You call THAT hard? I'm 62 and have been a Lions fan since 1969. We have won ONE playoff game in my whole life.
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***Sunday Night Football - Bills 10-6 at Dolphins 11-5*** (+3, 50) Bills win 21-14 and claim the AFC East and 2-Seed (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ministry of Pain
- Start date
Todem
Footballguy
Oh my......ok not as hard as you.....you have my respect man. And Go Lions!!!! Fun team to watch.You call THAT hard? I'm 62 and have been a Lions fan since 1969. We have won ONE playoff game in my whole life.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
@Ministry of Pain you know I love ya man and a good part of last night was on Tua, no two ways around that. I think what makes it worse is the shell of the defense and Josh Allen's bonehead turnovers kept us in the game we had no right being in and gave us hope. But this disaster really started when the defense gave up two TD's to the Will Levis lead Titans in the last 4 minutes after the offense brought them back and staked them to a two score lead. Prevent what had never happened before from happening there and yesterday is meaningless. I resolved at that point we were likely done, Dallas was a nice reprieve but against another team that constantly comes up small with what many people say is an overrated QB was it really as good of a win as it seemed?
They are what they are, a team that against lesser opponents for most part can out athlete and out scheme them and Tua is hyper accurate against those type of teams and puts up points. Against top tier teams they need the defense to play as a top tier unit because they struggle beating teams on athleticism and scheme alone, Tua has shown what he doesn't do well, honestly Hill has had some big drops or not played his best in those games as well. And while all teams deal with injuries the number and to the top players has been insane, the depth showed by the OL has been one highlight of the second half of the season.
But back to your favorite target Tua, is he the next Brees, I don't know and honestly the odds are against it. But there are only a couple Mahomes that come along in a lifetime and if you weren't lucky enough to get one then you are always going to be chasing so you need to decide are you going to keep tearing things down and hoping to get one and likely changing coaches every three years when you don't or try and build around an above average guy that showed when he stayed healthy he puts you in contention at least? To show what I mean look at 1983, we got lucky and got Marino at the end of the draft and prospered for 17 years. Look at the two teams that missed and didn't take Dan and kept trying to chase getting the next Marino. The Jets took O'Brien and have drafted 18 QB's since then including multiple first round picks and the best they have gotten was Pennington who might honestly be the best Tua comparison so far. They still haven't gotten a generational QB and had their best success with Mark Sanchez. The Patriots drafted Tony Eason, yes they then drafted Bledsoe 10 years later but it took until they got lucky with some 6th round pick in 2000 until they got one that could be generational and carry them.
Honestly at this point I think I let Tua play out his 5th year option unless he is willing to take a very team friendly deal then you can always franchise him two years if needed but you get another year to see what he can do and if he can improve more, which he did this year, before signing him. Basically the Ravens plan they used with Lamar and worked well for them. But let's be honest of the current starting QB's you are taking him over 2/3's.
Arizona - over Kyler all day, smaller then Tua, less accurate and bad work ethic.
Atlanta - Doesn't even need to be asked. If we moved on from Tua and he went to Atlanta they win the NFC South going away even with the horrible coach they had.
Baltimore - no doubt you take Lamar over Tua, however I hold steady I wouldn't have traded away the world and spent a ton to sign Lamar when some suggested we should. Just like Tua you need a system built specifc to his skills and that would take time to put together.
Buffalo - If you can't beat them join them.
Carolina - I'll take Tua over Bryce Young (Tua light)
Chicago - For purposes of this conversation I'm still saying Fields is their starter, in which case I'll take Tua. Now if you want to give me the #1 pick and Caleb Williams he is a guy I would take a shot at, I think he is that special and with the rookie deal you can really build on what we have.
Cincinnati - I take Burrow, easy choice.
Cleveland - Watson/Flacco, Watson looks to be toast and Flacco is almost as old as me. I'll take Tua.
Dallas - I'll take Dak, although it isn't long ago Cowboys fans thought the same thing about him that you do of Tua. That he wasn't elite.
Denver - I'll put Russ here because not sure who else to list. At this day and current price I'll take Tua all day. This isn't prime Russ from Seattle.
Detroit - Groff has reinvented himself and you can't argue that and has a legit chance to reach a 2nd Super Bowl. But let's not forget they couldn't wait to run this guy out a couple years ago and he was a punch line.
