STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

Star Trek Into Darkness was arguably better than Wrath of Khan, which Abrams also remade.

 

[Sinn Fein]

If you are ranking the films based on actual raw measures - 7 is the best. 7 probably has the best acting, and certainly the best special effects. The story, while not quite original, is pretty tight - which is pretty good considering the amount of ground they had to cover in a relatively short time.

But if you take into account film inflation, then IV is the best, by a significant margin. It was transformative, while VII is simply a very good movie, with familiar characters.

 

[Insein]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

Star Trek Into Darkness was arguably better than Wrath of Khan, which Abrams also remade.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

I need a lot more time to chew this over, and I've only seen VII once so I could change my mind, but I don't think you're way off base at all.

The main story in this movie is pretty weak. A map to Luke Skywalker, like he's some kind of X-marks-the-spot treasure? Come on. And it's pretty miraculous how these relatives keep running into one another in a very big galaxy.

But I think you're right that the characters are really good. Rey and Finn are solid, and I want to reiterate how much I liked Kylo Ren. All three of these main characters are still in development and have lots of room to grow, as opposed to somebody like Darth Vader or Princess Leia who was set in concrete in the first two movies. I am hugely supportive of the decision to show Kylo developing into a real sith lord (assuming that's where this is going) in tandem to Rey developing into a Jedi. That's good story-telling.

Also, the visuals in this movie were much better than anything in the original. Some of it was the ability to do more with high-quality CGI, so you could have x-wings soaring through forests and the Millennium Falcon bouncing around off the ground while trying to get airborne. Obviously this movie had a ton of CGI, but it looked real and not at all cartoonish like the prequels. The cinematography was also a lot more modern. I loved the brief shot of the tie-fighters against the sunset -- this movie seemed full of stuff like that. Even the forest scenes were like believable North American forests, not a magical fantasy forest like Endor.

I agree with you that this was an extremely well-done movie overall. It's kind of hard to judge it on its own merits since we can't forget the other six.

Edit: To pile on a little, Kylo Ren is what Anakin should have been. He's creepy and messed up and dark in a believable way.

 

[Thunderlips]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

I don't think it can top Empire.....but I think it's better than 4 and 6. Empire just nailed it and was the perfect second movie....can't go wrong with "I Love You - I Know", 16 seed Luke taking 1 seed Vader to the buzzer, "I'm your Father", "No..there is another" and the Hoth scene which still seems more epic than any of the battles of TFA.

Force Awakens brings three great characters/acting jobs into the fold....it's cinematography was miles ahead of Lucas' wipes and single camera shots and it nailed the nostalgia quota.....but the middle kind of dragged, they didn't explain some of the background well enough and the final ship battle wasn't better than either A New Hope or Return of the Jedi.

 

[sho nuff]

Well said IK.

 

[dparker713]

Even the forest scenes were like believable North American forests, not a magical fantasy forest like Endor.

Endor was filmed in the redwood forests of the west coast.

 

[PIK95]

Paid great homage to the old movies while standing on it's own. Definitely one I'll watch again. The Nazi symbolizm is back. Ford had a much bigger role than I thought. I really liked the pilot guy too, the rebel squadron leader, I forget his name. Chick was pretty to look at. I thought they accentuated her beauty in her "force awakening" scene against the homeliness of Kylo.

I just watched it so I'm just starting the thread. The symbolism was everywhere. Even those steps to God at the end. I liked the pilot alot and Harrison Ford was the highlight of the movie for me.

 

[Capella]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

I agree.

 

[packersfan]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

 

[Insein]

It may be blasphemy but my immediate reaction is this one should placed at the top of the order, even ahead of 4 and 5. Only drawback is the repetitive plot. Other things were done so well though like Rey and Finn story lines that the put the old movies a bit to shame.

I need a lot more time to chew this over, and I've only seen VII once so I could change my mind, but I don't think you're way off base at all.

The main story in this movie is pretty weak. A map to Luke Skywalker, like he's some kind of X-marks-the-spot treasure? Come on. And it's pretty miraculous how these relatives keep running into one another in a very big galaxy.

But I think you're right that the characters are really good. Rey and Finn are solid, and I want to reiterate how much I liked Kylo Ren. All three of these main characters are still in development and have lots of room to grow, as opposed to somebody like Darth Vader or Princess Leia who was set in concrete in the first two movies. I am hugely supportive of the decision to show Kylo developing into a real sith lord (assuming that's where this is going) in tandem to Rey developing into a Jedi. That's good story-telling.

