Take this franchise away from Jacksonville. (1 Viewer)

[krameruf]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

If it's a small city then it has no right having an NFL franchise. Move it to L.A. Having to tarp off seats (when they can sell out Floriduh Gaturd games) is an embarrassment.

Well the Jags aren't one of the top football programs in the nation with one of the best fan bases in college sports.

 

[Gnat Berries]

Growing up in the 80's in a blue collar family, my old man was able to take me to the Bucs game just about every week. We could walk up to the gate and buy tickets for $12-$18 at the Big Sombrero -- and did so just about every week from '82-'96. Those days are gone.

Yea, but to be fair, Tampa paid people to go see those creampsicle teams. Now they can actually charge ticket prices.

 

[Tanner9919]

I saw tarps in that last shot.Pathetic

the stadium seats 76,000..if they had ,say, 5,000 seats tarped off, they still had 71,000 people at the stadium!!its a venue built for Super Bowls, i.e, high-capacity seating..I doubt New Orleans sells out the Superdome..same can be said of Detroit, Az, Minnesota.All have hosted SB's, and all have retractable seating or add'l seating they use for the large sporting events such as BCS games, SB's, etc.Jacksonville was ROCKIN' last night! paid attendance was 67,164.

 

[JohnnyU]

They shouldn't ake the franchise away, but they should take those all dark uniforms away. Talk about ugly. Where the hell is the teal?

 

[ellisonb11]

I saw tarps in that last shot.Pathetic

the stadium seats 76,000..if they had ,say, 5,000 seats tarped off, they still had 71,000 people at the stadium!!its a venue built for Super Bowls, i.e, high-capacity seating..I doubt New Orleans sells out the Superdome..same can be said of Detroit, Az, Minnesota.All have hosted SB's, and all have retractable seating or add'l seating they use for the large sporting events such as BCS games, SB's, etc.Jacksonville was ROCKIN' last night! paid attendance was 67,164.

not only that, they had the extra stands in there for GA FL weekend so theyre were even more than usual.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Indy/NYG fan here (but Florida resident) and most of us NFL fans don't want to make the 2 plus many hour drive to J-ville for the game because the city is not a good city. You go for the game and that's it (which I've done), but sometimes you want to make a weekend or at least a day or so out of it if you make the drive. Jacksonhole does not offer that possibility - there may be an area or two that are "ok", but nothing you can't get elsewhere in Florida better for cheaper, and certainly no good party area worth speaking of, no good downtown area, etc. That city needs a total revitalization and is at the very least a decade away from being hospitable and visitable as a weekend getaway. I can't believe they got a franchise. Orlando wouldn't fare better, but at least give that town a shot. They've managed to hang on to an NBA franchise so far.Outside of Miami, most Floridians will drive to Tampa for Bucs games. North of Gainesville people will drive to Atlanta. East of that you have a Carolina base. Jacksonville is a questionable city for a franchise. Disney would sell more tickets during the season in Orlando to football games than Jacksonville can to their local fans - granted, not much of a local base, but there's your worry about tarping seats and tv blackouts solved. Maybe even NFL worries about Jerseys sold - sell them at Disney.I am available for other marketing strategies in the Orlando area, investors.

Seems odd that we can blame this on the fact that people are unwilling to travel to the city because it's a bad city when people have no problem flocking from everywhere in the state to that same city when there is a college football game there..

 

[gump]

Indy/NYG fan here (but Florida resident) and most of us NFL fans don't want to make the 2 plus many hour drive to J-ville for the game because the city is not a good city. You go for the game and that's it (which I've done), but sometimes you want to make a weekend or at least a day or so out of it if you make the drive. Jacksonhole does not offer that possibility - there may be an area or two that are "ok", but nothing you can't get elsewhere in Florida better for cheaper, and certainly no good party area worth speaking of, no good downtown area, etc. That city needs a total revitalization and is at the very least a decade away from being hospitable and visitable as a weekend getaway.

