Steelers (2007) (1 Viewer)

[Godsbrother]

Most of Davenport's yardage occurs in garbage time. To me , when hes called upon in 3rd and 1 situations I cringe...not impressive whatsoever. Duckett is a horse by comparison. Davenport was decent at returning, but thats about it.

Disagree. Greenbay played a between the 40's running game. Ahman was used from the goal line to the 40 and then rested while Davenport and Fisher got it across the 50 and into opponent territory. Davenport was not a garbage time back and played very regularly in most games. The only reason they let him go in Greenbay was price tag and injuries.

I think Iron Mike was referring to last season with the Steelers, not his career in Green Bay. Personally I thought Davenport was okay last season but nothing special. If the Steelers can get him on the cheap then I am all for it as he is servicable and plays special teams.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yo PP get out of here.Vrabel was one of the guys to jump on a tackled player to make it look like he made a good play. Hes done and over just like the rest of the Pats. I hate your guts and the patriots.

You make a foolish statement and your reaction is to lash out when not 1 but 5 people call you on it?Of course you hate the Patriots, if I were a Steelers fan, 2001 and 2004 would be awfully tough to get over.

It would have been much worse if not for '05. that pretty much wiped away the years of frustration in one fell swoop.

It looks like some cant get over the bitterness even with the '05 victory. I have already given you my congratulations for that one. Hold on to that feeling, it could be your last for awhile.I'm not high on the Steeler prospects for next year and beyond. Rothliesberger is a question mark and the Steelers defense isnt nearly as fearsome as it has been in recent memory. Maybe Tomlin can turn that around, maybe not.

We'll see, I guess. I'm relatively optimistic, but if they don't win another Super Bowl for a while, that's OK with me. I just wanted one while I was old enough to really celebrate it - anything else is cream cheese.As long as Tomlin maintains Cowher's success, the Steelers will always be a threat. We don't rebuild so much as re-load.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Most of Davenport's yardage occurs in garbage time. To me , when hes called upon in 3rd and 1 situations I cringe...not impressive whatsoever. Duckett is a horse by comparison. Davenport was decent at returning, but thats about it.

Disagree. Greenbay played a between the 40's running game. Ahman was used from the goal line to the 40 and then rested while Davenport and Fisher got it across the 50 and into opponent territory. Davenport was not a garbage time back and played very regularly in most games. The only reason they let him go in Greenbay was price tag and injuries.

I think Iron Mike was referring to last season with the Steelers, not his career in Green Bay. Personally I thought Davenport was okay last season but nothing special. If the Steelers can get him on the cheap then I am all for it as he is servicable and plays special teams.

My point has always been there never been any evidence that Duckett could fill Bettis's shoes. Davenport was ok but unspectacular for sure, but I don't know why people continue to believe a thoroughly mediocre at best Duckett will all of the sudden become an NFL calibre running back just by being on the Steelers. He just isn't good. Period.

 

[Jous]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Yo PP get out of here.Vrabel was one of the guys to jump on a tackled player to make it look like he made a good play. Hes done and over just like the rest of the Pats. I hate your guts and the patriots.

You make a foolish statement and your reaction is to lash out when not 1 but 5 people call you on it?Of course you hate the Patriots, if I were a Steelers fan, 2001 and 2004 would be awfully tough to get over.

It would have been much worse if not for '05. that pretty much wiped away the years of frustration in one fell swoop.

It looks like some cant get over the bitterness even with the '05 victory. I have already given you my congratulations for that one. Hold on to that feeling, it could be your last for awhile.I'm not high on the Steeler prospects for next year and beyond. Rothliesberger is a question mark and the Steelers defense isnt nearly as fearsome as it has been in recent memory. Maybe Tomlin can turn that around, maybe not.

We'll see, I guess. I'm relatively optimistic, but if they don't win another Super Bowl for a while, that's OK with me. I just wanted one while I was old enough to really celebrate it - anything else is cream cheese.As long as Tomlin maintains Cowher's success, the Steelers will always be a threat. We don't rebuild so much as re-load.

To Cowher's credit, in 15 years of coaching, the Steelers only had 4 down years (under .500 and I included last year as it definitely was a dissapointment coming off the SB). He had had back to back losing seasons once. He was able to avoid any prolonged down period and in that regard I agree, the Steelers generally reload.I think the AFC is so interesting:Colts = defending SB champsPats = made it to AFC championship, Dillon might be retiring, lost 2nd year WR Chad Jackson and their WR core is a mess right now, Bruschi might retire and their LB core is in disarrayChargers = Best talent in the AFC but lost their coaching staff and hired a perrenial loser in Norv TurnerBaltimore = coming off a 13-3 season but have an ancient QB and RBCincinnati = defense took about 10 steps back last year and half the team is on work releaseDenver = Can Cutler make the leap in year 2? He looked pretty good at the end of the year. RB situation is a mess.Steelers = New coaching staff. Defense isnt what it used to be. LB core is getting older like Pats.Jets = Up and coming team with good young coach.The AFC is just LOADED. And thats not to mention Jax, Tenn, Buffalo and KC. Teams that at least showed playoff possibilities last year.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

Alittle short of recievers in NE. Why dont you just go post about the Pats there in the NE offseason thread, we dont care here.....

As for the Steelers and Big Ben, as long as he wears a helmet in the offseason I think we're gonna be tough to beat. The bigger question is what Tomlin is going to do with the Defense, on offense I think they will be strong, Ward , Holmes and Wilson compliment eachother well, with Heath Miller and FWP mixing it up. The linebackers and secondary was kinda soft last year I wanna see what happens with personell and preseason should actually be very fun to watch, almost surely some new defensive looks.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yo PP get out of here.Vrabel was one of the guys to jump on a tackled player to make it look like he made a good play. Hes done and over just like the rest of the Pats. I hate your guts and the patriots.

You make a foolish statement and your reaction is to lash out when not 1 but 5 people call you on it?Of course you hate the Patriots, if I were a Steelers fan, 2001 and 2004 would be awfully tough to get over.

It would have been much worse if not for '05. that pretty much wiped away the years of frustration in one fell swoop.

It looks like some cant get over the bitterness even with the '05 victory. I have already given you my congratulations for that one. Hold on to that feeling, it could be your last for awhile.I'm not high on the Steeler prospects for next year and beyond. Rothliesberger is a question mark and the Steelers defense isnt nearly as fearsome as it has been in recent memory. Maybe Tomlin can turn that around, maybe not.

We'll see, I guess. I'm relatively optimistic, but if they don't win another Super Bowl for a while, that's OK with me. I just wanted one while I was old enough to really celebrate it - anything else is cream cheese.As long as Tomlin maintains Cowher's success, the Steelers will always be a threat. We don't rebuild so much as re-load.

