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STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (1 Viewer)

Saw it the other day. Thought it was pretty good. My dad and I were talking about it how Rey could keep up with Kylo after leaving the movie, but apparently I completely forgot that he had gotten shot. Thinking back on it, they definitely were trying to point out how badly he was hurt, but during the viewing, it was lost on me. I just explained it as he wasn't trying to kill her at all. He was trying to keep her alive so that he could train her.

I thought the Jedi Mind Trick with the stormtrooper was cheesy, but whatever.

Definitely felt like A New Hope 2.0, but I enjoyed it. I think it's setting up for Kylo to go confront Luke and Rey while she's training, since he saw a bit of where Luke was.

Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
I read an interesting theory about that and Rey's force vision in the movie. The person speculated that Rey's force vision when she touched Luke's lightsaber was an example of a force power called psychometry, which basically allows you to see the history of people and events associated with an object just by touching it. If that is true, perhaps Kylo had a similar experience when he first touched Vader's mask, where it showed him the history of Anakin as Sith lord and the "power of the dark side."
There seems to be only one Jedi who has ever used this skill in the books or shows. Quinlan Vos. It seemed to be more hereditary than learned though. He does have a very minor appearance in Phantom Menace and extended storylines in The Clone Wars show and several books with he and Ventress hunting down Dooku.

So while possible, it would be awfully convenient for two fledgling force users to somehow have this trait unless they were descendents of Vos'.

 
Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
It doesn't make sense for him to worship his grandfather. Anakin shows up at the end of Jedi as a ghost so once he saw Kylo admiring Darth Vader he would have appeared to him and say "Uh, in case no one told you before, I turned back to the good side and I'm the one who brought down the Empire."
Yah, that was my thought as well. Why is he asking Vader to "show him the power of the darkside" when Vader himself rejected it at the end. Just didn't make sense and was hoping someone with better StarWars knowledge could explain it to me.
The simplest explanation is that Snoke lied to him and told him Vader was the most powerful Sith ever except he was seduced by the light at the end which was his undoing. Then the evil Sith Lord Vader ceased to exist and only Anakin remained. He was more man than machine. Compassionate and good.

 
Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
It doesn't make sense for him to worship his grandfather. Anakin shows up at the end of Jedi as a ghost so once he saw Kylo admiring Darth Vader he would have appeared to him and say "Uh, in case no one told you before, I turned back to the good side and I'm the one who brought down the Empire."
Yah, that was my thought as well. Why is he asking Vader to "show him the power of the darkside" when Vader himself rejected it at the end. Just didn't make sense and was hoping someone with better StarWars knowledge could explain it to me.
The simplest explanation is that Snoke lied to him and told him Vader was the most powerful Sith ever except he was seduced by the light at the end which was his undoing. Then the evil Sith Lord Vader ceased to exist and only Anakin remained. He was more man than machine. Compassionate and good.
Yeah, it isn't a well used skill and in the canon source (Clone Wars) it is definitely implied to be largely hereditary, so I think this theory will amount to little. In the expanded universe it was more widely used and, I believe, explicitly used by Luke to find where Shmi had been killed on Tatooine or something like that.

 
Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
It doesn't make sense for him to worship his grandfather. Anakin shows up at the end of Jedi as a ghost so once he saw Kylo admiring Darth Vader he would have appeared to him and say "Uh, in case no one told you before, I turned back to the good side and I'm the one who brought down the Empire."
Yah, that was my thought as well. Why is he asking Vader to "show him the power of the darkside" when Vader himself rejected it at the end. Just didn't make sense and was hoping someone with better StarWars knowledge could explain it to me.
Luke was the only witness. Fairly easy to claim he was lying.
 
Saw it the other day. Thought it was pretty good. My dad and I were talking about it how Rey could keep up with Kylo after leaving the movie, but apparently I completely forgot that he had gotten shot. Thinking back on it, they definitely were trying to point out how badly he was hurt, but during the viewing, it was lost on me. I just explained it as he wasn't trying to kill her at all. He was trying to keep her alive so that he could train her.

I thought the Jedi Mind Trick with the stormtrooper was cheesy, but whatever.

Definitely felt like A New Hope 2.0, but I enjoyed it. I think it's setting up for Kylo to go confront Luke and Rey while she's training, since he saw a bit of where Luke was.

Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
I read an interesting theory about that and Rey's force vision in the movie. The person speculated that Rey's force vision when she touched Luke's lightsaber was an example of a force power called psychometry, which basically allows you to see the history of people and events associated with an object just by touching it. If that is true, perhaps Kylo had a similar experience when he first touched Vader's mask, where it showed him the history of Anakin as Sith lord and the "power of the dark side."
There seems to be only one Jedi who has ever used this skill in the books or shows. Quinlan Vos. It seemed to be more hereditary than learned though. He does have a very minor appearance in Phantom Menace and extended storylines in The Clone Wars show and several books with he and Ventress hunting down Dooku.

So while possible, it would be awfully convenient for two fledgling force users to somehow have this trait unless they were descendents of Vos'.
Doesnt every "user" of the force ever have visions?

 
Saw it the other day. Thought it was pretty good. My dad and I were talking about it how Rey could keep up with Kylo after leaving the movie, but apparently I completely forgot that he had gotten shot. Thinking back on it, they definitely were trying to point out how badly he was hurt, but during the viewing, it was lost on me. I just explained it as he wasn't trying to kill her at all. He was trying to keep her alive so that he could train her.

I thought the Jedi Mind Trick with the stormtrooper was cheesy, but whatever.

Definitely felt like A New Hope 2.0, but I enjoyed it. I think it's setting up for Kylo to go confront Luke and Rey while she's training, since he saw a bit of where Luke was.

Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
I read an interesting theory about that and Rey's force vision in the movie. The person speculated that Rey's force vision when she touched Luke's lightsaber was an example of a force power called psychometry, which basically allows you to see the history of people and events associated with an object just by touching it. If that is true, perhaps Kylo had a similar experience when he first touched Vader's mask, where it showed him the history of Anakin as Sith lord and the "power of the dark side."
There seems to be only one Jedi who has ever used this skill in the books or shows. Quinlan Vos. It seemed to be more hereditary than learned though. He does have a very minor appearance in Phantom Menace and extended storylines in The Clone Wars show and several books with he and Ventress hunting down Dooku.So while possible, it would be awfully convenient for two fledgling force users to somehow have this trait unless they were descendents of Vos'.
Doesnt every "user" of the force ever have visions?
Visions are different than what this is showing. Visions usually involve something personal. We see some of that in Rey's vision but we also see a lot of scenes from another POV. That would be more in line with this psychometry where a memory is imprinted on an object and someone with the genetic trait and proper force enhancement can watch it like a recorded video message.

 
I started Star Wars Rebels last night and it is off to a nice start. This is a great time period between 3 and 4
Only caught a couple of episodes. It's decent. Same quality as Clone Wars writing wise so it doesn't go too deep to make sure they don't lose the audience. Still nice material filler for that era.

 
Saw it the other day. Thought it was pretty good. My dad and I were talking about it how Rey could keep up with Kylo after leaving the movie, but apparently I completely forgot that he had gotten shot. Thinking back on it, they definitely were trying to point out how badly he was hurt, but during the viewing, it was lost on me. I just explained it as he wasn't trying to kill her at all. He was trying to keep her alive so that he could train her.

I thought the Jedi Mind Trick with the stormtrooper was cheesy, but whatever.

Definitely felt like A New Hope 2.0, but I enjoyed it. I think it's setting up for Kylo to go confront Luke and Rey while she's training, since he saw a bit of where Luke was.

Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
I read an interesting theory about that and Rey's force vision in the movie. The person speculated that Rey's force vision when she touched Luke's lightsaber was an example of a force power called psychometry, which basically allows you to see the history of people and events associated with an object just by touching it. If that is true, perhaps Kylo had a similar experience when he first touched Vader's mask, where it showed him the history of Anakin as Sith lord and the "power of the dark side."
There seems to be only one Jedi who has ever used this skill in the books or shows. Quinlan Vos. It seemed to be more hereditary than learned though. He does have a very minor appearance in Phantom Menace and extended storylines in The Clone Wars show and several books with he and Ventress hunting down Dooku.So while possible, it would be awfully convenient for two fledgling force users to somehow have this trait unless they were descendents of Vos'.
Doesnt every "user" of the force ever have visions?
Visions are different than what this is showing. Visions usually involve something personal. We see some of that in Rey's vision but we also see a lot of scenes from another POV. That would be more in line with this psychometry where a memory is imprinted on an object and someone with the genetic trait and proper force enhancement can watch it like a recorded video message.
Isn't an easier explanation that Kylo is a little nuts? He doesn't give the impression of being the most stable person in the galaxy. Plus, he's been corrupted by Snoke for a long time, apparently getting him to go against his basic nature, which seems to keep trying to rise up as the call of the Light-side.