I honestly cannot disagree more.- Jacksonville is the golf capital of the country. There are more beautiful golf courses in that area than the rest of FL combined.- The beaches are also beautiful. It's the Atlantic Ocean for c-sakes.- How about Amelia Island? Or St Augustine? Both within 30 minutes.- And downtown is not fantastic, but at least The Landing has several bars and restaurants in a nice little entertainment area. I was there for UA/FSU, and there were probably 15,000 people there on Friday night...it was a blast.- The SB in J-ville was 10 times better than the one in DetroitI don't think you are trying very hard to have fun in J-ville. I go several times a year, and there is always plenty to do.

 

[brettdj]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

3rd largest city on the east coast, most populated city in Florida. Its not a small city.

NY 8.1MillionBoston 590kPhilly 1.465MBaltimore 631kMiami 383kWhere does J'ville fit in?

J'ville 794kDC 581kAtlanta 424kSo far 3rd largestAccording to bestplaces.net

 

[tppt]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

which is why they shouldt have a team

 

[gump]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

3rd largest city on the east coast, most populated city in Florida. Its not a small city.

NY 8.1MillionBoston 590kPhilly 1.465MBaltimore 631kMiami 383kWhere does J'ville fit in?

J'ville 794kDC 581kAtlanta 424kSo far 3rd largestAccording to bestplaces.net

The population of the city is meaningless. The metro area is what counts.The top 5 most populated counties in FL are the 3 in the Miami area and the 2 in the Tampa area.You guys from other states...Tell us again how big J-ville is...

 

[The_Man]

Jacksonville is not now, and never has been, a legit NFL market.

When the NFL had the round of expansion that brought Carolina and Jacksonville into the NFL, the city with the best package on the table -- far and away -- was Baltimore. On the day that the NFL was supposed to announce two new franchises, it instead announced only one -- Carolina. It then went to the Jacksonville group and said that your offer isn't good enough now, but we promise to give you the team if you sweeten the pot. With the guarantee of a team in hand, Jacksonville was then able to secure the extra concessions it needed to win the franchise.

So, why wasn't Baltimore awarded a team then? An unholy alliance of Tagliabue and Jack Kent Cooke on one side (JKC was already unhappy about losing the southern end of his territory to Carolina and wanted to keep all of Maryland as Redskins territory, especially since he had just built a giant stadium in Maryland) and Art Modell on the other (as a member of the expansion committe, he knew well how sweet Baltimore's deal was and wanted to keep it for himself just in case things didn't work out in Cleveland).

 

[brettdj]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

3rd largest city on the east coast, most populated city in Florida. Its not a small city.

NY 8.1MillionBoston 590kPhilly 1.465MBaltimore 631kMiami 383kWhere does J'ville fit in?

J'ville 794kDC 581kAtlanta 424kSo far 3rd largestAccording to bestplaces.net

The population of the city is meaningless. The metro area is what counts.The top 5 most populated counties in FL are the 3 in the Miami area and the 2 in the Tampa area.You guys from other states...Tell us again how big J-ville is...

I agree with you on metro size, but just wanted to show stats backing up the claim.

 

[gump]

I agree with you on metro size, but just wanted to show stats backing up the claim.

Didn't mean to point a finger at you directly...but there is a lot of nonsense from some uninformed people in this thread.I don't live in J-ville, and don't want to. But it is NOT a big city by any stretch.

 

[Ilov80s]

J-ville is not a great NFL market. But it's a midsize town really. Not near the size of Tampa or Miami. And the team is relatively new. They love their college football though. UF/UGA will be a zoo, as was UA/FSU a few weeks ago.It's essentially a smaller version of Atlanta. Southern to the core...but people from small towns in GA, AL, and FL who dont' want to live in a "big city" move there.

Jvile has 700,000 residentsMiami has 363,000Tampa has 303,000The metropolitian population of Miami and Tampa is larger. Still- with over a million people in the metro area- Jax should be a viable market as it is one of the fastest growing cities in the country.

