has only seen parts of the original trilogy gasped when he was killed, as did my whole theatre. You saying it was telegraphed is because you already knew he was going to die because you're too "inside".

You probably fit into less than 1% of the people watching this movie. They aren't going to change it just so some internet mark can be impressed with the out of nowhere death scene.

I suppose I've watched too many movies.The heroes split up. Ren sensed Han and baited him onto the bridge. I don't think you need Force powers to see how that plays out.

Yeah, this was pretty clearly telegraphed.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I read an interesting article last night saying Disney should dump the prequel trilogies and remake those. Just rip them out of canon and re-do the whole story.

That sounds awesome and insane at the same time.

Well, JJ is involved now so, a little time warp thing and it's all possible.

 

[Slapdash]

It sounds like the Republic was secretly supporting the Resistence. Not sure why that would have been necessary.

It would be a war by proxy.

So maybe there was some treaty where the systems that were occupied by the First Order were not technically a part of the Republic (along with other neutral self governed systems) and they agreed to let those systems be ruled outside of the Republic government. But there was a faction within the Republic that recognized that the First Order was gaining power and influence and doing something more. So the Resistence was formed with secret supplies and financing by the Republic to put them down?Kind of like that.

This is pretty much exactly it. They apparently flesh this out in the "Visual Dictionary" that was released along with the movie. It'd have been nice to get a bit more explanation in the movie, but at the same time I like movies that don't explain every little thing all the time through ham-handed dialogue because I feel like it generally hurts the narrativeto do so.

The New Republic arose from the Rebel Alliance after the Rebels defeated the remnants of the Empire at the Battle of Jakku about a year after the Battle of Yavin in 6 (that's why there's all of those giant ship skeletons on Jakku). The few remaining Empire loyalists fled to the Unknown Regions (an existing part of Star Wars lore from other stuff) and created the First Order as a successor state to the Empire.

The New Republic vowed not to repeat the errors of the Old Republic by having a large standing army that can be used to subvert control and signed a treaty with the First Order to limit fleet construction and disarm. Leia disagreed with this and argued that they should be arming up and destroying the First Order rather than letting them rebuild in the fringes of the galaxy, but the new Senate voted against this and labelled Leia a warmonger.

The Resistance arose through the efforts of Leia to build something to fight the First Order and is supported -- "off the books" -- by a significant part of the senate who provide money and materials through back channels. Thus the lines by Hucks and the First Order about the senate "lying" to the people, etc.

The senate also apparently rotates every few years to be hosted in a different system in an effort to be different from the unresponsive Old Republic, thus why it is the "Hosnian system" that is destroyed in the movie, not Coruscant.

I also think that's why Poe has the seemingly odd reaction he does when he's first captured and shoved out of the transport ship at the start of the movie. He has a little "bug eyed" moment when he looked around and sees where he is. The First Order is, by treaty, not allowed to construct Star Destroyers and as far as anyone knows, they don't have any. It is possible that the one we see in the movie is the only one currently in existence (we only ever see one on screen as far as I remember).

This certainly helps put the events of the movie into perspective. Although it is interesting how they are able to secretly construct something as massive as the Star Killer in secret if they are on the fringes.

 

[Bull Dozier]

But there was a reason for the Rebellion to exist.

And I cared when it was Luke in the X-Wing attacking the Death Star.

And there was a time when the Death Star was a new idea. But that was two planet killing buildings ago.

And Tarkin was cool and threatening. Hux is ridiculous.

I disagree that the SAME criticisms can all be levelled on the old movies.

you really think a rag tag bunch of rebels could initiate regime change throughout an entire galaxy by blowing up a space station? The United States can't even do it on a backwater desert country in the Middle East. Of course the republic is not strong enough to totally take over the galaxy and if they were portrayed as such people would be complaining about that.It's simple, the republic isn't that strong. They were able to gain hold of some planets, but not others. On the ones they didn't they are secretly financing the resistance to fight against the first order on their planets while the republic formally tries to establish law and order on the ones they control. They aren't strong enough to wage a full scale war against the first order which is militaristicly still stronger.

This is not complicated people.

Yes it is.This is 30 years after Endor.

i am sure the special forces ewok unit sent to Planet X was enough to maintain the republics dominance over the empire.

Did you miss the part at the end of ROTJ that shows an entire galaxy relieved that he Empire has ended? There was a Senate up until the Emperor dissolved it. It's reasonable to assume it was reconstituted quickly and certainly early in the 30 year interim.

It's been almost 30 years since the fall of the Berlin wall. Remember the celebrations when that happened? Russia was on a certain path at that point and it seems to be moving in a particular direction. That was reversed without much difficulty. Now extrapolate that to a galactic scale.

Fair point but that's not the same as saying there was almost no government at all.

Hmm, I guess I don't get your point, but its probably lost in the multitude of quotes.

 

[AcerFC]

I don't mind the prequels as much as some of you other guys. Thought 1 was the worst, but made better after watching commentary on DVD

That said, let JJ take a crack at it. Would love to see it done

 

[Capella]

How would they do that though? "Uhhhhhhh just forget those first 3 movies that grossed a couple of billion?"

 

[Bull Dozier]

How would they do that though? "Uhhhhhhh just forget those first 3 movies that grossed a couple of billion?"

Just like they do with superhero movies all the time?