To Cowher's credit, in 15 years of coaching, the Steelers only had 4 down years (under .500 and I included last year as it definitely was a dissapointment coming off the SB). He had had back to back losing seasons once. He was able to avoid any prolonged down period and in that regard I agree, the Steelers generally reload.I think the AFC is so interesting:Colts = defending SB champsPats = made it to AFC championship, Dillon might be retiring, lost 2nd year WR Chad Jackson and their WR core is a mess right now, Bruschi might retire and their LB core is in disarrayChargers = Best talent in the AFC but lost their coaching staff and hired a perrenial loser in Norv TurnerBaltimore = coming off a 13-3 season but have an ancient QB and RBCincinnati = defense took about 10 steps back last year and half the team is on work releaseDenver = Can Cutler make the leap in year 2? He looked pretty good at the end of the year. RB situation is a mess.Steelers = New coaching staff. Defense isnt what it used to be. LB core is getting older like Pats.Jets = Up and coming team with good young coach.The AFC is just LOADED. And thats not to mention Jax, Tenn, Buffalo and KC. Teams that at least showed playoff possibilities last year.

The AFC definitely is loaded. There are so many good teams that it becomes a survival of the fittest. Fortunes change so fast in the NFL that it's hard to know from year to year which teams will be good and which will suck. Going into last year, the Dolphins and Bengals were the two hot "teams on the rise." Neither made the playoffs. A couple of years ago, San Diego sucked so badly that Eli Manning refused to play for them. Now, they're probably the most talented team in the NFL.That's what made Cowher's tenure amazing. To have twice as many AFC Championship game appearances as losing seasons in your career (and to average 10 regular season wins over a 15-year stretch) is remarkable. The Steelers rarely stink. If you notice, even their 3 losing seasons were 6-10 or 7-9 seasons, they dont go 4-12. This past year was the only year under Cowher that they went 8-8, and they've gone 9-7 twice. That's 6 years, meaning 9 years out of 15, they won 10 games or more. I'll take that any day - knowing going into to each and every season that you have a 60% chance of winning at least 10 games. You're almost always in the hunt. Since 2000, when the AFC really began to assert itself as the dominant conference, he went 72-44-1.Add to this, that what Dungy has done the past few years has been with Peyton Manning at the most important position on the field. Belichick has done what he's done with Brady (kudos for making such a brilliant draft pick.) Cowher's success has come with : Neil O' Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Ben Roethlisberger. Ben is easily the best of that bunch, and he's a 24-year old (and a question mark, as you dubbed him earlier.) That's pretty remarkable. Cowher led the team to a conference title game almost every other season during his tenure with that collection of QBs.This is what Tomlin has to live up to. I never, ever count the Steelers out until they're eliminated from the playoffs, and this year is no different. I am definitely not bearish on the team's future prospects. Roethlisberger, Parker, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller, Polamalu, and a number of other key contributors are all 25 or younger. The nucleus is there. If they can reload the OL and the LBs, they're going to continue to be good for a long time to come.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

This is just 100% true all the way around.

 

[Ben Stiller]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

 

[Tom Servo]

The AFC definitely is loaded. There are so many good teams that it becomes a survival of the fittest. Fortunes change so fast in the NFL that it's hard to know from year to year which teams will be good and which will suck. Going into last year, the Dolphins and Bengals were the two hot "teams on the rise." Neither made the playoffs. A couple of years ago, San Diego sucked so badly that Eli Manning refused to play for them. Now, they're probably the most talented team in the NFL.That's what made Cowher's tenure amazing. To have twice as many AFC Championship game appearances as losing seasons in your career (and to average 10 regular season wins over a 15-year stretch) is remarkable. The Steelers rarely stink. If you notice, even their 3 losing seasons were 6-10 or 7-9 seasons, they dont go 4-12. This past year was the only year under Cowher that they went 8-8, and they've gone 9-7 twice. That's 6 years, meaning 9 years out of 15, they won 10 games or more. I'll take that any day - knowing going into to each and every season that you have a 60% chance of winning at least 10 games. You're almost always in the hunt. Since 2000, when the AFC really began to assert itself as the dominant conference, he went 72-44-1.Add to this, that what Dungy has done the past few years has been with Peyton Manning at the most important position on the field. Belichick has done what he's done with Brady (kudos for making such a brilliant draft pick.) Cowher's success has come with : Neil O' Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Ben Roethlisberger. Ben is easily the best of that bunch, and he's a 24-year old (and a question mark, as you dubbed him earlier.) That's pretty remarkable. Cowher led the team to a conference title game almost every other season during his tenure with that collection of QBs.This is what Tomlin has to live up to. I never, ever count the Steelers out until they're eliminated from the playoffs, and this year is no different. I am definitely not bearish on the team's future prospects. Roethlisberger, Parker, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller, Polamalu, and a number of other key contributors are all 25 or younger. The nucleus is there. If they can reload the OL and the LBs, they're going to continue to be good for a long time to come.

As usual, EG has a

 

[Pat Patriot]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

 

[Irish]

Steelers Notebook: Decision on Porter must be made soonFriday, February 23, 2007By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-GazetteINDIANAPOLIS -- Free agency starts a week from today and the Steelers still have not made their intentions known about linebacker Joey Porter.Coach Mike Tomlin said yesterday he has talked to Porter but gave little indication what plans he may have for him.Porter, who turns 30 March 22, is due a $1 million roster bonus March 6 and a $4 million salary next season, his last under contract. He threatened to hold out for a new contract last training camp until then-coach Bill Cowher convinced him not to.Porter had a subpar season for him in 2006 after making the Pro Bowl in three of the previous four seasons. He has been their starting right outside linebacker since 2000 and moved into third place on their career list with 60 sacks, seven of them last season.Porter, one of the defensive co-captains, would become an unrestricted free agent immediately if the Steelers do not pay him the bonus by March 6.Tomlin said yesterday at the National Scouting Combine that he has talked to Porter, but when he was asked yesterday if Porter would be back with the Steelers for 2007, he deferred."I have no thoughts on that regard," Tomlin said. "I talked to Joey just like I talk to every other player. He's under contract. He's a Pittsburgh Steeler."That fell far short of any warm endorsement for a player of Porter's status, and it might be that the new coach will bring some cold, hard decisions to a team and its players, who won a Super Bowl a little more than one year ago. Kevin Colbert, the director of football operations, has said he welcomes Tomlin's objective opinions of players for whom others in the organization might have stronger emotional feelings based on what they've done in the past.After the season, Porter was asked if he felt he would be with the Steelers in 2007."At the end of the day it's going to be up to the organization," said Porter. "I am here. This is home for me. But it is a business, and just like everybody else I want to make sure I make the right business move for my family. I would love to finish my career here. I am going to just sit back and wait."Tight on salary capThe Steelers squeezed under the NFL's salary cap when they reported Jeff Hartings retirement and erased his 2007 salary from their books. But they remain tight and must find ways to create even more space if they are to add anyone in free agency or sign some of their own players to long-term deals."We're looking at several options and we're going to weigh those in the upcoming days and move forward in that regard," Tomlin said. "But we have several options and we're exploring those."Starks questionTeam officials have not yet decided what kind of one-year salary tender to give tackle Max Starks, who will become a restricted free agent next Friday, their only free agent among their 22 starters.They will pick from one of two -- a $1.3 million tender or a $1.8 million tender. Either would maintain their right to match any other contract Starks would receive in free agency, but if they decided not to match, the different tenders would provide different compensation to the Steelers. If they tender him a $1.3 million salary, they would receive a second-round draft pick if he signs elsewhere and they don't match; a $1.8 million tender would bring them a first-round draft pick from the team that signs him.Contracts expireThe Steelers have been talking to the agents for some of their players whose contracts expire next Friday, all of them backups. Among those they'd like to sign is halfback Najeh Davenport.Intelligence testingThe NFL has issued the Wonderlic test to prospects for years as a way to determine a player's intelligence. It again became a controversial subject when quarterback Vince Young's low test score was revealed publicly last year, incorrectly at first."Personally, I've never been a Wonderlic guy," Tomlin said. "That's just me. It doesn't measure football intelligence. You don't know the background, the way guys have prepared for the test and all that. You've got to go based on your interactions with people and what you see on tape."The Wonderlic is a form of measurement and it's just one form of measurement. You can't put too much stock into it in my opinion. I think it's a combination of all of the above that you need to use in terms of evaluating a player."Tomlin said he puts more stock in the Steelers' psychological test that they give each of the prospects.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1.