Also, the visuals in this movie were much better than anything in the original. Some of it was the ability to do more with high-quality CGI, so you could have x-wings soaring through forests and the Millennium Falcon bouncing around off the ground while trying to get airborne. Obviously this movie had a ton of CGI, but it looked real and not at all cartoonish like the prequels. The cinematography was also a lot more modern. I loved the brief shot of the tie-fighters against the sunset -- this movie seemed full of stuff like that. Even the forest scenes were like believable North American forests, not a magical fantasy forest like Endor.

I agree with you that this was an extremely well-done movie overall. It's kind of hard to judge it on its own merits since we can't forget the other six.

Edit: To pile on a little, Kylo Ren is what Anakin should have been. He's creepy and messed up and dark in a believable way.

This is about where I'm at. I have gripes about the world building and nitpocking in scenes but the characters are good. The visuals are good. I hope they pick up the story for the next one.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also questioned "if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movie?"

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

 

[Insein]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

Somewhere after Empire he became all about the Benji's. Empire was "the worst" to him because he created the least amount of toy products and netted the lowest gross sales.

 

[packersfan]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.

I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

Somewhere after Empire he became all about the Benji's. Empire was "the worst" to him because he created the least amount of toy products and netted the lowest gross sales.

It was also the movie he was the least involved with of the 6 if memory serves. Their might be some latent jealousy involved because of that but yeah, the money was always the number 1 concern for him followed closely by using technology advances to make his movie.

 

[Insein]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

That scene was so money. The fact that he was so in tune with Solo at that point that he knew Han would never say I love you, just goes to show how awesome the character was. The stakes were so high in that movie emotionally and then the climax with "I am your father", now that is a scene I wish I saw in the theater. Sadly I wasn't even born yet. I cant imagine that reaction.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

That scene was so money. The fact that he was so in tune with Solo at that point that he knew Han would never say I love you, just goes to show how awesome the character was. The stakes were so high in that movie emotionally and then the climax with "I am your father", now that is a scene I wish I saw in the theater. Sadly I wasn't even born yet. I cant imagine that reaction.

and that was at a time when movie secrets could stay secrets for a long time even if a movie had been out for a while, which meant a lot of people got to experience the surprise.

Today, unless you cut yourself off from nearly everything online that relates to entertainment in any way, you are going to get spoilers.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This sums up exactly how I felt leaving the theater yesterday: "There's one thing I Totally Hate about The Force Awakens."

ETA: I liked the movie a lot.

 

[Guest]

Just saw this. Really loved the first act. The period from reintroducing Han to when Finn decides to leave and Rey tells him she won't let him is meh. I felt like these people knew each other for a day and didn't get the sense of earned comradery.

But damn if Rey isn't by far the best character ever in the franchise. I love the raw prodigy story. Even more so than Luke. All of her interactions with Kylo Ren are outstanding. Lots and lots of goosebumps.

Plot was hard to follow for me at times. Just okay, Bit characteristically Abrams knew where the heart was, and it's in the struggle between light and dark and the power of the Force. And he nailed that.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This sums up exactly how I felt leaving the theater yesterday:

"The one thing I hate about The Force Awakens."

When re-watching the series now, the final scene in Jedi takes on much more meaning due to this.

 

[Insein]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

Somewhere after Empire he became all about the Benji's. Empire was "the worst" to him because he created the least amount of toy products and netted the lowest gross sales.

It was also the movie he was he least involved with of the 6 if memory serves. Their might be some latent jealousy involved because of that but yeah, the money was always the number 1 concern for him followed closely by using technology advances to make his movie.

George created a really cool sandbox with a decent background to play with. The greatest thing about the prequels is how he established a much bigger galaxy that was affected by all the decisions the Senate made. We saw many different worlds and creatures. His failure was the story and the writing. If he had allowed some proof reading and editing by a third party that wasn't biased he may have been able to salvage the prequels overall.

 

[PIK95]

Although, when The Wire had all the "new" characters replace the "old" characters, it was pretty much accepted as greatness. Maybe this trilogy should be called "Star Wars: The Game Remains The Same."

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

This sums up exactly how I felt leaving the theater yesterday:

"The one thing I hate about The Force Awakens."

When re-watching the series now, the final scene in Jedi takes on much more meaning due to this.

