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STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (2 Viewers)

cstu said:
It's science fantasy - some science, some fantasy (like the force).
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I think that is a term I have seen Lucas use but he has also at times disavowed Star Wars as Sci Fi.  Personally I think it is a fantasy first franchise, with very little sci fi in it.

Here was a quote Lucas made at an interview at Sundance a couple of years ago

  • "Star Wars really isn't a science-fiction film, it's a fantasy film and a space opera."
 
I don't think it's as much the science I'm mad at as the cartography of it. They have no sense of where they have set their own planets. They show us a map in their official material and completely #### all over it in the movie.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I think that is a term I have seen Lucas use but he has also at times disavowed Star Wars as Sci Fi.  Personally I think it is a fantasy first franchise, with very little sci fi in it.

Here was a quote Lucas made at an interview at Sundance a couple of years ago

  • "Star Wars really isn't a science-fiction film, it's a fantasy film and a space opera."
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Science isn't big part of it but there are AI robots and android, cyborg technology, spaceships with hyperdrives, etc. 

 
cstu said:
Science isn't big part of it but there are AI robots and android, cyborg technology, spaceships with hyperdrives, etc. 
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I think people confuse the definition of Sci Fi with having specifically to do with technology being on screen.  This is the definition of Science Fiction:

a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc.

Very little scientific knowledge is ever displayed in a Star Wars story.   The characters seem to understand the technology no better than my 83 year old mother using the internet.  She has no idea how or why it works, but she can use it, similar to how most characters on Star Wars use the technology.

Anikan as a kid displays the only real scientific interest in building 3PO but that is almost handled in passing rather than being a driving part of the plot.

===========================

All shows and movies have small cross overs.  Hell even Caddyshack had a dramatic moment or two, but shows and movies are defined by what the majority of the tone and texture of the story is about.

Here are 3 space based shows that all belong to different genres as their main component:

Star Trek: Sci Fi

Star Wars: Fantasy

Firefly: Western

 
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Isn't episode VII pretty much the same as episode IV?  I mean I'll watch this stuff forever and a day but it should have had more cool monsters, less geriatric characters, and more substance.  92 on Rotten Tomatoes is rotten, this was in the 70s at best. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Isn't episode VII pretty much the same as episode IV?  I mean I'll watch this stuff forever and a day but it should have had more cool monsters, less geriatric characters, and more substance.  92 on Rotten Tomatoes is rotten, this was in the 70s at best. 
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Now on Starz, only reinforces how awful i thought it was to begin with. Kylo Ren or whatever, they managed to take everything you hated about Hayden Christiansen and then blends that into a carbon copy movie of the '77 Original. People who write these movie reviews are mostly clueless. Ebert has left a gigantic hole in movie reviews. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Isn't episode VII pretty much the same as episode IV?  I mean I'll watch this stuff forever and a day but it should have had more cool monsters, less geriatric characters, and more substance.  92 on Rotten Tomatoes is rotten, this was in the 70s at best. 
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Congrats, MOP thinks you're spot on. 

It was a fun, highly entertaining movie. Deserved a little lower of a score, but not much. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
The whole setup feels wrong to me.

After 30 years of Republic why is there a "Resistance"? Who/what are they resisting? If it's the First Order, why doesn't the Republic have a military? Is it a militia?

"Hey everyone, grab your X-Wing...we have a battle to fight!"

And how ineffective is the Republic that it a) enabled a gang like the First Order to rise up and b) build a multi-planet killing weapon out of another planet? Super ineffective I guess since they still have princesses and politicians as generals.

And a mega-weapon...again. That has an easily accessible fatal flaw...AGAIN?

Most battle scenes have no urgency because they're being fought by a bunch of Red Shirts and it's hard to care who lives or dies in them.

General Hux is a bad character. I get that he's supposed to be out of his depth and thus required to be blustery but I couldn't buy it. I felt the same as I did with the bad guy in V for Vendetta. He's not menacing- he's a caricature. And those First Order costumes are ridiculous.