He didn't play week 1 of his rookie season.

 

[The Hank]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

#1. Learn how to spell names. RoethLISberger.#2. Tommy Maddox was the starter whenever Roethlisberger's rookie campaign went under way, however, in the second game, 3rd quarter vs. the Baltimore Ravens Maddox tragically injured his elbow, thus giving way to Roethlisberger finishing the game (almost won it too).

All in all, he wasnt even supposed to play that year, only he got thrust into the position after Maddox's injury, and due to his excellent winning performances, got the starting job even after Maddox was cleared to play in week 6 or 7. Make sure you know about what really happened before you post chief.

Maddox Injured, Roethlisberger to Start

 

[Steel Dillo]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.

He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

If you can't agree that the QBs had similar stats after their first 3 NFL seasons (they did), also consider that Roethlisberger left Miami after his junior season. Ben's age his first three NFL seasons was 22, 23, 24. Brady was 23, 24, 25. Ben turns 25 on March 2nd. In addition to putting up better numbers than Brady after 3 seasons he is also a year younger than Brady after three NFL seasons. The kid is only going to get better, like Brady did.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

#1. Learn how to spell names. RoethLISberger.#2. Tommy Maddox was the starter whenever Roethlisberger's rookie campaign went under way, however, in the second game, 3rd quarter vs. the Baltimore Ravens Maddox tragically injured his elbow, thus giving way to Roethlisberger finishing the game (almost won it too).

All in all, he wasnt even supposed to play that year, only he got thrust into the position after Maddox's injury, and due to his excellent winning performances, got the starting job even after Maddox was cleared to play in week 6 or 7. Make sure you know about what really happened before you post chief.

Maddox Injured, Roethlisberger to Start

You are a joke. Like I care how Big Ben spells his name. So BEN played in 15 games his rookie year as opposed to Brady who didnt play a down. Ya, same thing. Ben's career is off to a great start. But he has hit a bump in the road. He just had a year with 18 TD's and 23 Int. That is not a good year.

Brady never hit that bump. He won SB's in 3 of his first 4 years and in the year that the Pats didnt make the playoffs, Brady had one of his best statistical years and led the league in TD passes with 28. Brady has been remarkably consistent since then.

Big Ben had a lot happen to him and some legit excuses for his poor performance in 2006. However, he is at a crossroads now. Does he take a step forward or continue his poor play from 2006? It is reasonable to assume that he will bounce back but how sure are you?

If you dont recognize that there is a flaw in comparing Brady's first 30 games with Ben's first 40 games, then I dont know how to help you.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Ben's injuries affected his play, Whisenhunt says

Saturday, February 24, 2007

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

INDIANAPOLIS -- Upon further review, the injuries Ben Roethlisberger suffered last summer contributed to him having a poor season, his former offensive coordinator said today.

Ken Whisenhunt, now the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals, believes in hindsight that Roethlisberger's motorcycle accident on June 12 coupled with his Sept. 3 appendectomy caused the quarterback problems for most of the season.

"I just saw physically in the pocket there were some things you could just sense he wasn't as confident as he was the year before,'' said Whisenhunt, speaking at the NFL's annual Combine workout session for 326 college prospects. "A lot of that I think was because of recovering from the injuries and having some doubts of whether he was 100 percent healthy or not."

It's the first time someone from the Steelers staff last season has acknowledged that Roethlisberger was seriously affected on the field from his injuries off of it.

Roethlisberger played in all four preseason games after overcoming a near-fatal June 12 accident in which his motorcycle collided with a car in downtown Pittsburgh. He was set to play in the Sept. 7 opener but the unexpected appendectomy sidelined himfor that game.

He returned to start Sept. 18 at Jacksonville and did not miss another game that season, even after he had a concussion Oct. 22 at Atlanta.

It was by far his worst season of three in the NFL. Roethlisberger threw for 18 touchdowns and 23 interceptions -- three more than in his first two seasons combined. His passer rating of 75.4 was 23 points below his combined rating of his first two seasons.

 

[Memphis Foundry]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

:X I would consider this Christmas in April.

 

[kevinray]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

I expect 2nd round picks to be starters in 2-3 years at the latest. We have a game changing back right now who's been signed to starter money, and it really is time we all get used to the fact that willies the steelers running back and stop trying to find the next Bus. You do not shoot for backups or part time palyers on the first day of the draft.

 

[The Hank]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

#1. Learn how to spell names. RoethLISberger.#2. Tommy Maddox was the starter whenever Roethlisberger's rookie campaign went under way, however, in the second game, 3rd quarter vs. the Baltimore Ravens Maddox tragically injured his elbow, thus giving way to Roethlisberger finishing the game (almost won it too).

All in all, he wasnt even supposed to play that year, only he got thrust into the position after Maddox's injury, and due to his excellent winning performances, got the starting job even after Maddox was cleared to play in week 6 or 7. Make sure you know about what really happened before you post chief.

Maddox Injured, Roethlisberger to Start

You are a joke. Like I care how Big Ben spells his name. So BEN played in 15 games his rookie year as opposed to Brady who didnt play a down. Ya, same thing. Ben's career is off to a great start. But he has hit a bump in the road. He just had a year with 18 TD's and 23 Int. That is not a good year.

Brady never hit that bump. He won SB's in 3 of his first 4 years and in the year that the Pats didnt make the playoffs, Brady had one of his best statistical years and led the league in TD passes with 28. Brady has been remarkably consistent since then.

Big Ben had a lot happen to him and some legit excuses for his poor performance in 2006. However, he is at a crossroads now. Does he take a step forward or continue his poor play from 2006? It is reasonable to assume that he will bounce back but how sure are you?

If you dont recognize that there is a flaw in comparing Brady's first 30 games with Ben's first 40 games, then I dont know how to help you.