 
Not reading 58 pages, but if someone hasn't already said it:

I'm excited for Serkis/Supreme Leader to fight Gollum/Planet of the Apes style with a light saber. Let's make this happen.

 
Saw it the other day. Thought it was pretty good. My dad and I were talking about it how Rey could keep up with Kylo after leaving the movie, but apparently I completely forgot that he had gotten shot. Thinking back on it, they definitely were trying to point out how badly he was hurt, but during the viewing, it was lost on me. I just explained it as he wasn't trying to kill her at all. He was trying to keep her alive so that he could train her.

I thought the Jedi Mind Trick with the stormtrooper was cheesy, but whatever.

Definitely felt like A New Hope 2.0, but I enjoyed it. I think it's setting up for Kylo to go confront Luke and Rey while she's training, since he saw a bit of where Luke was.

Who the hell was the giant supreme leader guy?? I'm really hoping they do a good job explaining why Kylo went to the dark side. Didn't Vader turn "good" at the end of RoJ? It's been awhile, so I'm not 100% sure. But in TFA Kylo says something about showing him the power of the dark side grandfather when looking at Vader's busted mask. Curious how that transition is going to play out.
I read an interesting theory about that and Rey's force vision in the movie. The person speculated that Rey's force vision when she touched Luke's lightsaber was an example of a force power called psychometry, which basically allows you to see the history of people and events associated with an object just by touching it. If that is true, perhaps Kylo had a similar experience when he first touched Vader's mask, where it showed him the history of Anakin as Sith lord and the "power of the dark side."
There seems to be only one Jedi who has ever used this skill in the books or shows. Quinlan Vos. It seemed to be more hereditary than learned though. He does have a very minor appearance in Phantom Menace and extended storylines in The Clone Wars show and several books with he and Ventress hunting down Dooku.So while possible, it would be awfully convenient for two fledgling force users to somehow have this trait unless they were descendents of Vos'.
Doesnt every "user" of the force ever have visions?
Visions are different than what this is showing. Visions usually involve something personal. We see some of that in Rey's vision but we also see a lot of scenes from another POV. That would be more in line with this psychometry where a memory is imprinted on an object and someone with the genetic trait and proper force enhancement can watch it like a recorded video message.
Isn't an easier explanation that Kylo is a little nuts? He doesn't give the impression of being the most stable person in the galaxy. Plus, he's been corrupted by Snoke for a long time, apparently getting him to go against his basic nature, which seems to keep trying to rise up as the call of the Light-side.
I agree. I was just extrapolating from the other idea thrown out there.

Kylo is crazy. That much is clear.

 
A New Hope rewritten to make Luke as awesome as Rey:

*Luke is an expert survivalist living on his own in Tatooine. He isn't subservient to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. He loyally waits for a lost companion to return.

*Luke steals R2-D2 from a Tusken Raider on a Bantha who has captured R2-D2. The Tusken just watches and rides away.

*Luke can understand everything R2-D2 says. C-3PO is written out since he's not needed to translate.

*R2-D2 follows Luke around obediently instead of running away and generally just thinks Luke's awesome.

*Luke meets Obi-Wan and tells him he's just a nobody and didn't even know the Force was real. Obi-Wan hands Luke his father's saber and then disappears from the movie. No training required.

*Luke experiences a "vision" upon touching the saber for unexplained reasons. Magic lightsaber?

*Luke enters the Cantina and knocks down Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan with a stick when they threaten him.

*Luke finds the Falcon with only Chewie inside as TIE Fighters start bombing the area. He jumps in and flies it with some wild maneuvers through Beggar's Canyon while Chewie works the gun port. They destroy the TIEs and return to get Han.

*Chewie is injured while running from Stormtroopers to get to the Falcon and Luke takes over as co-pilot.

*Luke fixes the Falcon's malfunctions by himself before Han can figure out what to do.

*Han is so impressed with Luke that by the time they get to the remains of Alderaan, he offers Luke a permanent job.

*They sneak into the back door of the Death Star unnoticed and somehow instantly find Leia's cell.

*Luke uses the Jedi Mind Trick on the guards at Leia's cell to get inside. (First time the Jedi Mind Trick appears in the movie.)