 

[gump]

J-ville is not a great NFL market. But it's a midsize town really. Not near the size of Tampa or Miami. And the team is relatively new. They love their college football though. UF/UGA will be a zoo, as was UA/FSU a few weeks ago.It's essentially a smaller version of Atlanta. Southern to the core...but people from small towns in GA, AL, and FL who dont' want to live in a "big city" move there.

Jvile has 700,000 residentsMiami has 363,000Tampa has 303,000The metropolitian population of Miami and Tampa is larger. Still- with over a million people in the metro area- Jax should be a viable market as it is one of the fastest growing cities in the country.

It's smaller than Orlando, less than half the size of Tampa and 1/5 of Miami...and is probably the smallest NFL metro area...but it has an even smaller town "feel". You have to spend time there to understand what I mean.But I agree it's viable. They need to figure out how to get people to get passionate about the NFL like they do for college.

 

[DrJ]

Pathetic. I'd kill to get Redskins ticketsand Jacksonville doesnt even sell out on the biggest game of the year.

Why don't you get a better job?

They don't give season tickets to the highest bidder.

I'll be attending the Washington game vs Da Bears this year. The impression I got from the Redskins message boards is that tickets aren't that hard to come by. And judging by the price I paid for premium 45 yard line seats, I'd say that's pretty accurate - I can get more for some corner endzone seats I have here in Chicago than I paid for these.Your stadium is massive, because Snyder has tacked on a bunch of crappy obstructed view seats so you do fine in attendance ratings, but there are plenty of worthless seats in the stadium that aren't all to hard to come by. I've seen pictures of seats where you see about 40% of the field at best and have to watch the rest of the game on some small overhead monitor - you might as well be in your family room because the seats are so bad they shouldn't exist.

 

[Pocket Joker]

Actually, Jacksonville is #14 in average home attendance. Arizona, Oakland, Indianapolis, Chicago and San Diego are all leading the league in lowest average attendance. The #1 teams are Washington, NY Giants, KC and NY Jets. The league average is around 62K, whereas Jax is around ~70K.

The numbers don't back up this argument.

NFL Football League Attendance

Team Home Avg

WASHINGTON 87,834

NY GIANTS 78,734

KANSAS 77,921

NY JETS 77,898

CLEVELAND 73,105

MIAMI 72,601

CAROLINA 72,071

DENVER 71,961

BUFFALO 71,800

HOUSTON 70,649

ATLANTA 70,596

GREEN 70,550

BALTIMORE 69,824

JACKSONVILLE 69,433

TENNESSEE 68,917

NEW ENGLAND 68,756

PHILADELPHIA 67,609

SEATTLE 66,680

ST LOUIS 65,923

CINCINNATI 65,531

TAMPA BAY 65,340

SAN FRANCISCO 64,784

NEW ORLEANS 64,147

MINNESOTA 64,121

DALLAS 63,862

PITTSBURGH 63,423

DETROIT 62,395

SAN DIEGO 60,683

CHICAGO 58,907

INDIANAPOLIS 57,099

OAKLAND 50,090

ARIZONA 37,533

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

This is the fact that should be considered by intelligent people that rarely ever is. To me, it's not if it's a sellout or not, it's how many people are showing up.The Detroit Lions used to play in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Silverdome held 88,000 seats and as you can imagine, the Lions maybe, maybe sold out once a year. They'd at times get 65 to 68, 000 people and it would be blacked out and then I'd see games going on in Washington, or Green Bay or wherever and they'd have 53 or 58,000 people because their stadium was so much smaller but yet it was called a sellout. (I don't know the seat size of those stadiums, using them as an example of some I know were smaller like that).It made no sense to me how one team could have 68000 watching a game at home and get blacked out and then another with 53,000 and not get blacked out. I understand the legalist mind says one is sold out and another isn't but the practical mind understands that something is not right when one team has 15000 more people attending a game and there's is blacked out compared to another.Anyway, I think the number of fans at the game should be the measure, not if it's a sellout.

