Talk About Meat Consumption (1 Viewer)

[Northern Voice]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

 

[dickey moe]

Usually have 1/2 a serving of meat at breakfast then a serving each at lunch and dinner.

 

[General Malaise]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

It's also a leading contributor to environmental pollution and no this isn't a political opinion it is a fact.

 

[General Malaise]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

 

[Northern Voice]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

I was thinking of poultry as part of it, yes.

Fish and dairy are probably best kept seperate for simplicity sake.

 

[NutterButter]

Eat it like 4 times a day, but only chicken and fish.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

less And less. I barely eat red meat anymore. I don’t really like chicken. Headed more veggie all the Time

 

[Eephus]

7-13 range if you count a slice of turkey as a portion. That's probably too much but protein alternatives are still a challenge.

I like tofu but don't want to cook it every day. Same for beans but for different reasons. Plant-based alternatives like Beyond and Impossible don't do anything for me. They don't pick up flavor from seasonings well and the texture is just weird. Jackfruit is ####.

 

[Snoopy]

Us dogs are carnivorous.

 

[Da Guru]

Eat chicken, turkey and fish of some sort almost everyday. Burgers or steak maybe 6-7 times a year.

 

[Mitchie]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

I was thinking of poultry as part of it, yes.

Fish and dairy are probably best kept seperate for simplicity sake.

Am i missing something? Is poultry linked to any of those things?

ETA: i do believe deli meat is, is that what we're talking about?

 

[Willie Neslon]

Grass-finished beef is one of the most nutrient dense, healthy foods you can consume. It's a complete fallacy that eating it is somehow unhealthy.

 

[Northern Voice]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

I was thinking of poultry as part of it, yes.

Fish and dairy are probably best kept seperate for simplicity sake.

Am i missing something? Is poultry linked to any of those things?

ETA: i do believe deli meat is, is that what we're talking about?

Does eating meat increase your risk of heart disease?

New research has claimed that eating processed meat, unprocessed red meat or poultry increases your risk of heart disease. But how accurate is this?

www.bhf.org.uk

 

[Drunken knight]

you should get a 2 hr timeout for serving up softballs

 

[NutterButter]

7-13 range if you count a slice of turkey as a portion. That's probably too much but protein alternatives are still a challenge.

I like tofu but don't want to cook it every day. Same for beans but for different reasons. Plant-based alternatives like Beyond and Impossible don't do anything for me. They don't pick up flavor from seasonings well and the texture is just weird. Jackfruit is ####.

Tried some pulled jackfruit recipe and thought it was pretty unappetizing. Now blind taste test between the impossible whopper and the real deal, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think the alternative chopped meat holds up well. Haven't tried any of the other alternatives.

 

[Ilov80s]

7-13 range if you count a slice of turkey as a portion. That's probably too much but protein alternatives are still a challenge.

I like tofu but don't want to cook it every day. Same for beans but for different reasons. Plant-based alternatives like Beyond and Impossible don't do anything for me. They don't pick up flavor from seasonings well and the texture is just weird. Jackfruit is ####.

Tried some pulled jackfruit recipe and thought it was pretty unappetizing. Now blind taste test between the impossible whopper and the real deal, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think the alternative chopped meat holds up well. Haven't tried any of the other alternatives.

My wife has done some awesome stuff that replicated meat but she did a jackfruit pulled pork and agreed it was ********.

I have never had an impossible anything either.

 

[Sleestak]

For ethical reasons no beef, pork, chicken, eggs, or dairy. Fish and shellfish fall below my arbitrary cutoff line so I do eat those here and there. Gotta eat something. Salads, avocados, various squash, potatoes, beans, bananas, oatmeal, rice, barley, grits, home made bread, olive oil, peanut butter, black bean burgers, some tofu, etc. We minimize food out of a box. Never had an impossible anything.

 

[bigbottom]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

I was thinking of poultry as part of it, yes.

Fish and dairy are probably best kept seperate for simplicity sake.

Wait, I voted before I knew that fish wasn’t “meat.” I’m at about 12-13, but it’s nearly all chicken, turkey or fish.