For Pete's sake, he got in the face by a freaking car and was MINUTES AWAY FROM DIEING, had an emergency appendectomy, and STILL played nearly a full season.Also, the guy was in his third year after going to the AFC Championship game his rookie tenure, meanwhile breaking the record the most consecutive wins as a rookie that some guy named Dan Marino had, and then in only his second year at 23 years old he won the Super Bowl. Granted this season was rough, but give him some slack!

Where as I can't predict the future, but I'd wager that he has a much better season without the distraction of off season injuries, as well as the uncertainity at head coach postition. With a good draft/offseason, the steelers can be right in the thick of it as they almost snuck in the postseason after getting off to a slow start.

 

[Godsbrother]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

I expect 2nd round picks to be starters in 2-3 years at the latest. We have a game changing back right now who's been signed to starter money, and it really is time we all get used to the fact that willies the steelers running back and stop trying to find the next Bus. You do not shoot for backups or part time palyers on the first day of the draft.

Good backup and role playing backs can be had via FA and in the 4th+ rounds of the draft. Let's sure up the OL, LB and DL.

 

[The Hank]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.

He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

I expect 2nd round picks to be starters in 2-3 years at the latest. We have a game changing back right now who's been signed to starter money, and it really is time we all get used to the fact that willies the steelers running back and stop trying to find the next Bus. You do not shoot for backups or part time palyers on the first day of the draft.

Good backup and role playing backs can be had via FA and in the 4th+ rounds of the draft. Let's sure up the OL, LB and DL.

Amen Godsbrother!

 

[Godsbrother]

For Pete's sake, he got in the face by a freaking car and was MINUTES AWAY FROM DIEING, had an emergency appendectomy, and STILL played nearly a full season.

Good point, Hank. People tend to just fluff this off like it wasn't anything at all.Barring a freak accident and weird medical procedure Ben will be fine, especially if the o-line can protect a bit better than last year. The pass protection was a disgrace for more than a few games last season.

 

[Ben Stiller]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.

He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

I expect 2nd round picks to be starters in 2-3 years at the latest. We have a game changing back right now who's been signed to starter money, and it really is time we all get used to the fact that willies the steelers running back and stop trying to find the next Bus. You do not shoot for backups or part time palyers on the first day of the draft.

Good backup and role playing backs can be had via FA and in the 4th+ rounds of the draft. Let's sure up the OL, LB and DL.

Amen Godsbrother!

I am no PSU fan but I'd love to see Levi Brown fall to them in the 1st and Posluszny fall to them in the 2nd.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I'd like to see the Steelers take Michael Bush if he's still available when they pick in the 2nd round.

He's as close to a Bettis clone as I've seen in a while.

I expect 2nd round picks to be starters in 2-3 years at the latest. We have a game changing back right now who's been signed to starter money, and it really is time we all get used to the fact that willies the steelers running back and stop trying to find the next Bus. You do not shoot for backups or part time palyers on the first day of the draft.

Good backup and role playing backs can be had via FA and in the 4th+ rounds of the draft. Let's sure up the OL, LB and DL.

Amen Godsbrother!

I am no PSU fan but I'd love to see Levi Brown fall to them in the 1st and Posluszny fall to them in the 2nd.

FWIW I see Brown ran a 5.39 40 today, his stock may drop. PFT is reporting the Steelers like Alan Branch:

POSTED 9:44 a.m. EST, February 24, 2007

NINERS, STEELERS LIKE BRANCH

Our moles in Indy tell us that both the San Francisco 49ers and the Pittsburgh Steelers are interested in Michigan defensive tackle Alan Branch. Many think that Branch can play defensive tackle in the 3-4 or the 4-3, and the Steelers likely will be using both fronts as coach Mike Tomlin, a Tampa Two expert, puts his stamp on the team.

The Steelers already have Casey Hampton on the roster, who anchors the middle of the 3-4. The addition of a guy like Branch would give them a solid alternative in the 3-4, and an effective bookend in the 4-3.

The only problem is that both the 49ers and the Steelers likely draft too low to get Branch. The Niners are the Eleveners in round one, and the Steelers pick at 15.

 

[chris1969]

Branch will be gone, but I could see Carriker falling to them

 

[east2west]

One thing we have to consider when we talk about getting another Bettis, or a Bettis clone is that now Tomlin is at the helm. Something tells me that Tomlin is not going to be as dedecated to the ground-and-pound game as Cower, and I dare say that he may try to unleash Ben and the passing game especially if our passing game is looking good after say....week 4. So perhaps a Bettis clone will loss it's importance.

The other thing is, Bettis is a hall of fame type running back, we may go through 10 or 15 runningbacks before we find one that can contribute as he did. Not only as a BUS of a running back, but as a natural leader. To me, they are allmost equally important attributes.

 

[Godsbrother]

FWIW I see Brown ran a 5.39 40 today, his stock may drop.

I have to laugh at an OT's stock dropping because of his time in the 40. If that becomes an issue for your team you have big trouble.

PFT is reporting the Steelers like Alan Branch:

POSTED 9:44 a.m. EST, February 24, 2007

NINERS, STEELERS LIKE BRANCH

Our moles in Indy tell us that both the San Francisco 49ers and the Pittsburgh Steelers are interested in Michigan defensive tackle Alan Branch. Many think that Branch can play defensive tackle in the 3-4 or the 4-3, and the Steelers likely will be using both fronts as coach Mike Tomlin, a Tampa Two expert, puts his stamp on the team.

The Steelers already have Casey Hampton on the roster, who anchors the middle of the 3-4. The addition of a guy like Branch would give them a solid alternative in the 3-4, and an effective bookend in the 4-3.

The only problem is that both the 49ers and the Steelers likely draft too low to get Branch. The Niners are the Eleveners in round one, and the Steelers pick at 15.

Eleveners?

 

[Pat Patriot]

I want a superbowl now dammit. This is more or less the same team that won it in Detroit.

Agree... this current Steeler generation (the Hampton, Parker, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Faneca etc. generation) is too good to not at least go to one more SuperBowl.I'll be satisfied as long as Roethlisberger wins one more SuperBowl though. He has his ring already, but I want him to get another chance to have a great performance in the SuperBowl.

This is a big year for Rothliesberger. He showed a flash of greatness in the SB run but spit the bit in the SB. He has yet to show that he is the type of QB that can win multiple SB's. Like any AFC team, the stars will have to align for the Steelers to win another one in the next 3 years. The competition is just too tough. BTW, I feel the same way about the Pats. They are contenders but need to stay healthy, and catch some breaks.

Pretty interesting comparison of Roethlisberger vs. Brady through three NFL seasons. Brady rode pine in year 1 and Ben had numerous ailments to deal with in year 3...but their overall stats look eerily similar. If Ben hasn't shown that he is capable of winning multiple SBs, what QB has after three seasons?