*Leia says Luke is amazing, thanks him and won't stop talking about wanting to run away with him and devote herself to helping him. Luke is not interested and says he just wants to be friends.

*Han somehow instantly finds the head Stormtrooper Commander and says he'll kill him if he doesn't shut down the tractor beam. The Stormtrooper Commander complies and they throw him in the trash compactor.

*Darth Vader finds the heroes. Luke watches as Han Solo confronts Darth Vader and is killed.

*Luke attacks Darth Vader and holds his own. He drops his saber but he is able to Force grab it before Vader can. (First time Force grab is seen in the movie.) Vader offers to train Luke. Luke lands several blows on Vader and cuts off his hand while remaining unscathed and Vader collapses in a heap. But there is an explosion that ruptures the platform between them and Luke must join Leia, Chewie and R2 back on the Falcon.

*Meanwhile, Wedge leads a small squad to do a bombing run on the Death Star. He easily hits the target without facing much resistance or even thinking about it much and the Death Star blows up.

*Luke officially joins the Rebellion at the end of the movie and is instantly selected to pilot a ship on a vital mission they've been waiting years to do. Their best pilot who just blew up the Death Star, Wedge, is passed over.

And there you have it. Star Wars: A New Hope as bland, generic, shallow, Saturday morning cartoon space opera, without depth, meaning, humanity, heart or soul, a.k.a. Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

*PERMANENT LINKS:

Retweet:

https://twitter.com/JediJones77/status/682269672000086023

Wordpress link:

https://jedijones77.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/if-luke-was-rey-a-k-a-the-star-wars-a-new-hope-mary-sue-rewrite/

 
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Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.
What's the difference between that and posting positive stuff about something you like?

Should every thread be like The Chris Farley Show? http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-chris-farley-show-mccartney/2868143
I'm not a Chris Farley fan. Being an obnoxious fat slob does not equal comedy to me. There, that's about all I have to say on the topic. I've made my opinion clear and concise.

If I come back to the thread 100 more times, giving a different version on why I dislike Chris Farley with.....

Ahhhh... Never mind. I see what's going on. I can only assume hang 10 is one of you're trolling buddies and you're just along for the ride.

Funny. :mellow:

 
Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.
What's the difference between that and posting positive stuff about something you like?

Should every thread be like The Chris Farley Show? http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-chris-farley-show-mccartney/2868143
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed whom...

 
Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.
What's the difference between that and posting positive stuff about something you like?

Should every thread be like The Chris Farley Show? http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-chris-farley-show-mccartney/2868143
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed whom...
He should have started with, "First off, how are you?"

 
Why did that scrap dealer on Not Tatooine leave his spaceship keys in his unlocked Millennium Falcon?
Why did he offer Rey 60 portions for BB-8 and then 5 seconds later radio someone to just steal it from her?
He may have known her since she was 5 and known she was a pretty tough gal. To him 60 portions is nothing. If he can get it without possibly losing a supplier and risking a henchman, why not try first?

 
And there you have it. Star Wars: A New Hope as bland, generic, shallow, Saturday morning cartoon space opera, without depth, meaning, humanity, heart or soul, a.k.a. Star Wars: The Force Awakens
You realize that if Rey had been as whiny and entitled as Luke you'd have hated the movie even more, right?

 
parasaurolophus said:
Scoresman said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Why did that scrap dealer on Not Tatooine leave his spaceship keys in his unlocked Millennium Falcon?
Why did he offer Rey 60 portions for BB-8 and then 5 seconds later radio someone to just steal it from her?
He may have known her since she was 5 and known she was a pretty tough gal. To him 60 portions is nothing. If he can get it without possibly losing a supplier and risking a henchman, why not try first?
Maybe he wanted the droid at all costs, but was perfectly happy to pay for him. Only when she made it clear that she wouldn't sell him did he decide to have his guys steal him.

 
Outstanding. Like a million nerds cried out at once and were suddenly sated.

Such a fine balance between what we all wanted all along - since empire really - and a big bid to nostalgia without detracting from the story. Predictable in the best possible way, loved every minute of it. Can't wait to see out in imax, 3D, whatever. I'll definitely be back. Might be the second best SW movie after ANH (imo).

Loved the death scene even though it was totally telegraphed.
Took my son to see it in an Imax experience 3d with loungers. Amazing experience. Highly recommend it.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.
I would agree if it was just a stand alone movie. However it's an episode of a saga.

So your complaint is like saying I can't go in the Fargo thread and complain about the episode with the UFOs despite loving the rest of the series.

