Such a proud day to be an American (1 Viewer)

[Dooook]

If one is into diversity for diversity sake, yeah, this is fairly important moment.  However, I'm of the opinion that we might want to wait to see what these ladies are made of prior to heralding this event as some sort of great moment in our history.  Some of my tempered excitement is due a number of these ladies being a little more progressive than I like, the other reservations I have with regard to some of them is their lack of experience.

Of this group, I expect that Rashida Tlaib will be the most impactful in her first term and will in the long run probably be the most effective of this class.  She has plenty of political/legislative experience and holds a JD, she isn't dumb and knows how the "system" works.  I'm not a big fan of Democratic Socialists, but, she is what she is. 

With regard to the "white men" issue on the Republican side...  Have you fully paid attention to the females who run under the Republican banner?  It seems to me that the smartest thing Republicans have done is to NOT vote for many of them.  Could you imagine if a person of Sarah Palin's depth had been VP, would you want the people of Alaska to vote her into office as a Senator or Congresswoman?  Did you pay attention to the crazy that was going on in the Texas Senatorial race?  Did you listen to what came out of Marsha Blackburn's mouth while she was campaigning?  People, be happy that there aren't more Republican women in office from the "red states." 

 

[Dedfin]

You guys do have your lists updated, right? Cool.

 

[JuniorNB]

30 years of progress- women in the House of Representatives:

1989:

16 Democrats

13 Republicans

2019:

89 Democrats

13 Republicans

Lol. Wow. Such a perfect portrait of the two parties.  

 

[sho nuff]

What’s your conclusion then?

GOP congress lacks diversity compared to the democrats.

 

[stlrams]

Well, we can be sure that what the party stands for does not interest people other than white males nearly as much as the Ds. Why is this? That could be a great topic for a new thread. I think we could both agree that just based on any polling numbers, Rs appeal to white males and very little else.

It’s much more complicated then what the party stands for.  Yes republicans poll a higher percentage of white males then dems particularly in Deep South states but your premise it’s only white males is inaccurate as white males consitute 31% of us population currently.  In fact, whites have been fleeing the dems for the last 20 years. 

 

[stlrams]

GOP congress lacks diversity compared to the democrats.

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

 

[Da Guru]

The first ever congresswoman of Somali descent just tweeted a picture from two decades ago when she and her parents came to the airport in Washington DC to eventually become citizens. This morning she and her parents arrived at the same airport to witness her swearing in to the Congress. 

Somali Americans. Muslim Americans. Lesbians. Women. Today is historic. It’s the new America and I am really proud. Just wanted to stop the usual political discussion and make that point. It’s a wonderful, amazing day. 

If she had lost by 25 votes would you still be proud?

 

[sho nuff]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

I think its important for a diverse country to be represented by a diverse group of people.

And yes, the issues are important which is why the current GOP won't earn a vote from me until their issues change.  The suck on issues and diversity.

 

[Skoo]

What’s your conclusion then?

GOP voters don't elect minority candidates at nearly the rate that Dem voters do.

Which are the very clear facts.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Henry Ford]

If one is into diversity for diversity sake, yeah, this is fairly important moment.  However, I'm of the opinion that we might want to wait to see what these ladies are made of prior to heralding this event as some sort of great moment in our history.  Some of my tempered excitement is due a number of these ladies being a little more progressive than I like, the other reservations I have with regard to some of them is their lack of experience.

Of this group, I expect that Rashida Tlaib will be the most impactful in her first term and will in the long run probably be the most effective of this class.  She has plenty of political/legislative experience and holds a JD, she isn't dumb and knows how the "system" works.  I'm not a big fan of Democratic Socialists, but, she is what she is. 

With regard to the "white men" issue on the Republican side...  Have you fully paid attention to the females who run under the Republican banner?  It seems to me that the smartest thing Republicans have done is to NOT vote for many of them.  Could you imagine if a person of Sarah Palin's depth had been VP, would you want the people of Alaska to vote her into office as a Senator or Congresswoman?  Did you pay attention to the crazy that was going on in the Texas Senatorial race?  Did you listen to what came out of Marsha Blackburn's mouth while she was campaigning?  People, be happy that there aren't more Republican women in office from the "red states." 

You seem to be under the impression that there’s a significant difference in intelligence and ability between the women of the Republican Party and the men of the Republican Party. 

I don’t know if that’s accurate, but I suggest we use this series of tubes to research the possibility.  Perhaps we can ask the Google executives why my iPhone doesn’t work properly or why searching makes these Republicans look so bad. 

 

[SWC]

GOP congress lacks diversity compared to the democrats.