Green Bay - This and Houston next might be the toughest calls. Love looked really good as the year went on, hard to believe the Packers may have for a second time drafted a guy to replace a Hall of Famer and sat him for three years and drew an ace. I'm going cop out and make this one a draw because they are going to need to pay Love as well and we haven't seen it over time. If he was a true rookie on a rookie deal I'd probably take him.
Houston - So this is basically the Green Bay situation but on a rookie contract so I would roll the dice with Stroud. He looked the part in a high pressure game this weekend and all season.
Indianapolis - Richardson/Minshew, Didn't see enough of Richardson and I wasn't a believer coming out and Minshew is too much of a gun slinger for today's NFL although I love him as a backup.
Jacksonville - Lawrence, yep, I'm a fan. I like him more then everyone around here's favorite Herbert.
Kansas City - I had to think here....ok no I didn't.
Las Vegas - I'll take Tua over Jimmy G or O'Donnell.
LA Chargers - While I give everyone grief about him right now I'd take Herbert, but it isn't by the wide margin many of you have it. He has yet to show me he can carry a team and this year seemed to regress.
LA Rams - Stafford isn't much different then Tua at this point, his arm isn't what it use to be, he isn't mobile and can't extend plays and he could retire at any moment.
Miami - n/a
Minnesota - another tough one due to age and coming off a major injury. I like Cousins more then many, if you could guarantee he came back at 100% and was going to play 3 or 4 more years I might consider it but both of those happening seem doubtful so I'd stick with Tua.
New England - I'm not sold on anyone coming out other then Williams so I don't want their pick or garbage QB's.
New Orleans - Like Cousins I have probably liked this Carr more then most or I should have but I think he has reached his peak and Tua still has a chance to improve so I'll stick with Tua.
NY Giants - They don't even want their QB
NY Jets - Wilson/broken down old Rodgers I don't see success here short term and definitely not then maybe one inspired season. I want no part of them.
Philadelphia - ok here is my controversial one and my most overrated QB, haven't been a fan of Hurts since he was drafted and I think he is way overrated. He is about to get his coach that took them to a Super Bowl last year (although I have no real opinion on him) and possibly one of the best GM's in football fired. He's not accurate, doesn't seem like a leader, and scored the majority of his rushing TD's from one yard out. He's not Lamar dynamic when running. He won't play out his contract in Philly or of he does they will be a .500 team. Tua has more upside especially in our system.
Pittsburgh - I dare anyone to make the argument for one of these guys.
San Francisco - I'm a Purdy believer, if he doesn't get hurt they are in the Super Bowl last year over Philly and they odds on should be this year.
Tampa Bay - I think Mayfield is underrated and he is a guy that can rally the troops but he is also a guy that has shown he can divide the locker room and is too much a gunslinger for the current NFL to win year after year.
Tennessee - Levis played the game of his life the 4th quarter against us, other then that and his first game he was below average. Side note, would have loved to see what our current coach would have done with a young Tannehill and may have developed him.
Washington - Ah no.
So there I have Tua at QB 10.5, with a couple guys that don't have a big track record included in those. Yes early in the season the national media was making Tua and the Dolphins sound like the next greatest show on turf but I also think midseason many of them got off the bandwagon so maybe the Miami media kept the hype up. But what I listen to, and much of that is Fantasy radio, the pundits weren't hyping Tua near as much. after the Philly game.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I saw Tua's first and second half splits this year earlier and the disparity is glaring.
If Tua had played in the second half all season like he did in the first halves, he'd be the one winning the MVP, not Lamar.
If Tua had played in the first half all season like he did in the second halves, he would have been Desmond Ridder.
If Tua had played in the second half all season like he did in the first halves, he'd be the one winning the MVP, not Lamar.
If Tua had played in the first half all season like he did in the second halves, he would have been Desmond Ridder.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Interesting I haven't looked those up but the games I watched it sounds correct. So that means one of a couple things.
- The coaching staff does a great job game planning given a week but can't make adjustments.
- Tua can't handle the adjustments that the coaching staff gives him.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I think it is #1. When teams don't adjust Miami pours on the gas. When they do the question is "did it help?" Last night the Bills went to an 8 man box in the second half and Miami did not adjust. In other games the Miami D made enough noise that the O didn't need to do anything different.
McDaniel needs to evolve a little, but Name any first time coach who didn't? Shula needed to leave Indy to learn from his mistakes. Bill B was a debacle for the browns. Harbaugh (both), Tomlin, Cower were "good" from the jump, but they also had a decent team when they got there. We had a tear down.
