Stretching out for the first down. (1 Viewer)

[meeka]

A play in football I have always wondered about, and the commentators seem to always agree with the spot the refs give, is when a qb stretches for a first down over a pile and then pulls the ball back.

The play I am talking about happened in the Saints/Seahawks game last night and I have seen it many times. On 3rd/4th and inches the qb takes the snap and dives on the pile and stretches out the ball past the first down line. Not wanting to keep the ball exposed the qb pulls it back in, but the ref still marks it to where they stretch the ball out to. They are saying his forward progress got the first down, but when he pulls the ball back why does it still count? A wr can catch a ball past the first down line, but if he goes behind it by his own will and is tackled then he does not get credited for the first down because of forward progress. Why is the qb pulling the ball back any different?

Maybe there is a rule that I am unaware of. TIA.

 

[EdwardCat]

I have to....it is stretch.

 

[strong]

A play in football I have always wondered about, and the commentators seem to always agree with the spot the refs give, is when a qb streatches for a first down over a pile and then pulls the ball back. The play I am talking about happened in the Saints/Seahawks game last night and I have seen it many times. On 3rd/4th and inches the qb takes the snap and dives on the pile and streatches out the ball past the first down line. Not wanting to keep the ball exposed the qb pulls it back in, but the ref still marks it to where they streatch the ball out to. They are saying his forward progress got the first down, but when he pulls the ball back why does it still count? A wr can catch a ball past the first down line, but if he goes behind it by his own will and is tackled then he does not get credited for the first down because of forward progress. Why is the qb pulling the ball back any different?Maybe there is a rule that I am unaware of. TIA.

I noticed that last night too.Quite frankly, whatever the rule or how the refs interpret it, it should be changed.

 

[meeka]

I have to....it is stretch.

TY

 

[fred_1_15301]

A play in football I have always wondered about, and the commentators seem to always agree with the spot the refs give, is when a qb stretches for a first down over a pile and then pulls the ball back. The play I am talking about happened in the Saints/Seahawks game last night and I have seen it many times. On 3rd/4th and inches the qb takes the snap and dives on the pile and stretches out the ball past the first down line. Not wanting to keep the ball exposed the qb pulls it back in, but the ref still marks it to where they stretch the ball out to. They are saying his forward progress got the first down, but when he pulls the ball back why does it still count? A wr can catch a ball past the first down line, but if he goes behind it by his own will and is tackled then he does not get credited for the first down because of forward progress. Why is the qb pulling the ball back any different?Maybe there is a rule that I am unaware of. TIA.

On another note, I know the whole shortest distance bet/ 2 points rule applies but isn't it extremely dangerous to have your qb jump and dangle the ball forward (albeit for only an instance) in your own territory?

 

[mrspree15]

Yep, thought the same thing. Brees wasn't pushed backwards, he pulled the ball behind the 1st down on his own.

 

[meeka]

Yep, thought the same thing. Brees wasn't pushed backwards, he pulled the ball behind the 1st down on his own.

They seem to treat it like an endzone play. The announcers always backup the spot by the ref, so I assumed there was a rule I did not know.

 

[EdwardCat]

I have to....it is stretch.

TY

No problem. And, you have a good point. Would a RB get credit for a TD if they stretch it over the white stripe and pull it back to prevent a potential fumble when the ball crashes into the ground? Has anyone ever seen this happen?

 

[redman]

I have to....it is stretch.

TY

No problem. And, you have a good point. Would a RB get credit for a TD if they stretch it over the white stripe and pull it back to prevent a potential fumble when the ball crashes into the ground? Has anyone ever seen this happen?

The answer to your question is "yes". The moment that the football breaks the plane of the goalline and is in possession of the offensive team, the play is over and a TD is scored. It doesn't matter what happens after that moment.

 

[mrspree15]

I have to....it is stretch.

TY

No problem. And, you have a good point. Would a RB get credit for a TD if they stretch it over the white stripe and pull it back to prevent a potential fumble when the ball crashes into the ground? Has anyone ever seen this happen?