Then there's Carrie Fisher. Ooooofff. I know they were trying to go with as many practical effects as possible but they could have CGI'd her an open mouth, right? Or maybe she was entirely CGI and I was just experiencing the Uncanny Valley effect. Or maybe she uses Botox like she used to use (uses?) cocaine. Either way, it was so bad it took me right out of the story.

Han's death on the Guardrail-less Bridge of Dubious Purpose Other Than Dramatic Effect was telegraphed from more than 12 parsecs away (I'll forgive this one since it's still a kid's movie).

Kylo Ren is definitely a Millennial villain. You know damn well what I mean. I bet his most powerful force power is being super ironic.

And how many jails post guards INSIDE the cells? I know they had to show Rey's Force awakening but it's those plot contrivance that drive me crazy. It did in the OTHER jailbreak scene - "hey guys, you don't need to check my security clearance because I'm wearing this Stormtrooper armor. Soooo, I'll just be taking this most important prisoner ever, by myself, to Ren. Cool? Cool."

On the plus side, Ridley and Boyega nailed it. Really, they were terrific.

The lightsaber mystique is cool. How did Maz acquire the Cloud City version and Ben's chest?

The effects ARE really good. BB-8 is a nice addition to the Star Wars universe.

I'll go see it again and maybe this is all a case of it being too far from what I expected but as of now it is a huge letdown.
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I still mostly stand by this. It's an average movie because the high points are great but the low are pretty low.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Isn't episode VII pretty much the same as episode IV?  I mean I'll watch this stuff forever and a day but it should have had more cool monsters, less geriatric characters, and more substance.  92 on Rotten Tomatoes is rotten, this was in the 70s at best. 
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Just going to repeat a previous post in response:

GregR said:
Huh. So you think a movie about a droid carrying information vital to the rebellion, crash landing on a desert plant and randomly found by someone powerful but untrained in the Force, evading storm troopers while pursued by a black-mask-wearing wielder of the dark side of the Force who kills the mentor-figure and has a Death Star capable of destroying planets until it is destroyed by X-wing fighters flown by the resistance... felt more like Star Wars?

I'm not really seeing it. Good movie though. :thumbup:
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Capella said:
Congrats, MOP thinks you're spot on. 

It was a fun, highly entertaining movie. Deserved a little lower of a score, but not much. 
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You are such a commercial now, I can't even believe you eat at La Teresita. 

I'd rather watch Aladdin any day over the last 4 Star Wars films. 

They should have just ended it on Episode V and left everyone wondering what might have happened. 

 
:shrug: My current rankings are..

1. IV  - Still my favorite

2. V - One of the rare "squeals"/Part 2's that actually worked well and was almost as good as the 1st

3. VII - Sure it was basically a reboot of the series, but enjoyed it from start to finish.

4. VI - One of those films that drops in my ranking due to the ending.. The ending to this day is like fingers on the chalk board to me.

5. III - Decent wrap up to the Darth Vader beginning

6. II - Had so much potential but spent way too much trying to explain every nuance

7. I  - Again so much potential to work with and just crapped on.

 
My new theory is that Rey is actually a lab-grown, Force-sensitive human.  A First Order project called Ma-Rey Su.  Kylo broke her out early and stashed her on Jakku because he planned to eventually use her as a secret weapon against Snoke after perfecting his own Force skills.

That's why she speaks all the languages and has all the skills and why Kylo was disproportionately pissed when he found out that BB-8 and Finn had escaped Jakku with the help of a girl and why he's reluctant to kill her. 

 
bcdjr1 said:
My new theory is that Rey is actually a lab-grown, Force-sensitive human.  A First Order project called Ma-Rey Su.  Kylo broke her out early and stashed her on Jakku because he planned to eventually use her as a secret weapon against Snoke after perfecting his own Force skills.

That's why she speaks all the languages and has all the skills and why Kylo was disproportionately pissed when he found out that BB-8 and Finn had escaped Jakku with the help of a girl and why he's reluctant to kill her. 
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Let us know how that works out. 