 

[Pocket Joker]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

This is the fact that should be considered by intelligent people that rarely ever is. To me, it's not if it's a sellout or not, it's how many people are showing up.The Detroit Lions used to play in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Silverdome held 88,000 seats and as you can imagine, the Lions maybe, maybe sold out once a year. They'd at times get 65 to 68, 000 people and it would be blacked out and then I'd see games going on in Washington, or Green Bay or wherever and they'd have 53 or 58,000 people because their stadium was so much smaller but yet it was called a sellout. (I don't know the seat size of those stadiums, using them as an example of some I know were smaller like that).It made no sense to me how one team could have 68000 watching a game at home and get blacked out and then another with 53,000 and not get blacked out. I understand the legalist mind says one is sold out and another isn't but the practical mind understands that something is not right when one team has 15000 more people attending a game and there's is blacked out compared to another.Anyway, I think the number of fans at the game should be the measure, not if it's a sellout.

They actually average around 69K, which is 14th in the NFL.

 

[redman]

I'm 59,817 on the waiting list to get Packer season tickets. Maybe I should switch teams. (Also, my unborn son is 59,818, one behind me)

Way to put your interests ahead of your son's.

 

[DrJ]

Actually, Jacksonville is #14 in average home attendance. Arizona, Oakland, Indianapolis, Chicago and San Diego are all leading the league in lowest average attendance. The #1 teams are Washington, NY Giants, KC and NY Jets. The league average is around 62K, whereas Jax is around ~70K.

In the case of Da Bears, it's because they foolishly spent hundreds of millions to build what will be the smallest stadium in the NFL as of 2008. It's terrific for us season ticket holders, because there really isn't a bad seat in the house and it's incredibly easy to sell any tickets you can't use. But I still can't see how it makes a heck of a lot of sense to have such a tiny stadium in one of the hugest markets.

 

[The_Man]

I think this is an interesting chart.

It shows what percentage of stadium capacity each team is getting for its games -- total attendance is kind of meaningless for the vast majority of NFL teams who sell out all their games. That's just a question of who has the biggest stadium. By this measure, by filling only 86 percent of its available seats, Jacksonville is last in the NFL.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Lets just have Chicago play NY every week!

Since Buffalo is the last NY team left.I guess Buffalo will finish 2nd every year.But there use to that.

 

[gump]

Actually, Jacksonville is #14 in average home attendance. Arizona, Oakland, Indianapolis, Chicago and San Diego are all leading the league in lowest average attendance.

Good point...especially about Arizona.The Phoeniz metro area is over 3 times the size of J-ville.

Yet Arizona draws less, and I can tell you that Cardinals licensed sales are always LAST in the NFL.

Where's the outcry for taking their franchise?

 

[marshall88]

Actually, Jacksonville is #14 in average home attendance. Arizona, Oakland, Indianapolis, Chicago and San Diego are all leading the league in lowest average attendance. The #1 teams are Washington, NY Giants, KC and NY Jets. The league average is around 62K, whereas Jax is around ~70K.

The numbers don't back up this argument.

NFL Football League Attendance

Team Home Avg

WASHINGTON 87,834

NY GIANTS 78,734

KANSAS 77,921

NY JETS 77,898

CLEVELAND 73,105

MIAMI 72,601

CAROLINA 72,071

DENVER 71,961

BUFFALO 71,800

HOUSTON 70,649

ATLANTA 70,596

GREEN 70,550

BALTIMORE 69,824

JACKSONVILLE 69,433

TENNESSEE 68,917

NEW ENGLAND 68,756

PHILADELPHIA 67,609

SEATTLE 66,680

ST LOUIS 65,923

CINCINNATI 65,531

TAMPA BAY 65,340

SAN FRANCISCO 64,784

NEW ORLEANS 64,147

MINNESOTA 64,121

DALLAS 63,862

PITTSBURGH 63,423

DETROIT 62,395

SAN DIEGO 60,683

CHICAGO 58,907

INDIANAPOLIS 57,099

OAKLAND 50,090

ARIZONA 37,533

Is this current info? I only question it because I'm in AZ and since the new stadium was built it has been sold out -- that's 2 consecutive years of sold-out games in a stadium that seats 63,400 -- far above the 37,533 average you cited above.

