massraider
Footballguy
For Ellerbe and a 3rd rounder.
Ellerbe must be taking a pay cut.
Ellerbe must be taking a pay cut.
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Stills traded to Miami (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
T-minus 48 hours to Mike Wallace blasts off the roster.
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massraider
Footballguy
Maybe. They only gain 2.5 in cap space if they cut him, so why not keep him for one more year? Stills, along with Cameron and Landry will be fine if they decide to cut him, but I don't see the rush to cut him. There's no point. In fact, they can threaten him with being cut in August, when no one is looking to spend. Cutting him now only does him a favor. I think Wallace is probably on his best behavior.
VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
anyone think they trade Wallace to a team like the Browns or Raiders who need to take on some money
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FUBAR
Footballguy
would think that's a possibility.
At least Ellerbe and a 3rd makes sense for the Saints.
massraider
Footballguy
Via Armando Salguero:
Now I'm being told there were questions about Kenny Stills's work habits. Apparently enjoys the nightlife. No worries in Miami.
Now I'm being told there were questions about Kenny Stills's work habits. Apparently enjoys the nightlife. No worries in Miami.
cstu
Footballguy
Only $3M of his $9.9M salary is guaranteed. It won't help the cap but that's $6.9M in real money savings.
cstu
Footballguy
Would be smarter than cutting him, but what are they going to get for him with that contract, a 7th if they're lucky?
massraider
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Toons value climbing......
cstu
Footballguy
Their cap is at $150M right now. It a virtual certainty he's not on the team when the season starts.
massraider
Footballguy
The $3M guaranteed is irrelevant. Wallace's contract has offset language, so the Dolphins won't have to pay a penny of it. The Dolphins will save $5.5 M in cap and $9.9 M in cash if/when they cut or trade him.
After the trade, the Dolphins have around $11 M in cap space. If you subtract the $7 M cap hold for Clay, they have around $18 M, so they could keep Wallace without much difficulty, but I doubt they will. Much of that extra space should be rolled over to deal with Suh's big cap hit next year. Wallace isn't worth $10 M a year;Stills becomes the replacement deep threat. I would be very surprised if Wallace returns at this point.
After the trade, the Dolphins have around $11 M in cap space. If you subtract the $7 M cap hold for Clay, they have around $18 M, so they could keep Wallace without much difficulty, but I doubt they will. Much of that extra space should be rolled over to deal with Suh's big cap hit next year. Wallace isn't worth $10 M a year;Stills becomes the replacement deep threat. I would be very surprised if Wallace returns at this point.
Max Power
Footballguy
I don't get it for the Saints. Ellerbe isn't that good and even after a restructure, its still taking on salary.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Seantavius Jones, anyone?NE_REVIVAL said:
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Seems logical that they're looking to land Cooper, White, or Parker with they're first pick. AS a fan, that's fine by me.cvnpoka said:
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Doubt itNE_REVIVAL said:
VarsityBlues123
Footballguy
i have heard this story for the past three years now. toon looks like he cant make it in the nfl. looks slower than colston.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Bump WR Brandin Cooks.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
There really isn't anything to doubt, he is worth more today than he was last week and it would be pretty difficult to argue otherwise (but your welcome to try if u want).
Whether he is worth more a month from now, or even still on the team is definitely open to debate; as are any long term prospects.
IMHO, I already felt Toon was a decent sleeper candidate, especially if Colston left. Now with Graham and Stills gone and even with an aging Colston, his value has to be rising, at least a little.
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cstu
Footballguy
No one should hold out hope for Toon - he's 27 this year and should have flashed something in 3 years.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
Name to remember in Nawrlins: Brandon Coleman.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
He began to at the end of last year: 4-4-3 catches in Weeks 14-16. Not fantastic, but with Graham and Stills gone, Colston getting long in tooth, Toon may be next man up.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Go ahead and buy Toon wherever you can then.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Already have him on 2 Dynasty rosters (of course u probably guessed that
) and thought sure I would be cutting him at roster cut down time, but now I think I have to try and hold on to him if I can. You may be absolutely right and odds are he doesn't do much, but there is at least a flicker of hope imho.
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Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
Low cost (or no cost, I got him of the WW yesterday in one league when I heard Stills was on the trade block), potentially nice upside guy to target.Already have him on 2 Dynasty rosters (of course u probably guessed that
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Nah. They're drafting a WR in round 1. That guy will be a gold mine.NE_REVIVAL said:
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
They can only throw so many balls to Cooks and Spiller. They have no redzone target now, other than an aging Colston (Graham's backups were adequate part timers but aren't real threats if they're the only guys to look at down there).
People say the Saints want to run more, but they've been running the ball a lot for years, just split between different RB's so it never resulted in a fantasy monster.
The Still trade seems to have been more about locker room culture than not feeling they need a weapon on the outside.