 

[snellman]

I am meat every meal. I am eventually going to die anyway, why would I want to die miserable? My Grandpa owned a meat locker and I spent a lot of time with him growing up. There is nothing like the smell of going into a local butcher shop. I realize it isn't the best smell, but it brings back so many memories. I can't even imagine not eating meat. We buy a 1/4 of beef every year.

 

[JohnnyU]

My vegan friend only has meat when I can slip some into her food.

……jk

i eat meat often, but smaller portions than I used to. So I voted 7-13.

 

[AAABatteries]

Interesting topic. My father, who has suffered from pretty bad neck and back pain for most of his adult life, has gone carnivore and lost 40 pounds - is down to 159, blood work is fantastic and almost all of his inflammation and pain is gone. He’s 74.

Total anecdote but wanted to share. I think if someone can stick to it that being a meat and vegetables person may be our most ideal diet based on our evolution. Eliminate sugar, dairy, grains, everything processed, alcohol.

I think the reason we frequently argue about meat is the ethical side and I totally understand that perspective but what I personally come back to is we are just smart animals - we are fine with all other meat eating animals eating meat but us. It’s tough though - I do think the environmental argument is a really good one - the lion isn’t messing up the environment taking down and eating an antelope.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Obviously a companion thread to @Joe Bryant's on alcohol.

From a health perspective it's the same conversation, I think. We know meat consumption is linked to heart disease, cancer, stroke, shorter life span etc... but we mostly consume it anyway.

Also relatable in that a "serving" and what is actually consumed tend to vary wildly.

Like the other thread, no judgment, votes are private.

Are you lumping fish and poultry into this? Dairy?

I was thinking of poultry as part of it, yes.

Fish and dairy are probably best kept seperate for simplicity sake.

Probably should clarify in the voting question how you're defining meat.

 

[Northern Voice]

Total anecdote but wanted to share. I think if someone can stick to it that being a meat and vegetables person may be our most ideal diet based on our evolution. Eliminate sugar, dairy, grains, everything processed, alcohol.

I think in terms of longevity, the blue zones are largely Mediterranean/vegetarian diets with are both very little meat.

A recent study for heart health found the DASH diet (protein primarily for fish and seafood) to be the best, followed by pescatarian, Mediterranean, vegetarian and vegan in that order. Paleo and keto were the two worst.

I think there are varying results but for heart health it seems pretty clear a meat heavy diet isn't the best option. Add that to meat being proven to be linked to colon cancer and red meat and processed meats being labelled as carcinogens - I really do think this is the same conversation as alcohol.

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

 

[AAABatteries]

Total anecdote but wanted to share. I think if someone can stick to it that being a meat and vegetables person may be our most ideal diet based on our evolution. Eliminate sugar, dairy, grains, everything processed, alcohol.

I think in terms of longevity, the blue zones are largely Mediterranean/vegetarian diets with are both very little meat.

A recent study for heart health found the DASH diet (protein primarily for fish and seafood) to be the best, followed by pescatarian, Mediterranean, vegetarian and vegan in that order. Paleo and keto were the two worst.

I think there are varying results but for heart health it seems pretty clear a meat heavy diet isn't the best option. Add that to meat being proven to be linked to colon cancer and red meat and processed meats being labelled as carcinogens - I really do think this is the same conversation as alcohol.

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

That study is almost exactly what I listed in my post so happy to see I’m not far off:

The committee evaluated how 10 popular diets aligned with the AHA's dietary advice for a heart-healthy eating pattern:

1. Consuming a wide variety of fruits and vegetables
2. Choosing mostly whole grains instead of refined grains
3. Using liquid plant oils rather than tropical oils
4. Eating healthy sources of protein, focusing on those from plants, seafood or lean meats
5. Minimizing added sugars and salt
6. Limiting alcohol consumption
7. Choosing minimally processed foods instead of ultra-processed foods (no need to avoid all "processed" foods, though)

 

[AAABatteries]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

 

[Major]

I rarely eat beef anymore unless I'm fine dining or going out for BBQ. Between buffalo, chicken and turkey, probably 15+/week. I'm a grazer so normally 4-5 meals/day.