 
JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)

 
JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)
I agree with you on Adam Driver. I can't stand him. Kylo seemed a much better character when he had his helmet on.

I also think it was weird that at the beginning he's able to not only stop a blaster bolt in mid-air, but then hold it there without the need to concentrate on it. You almost forget that it's still hanging there until he lets it go. Vader only ever showed the ability to absorb blaster fire.

That said, it's a bit surprising that Chewie was able to shoot him later on.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Just ignore him. Anybody who returns to a thread about a movie they hated is just trolling, plain and simple.

You've got to be a pretty big loser to get a stiffy from posting negative stuff about something you admittedly dislike.
I would agree if it was just a stand alone movie. However it's an episode of a saga.

So your complaint is like saying I can't go in the Fargo thread and complain about the episode with the UFOs despite loving the rest of the series.
I agree with you.

However I do find it ironic that you said this when many of the complaints in the movie stem from the fact that people want all the answers in this one part of the saga instead of waiting to see, for one example, why Rey was so powerful so fast.

 
JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)
I get that she has zero training, but Luke has a two minute lesson in 4, and a couple of days in 5. It might be jarring, but I don't think it's all that inconsistent compared to the original trilogy.

 
JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)
But, he really didn't if you look back at those instances. Obi Wan had maybe a week with Luke before he died and Luke didn't even really believe in the Force until after Obi Wan's death. He spent maybe a couple of weeks with Yoda before he left to go save his friends (which Yoda warned him not to do, as he wasn't anywhere near ready), and they didn't reunite until his death bed scene in ROTJ.

As for Rey's mind trick, it didn't bother me very much for a couple of reasons. First, I don't think that mind tricking is a particularly difficult skill for most Jedi. In Clone Wars and throughout the movies we see Jedi do it all the time, including Padawans. Second, her reaction to hearing the name Luke Skywalker on the Falcon with Han implies to me that there is a wealth of legend regarding Luke and the Jedi in the universe, and it isn't a difficult stretch for me to believe that Rey might have heard stories about Jedi being able to do mind tricks to get out of bad situations. We also have it drilled into us repeatedly in the universe that power in the Force often comes from belief, rather than rote skill. It takes Rey three tries to mind trick the trooper, and one could argue that it only does work after she is confident that it will.

As for Kylo Ren, it seems to me that a lot of the complaints people have for him are inherently comparing him to Vader, which I think they make very clear isn't a proper comparison. Kylo is not as respected as Vader was among the wider Empire/First Order, is clearly not in control of his emotions, and clearly isn't fully trained in the ways of the dark side. This character is not Vader and isn't supposed to be. If anything, he's proto-Vader. We're getting to see true character growth for the villain, rather than having a fully formed and established evil that doesn't really change much until the very end of the story arc. I can understand why some people might not like that, but I personally don't have a problem with it. I have a feeling that we'll see a lot of changes to Kylo's character throughout the trilogy.

 
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JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)
I get that she has zero training, but Luke has a two minute lesson in 4, and a couple of days in 5. It might be jarring, but I don't think it's all that inconsistent compared to the original trilogy.
In 4, Luke had some off-screen training. And there were years between 4 and 5 when Ben continued to train him (explicitly in the EU which I know are no longer cannon, but it can be inferred from the ending of 4).

 
This is going back 30 years but I never quite understood why Obi-wan allows himself to get killed. It wasn't as if doing that allowed Luke to escape any more than if he had not.. it actually would have made more sense for him to keep fighting Vader for as long as it took Luke to escape..

 
This is going back 30 years but I never quite understood why Obi-wan allows himself to get killed. It wasn't as if doing that allowed Luke to escape any more than if he had not.. it actually would have made more sense for him to keep fighting Vader for as long as it took Luke to escape..
It was meant to show Luke that he had absolute faith in the force and to paint Vader as the enemy he needs to beat. Plus he already had an idea that the force ghost thing would work. So he became more powerful and motivated Luke to confront Vader.

 
It's weird that people can't accept Adam Driver but could then buy into a young Mark Hammill.
I'm not sure I understand this. I don't like Adam Driver as an actor. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. Probably because the first thing I saw him in was Girls. I didn't say he didn't do a good job in the Star Wars movie. But I'm never going to be able to think of him as a badass.