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important

some argue that diversity is an issue brohan just sort of a heads up take that to the bank bromigo

 

[apalmer]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

I think its important for a diverse country to be represented by a diverse group of people.

And yes, the issues are important which is why the current GOP won't earn a vote from me until their issues change.  The suck on issues and diversity.

You can't treat "the issues" and lack of diversity as unrelated facts. It's a reasonable inference that the GOP's position on "issues" is the reason there is such little diversity. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

Because diversity makes it more likely that the issues facing all Americans get discussed.  That’s what the House is supposed to be for. 

 

[SWC]

The first ever congresswoman of Somali descent just tweeted a picture from two decades ago when she and her parents came to the airport in Washington DC to eventually become citizens. This morning she and her parents arrived at the same airport to witness her swearing in to the Congress. 

Somali Americans. Muslim Americans. Lesbians. Women. Today is historic. It’s the new America and I am really proud. Just wanted to stop the usual political discussion and make that point. It’s a wonderful, amazing day. 

If she had lost by 25 votes would you still be proud?

yes but not quite as proud as the fact that albeit grudgingly america seems to actually be moving forward with respect to diversity and inclusion although admittedly there is still about 35 percent looking for a wall and moat and quite possibly a drawbridge and a dragon if anyone can find one take that to the bank bromigo 

 

[Skoo]

You can't treat "the issues" and lack of diversity as unrelated facts. It's a reasonable inference that the GOP's position on "issues" is the reason there is such little diversity. 

 

[Dedfin]

It’s much more complicated then what the party stands for.  Yes republicans poll a higher percentage of white males then dems particularly in Deep South states but your premise it’s only white males is inaccurate as white males consitute 31% of us population currently.  In fact, whites have been fleeing the dems for the last 20 years. 

I didn't say only. But sure, go ahead and show me statistics that the R party appeals to people other than white males more than any other party.

 

[Dedfin]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

OOF

 

[SWC]

Well, we can be sure that what the party stands for does not interest people other than white males nearly as much as the Ds. Why is this? That could be a great topic for a new thread. I think we could both agree that just based on any polling numbers, Rs appeal to white males and very little else.

It’s much more complicated then what the party stands for.  Yes republicans poll a higher percentage of white males then dems particularly in Deep South states but your premise it’s only white males is inaccurate as white males consitute 31% of us population currently.  In fact, whites have been fleeing the dems for the last 20 years. 

this sort of reads like a tacit admission that the rupublican party now stands for whites fear of change and inclusion i am just sayin take that to the bank bromigo 

 

[Amused to Death]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

Who's issues?  Different segments of society have diverse issues.  Some people tend to brush off things that aren't important to them or their constituents.

 

[Dooook]

You seem to be under the impression that there’s a significant difference in intelligence and ability between the women of the Republican Party and the men of the Republican Party. 

I don’t know if that’s accurate, but I suggest we use this series of tubes to research the possibility.  Perhaps we can ask the Google executives why my iPhone doesn’t work properly or why searching makes these Republicans look so bad. 

Are crazy and intelligence inextricably linked? 

 

[timschochet]

If she had lost by 25 votes would you still be proud?

I don’t know. I don’t understand the point of your question. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Why is it important that gop have diversity for you?  Isn’t it really the issues that are important...

Who's issues?  Different segments of society have diverse issues.  Some people tend to brush off things that aren't important to them or their constituents.

For example, do you think its good that women now have a larger voice in issues that affect women?  Or LGBT have a voice in issues that affect their community?

 

[Da Guru]

I don’t know. I don’t understand the point of your question. 

You said are proud to be an American because you liked the way the vote went. Just asking had she lost a close race would you still be proud to be an  American?

I voted for Gretchen Whitmer for Governor of Michigan and she won..but I do not feel any more pride nor would I feel any less had she lost.

 

[Henry Ford]

Are crazy and intelligence inextricably linked? 

No.  Why would that be true?

 

[Henry Ford]

You said are proud to be an American because you liked the way the vote went. Just asking had she lost a close race would you still be proud to be an  American?

I voted for Gretchen Whitmer for Governor of Michigan and she won..but I do not feel any more pride nor would I feel any less had she lost.

I think this is sort of like expressing pride in a child who gets a high score on a test. Yes, you would still be proud of the child otherwise, but that is a particular moment of which one can express pride in addition to the general feeling of parental pride. 

 

[Amused to Death]

If one is into diversity for diversity sake, yeah, this is fairly important moment.  However, I'm of the opinion that we might want to wait to see what these ladies are made of prior to heralding this event as some sort of great moment in our history.  Some of my tempered excitement is due a number of these ladies being a little more progressive than I like, the other reservations I have with regard to some of them is their lack of experience.