 

[Sidewinder]

.....I doubt New Orleans sells out the Superdome....

Every game was sold out from 2000-2004, and had season ticket sellouts for the entire year in 2006 and this year.

...NEW ORLEANS 64,147Is this current info? ...

Current Superdome config for the NFL is 70,000.

 

[culdeus]

Actually, Jacksonville is #14 in average home attendance. Arizona, Oakland, Indianapolis, Chicago and San Diego are all leading the league in lowest average attendance. The #1 teams are Washington, NY Giants, KC and NY Jets. The league average is around 62K, whereas Jax is around ~70K.

The numbers don't back up this argument.

NFL Football League Attendance

Team Home Avg

WASHINGTON 87,834

NY GIANTS 78,734

KANSAS 77,921

NY JETS 77,898

CLEVELAND 73,105

MIAMI 72,601

CAROLINA 72,071

DENVER 71,961

BUFFALO 71,800

HOUSTON 70,649

ATLANTA 70,596

GREEN 70,550

BALTIMORE 69,824

JACKSONVILLE 69,433

TENNESSEE 68,917

NEW ENGLAND 68,756

PHILADELPHIA 67,609

SEATTLE 66,680

ST LOUIS 65,923

CINCINNATI 65,531

TAMPA BAY 65,340

SAN FRANCISCO 64,784

NEW ORLEANS 64,147

MINNESOTA 64,121

DALLAS 63,862

PITTSBURGH 63,423

DETROIT 62,395

SAN DIEGO 60,683

CHICAGO 58,907

INDIANAPOLIS 57,099

OAKLAND 50,090

ARIZONA 37,533

Is this current info? I only question it because I'm in AZ and since the new stadium was built it has been sold out -- that's 2 consecutive years of sold-out games in a stadium that seats 63,400 -- far above the 37,533 average you cited above.

This must be old. Also keep in mind some of the attendence figures are a result of an older (smaller) stadium being filled to capacity. Dallas' stadium will have a stretch capacity of over 100,000 when opened in 2009 easily putting them at the top of this list.

 

[gump]

Is this current info? I only question it because I'm in AZ and since the new stadium was built it has been sold out -- that's 2 consecutive years of sold-out games in a stadium that seats 63,400 -- far above the 37,533 average you cited above.

No...but this is:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?s...g&year=2007

Arizona is 23rd. J-ville 24th.

But again, Arizona is over 3 times the size.

I say move the Cards to LA!

 

[QuizGuy66]

I think this is an interesting chart.

It shows what percentage of stadium capacity each team is getting for its games -- total attendance is kind of meaningless for the vast majority of NFL teams who sell out all their games. That's just a question of who has the biggest stadium. By this measure, by filling only 86 percent of its available seats, Jacksonville is last in the NFL.

Pittsburgh should lose their team too, since they are last in the AFC North in % Attendance That chart's gotta lotta weird stuff. Apparently by % of seats, Dallas is the 3rd-worst drawing road team in the leauge

-QG

 

[happy_donut]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

If it's a small city then it has no right having an NFL franchise. Move it to L.A. Having to tarp off seats (when they can sell out Floriduh Gaturd games) is an embarrassment.

Well the Jags aren't one of the top football programs in the nation with one of the best fan bases in college sports.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Jacksonville has always been about college football, even when the team (UF) wasn't doing so well. Not trying to bag on Jax (I grew up there, my family still lives there) but it's the truth. People who live there are just way more into college football, and in my experience the real diehard fans are the one's who didn't go away to college at all.You'll find that the Jaguars are popular when they are winning, but the stadium was built to house the college games. That's why it's bigger than it needs to be for the Jaguars.