REGULAR SEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 20-10, Roeth 29-11

Pass Attempts: Brady 1017; Roeth 1032

Completions: Brady 638; Roeth 644

Completion %: Brady 62.7%; Roeth 62.4%

Yards: Brady 6613; Roeth 8519

YPA: Brady 6.5; Roeth 8.3

TD/INT: Brady 46/26; Roeth 52/43

Passer Rating: Brady 85.9; Roeth 87.9

POSTSEASON

W-L (as starter): Brady 3-0, 1 SB win (didn't finish game at PIT); Roeth 5-1, 1 SB win

Pass Attempts: Brady 97, Roeth 147

Completions: Brady 60; Roeth 89

Completion %: Brady 61.9%; Roeth 60.5%

Yards: Brady 572, Roeth 1210

YPA: Brady 5.9; Roeth 8.2

TD/INT: Brady 1/1; Roeth 10/8

Passer Rating: Brady 77.3; Roeth 86.8

After 3 years as a starter, Brady had won 2 SB's and 2 SB MVP's (although 1 wasnt deserved). Yes I am dismissing his first year because he didnt play a down. Rothliesberger was the starter from day 1. After 4 years, Brady had 3 SB rings. He has yet to win another in the last two years.If Rothliesberger makes a deep playoff run this year (AFC Title game), then I will say he is on his way.

#1. Learn how to spell names. RoethLISberger.#2. Tommy Maddox was the starter whenever Roethlisberger's rookie campaign went under way, however, in the second game, 3rd quarter vs. the Baltimore Ravens Maddox tragically injured his elbow, thus giving way to Roethlisberger finishing the game (almost won it too).

All in all, he wasnt even supposed to play that year, only he got thrust into the position after Maddox's injury, and due to his excellent winning performances, got the starting job even after Maddox was cleared to play in week 6 or 7. Make sure you know about what really happened before you post chief.

Maddox Injured, Roethlisberger to Start

You are a joke. Like I care how Big Ben spells his name. So BEN played in 15 games his rookie year as opposed to Brady who didnt play a down. Ya, same thing. Ben's career is off to a great start. But he has hit a bump in the road. He just had a year with 18 TD's and 23 Int. That is not a good year.

Brady never hit that bump. He won SB's in 3 of his first 4 years and in the year that the Pats didnt make the playoffs, Brady had one of his best statistical years and led the league in TD passes with 28. Brady has been remarkably consistent since then.

Big Ben had a lot happen to him and some legit excuses for his poor performance in 2006. However, he is at a crossroads now. Does he take a step forward or continue his poor play from 2006? It is reasonable to assume that he will bounce back but how sure are you?

If you dont recognize that there is a flaw in comparing Brady's first 30 games with Ben's first 40 games, then I dont know how to help you.

For Pete's sake, he got in the face by a freaking car and was MINUTES AWAY FROM DIEING, had an emergency appendectomy, and STILL played nearly a full season.Also, the guy was in his third year after going to the AFC Championship game his rookie tenure, meanwhile breaking the record the most consecutive wins as a rookie that some guy named Dan Marino had, and then in only his second year at 23 years old he won the Super Bowl. Granted this season was rough, but give him some slack!

Where as I can't predict the future, but I'd wager that he has a much better season without the distraction of off season injuries, as well as the uncertainity at head coach postition. With a good draft/offseason, the steelers can be right in the thick of it as they almost snuck in the postseason after getting off to a slow start.

Did you not read that paragraph? I acknowledge that there were legit excuses for Ben's play and that he didnt just all of a sudden become a bad QB.

 

[Pat Patriot]

One thing we have to consider when we talk about getting another Bettis, or a Bettis clone is that now Tomlin is at the helm. Something tells me that Tomlin is not going to be as dedecated to the ground-and-pound game as Cower, and I dare say that he may try to unleash Ben and the passing game especially if our passing game is looking good after say....week 4. So perhaps a Bettis clone will loss it's importance.

The other thing is, Bettis is a hall of fame type running back, we may go through 10 or 15 runningbacks before we find one that can contribute as he did. Not only as a BUS of a running back, but as a natural leader. To me, they are allmost equally important attributes.

Yes. Backs that average 3.9 yards per carry are tough to come by. I dont know why you would be looking for a Bettis type when FWP has averaged 4.7 and 4.4 ypc the last 2 years (last year on 337 carries with 16 TD's). FWP is your running back. FWP's last year production is arguably better than anything Bettis did in his whole career.

 

[Irish]

Steelers eye free agents By John HarrisTRIBUNE-REVIEWSunday, February 25, 2007A list of the NFL's unrestricted free agents:QuarterbacksJeff Garcia, PhiladelphiaTop free agent QB deserves starting job.Damon Huard, Kansas CityPossible starter with right team.Shaun King, IndianapolisFormer starter wants to make comeback.Tim Rattay, Tampa BaySolid No. 2. passer.Anthony Wright, CincinnatiCan start in a pinch.What will the Steelers do: Pass. Desire a young No. 3 quarterback, but the best free agents are all older.Running backsChris Brown, TennesseeRushed for over 1,000 yards two years ago but can't stay healthy.Cornell Buckhalter, PhiladelphiaAveraged more than 4 yards per carry in 2006.T.J. Duckett, RedskinsSteelers favorite available at right price.Ahman Green, Green BayBiggest name on list comes wth biggest (injury) risk.Dominic Rhodes, IndianapolisDUI arrest could offset Super Bowl heroics.What will the Steelers do: Might pursue Duckett a year after they considered trading for him. Also don't discount Baltimore's Ovie Mughelli, a blocking back with a burst.Wide receiversDrew Bennett, TennesseeBig receiver has big-play potential.Kevin Curtis, St. LouisTen touchdowns catches in past two seasons.Bobby Engram, SeattleFormer Penn State star is excellent possession receiver.Keenan McCardell, San DiegoGetting up in age.Donte Stallworth, PhiladephiaCan't be covered, but can't stay healthy.What will the Steelers do: Consider Cincinnati's Kelley Washington, who's one of the taller free agent WRs and has playmaking ability.Tight endsKyle Brady, JacksonvilleMore blocker than receiver.Daniel Graham, New EnglandProduces when called upon.Eric Johnson, San FranciscoCaught 82 passes in 2005.David Martin, Green BayGood receiving skills.Jerramy Stevens, SeattleJoey Porter's favorite tight end beginning to blossom.What will the Steelers do: Probably nothing. Steelers are strong at tight end.TacklesJordan Black, Kansas CityOpened holes for Larry Johnson.Leonard Davis, ArizonaPro Bowl potential.Mike Gandy, BuffaloDecent NFL starter.Damion McIntosh, MiamiStarted 13 games in 2006.Roman Oben, San DiegoVeteran backup.What will the Steelers do: Steelers don't want to spend a lot of money here. Gandy and Black are possibilities, but only if price is right.GuardsKris Dielman, San DiegoTenacious run blocker.Derrick Dockery, WashingtonStarted 61 of a possible 64 games.Todd Steussie, St. LouisUnderstands his role.Eric Steinbach, CincinnatiTurns 27 in April and already has 62 career starts.Floyd Womack, SeattleBackup in the right system.What will the Steelers do: Addressing the guard position isn't a priority, but Dockery is the type of player the Steelers like. He lines up and plays.Defensive endsChris Kelsay, BuffaloAll-around play his No. 1 asset.David Bowens, Miami18 sacks in the past three seasons.Bryan Thomas, New York JetsFormer first-round pick had 8 1/2 sacks in 2006.Juqua Thomas, PhiladelphiaGets after the quarterback.Dewayne White, Tampa BayPass-rusher would be perfect fit for Steelers.What will the Steelers do: Consider White, who stepped in for the injured Simeon Rice. It's in White's favor that he played for Steelers coach Mike Tomlin in Tampa Bay.Defensive tacklesAubrayo Franklin, BaltimoreStuck on bench in Baltimore.Michael Myers, DenverProductive reserveAlvin McKinley, ClevelandVeteran insurance.Michael Myers, DenverRotating member of Broncos' tough defense.Hollis Thomas, New OrleansRecorded 3 1/2 sacks in first season in New Orleans.What will the Steelers do: Pursue young prospects such as Franklin who are part of a winning system.LinebackersE.J. Henderson, MinnesotaPlayed one season under Mike Tomlin.Cato June, IndianapolisPlaymaker in his prime coming off Super Bowl win.Kawika Mitchell, Kansas CitySecond-round pick in 2003.Adalius Thomas, BaltimoreRushes the quarterback, plugs the run and chases receivers.Demorrio Williams, Atlanta92 tackles last season.What will the Steelers do: Add a potential starter from group including Henderson, Mitchell and Williams.CornerbacksPhillip Buchanon, Tampa BayUnderachieving corner.Nate Clements, BuffaloTop unrestricted free agent will command top dollar.Nick Harper, IndianapolisMarket value will never be higher.Tory James, CincinnatiShowing signs of wear and tear.David Macklin, ArizonaCardinals defense came on late.What will the Steelers do: Sign a veteran CB for little or nothingSafetiesTyrone Carter, SteelersVersatile and effective.Deon Grant, JacksonvillePlayed for one of league's strongest units.Ken Hamlin, SeattleDefensive quarterback.Kevin Kaesviharn, CincinnatiGetting better and better.Germone Sapp, BaltimoreNeeds opportunity to play.What will the Steelers do: Nothing. They are solid at safety, and Carter could be the odd-man out.