I told my wife walking back to the car, "they didn't get their happily ever after after all." It all went to hell.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This sums up exactly how I felt leaving the theater yesterday:

"The one thing I hate about The Force Awakens."

When re-watching the series now, the final scene in Jedi takes on much more meaning due to this.

I told my wife walking back to the car, "they didn't get their happily ever after after all." It all went to hell.

I guess knowing Ford wanted Solo killed back in Jedi made me expect that this happy ending was never going to happen.

I suspect Ford only accepted this role once he knew the character was going to be killed off. Although I bet if push came to shove he enjoyed most of it (except for the broken leg/ankle part).

 

[packersfan]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

That scene was so money. The fact that he was so in tune with Solo at that point that he knew Han would never say I love you, just goes to show how awesome the character was. The stakes were so high in that movie emotionally and then the climax with "I am your father", now that is a scene I wish I saw in the theater. Sadly I wasn't even born yet. I cant imagine that reaction.

Ford seems like a bit of a surly dude but he was an amazing ad-libber. Not only did he come up with this but also Indy shooting the swordsman in Raiders and the great line later in that film when Karen Allen says he's not the man she remembered and Indy says "It's not the years, it's the mileage." Another Ford ad-lib and f'n brilliant.

 

[packersfan]

This sums up exactly how I felt leaving the theater yesterday:

"The one thing I hate about The Force Awakens."

When re-watching the series now, the final scene in Jedi takes on much more meaning due to this.

I told my wife walking back to the car, "they didn't get their happily ever after after all." It all went to hell.

I guess knowing Ford wanted Solo killed back in Jedi made me expect that this happy ending was never going to happen.

I suspect Ford only accepted this role once he knew the character was going to be killed off. Although I bet if push came to shove he enjoyed most of it (except for the broken leg/ankle part).

Similar to Leonard Nimoy with Wrath of Khan. He only came back because Spock would die but enjoyed making the film so much he wanted the character to come back. But yeah, if I had to guess I'd say there's about a 99.9% chance Ford only agreed to do the film when he was told the plan was for Han to die.

 

[Insein]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

That scene was so money. The fact that he was so in tune with Solo at that point that he knew Han would never say I love you, just goes to show how awesome the character was. The stakes were so high in that movie emotionally and then the climax with "I am your father", now that is a scene I wish I saw in the theater. Sadly I wasn't even born yet. I cant imagine that reaction.

and that was at a time when movie secrets could stay secrets for a long time even if a movie had been out for a while, which meant a lot of people got to experience the surprise.

Today, unless you cut yourself off from nearly everything online that relates to entertainment in any way, you are going to get spoilers.

But I read nothing about Solos death and didn't expect anything going in. I had a guess onenof the mains would die. I thought maybe Chewie or Han. So the moment he yelled Ben, I knew he was done. I didn't get that shocked feeling though. I am your father makes the viewer feeling exactly like Luke. I wish I got to experience it.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's not just the dying... it's the in-between years that we don't see. Misery all around.

 

[packersfan]

I didn't know Han would die going in but once it was revealed that Kylo was his son I knew there would have to be a confrontation. And if there was only one of them was going to survive it. Plus there was Ford's decades-long desire for Han to die that factored into everything too. So the shock of Han dying wasn't as powerful for me because I was expecting it. But yeah once he yelled Ben it would've been a complete surprise if he wasn't killed.

By the way, I think the Ben name reveal was one of the film's greatest moments.

Vader's reveal in Empire was an absolute mind-blower because it came out of nowhere and at that time there was no Internet or spoilers or things like that. Luke wasn't the only one who screamed. That was one of the greatest plot twists in film history - maybe the greatest - and it was due in large part to it coming by complete and total surprise. I'm not sure anyone could pull something like that off with a highly-anticipated film in this day and age.

 

[Insein]

It's not just the dying... it's the in-between years that we don't see. Misery all around.

Unfortunately we can only infer how that went. They don't really explain anything about it.

 

[packersfan]

Another thing about Empire is that it ended on a cliffhanger. You just didn't do that in movies at that time. Sure in the old days of serials you could but the next episode would be in a week or so not 3 years later. Ending Empire on a cliffhanger was one of the boldest moves a major film ever attempted and it absolutely worked. The build-up for Jedi was insane.

 

[Ladsud]

It's not just the dying... it's the in-between years that we don't see. Misery all around.