 

[jagerbomb]

I'm 59,817 on the waiting list to get Packer season tickets. Maybe I should switch teams. (Also, my unborn son is 59,818, one behind me)

I heard there's only about 70 season tickets that come up every year in GB (people can pass theirs to children, cousins, etc). That means you should get your seats for the 2850 season. Is that accurate?

 

[Phurfur]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

Tell that to Green Bay.

 

[GregR_2]

...In terms of area, I'm pretty sure that Jacksonville is the largest city in the contiguous US. That being said, it's a smelly, podunk city where the main industry is thumping on Bibles.k... That was probably a little harsh, but my point is, it's no Atlanta, NY or Philly.

Good call. Largest US cities by area:1 Sitka, Alaska 2874 square miles2 Juneau, Alaska 27173 Anchorage, Alaska 16974 Jacksonville, Florida. 758

 

[Nemesis]

Kind of interesting to see this sorted by AVG AWAY attendance:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?sort=away_avg&year=2007http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?sort=away_avg&year=2007

1 Miami 77,678

2 Jacksonville 76,690

3 Philadelphia 75,549

4 NY Giants 74,554

5 Detroit 72,687

6 Cincinnati 72,585

7 San Diego 72,122

8 Arizona 71,727

9 Pittsburgh 71,657

10 Oakland 71,642

11 NY Jets 71,630

12 Green Bay 71,240

13 New England 69,987

14 San Francisco 69,506

15 Baltimore 69,432

16 Washington 69,243

17 Indianapolis 69,024

18 Houston 68,897

19 Dallas 68,429

20 Tennessee 67,880

21 Carolina 66,971

22 St. Louis 66,868

23 Chicago 66,839

24 Buffalo 66,531

25 Minnesota 66,353

26 Atlanta 65,943

27 Seattle 65,557

28 Kansas City 64,897

29 Tampa Bay 64,848

30 Denver 64,203

31 New Orleans 63,611

32 Cleveland 59,915

 

[culdeus]

I think this is an interesting chart.

It shows what percentage of stadium capacity each team is getting for its games -- total attendance is kind of meaningless for the vast majority of NFL teams who sell out all their games. That's just a question of who has the biggest stadium. By this measure, by filling only 86 percent of its available seats, Jacksonville is last in the NFL.

Pittsburgh should lose their team too, since they are last in the AFC North in % Attendance That chart's gotta lotta weird stuff. Apparently by % of seats, Dallas is the 3rd-worst drawing road team in the leauge

-QG

That Miami game was played to a lot of empty seats.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

...In terms of area, I'm pretty sure that Jacksonville is the largest city in the contiguous US. That being said, it's a smelly, podunk city where the main industry is thumping on Bibles.k... That was probably a little harsh, but my point is, it's no Atlanta, NY or Philly.

Good call. Largest US cities by area:1 Sitka, Alaska 2874 square miles2 Juneau, Alaska 27173 Anchorage, Alaska 16974 Jacksonville, Florida. 758

Imagine living in Sitka, Alaska and driving on the school bus to their 1 high school which is 1200 miles away.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Kind of interesting to see this sorted by AVG AWAY attendance:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?sort=away_avg&year=2007http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?sort=away_avg&year=2007

1 Miami 77,678

At Washington, At Jets-QG

 

[krameruf]

They still average 63k which isn't terrible. It's a small city with no big city close to it.

3rd largest city on the east coast, most populated city in Florida. Its not a small city.

NY 8.1MillionBoston 590kPhilly 1.465MBaltimore 631kMiami 383kWhere does J'ville fit in?

J'ville 794kDC 581kAtlanta 424kSo far 3rd largestAccording to bestplaces.net

The population of the city is meaningless. The metro area is what counts.The top 5 most populated counties in FL are the 3 in the Miami area and the 2 in the Tampa area.You guys from other states...Tell us again how big J-ville is...