I think the Saints are definitely in play for Parker if he's still around at #13.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. They are turning that team upside down and unloading many players because of cap issues, and their defense last year was horrible. I don't see them investing 1st round value and cap space on WR again when they need to correct the offense / defense imbalance. Fine if folks don't think guys like Toon, B Coleman, S Jones, TE Hill can fill the WR / TE void, I get that, but I think they are resigned to living with what they have at least for a year while they get their financial house in order and start to fix the defense. Their need on defense > their need for another WR.
Also I'll add that they have always been pretty amazing identifying supposed nobodies who can make contributions (Pierre Thomas, Ivory were UDFAs, Colston was a 7th rounder), and it's possible they are looking at Brandon Coleman as another one of those diamonds in the rough who can step in and contribute at WR.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
You may be right, and you are probably more plugged into the situation than I am.
Honestly nothing the Saints are doing right now makes a ton of sense unless they're clearing out cancers in the locker room.
They're clearing cap space by moving guys like their OG's and Graham, but they are signing guys like Spiller and Browner and Ingram?
They have a cheap promising young WR and they trade him for a 3rd? (which is a good price btw, I'm just saying it doesn't fit the cap storyline)
It just seems like they think they have the wrong guys in the building. Stuff like Stills being a party animal and having a bad work ethic is coming to light.
I'm just saying I don't see a concrete plan here to move $$/talent/value from the offense to the defense like you're saying, I see a general tearing apart of the roster that goes way beyond the cap situation they started in. So I don't think you can assume they have an obvious plan for the defense or offense, just seems like they're retooling in general on both sides of the ball.
cstu
Footballguy
The Graham move doesn't make sense to me, but I like everything else they've done. They could use the 3rd they got for Stills to draft a better all-around WR than Stills. They have one of the best backfields in the league now at a reasonable price (under $9M for Ingram/Spiller/Robinson).
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Not likely? I'm willing to bet any amount of money that they address with one of their two 1st round picks. In fact, they seem to be acquiring a lot of picks for this draft. I wouldn't doubt it's to secure one that they like. Absolutely they need help on defense, but there is a retooling of the offense going on. I think you couldn't be more wrong.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
I agree the Stills deal had nothing to do with salary and that there were other underlying things rumored. He's a separate matter. Aside from that, from what I've been reading it's been about cap issues mostly, and the fact that despite a great offense last year they still had a losing record so they need to re-emphasize running game and defense (hence Ingram and Spiller) which says to me a WR is not in play for the 1st pick.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I agree. What they're doing only doesn't make sense if you're looking at it from a "they're tearing it apart because they're in cap hell" viewpoint. Because they're adding contracts they "shouldn't" if they're that concerned about the cap. Clearly they aren't tearing it down and starting over, which they would never do with Brees on board anyways.
So there's more to it than just the cap, and it's obvious there's more to it than just shifting in focus from the offense to the defense.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
I won't lose sleep if I'm wrong, I'm wrong every day about something, but I think drafting WR in round 1 is not happening.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Just weird to me the Saints still think Colston has something left. But he'll be sufficient in blocking.
Not surprised with Stills deal.Decent, not great player. 3rd rounder is a nice return.
Imagine they'll look for another WR in the middle rounds. And pray Cooks stays healthy.
Not surprised with Stills deal.Decent, not great player. 3rd rounder is a nice return.
Imagine they'll look for another WR in the middle rounds. And pray Cooks stays healthy.
cstu
Footballguy
I think you couldn't be more wrong - the team has bigger needs than WR and can get a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round (they have the #44, #75, and #78).
This is a strong WR draft and here are the WR's drafted #44-78 since 2010.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Why in the world wouldn't you give Brees more targets? I can't predict the future, but I don't see any logic in saying WR won't be addressed early.
Why did the Giants draft ODB last year? Why did Atlanta trade up to get Julio? Both of those teams had a better WR core than NO does.
Why did the Giants draft ODB last year? Why did Atlanta trade up to get Julio? Both of those teams had a better WR core than NO does.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
The team had bigger needs than Cooks last year and traded up to get him. I'd rather them trade up to get Cooper after looking at that list. Not saying there aren't some good WRs on that list.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
This is most likely wrong but my first thought (when I heard the Saints were getting a 3rd) was Kenny Stills for Kenny Bell.
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cstu
Footballguy
In 2013 they were #4 in points allowed, in 2014 they were 28th. When they drafted Cooks they thought they had a good defense going into 2014.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalguero 1h1 hour ago
Mike Wallace has been on the phone with Minnesota Vikings the last hour. Trade likely.
Mike Wallace has been on the phone with Minnesota Vikings the last hour. Trade likely.
Bruce Hammond
Footballguy
The simple answer is because the NFL isn't just fantasy football, and there are more positions to consider than just WR. I'm not motivated to go deep into the topic -- the Saints aren't even my team -- but I urge you to go to sites that delve deep into the team and research some more. I'm not sure you're seeing the whole picture. It doesn't do the team a lot of good to put up 401 points when they go 7-9 because they gave up 424... and a lot of the Brees INTs were due to having to try to keep up because the defense couldn't stop anybody.
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