On the other hand, I was a kid when I saw the first Star Wars, and I had no opinion about Mark Hamill. I didn't have any problem believing he was a naive yokel who thought he knew more than he did. I don't think I would have bought him as a badass in the original trilogy, either, but that's not what he was playing. Even in Jedi, he was still unsure of himself and thought he knew more than he did. Hell, when he claims that he is a Jedi on Dagobah, Yoda practically laughs in his face, despite dying at the time.

 
This is going back 30 years but I never quite understood why Obi-wan allows himself to get killed. It wasn't as if doing that allowed Luke to escape any more than if he had not.. it actually would have made more sense for him to keep fighting Vader for as long as it took Luke to escape..
It was meant to show Luke that he had absolute faith in the force and to paint Vader as the enemy he needs to beat. Plus he already had an idea that the force ghost thing would work. So he became more powerful and motivated Luke to confront Vader.
Also, if he had continued to fight, Luke would not have tried to escape. He would've come to try and help him and surely gotten killed himself, thus ending the new hope that he represented.

 
I think the training time for Luke in Empire is months, travel time for the Falcon from the Hoth system to Bespian has to be months at least without a functioning hyper drive.

On another note I think Rey is more along the lines of being closer related to Anakin then being child of Han and Liea or Luke and random space babe. I think this is the source of Luke's incredulous look.

 
It's weird that people can't accept Adam Driver but could then buy into a young Mark Hammill.
I'm not sure I understand this. I don't like Adam Driver as an actor. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. Probably because the first thing I saw him in was Girls. I didn't say he didn't do a good job in the Star Wars movie. But I'm never going to be able to think of him as a badass.On the other hand, I was a kid when I saw the first Star Wars, and I had no opinion about Mark Hamill. I didn't have any problem believing he was a naive yokel who thought he knew more than he did. I don't think I would have bought him as a badass in the original trilogy, either, but that's not what he was playing. Even in Jedi, he was still unsure of himself and thought he knew more than he did. Hell, when he claims that he is a Jedi on Dagobah, Yoda practically laughs in his face, despite dying at the time.
My point is both actors are kind of weiner-looking guys but it doesn't matter because you don't have to look like the Rock to pull off a bad-### role in this movie universe.

 
I think the training time for Luke in Empire is months, travel time for the Falcon from the Hoth system to Bespian has to be months at least without a functioning hyper drive.

On another note I think Rey is more along the lines of being closer related to Anakin then being child of Han and Liea or Luke and random space babe. I think this is the source of Luke's incredulous look.
While the movie doesn't really answer this for us, the consensus from nerds with more time than I have is that the journey took "several weeks"

 
JJ played it safe with this movie, and I don't blame him. He came into this thing with a list of things he had to do and he checked them off one by one. As long as it didn't suck outright like the Phantom Menace, it was going to be embraced by the community at large (and make a crap load of money).

I went all-in on Phantom Menace. Walked into the theater like I just pushed all my chips into the middle of the table with a grin from ear to ear. I walked out of that showing in stunned silence, and I think that memory kept me from fully getting into this one. I wasn't going to let that Phantom Menace experience happen again, so I don't think I totally embraced this one on it's own merits.

Rey and Fin were good, also don't have a problem with Oscar Isaacs rolling into the "next Han" role. But the casting of Adam Driver as the whiny emo Sith Lord was a big mistake. As soon as he took off the helmet I never bought him as a bad-### from that point forward. I get all of the outside reasons they cast him, but his performance had a 'Shia LeBouf-iness' to it. A small flashback scene might have also added some drama to the scene on the bridge with Han. It felt kind of flat to me, and it shouldn't have. That was supposed to be the bridge (nudge nudge wink wink) from the old series to the new, the teary-eyed goodbye to our hero Han Solo...and it never gripped me that way.

Seeing Greg Grunberg on the screen made me wish for Jar Jar. That guy is the worst actor on the planet. Thankfully, his role was small, but this makes me a tiny bit nervous that he's going to have a bigger role going forward.

What worked:

Han Solo (Ford was locked in and some great one liners "trash compactor?")

Chewie (just small things like his expression when the hologram chess set is activated)

Han and Chewie interaction ("oh, YOU'RE cold?")

BB-8

Set design

Fin

Seeing the Falcon again

New Sith Lord powers

Big Giant Snoke hologram

What didn't work:

- Characters that don't earn their expertise. We bought that Luke was good because he trained with Yoda and Obi-Wan for a while. These characters were masters from minute one, and are able to draw on talents like "these aren't the droids you're looking for" without any training whatsoever. (I did buy that Rey knew about how ships work since she's been 'working on them' her whole life).