Unfortunately we can only infer how that went. They don't really explain anything about it.

Thats the problem with the movie I have. They explain nothing about anything at all that happens in the film.

 

[Insein]

It's not just the dying... it's the in-between years that we don't see. Misery all around.

Unfortunately we can only infer how that went. They don't really explain anything about it.

Thats the problem with the movie I have. They explain nothing about anything at all that happens in the film.

I mean that's my biggest complaint too. It feels like the whole thing takes place inside of one system. I don't get a galactic struggle kind of feel for what is happening. And the lack of explanation for the government setup bugs me to no end.

 

[packersfan]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

 

[Mario Kart]

You guys know "Vader" means father in German, right? The reveal at the end was not so mind blowing.

 

[moleculo]

You guys know "Vader" means father in German, right? The reveal at the end was not so mind blowing.

no, it doesn't. You are thinking of "Vater". it's close, but not the same.

 

[Ladsud]

Compare Luke and Rey. Which character did you have more sympathy for? Luke was pretty annoying for most of ANH. The Finn storyline as a PTSD storm trooper was really well done. He kind of played the reluctant hero role of Han in this one.

It probably does belong 3rd in the ranking but because this one is so new it gets alot if immediate love from me. Just really well done...again minus the repetitive nature. They could have done without the super death star.

Its hard to compare the two, we had some back story on Luke. He was living with his unlce and aunt stranded on a planet he hated and wanted to leave, we found out his father was betrayed and murdered by Vader during the clone wars in which his father was a great pilot and that Ben had trained his murderer.

There is no back story to Rey at all other than she is sitting on a planet waiting. Thats it.

 

[Insein]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

 

[Insein]

Compare Luke and Rey. Which character did you have more sympathy for? Luke was pretty annoying for most of ANH. The Finn storyline as a PTSD storm trooper was really well done. He kind of played the reluctant hero role of Han in this one.

It probably does belong 3rd in the ranking but because this one is so new it gets alot if immediate love from me. Just really well done...again minus the repetitive nature. They could have done without the super death star.

Ultra Megadeth Star

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I find all the scenes with General Organa weak, in lack of a better word.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Just saw this. Really loved the first act. The period from reintroducing Han to when Finn decides to leave and Rey tells him she won't let him is meh. I felt like these people knew each other for a day and didn't get the sense of earned comradery.

But damn if Rey isn't by far the best character ever in the franchise. I love the raw prodigy story. Even more so than Luke. All of her interactions with Kylo Ren are outstanding. Lots and lots of goosebumps.

Plot was hard to follow for me at times. Just okay, Bit characteristically Abrams knew where the heart was, and it's in the struggle between light and dark and the power of the Force. And he nailed that.

Yes, I like that Rey is not another "Karate Kid" in Jedi training.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

Yes, if there's one thing the prequels taught us, it's that audiences can't get enough explanation of the political situation. More Galactic Senate scenes!

 

[Ladsud]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

Yes, if there's one thing the prequels taught us, it's that audiences can't get enough explanation of the political situation. More Galactic Senate scenes!

I dont want extensive, in depth political back stories either. But something other than The Empire is back for some reason and this time they have an even bigger death star! Think all you tough good guys made any difference at all blowing up the first two? HA

 

[beef]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

Yes, if there's one thing the prequels taught us, it's that audiences can't get enough explanation of the political situation. More Galactic Senate scenes!

maybe a few debates on real illegals aliens too.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Compare Luke and Rey. Which character did you have more sympathy for? Luke was pretty annoying for most of ANH. The Finn storyline as a PTSD storm trooper was really well done. He kind of played the reluctant hero role of Han in this one.

It probably does belong 3rd in the ranking but because this one is so new it gets alot if immediate love from me. Just really well done...again minus the repetitive nature. They could have done without the super death star.

Its hard to compare the two, we had some back story on Luke. He was living with his unlce and aunt stranded on a planet he hated and wanted to leave, we found out his father was betrayed and murdered by Vader during the clone wars in which his father was a great pilot and that Ben had trained his murderer.

There is no back story to Rey at all other than she is sitting on a planet waiting. Thats it.

Luke is the original Harry Potter.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Empire is one of the finest films ever made. It's a nearly perfect piece of writing in my opinion. In terms of film sequels the only one ever made that's better in my opinion is Godfather 2.

while many/most would agree with you, it is beyond ironic that George Lucas thinks it is the worst film

I have seen him say "people say it is the best but it is the worst of the movies"

He has also question if people loved it so much, why did it do the worst at the box office of all his movies.