 

[Irish]

By Scott BrownTRIBUNE-REVIEWSunday, February 25, 2007INDIANAPOLIS - He is a Pro Bowl linebacker in the prime of his career. He is versatile enough to play in any defensive scheme.And Adalius Thomas probably has only a slightly better chance of landing in Pittsburgh than a spaceship, even though the Steelers are a team in transition and have a need at linebacker.Thomas is the marquee name in this year's free-agent class, but the Steelers' approach to this phase of player acquisition typically has been a restrained one.Which makes them unlikely to get into the bidding war that is sure to ensue over Thomas and other premier free agents such as cornerback Nate Clements when the signing period begins Friday."I think our personality is our personality in terms of free agency," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "It doesn't mean you can't get quality players."The Steelers showed that in recent years, signing guard/center Jeff Hartings (2001) and inside linebacker James Farrior (2002), but they haven't strayed from their philosophy of spending prudently as opposed to lavishly.Steelers president Art Rooney II flew into Indianapolis last Friday, so he could meet with Tomlin and director of football operations Kevin Colbert over the weekend and finalize the plan the team will take into free agency.Tomlin and Colbert are at the NFL Scouting Combine evaluating prospects for the draft. Their focus shifts this week to free agency, and in both areas the Steelers have been tight-lipped about what positions they will try to address."We're an 8-8 team. We've got to leave no stone unturned," Tomlin said last week on the subject of the Steelers and free agency. "We've got to look to upgrade most positions, so that's our mentality. Are we capable of doing that? No. We're in the process of prioritizing what we need to get done, so that's how we'll approach it."Tomlin has said the Steelers need another running back to complement Pro Bowler Willie Parker. That is as specific as he has gotten about where the Steelers have needs.The Steelers have started preliminary talks with seven players who will be free agents after the 2007 season.Colbert said discussions with representatives of guards Alan Faneca and Kendall Simmons, safety Troy Polamalu, linebackers Joey Porter and Clark Haggans, defensive end Aaron Smith and fullback Dan Kreider will determine where each side stands in regard to working out a contract extension and how feasible it is.The Steelers are not believed to have much room under the salary cap -- it is projected at $109 million this season -- but they could free up money for free agency in a number of ways, including agreeing to contract extensions with some of the aforementioned veterans."A player gets signed long-term, we get short-term relief," said Colbert, adding that a contract extension would allow the Steelers to lessen the amount of money that particular player would count against the salary cap next season. "So if you can do that, that's good."Porter, who gets a $1 million bonus if he is on the roster March 6, is set to make $4 million this season, while Smith is owed $3.5 million and Faneca is due $3.375 million in base salary.One reason the Steelers are unlikely to sign a top-tier free agent is the market itself.Free agency in the NFL is a bit if a misnomer because teams can still prevent a player whose contract has expired from leaving, thus driving up the value of the players that do hit the open market.A handful of teams have already used their franchise tag to hold onto players for at least another season.The franchise tag requires teams to pay a player the average of the top five salaries at his position, but they don't have to outbid other teams for him."Free agency as it was six, seven, eight years ago isn't the same because, No. 1, teams are keeping their good players, and No. 2, they are using the (franchise) tag when it's necessary and advantageous to do so," Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith said."I think everybody kind of has visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads and as you go through, Indy tags a player, Cincy does and all the sudden a lot of the difference-makers aren't there," Tennessee Titans general manager Mike Reinfeldt said. "That being said, if you do your homework in free agency, you can find players that will help your roster."The Steelers don't have any starters from last year that are unrestricted free agents, and only one (offensive tackle Max Starks) is a restricted free agent.Their free-agent losses will be minimal, though the same also could be true of their gains.The one thing that can be said about free agency in any year is that it is necessary for teams to have contingency plans -- and contingency plans for those contingency plans."No one really knows where it goes," Colbert said of free agency, "because once you start talking to a player, then maybe you decide you really want that player and then maybe you decide 'Well, I need more cap room to be able to afford that player, so how do you get more cap room, and that may dictate your decision."

 

[Godsbrother]

Yes. Backs that average 3.9 yards per carry are tough to come by. I dont know why you would be looking for a Bettis type when FWP has averaged 4.7 and 4.4 ypc the last 2 years (last year on 337 carries with 16 TD's). FWP is your running back. FWP's last year production is arguably better than anything Bettis did in his whole career.