- Kylo Ren in the second half of the movie (first half - able to stop a laser bolt in mid-air? you have my attention)
But, he really didn't if you look back at those instances. Obi Wan had maybe a week with Luke before he died and Luke didn't even really believe in the Force until after Obi Wan's death. He spent maybe a couple of weeks with Yoda before he left to go save his friends (which Yoda warned him not to do, as he wasn't anywhere near ready), and they didn't reunite until his death bed scene in ROTJ.

As for Rey's mind trick, it didn't bother me very much for a couple of reasons. First, I don't think that mind tricking is a particularly difficult skill for most Jedi. In Clone Wars and throughout the movies we see Jedi do it all the time, including Padawans. Second, her reaction to hearing the name Luke Skywalker on the Falcon with Han implies to me that there is a wealth of legend regarding Luke and the Jedi in the universe, and it isn't a difficult stretch for me to believe that Rey might have heard stories about Jedi being able to do mind tricks to get out of bad situations. We also have it drilled into us repeatedly in the universe that power in the Force often comes from belief, rather than rote skill. It takes Rey three tries to mind trick the trooper, and one could argue that it only does work after she is confident that it will.

As for Kylo Ren, it seems to me that a lot of the complaints people have for him are inherently comparing him to Vader, which I think they make very clear isn't a proper comparison. Kylo is not as respected as Vader was among the wider Empire/First Order, is clearly not in control of his emotions, and clearly isn't fully trained in the ways of the dark side. This character is not Vader and isn't supposed to be. If anything, he's proto-Vader. We're getting to see true character growth for the villain, rather than having a fully formed and established evil that doesn't really change much until the very end of the story arc. I can understand why some people might not like that, but I personally don't have a problem with it. I have a feeling that we'll see a lot of changes to Kylo's character throughout the trilogy.
My problem with Ren was the flop from being someone with the most outlandish display of the force ever in an opening sequence to not really being very good at all with it in the second half. He was conveniently awesome and terrible when the plot needed him to be. Maybe his bad sabre play was what got him kicked out of Luke's Jedi School :shrug: . Like General Hux, I kind of didn't fear him at all in the second half. Now if I were a console, I would have really feared him then. He sure knew how to slice up a console.

Gonna disagree on the timeline of how much Jedi training Luke received, but we can all agree he received some training throughout the OT. He didn't just pick up a light sabre and become Aldo Nadi immediately.

Good theory on Rey's use of the mind trick. Sounds like the kind of story that gets told through the generations. I can buy that as the primer to her using it.

 
It's weird that people can't accept Adam Driver but could then buy into a young Mark Hammill.
I'm not sure I understand this. I don't like Adam Driver as an actor. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. Probably because the first thing I saw him in was Girls. I didn't say he didn't do a good job in the Star Wars movie. But I'm never going to be able to think of him as a badass.On the other hand, I was a kid when I saw the first Star Wars, and I had no opinion about Mark Hamill. I didn't have any problem believing he was a naive yokel who thought he knew more than he did. I don't think I would have bought him as a badass in the original trilogy, either, but that's not what he was playing. Even in Jedi, he was still unsure of himself and thought he knew more than he did. Hell, when he claims that he is a Jedi on Dagobah, Yoda practically laughs in his face, despite dying at the time.
My point is both actors are kind of weiner-looking guys but it doesn't matter because you don't have to look like the Rock to pull off a bad-### role in this movie universe.
And I think what he's saying is that Luke wasn't a bad ###. He was your average teen punk that was cocky, annoying and inexperienced. He played that part well.

Driver is supposed to be a badass and shows badass moments but for some people they have a hard time believing that Driver the person is a badass.

 
I think the training time for Luke in Empire is months, travel time for the Falcon from the Hoth system to Bespian has to be months at least without a functioning hyper drive.

On another note I think Rey is more along the lines of being closer related to Anakin then being child of Han and Liea or Luke and random space babe. I think this is the source of Luke's incredulous look.
While the movie doesn't really answer this for us, the consensus from nerds with more time than I have is that the journey took "several weeks"
It doesn't make any sense for it to have taken weeks. Why would Boba Fett follow them for weeks? He obviously transmits to Vader while in route, so why even let them land anywhere? If they're traveling that slow for that long, you'd just pick them up on deep space somewhere.
 

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