In his warped mind, he fixed the problems in Empire by creating teddy bears that kids would love.

That says a lot about Lucas and explains how he could've lost his way so badly with the prequels.I will say I was never bothered by the Ewoks,

Again, talking only about the story I think Empire is perfect storytelling. From start to finish it is absolutely brilliant in the story being told and the way it is told. So many people had hands in this screenplay it's pretty tough to know who all wrote what specifically but the finished story is epic. Even Harrison Ford has to be credited since his iconic "I know" ad-lib after Leia's "I love you" was absolutely brilliant too.

What got Lucas in trouble, e.g. Ewoks and Jar Jar, was he thought he was making movies for little kids.

 

[Ladsud]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

Yes, if there's one thing the prequels taught us, it's that audiences can't get enough explanation of the political situation. More Galactic Senate scenes!

Even the opening crawl giving us a two paragraph explanation of what is going on might have been enough. Instead they give nothing.

 

[Insein]

I find all the scenes with General Organa weak, in lack of a better word.

I find the fact that she's a general a bit depressing. She was a senator. Shouldn't she be helping establish the new Republic? She should be chancellor or something.

 

[Insein]

I don't care about the government aspect of all this. There's good guys and bad guys. That's enough for me.

If this is the first movie ever called Star Wars, cool. It isn't. I want to know where the hell we are in the galaxy and why I should care about what's happening. It's not enough for me to say good guys yay, bad guys boo.

Yes, if there's one thing the prequels taught us, it's that audiences can't get enough explanation of the political situation. More Galactic Senate scenes!

And you're exactly why they have NONE in this movie. People act like politics were not in Star Wars. Episode 4 has a whole scene with the Imperical governors meeting to discuss... :gasp: politics. We hear the discussion of how it will look in the Senate that Leia has been detained. We see that the Senate has been dissolved by the Emperor. We have a discussion on how the governors will keep their control without the bureaucracy. In that one 5 minute scene, we established that the Empire is in charge and they run the show. The rebellion is just a small faction trying to fight against impossible odds. Done. No long senate hearings on Trade law. No emergency meetings on whether a clone army should be established. Just politics to establish the state of the galaxy all nice and neat.

This movie gives us squat. A new republic has been formed but we only know it's on a no name planet by the bad guys right before they blow it up. And how powerful is this new republic if they have a resistance that resists the supposedly defeated Empire? Why don't they have an an established navy and army? Wouldn't it make sense to get that set up since the empire probably isn't going to go away without a fight. We have no clue. We get nothing explaining anything. The whole movie takes place in what feels like one system where everything happens. Aside from Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke, nothing resembles the Star Wars galaxy as far as the landscape. This could be just an alternate dimension where a different set of events take place and we're watching that story for as much as they give us.

 

[mcintyre1]

Alright, after seeing it again tonight, I'm now certain that Rey is Luke's kid for a few a couple reasons.

First, I noticed that there are two distinct times in the movie where the scene ends right as you could expect Han to say something revealing about Rey's identity, implying that Han knows exactly who she is. The obvious one is when Maz asks "Who's the girl?" and they cut away. The second time that I didn't appreciate before was right after Leia first appears and Han says that he saw their son. The natural continuation of that conversation would be "and she took Rey", but the scene cuts before Rey is mentioned. Later, when Finn grabs Poe and they run to tell Leia that the First Order has Rey, Leia cuts him off to tell him that Han already told her "about the girl." Could be nothing, but that feels deliberate to me, given all of the other allusions to her parentage.

Second, there are two distinct times in the movie when the classic "The Force Theme" plays and they are both directly associated with Rey on the screen. I'm tired and can't remember when the first happened, but it was definitely a Rey moment, but the second time is right after Rey pulls the lightsaber to her. Admittedly, that theme is used in every Star Wars movie for various things, but the iconic association for the music is when Luke is staring off into the sunset in A New Hope.

Another one that I forgot, but is kind of a stretch anyways. Aside from the referenced lackeys who died getting those beasts onto the freighter for Han and Chewie, we know them to only work alone. We've seen only two exceptions to this: when Han tries to offer Luke a job with him and to not attack the Death Star, and when Han tries to get Rey to stay with them. I think he knows that Rey is his niece and wants to keep her under watch now that he's found her after all those years.