 
Aerial Assault said:
What a surprise to encounter, in the FFA of all places, some uncomfortable with a strong female character.  
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I like strong female characters.

This was a girl who's supposedly never left Jakku since she was a little girl, and lived basically on her own the whole time. But she knows every language she encounters. She flies a freighter she'd never flown before through an obstacle course that a skilled pilot would have trouble with (like the TIE fighter pilots who were pursuing her). She is a pretty damn good shot with a blaster (even seems to surprise herself) despite the fact that she only has a rudimentary knowledge of them. She tells Han you just pull the trigger; that'd be what I said if you asked me how to use a gun, and I've never held a gun. She also learns how to use her Force powers on her own, in a matter of hours, after only receiving the instruction "close your eyes and see the light within". Even Luke and Anakin needed more training than that to use active powers. And then she defeats someone who has been trained in the use of a lightsaber and Force powers despite having never having held an ignited blade before. She does everything she tries at a very high level of proficiency, even if it's the first time she's done it, which is pretty Mary Sue.

While we know that Rey has been on Jakku for a long time, we aren't told how long. Maybe it's been many years, but maybe it's only been a handful. Maybe she ages faster than a normal human because she's been grown in a lab to mature quickly. And maybe a side effect of that is her ability to pick up skills so quickly. And maybe she has a bit of Skywalker DNA in her mixture, which explains why she has an affinity with Vader's old saber.

 
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.

 
Riversco said:
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.
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Good.  She was brutally bad in the last one. 

 
Riversco said:
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.
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Cocaine is a hell of a drug...

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I still mostly stand by this. It's an average movie because the high points are great but the low are pretty low.
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Been on heavy rotation on Starz since they got the rights in September. Have tried to watch it again a few times, but just can't sit through the whole thing. There's a lot of good, but its hard for me to look past a plot that makes no sense, among its other flaws you and others mentioned.

Some station has been playing the other 6 movies non-stop the last week and I had almost forgotten how horrible the prequels are. This movie was a major step up from that at least but I don't feel like that makes this a great movie just because it was better than the prequel dreck. It shouldn't get a pass for its faults just because there is no Jar Jar. Hoping Rogue One is a lot better but not optimistic based on the internet buzz about reshoots, etc.

 
Riversco said:
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.
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This sounds like it was planned a while ago.  The following came out in March:

According to Latino Review, Dern will be playing a senior officer within the Resistance, who is called into action when General Leia is injured at some point during the story. It’s unclear what her exact rank would be, but would rank above Major Caluan Ematt (see in The Force Awakens) and operate as a second-in-command to Leia. Where she was during the events of The Force Awakens remains to be seen.
 

 
Riversco said:
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.
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She was awful.  I don't get the hate for episode 7 that some of you have..it's a great movie.  But Fisher was unbelievably bad. 

 
Riversco said:
Episode 8 minor spoiler ahead...

This probably surprises no-one, but rumor has it that Carrie Fisher can't act.  In fact, its so bad that the script for Episode 8 had to be adjusted.  Fisher would have had a lot of dialogue but her scenes were so awful that they were forced to hire Laura Dern to replace her role.  The script was rewritten so Leia goes into a coma and Dern takes over the Resistance.
Click to expand...
Carrie Fisher was a pretty damn good looking woman when she was young. Star Wars, Blues Brothers, The Man with One Red Shoe, etc.  She was never a particularly good actress, but she was good enough to get by with her looks.  Then she got on drugs, her career went to hell, and she got old.  So this isn't that surprising IMO.

 
flysack said:
:lmao:

Now this is just a guess, but when they make the Han Solo movie, the lead might be a white male. That's just me guessing though.
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Honestly, some characters you can re-do and replace in movies and it's all fine and good.  But how in god's name do you do a Han Solo movie without getting Harrison Ford and a time machine?  Sacrilegious. 

 
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