You have the same problem a lot of people have around here in that you base you assesments of players strictly on statistics. Bettis was much more than a RB that averaged 3.9 ypc. That might not sound like much but in the 3rd and 4th quarter he just wore defenses out and ate up the clock. Once Cowher got a lead late in the second half he just handed the ball to Bettis and that 3.9 ypc on three downs would equal another first down. And it worked to perfection: Cowher's record with a lead in the second half was something like 95-1-1. Bettis had a lot to do with that. FWP is a great weapon but so far hasn't been the kind of guy you can call on to grind a game out. Bettis could also go toe-to-toe with a physical defense, dealing out punishment as well as being able to take it. FWP is just not that kind of back. There were games last season (Jax, SD, both games with Balt) where FWP was completely dominated. It wasn't all Parker's fault as the o-line didn't play particularly well but FWP just doesn't have the strength of a back like Bettis.There is no question in my mind that Parker should be the feature back for the Steelers. He's been great and should only get better but you can't convince me that Bettis was just an ordinary running back.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Yes. Backs that average 3.9 yards per carry are tough to come by. I dont know why you would be looking for a Bettis type when FWP has averaged 4.7 and 4.4 ypc the last 2 years (last year on 337 carries with 16 TD's). FWP is your running back. FWP's last year production is arguably better than anything Bettis did in his whole career.

You have the same problem a lot of people have around here in that you base you assesments of players strictly on statistics. Bettis was much more than a RB that averaged 3.9 ypc. That might not sound like much but in the 3rd and 4th quarter he just wore defenses out and ate up the clock. Once Cowher got a lead late in the second half he just handed the ball to Bettis and that 3.9 ypc on three downs would equal another first down. And it worked to perfection: Cowher's record with a lead in the second half was something like 95-1-1. Bettis had a lot to do with that. FWP is a great weapon but so far hasn't been the kind of guy you can call on to grind a game out. Bettis could also go toe-to-toe with a physical defense, dealing out punishment as well as being able to take it. FWP is just not that kind of back. There were games last season (Jax, SD, both games with Balt) where FWP was completely dominated. It wasn't all Parker's fault as the o-line didn't play particularly well but FWP just doesn't have the strength of a back like Bettis.There is no question in my mind that Parker should be the feature back for the Steelers. He's been great and should only get better but you can't convince me that Bettis was just an ordinary running back.

I guess you havent seen many of my posts. I am the exact opposite of someone who only looks at stats. I believe what my eyes tell me and after watching Bettis for the past 10 years, I never saw anything special about him. Did the Patriots just have his number? I have seen Bettis play in 50 games. Roughly a quarter of those he played. Obviously as a Pats fan, those are the games that stick out. He never DID a thing against them. He had too many sub 3.5 yard average years for me to look at him as an elite RB.The 3.9 ypc isnt why I think Bettis was an average RB it just backs up what I saw over the course of many years.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I never saw anything special about him

Then you didnt watch how often he ran against 8+ bigman fronts in short yardage situations that killed his ypa... but he got the needed 1, 2, or 3 yards to keep the drive going or to get the score. Because noone did it as much or better. Noone. Actually your just obsessin' in the Steeler thread, its kinda cool actually.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I never saw anything special about him

Then you didnt watch how often he ran against 8+ bigman fronts in short yardage situations that killed his ypa... but he got the needed 1, 2, or 3 yards to keep the drive going or to get the score. Because noone did it as much or better. Noone. Actually your just obsessin' in the Steeler thread, its kinda cool actually.

Just giving opinions. 8+ man fronts? Did Bettis play against 12 man fronts? Other than inside the 2 yard line, there arent many situations where the D plays 9 in the box and certainly not on a regular basis

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I never saw anything special about him

Then you didnt watch how often he ran against 8+ bigman fronts in short yardage situations that killed his ypa... but he got the needed 1, 2, or 3 yards to keep the drive going or to get the score. Because noone did it as much or better. Noone. Actually your just obsessin' in the Steeler thread, its kinda cool actually.

Just giving opinions. 8+ man fronts? Did Bettis play against 12 man fronts? Other than inside the 2 yard line, there arent many situations where the D plays 9 in the box and certainly not on a regular basis

As I said, you didnt watch then.He often saw "8+ bigman fronts" in short yardage and goalline. And also when they would grind away the clock in the 2nd half (sometimes in entirety) and everyone knew they were going to run and then play these packed defensive fronts... and he would still run and move the chains.

 

[Godsbrother]

I guess you havent seen many of my posts. I am the exact opposite of someone who only looks at stats. I believe what my eyes tell me and after watching Bettis for the past 10 years, I never saw anything special about him. Did the Patriots just have his number? I have seen Bettis play in 50 games. Roughly a quarter of those he played. Obviously as a Pats fan, those are the games that stick out. He never DID a thing against them.

While it is true that Bettis did not do well against the Patriots it is also true that the Steelers as a team did not do well against the Patriots in those games. As I said before, Bettis was best when the team had the lead in the second half and was able to wear down defenses. He didn't have much of an opportunity to do that against the Patriots because the Steelers were frequently playing from behind. And basing a 14 year career on a handful a games against one team is kinda dumb.

He had too many sub 3.5 yard average years for me to look at him as an elite RB.

Two of Bettis' three sub-3.5 yard average seasons came in the final three years of his career. In those seasons Bettis was used primarily as a short yardage back so of course his average would be down. His TD numbers weren't though, scoring 7, 13 and 9 TDs. There aren't a whole lot of RBs in the league 12+ seasons scoring that many TDs.In any case I am done arguing with you. I am not sure why you feel the need to come into a thread about the Steelers and dis both Roethlisberger and Bettis. You aren't going to convince a bunch of Steelers fans that Bettis was just an average back so why bother?

 

[jetpack]

Cardinals-Steelers date could be a highlight of opening weekend

INDIANAPOLIS — Word around the combine is the Arizona Cardinals might open the 2007 season Sunday night, Sept. 9, against the Pittsburgh Steelers at the University of Phoenix Stadium.

It makes sense. Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was an assistant with the Steelers, as was offensive line coach Russ Grimm. Both were thought to be possible successors to Bill Cowher, who stepped down. Instead, the Steelers hired Mike Tomlin.

Steelers fans are among the most supportive in the NFL, and Whisenhunt knows he has a ways to go to create that kind of passion in Arizona.

"There is a reason the Steelers have a loyal fan base, and it's because they won a lot of football games," Whisenhunt said Saturday. "Hopefully, we will put a product out there, a competitive, tough, smart team, that will win some games because we have some people that want to become fans."

The NFL usually doesn't announce its schedule until April.

Link Here

 

[Pat Patriot]

I guess you havent seen many of my posts. I am the exact opposite of someone who only looks at stats. I believe what my eyes tell me and after watching Bettis for the past 10 years, I never saw anything special about him. Did the Patriots just have his number? I have seen Bettis play in 50 games. Roughly a quarter of those he played. Obviously as a Pats fan, those are the games that stick out. He never DID a thing against them.

While it is true that Bettis did not do well against the Patriots it is also true that the Steelers as a team did not do well against the Patriots in those games. As I said before, Bettis was best when the team had the lead in the second half and was able to wear down defenses. He didn't have much of an opportunity to do that against the Patriots because the Steelers were frequently playing from behind. And basing a 14 year career on a handful a games against one team is kinda dumb.

He had too many sub 3.5 yard average years for me to look at him as an elite RB.