Yeah that happens all the time. But why can a player run backwards after getting the first down and they won't get the spot, but what Brees did will give him the spot?

 

[mon]

It's still considered forward progress as long as an opposing player is in contact with him at the time, even if it's incidental contact or even if it's just jerseys/pants touching or whatever, and he falls to the ground immediately afterwards for the down.

Edit to note: this is a totally different ruling than crossing the plane of the goal line.

 

[certificate]

I have to....it is stretch.

TY

No problem. And, you have a good point. Would a RB get credit for a TD if they stretch it over the white stripe and pull it back to prevent a potential fumble when the ball crashes into the ground? Has anyone ever seen this happen?

Yeah I'm pretty sure they would, but that makes more sense to me because you score a TD the instant the ball crosses the plane, and the play is over at that point. The play isn't over when you get a first down.....

 

[certificate]

It's still considered forward progress as long as an opposing player is in contact with him at the time, even if it's incidental contact or even if it's just jerseys/pants touching or whatever, and he falls to the ground immediately afterwards for the down.

That makes sense.

 

[meeka]

It's still considered forward progress as long as an opposing player is in contact with him at the time, even if it's incidental contact or even if it's just jerseys/pants touching or whatever, and he falls to the ground immediately afterwards for the down.Edit to note: this is a totally different ruling than crossing the plane of the goal line.

If this is in fact the rule, then I think I have my answer.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Forward progress.

 

[pollardsvision]

A play in football I have always wondered about, and the commentators seem to always agree with the spot the refs give, is when a qb stretches for a first down over a pile and then pulls the ball back. The play I am talking about happened in the Saints/Seahawks game last night and I have seen it many times. On 3rd/4th and inches the qb takes the snap and dives on the pile and stretches out the ball past the first down line. Not wanting to keep the ball exposed the qb pulls it back in, but the ref still marks it to where they stretch the ball out to. They are saying his forward progress got the first down, but when he pulls the ball back why does it still count? A wr can catch a ball past the first down line, but if he goes behind it by his own will and is tackled then he does not get credited for the first down because of forward progress. Why is the qb pulling the ball back any different?Maybe there is a rule that I am unaware of. TIA.

i thought every player was granted the benefit of forward progress. whether it's a qb stretching over a pile or a WR stretching for a 1st down.assuming that's the case, i'm fine with it b/c it makes the game better. it allows extra effort at the risk of a fumble. if players in the field weren't given forward progress, they wouldn't risk losing yards by trying for extra. they would simply go down the minute they thought they'd be knocked backwards.

 

[meeka]

A play in football I have always wondered about, and the commentators seem to always agree with the spot the refs give, is when a qb stretches for a first down over a pile and then pulls the ball back. The play I am talking about happened in the Saints/Seahawks game last night and I have seen it many times. On 3rd/4th and inches the qb takes the snap and dives on the pile and stretches out the ball past the first down line. Not wanting to keep the ball exposed the qb pulls it back in, but the ref still marks it to where they stretch the ball out to. They are saying his forward progress got the first down, but when he pulls the ball back why does it still count? A wr can catch a ball past the first down line, but if he goes behind it by his own will and is tackled then he does not get credited for the first down because of forward progress. Why is the qb pulling the ball back any different?Maybe there is a rule that I am unaware of. TIA.

i thought every player was granted the benefit of forward progress. whether it's a qb stretching over a pile or a WR stretching for a 1st down.assuming that's the case, i'm fine with it b/c it makes the game better. it allows extra effort at the risk of a fumble. if players in the field weren't given forward progress, they wouldn't risk losing yards by trying for extra. they would simply go down the minute they thought they'd be knocked backwards.

Yes, players are granted forward progress. My issue was when a player by his own will pulls the ball back, but I believe Mon identified the rule that I was missing.

 

[Modog814]

They give it to them because they are saying their forward progress was stopped. If however Brees had pulled the ball back and tried to run around the end for a big gain and was tackled behind the line of scrimmage then they wouldn't have given him the foward progress or first down.