Yes, some are more progressive and even though it's more then you like, others voted for this.  It goes to the point of more diversity being a good thing.  It represents more of what America is really like.

 

[stlrams]

I didn't say only. But sure, go ahead and show me statistics that the R party appeals to people other than white males more than any other party.

I already did.  31% of us population is white male, let’s say 80% vote r that’s means almost 5o% of all the people supporting r is non white male. 

 

[timschochet]

You said are proud to be an American because you liked the way the vote went. Just asking had she lost a close race would you still be proud to be an  American?

I voted for Gretchen Whitmer for Governor of Michigan and she won..but I do not feel any more pride nor would I feel any less had she lost.

Ah. I see you misunderstood my OP. 

It has nothing to do with the way the vote went, at least in political terms. It has to do with the fact that a woman who came here as a Somali refugee could become a Congresswoman in two decades. I honestly would be just as proud if she had become a famous inventor or Pulitzer Prize novelist. The point is that we welcomed her in and look what she’s done. That’s the America that I’m so proud of, that’s the essence of who we’re supposed to be, and frankly it’s the exact opposite of the crap and fear that President Trump continues to spread. 

The second part of my post, about the growing diversity of the House, is important and wonderful because it’s historic. But it has little to do with their politics. I probably disagree with a lot of their politics; so what? 

 

[Dooook]

No.  Why would that be true?

I don't think that there is necessarily a drop off in intelligence between "all" Republican men and women.  I don't necessarily believe that "all" Republican women candidates are crazy.  I do believe that from listening to a number of female Republican candidates in  primaries and general elections that they were not as "qualified" to hold office as their challenger in the primary or general.  The Republicans, in most cases, simply don't run many appealing female candidates.

 

[Henry Ford]

I already did.  31% of us population is white male, let’s say 80% vote r that’s means almost 5o% of all the people supporting r is non white male. 

You’re missing half the sentence. “More than any other party.”

 

[stlrams]

Because diversity makes it more likely that the issues facing all Americans get discussed.  That’s what the House is supposed to be for. 

So whats more important the candidate and their stance on issues or diversity? 

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't think that there is necessarily a drop off in intelligence between "all" Republican men and women.  I don't necessarily believe that "all" Republican women candidates are crazy.  I do believe that from listening to a number of female Republican candidates in  primaries and general elections that they were not as "qualified" to hold office as their challenger in the primary or general.  The Republicans, in most cases, simply don't run many appealing female candidates.

Do you believe that in general Republican men are more qualified than Republican women to hold office?

 

[Henry Ford]

So whats more important the candidate and their stance on issues or diversity? 

Important to what?

 

[Da Guru]

Ah. I see you misunderstood my OP. 

It has nothing to do with the way the vote went, at least in political terms. It has to do with the fact that a woman who came here as a Somali refugee could become a Congresswoman in two decades. I honestly would be just as proud if she had become a famous inventor or Pulitzer Prize novelist. The point is that we welcomed her in and look what she’s done. That’s the America that I’m so proud of, that’s the essence of who we’re supposed to be, and frankly it’s the exact opposite of the crap and fear that President Trump continues to spread. 

The second part of my post, about the growing diversity of the House, is important and wonderful because it’s historic. But it has little to do with their politics. I probably disagree with a lot of their politics; so what? 

Got it...

 

[stlrams]

Important to what?

When voting?

 

[Dedfin]

I already did.  31% of us population is white male, let’s say 80% vote r that’s means almost 5o% of all the people supporting r is non white male. 

Please re-read my question stlrams. I know you are arguing in good faith, I just think you are either missing my question or misunderstanding it. Thanks

 

[Dooook]

Yes, some are more progressive and even though it's more then you like, others voted for this.  It goes to the point of more diversity being a good thing.  It represents more of what America is really like.

And there were many posting 12 years ago about how proud they were about the tea party candidates... I wasn't too thrilled about that either, even though it added diversity of thought to the Republican party line.  Diversity can be an impediment to progress, it has undoubtedly led to dysfunction on the right, it could also lead to dysfunction on the left.  While it is a positive that all voices are heard, the manner in which their representatives attempt to push those agendas can be either deleterious or beneficial.  That is why simply having these new voices is not yet a proven positive and why I feel we need to wait and see how this new class goes about implementing the voices of those who they were sent to DC to represent. 

Also, I like my Democrats to be of the FDR stripe and my Republicans to be of the Eisenhower stripe, you start getting left or right of that I get all discombobulated and want to move into a shack in the middle of the Blue Ridge Mountain range and build model airplanes. 

 

[Dooook]

Do you believe that in general Republican men are more qualified than Republican women to hold office?

No.