Two of Bettis' three sub-3.5 yard average seasons came in the final three years of his career. In those seasons Bettis was used primarily as a short yardage back so of course his average would be down. His TD numbers weren't though, scoring 7, 13 and 9 TDs. There aren't a whole lot of RBs in the league 12+ seasons scoring that many TDs.In any case I am done arguing with you. I am not sure why you feel the need to come into a thread about the Steelers and dis both Roethlisberger and Bettis. You aren't going to convince a bunch of Steelers fans that Bettis was just an average back so why bother?

Please show me where I dissed Roethlisberger? I said that this is a big year for Roethlisberger to show that last year was a fluke and mostly related to his injuries.

 

[wefcpa]

One thing we have to consider when we talk about getting another Bettis, or a Bettis clone is that now Tomlin is at the helm. Something tells me that Tomlin is not going to be as dedecated to the ground-and-pound game as Cower, and I dare say that he may try to unleash Ben and the passing game especially if our passing game is looking good after say....week 4. So perhaps a Bettis clone will loss it's importance.

The other thing is, Bettis is a hall of fame type running back, we may go through 10 or 15 runningbacks before we find one that can contribute as he did. Not only as a BUS of a running back, but as a natural leader. To me, they are allmost equally important attributes.

Yes. Backs that average 3.9 yards per carry are tough to come by. I dont know why you would be looking for a Bettis type when FWP has averaged 4.7 and 4.4 ypc the last 2 years (last year on 337 carries with 16 TD's). FWP is your running back. FWP's last year production is arguably better than anything Bettis did in his whole career.

I hate to agree with a Patriot fan, but this post is very accurate. I don't want to take anything away from Bettis and his career accomplishments but his performances in the 2 AFC champ games vs the Pats were awful. And let's not forget his fumble vs the colts which could have been a disaster if Ben doesn't make that tackle.

Maybe since the Steelers are set at QB, the new fan favorite for Steelers fans has become the backup RB. Personally, I think FWP is a legit, everydown, NFL RB and will be given even more of a chance to perform under Tomlin and the new regime.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Cardinals-Steelers date could be a highlight of opening weekend

INDIANAPOLIS — Word around the combine is the Arizona Cardinals might open the 2007 season Sunday night, Sept. 9, against the Pittsburgh Steelers at the University of Phoenix Stadium.

It makes sense. Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was an assistant with the Steelers, as was offensive line coach Russ Grimm. Both were thought to be possible successors to Bill Cowher, who stepped down. Instead, the Steelers hired Mike Tomlin.

Steelers fans are among the most supportive in the NFL, and Whisenhunt knows he has a ways to go to create that kind of passion in Arizona.

"There is a reason the Steelers have a loyal fan base, and it's because they won a lot of football games," Whisenhunt said Saturday. "Hopefully, we will put a product out there, a competitive, tough, smart team, that will win some games because we have some people that want to become fans."

The NFL usually doesn't announce its schedule until April.

Link Here

That would be way cool.

 

[Memphis Foundry]

I've got nothing against Willie Parker, who is as legitimate an NFL back as they come. But in the NFL today, having two guys that can run the ball for you at a very high level -- especially when they feature different styles -- makes it more difficult for other teams to gameplan you. Having two backs particularly benefits teams like the Steelers who feature the run. And being able to put a big back in to chew up the yards and run out the clock is just the essence of Steeler football. That's why I want the Steelers to grab a quality big back, not because I think less of Willie Parker.

We've got something special in Parker, who proved his durability last season by carrying the ball 337 times and adding 31 more receptions. So why run him into the ground? And like GodsBrother said, there were a few games last year where Parker was completely ineffective because the defense was able to gameplan him and we didn't have much of an alternative. We'll get Haynes back this season for 3rd and 5+ situations and we should have a #2 back no worse than Davenport, but if we have the opportunity to get a better big back, we should take it. I think it's that important.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

Tomlin once again answers the prayers of many Steeler fans when he said that to be competitive the Steelers need two backs, and by saying they are in need means that he knows Davenport is not the answer. I see the Steelers drafting a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round and possibly signing a free agent. Hopefully its more of the former than the latter. Free Agents dont win superbowls, home grown talent supplemented by the right free agents does. I dont see many FA RBs as the type that will help this team. Dillon is old and overpriced, contemplating retirement, Ahman Green is INJ prone, Duckett is probly the best of the bunch but theres no evidence hes any better than Davenport.

As for Pat Patriot, Bettis was the man on 3-2, 4-1 situations, and everyone stacked the line and it didnt matter. He would get that tough yardage 9 times out of 10. Just because the Pats had some good games against the Steelers with Bettis doesnt mean he was bad, they just knew the gameplan and had his #, most teams did not. If you want to keep bashing bettis, bring up the Tiki hall of fame thread, otherwise, let it go buddy.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Tomlin once again answers the prayers of many Steeler fans when he said that to be competitive the Steelers need two backs, and by saying they are in need means that he knows Davenport is not the answer. I see the Steelers drafting a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round and possibly signing a free agent. Hopefully its more of the former than the latter. Free Agents dont win superbowls, home grown talent supplemented by the right free agents does. I dont see many FA RBs as the type that will help this team. Dillon is old and overpriced, contemplating retirement, Ahman Green is INJ prone, Duckett is probly the best of the bunch but theres no evidence hes any better than Davenport.

As for Pat Patriot, Bettis was the man on 3-2, 4-1 situations, and everyone stacked the line and it didnt matter. He would get that tough yardage 9 times out of 10. Just because the Pats had some good games against the Steelers with Bettis doesnt mean he was bad, they just knew the gameplan and had his #, most teams did not. If you want to keep bashing bettis, bring up the Tiki hall of fame thread, otherwise, let it go buddy.

If Dillon is released every team can negotiate their own contract with him. You wouldnt have to pay him the $4 million he is on the books for with the Patriots.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

Im just saying that Dillon recently said "he doesnt have to play anymore", and asked to be released out of a 4 million dollar contract with the Pats. I dont understand that, either A. he thinks he can make more playing elsewhere, B. he wants to start somewhere, or perhaps C. he just has had enough and doesnt wanna bother in 2007. I think its a combo of A and B, he wants to make more money to start somewhere, if not, more money, if not, he just retires to his mansion somwhere. Hes right, he doesnt have to play, but his agent said "he has a few more good years as an elite back" which may or may not be true.

In any case I doubt the Steelers offer him anything. Not that I wouldnt mind having him, if the price is right (which it probably wont be) that would be sweet. My bet is he makes top buck somewhere or retires.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Im just saying that Dillon recently said "he doesnt have to play anymore", and asked to be released out of a 4 million dollar contract with the Pats. I dont understand that, either A. he thinks he can make more playing elsewhere, B. he wants to start somewhere, or perhaps C. he just has had enough and doesnt wanna bother in 2007. I think its a combo of A and B, he wants to make more money to start somewhere, if not, more money, if not, he just retires to his mansion somwhere. Hes right, he doesnt have to play, but his agent said "he has a few more good years as an elite back" which may or may not be true.

In any case I doubt the Steelers offer him anything. Not that I wouldnt mind having him, if the price is right (which it probably wont be) that would be sweet. My bet is he makes top buck somewhere or retires.

I dont think anybody is giving him top buck so retirement is most likely.