 

[stlrams]

Please re-read my question stlrams. I know you are arguing in good faith, I just think you are either missing my question or misunderstanding it. Thanks

My bad.  But since there’s only 2 parties, I don’t see it as relavent.  

 

[Amused to Death]

And there were many posting 12 years ago about how proud they were about the tea party candidates... I wasn't too thrilled about that either, even though it added diversity of thought to the Republican party line.  Diversity can be an impediment to progress, it has undoubtedly led to dysfunction on the right, it could also lead to dysfunction on the left.  While it is a positive that all voices are heard, the manner in which their representatives attempt to push those agendas can be either deleterious or beneficial.  That is why simply having these new voices is not yet a proven positive and why I feel we need to wait and see how this new class goes about implementing the voices of those who they were sent to DC to represent. 

Also, I like my Democrats to be of the FDR stripe and my Republicans to be of the Eisenhower stripe, you start getting left or right of that I get all discombobulated and want to move into a shack in the middle of the Blue Ridge Mountain range and build model airplanes. 

I think new voices is a positive.  Its yet to be determined if the right voices have been added.  But more diversity representing a better view of who America really is is a good thing.  Its like those photos of a room full of old white men deciding on what's best for women's health.  Maybe some women in that photo would be a good thing.  Similarly, decisions on policy affecting LGBTQ should include members of the LGBTQ community instead of what heterosexual men think is best.

 

[Dedfin]

My bad.  But since there’s only 2 parties, I don’t see it as relavent.  

Okay then.

 

[Henry Ford]

When voting?

Right, that’s a broad discussion.  I mean, if one candidate wants Medicare for All and the other wants to exterminate the Jews, the issues are obviously the most important voting point. But if one candidate wants Medicare for All and the other wants a public option with amount paid for the plan tied to the amount you’d pay in taxes under Medicare for All, I can see where the issues discussion could be close enough that if we’re then talking about putting someone on a city counsel or state legislature in the Deep South that’s never seen fit to elect a black woman or something that might be more important.  

Basically, the issues are the more important thing unless they’re not the most important thing.  

There are a lot of elections these days where if you really look at the positions, the two politicians are extremely similar.  Not the same, and maybe I’d prefer one candidate’s proposal to the other in some way. 

Honestly, the most important thing to me (absent some massively extreme position) is that we elect people who are intelligent, informed, open minded, and genuinely want to help the people of this country.  That’s more important than stances on issues.

 

[Jackstraw]

So your conclusion here is the Republicans are a party of and for racists and white men?  

Yes. If it walks like a duck and votes like a duck......

 

[Henry Ford]

No.

Then why don’t they have better female candidates?

 

[stlrams]

Yes. 

 No.  We are all racists.  Even you...  I suggest you look in the mirror.. 

 

[Henry Ford]

My bad.  But since there’s only 2 parties, I don’t see it as relavent.  

The majority of white male voters haven’t voted for a Democrat for President in over 50 years.  It’s relevant. 

 

[stlrams]

Right, that’s a broad discussion.  I mean, if one candidate wants Medicare for All and the other wants to exterminate the Jews, the issues are obviously the most important voting point. But if one candidate wants Medicare for All and the other wants a public option with amount paid for the plan tied to the amount you’d pay in taxes under Medicare for All, I can see where the issues discussion could be close enough that if we’re then talking about putting someone on a city counsel or state legislature in the Deep South that’s never seen fit to elect a black woman or something that might be more important.  

Basically, the issues are the most important thing unless they’re not the most important thing.  

There are a lot of elections these days where if you really look at the positions, the two politicians are extremely similar.  Not the same, and maybe I’d prefer one candidate’s proposal to the other in some way. 

Honestly, the most important thing to me (absent some massively extreme position) is that we elect people who are intelligent, informed, and genuinely want to help the people of this country.  That’s more important than stances on issues.

I agree completely but I think some people get caught up in diversity for the sake of diversity.  

 

[Amused to Death]

I agree completely but I think some people get caught up in diversity for the sake of diversity.  

Who's issues?  Different segments of society have diverse issues.  Some people tend to brush off things that aren't important to them or their constituents.

You mentioned issues as being more important.

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree completely but I think some people get caught up in diversity for the sake of diversity.  

Why do you think that?

I think people get caught up in thinking politicians are all the same. It’s not “for the sake of diversity” it’s “the only difference I can make with my vote is to maybe change the paradigm.”  In many ways, it’s the same frustration that a percentage of Trump voters used to vote in 2016.  

 

[stlrams]

The majority of white male voters haven’t voted for a Democrat for President in over 50 years.  It’s relevant. 

So if 51% of a certain demographic votes for one party over a number of years then that party is deem the party of X?