 

[Northern Voice]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

I'm trying not to make this a pro vegan/vegetarian thread, just as I don't think alcohol thread should be an abstinence or prohibition type of all or nothing question.

There's obviously some nuance in both in terms of type and volume of meat and drink, with the spectrum of half a cup of red wine with dinner to 7 double whiskeys and at the same token from a piece of lean chicken to a cold cut sub.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Grass-finished beef is one of the most nutrient dense, healthy foods you can consume. It's a complete fallacy that eating it is somehow unhealthy.

Can you show your work here?

TMK, there are no credible (ie., not industry funded) studies showing benefit to grass fed versus reg beef, and quite a bit of evidence suggesting red meat is unhealthy. But processed (smoked/cured/etc.) meats are by far the least healthy option.

As for the OP, haven’t eaten meat in nearly 20 years. Rarely consume dairy. Eat fish, prob a couple servings a week or less.

 

[AAABatteries]

I'm a grazer so normally 4-5 meals/day.

Now you’ve done it.

 

[3C's]

I don't really eat a lot of meat but I had a hoagie last night that was made with all imported Italian cold cuts that would probably count for 14+ on it's own. If it took a few hours off my life I'm okay with it.

 

[AAABatteries]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

I'm trying not to make this a pro vegan/vegetarian thread, just as I don't think alcohol thread should be an abstinence or prohibition type of all or nothing question.

There's obviously some nuance in both in terms of type and volume of meat and drink, with the spectrum of half a cup of red wine with dinner to 7 double whiskeys and at the same token from a piece of lean chicken to a cold cut sub.

Yeah - we (the group, not me and you) have talked about this before in a thread. In the whole, it’s a tad silly for folks, like myself, to argue about optimal diets. The vast, vast majority of us aren’t even close. If you don’t eat sugar or drink alcohol or processed food and have a couple of ribeyes weekly I’d be willing to bet you will be much healthier than somebody who eats cereal with cows milk, bagels and cheese, desserts, etc.

 

[Northern Voice]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

I'm trying not to make this a pro vegan/vegetarian thread, just as I don't think alcohol thread should be an abstinence or prohibition type of all or nothing question.

There's obviously some nuance in both in terms of type and volume of meat and drink, with the spectrum of half a cup of red wine with dinner to 7 double whiskeys and at the same token from a piece of lean chicken to a cold cut sub.

In the whole, it’s a tad silly for folks, like myself, to argue about optimal diets. The vast, vast majority of us aren’t even close. If you don’t eat sugar or drink alcohol or processed food and have a couple of ribeyes weekly I’d be willing to bet you will be much healthier than somebody who eats cereal with cows milk, bagels and cheese, desserts, etc.

I think it's good to have the discussions, knowing that most of us aren't perfect or optimal but can make small changes here and there to improve general health.

 

[Ilov80s]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

I'm trying not to make this a pro vegan/vegetarian thread, just as I don't think alcohol thread should be an abstinence or prohibition type of all or nothing question.

There's obviously some nuance in both in terms of type and volume of meat and drink, with the spectrum of half a cup of red wine with dinner to 7 double whiskeys and at the same token from a piece of lean chicken to a cold cut sub.

In the whole, it’s a tad silly for folks, like myself, to argue about optimal diets. The vast, vast majority of us aren’t even close. If you don’t eat sugar or drink alcohol or processed food and have a couple of ribeyes weekly I’d be willing to bet you will be much healthier than somebody who eats cereal with cows milk, bagels and cheese, desserts, etc.

I think it's good to have the discussions, knowing that most of us aren't perfect or optimal but can make small changes here and there to improve general health.

Agreed. Perfect is the enemy of good. Make the changes that work for you. For some that will be no/less meat for others it's no booze or others it's a lot of cardio,etc.

 

[AAABatteries]

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

I’m a tad skeptical on some is the blue zone diet stuff I’ve read. But I’m equally or more skeptical about carnivore studies (just as an example). Too many of these can’t be reproduced and have too many confounders but generally speaking I’m down with Mediterranean diets.

I'm trying not to make this a pro vegan/vegetarian thread, just as I don't think alcohol thread should be an abstinence or prohibition type of all or nothing question.

There's obviously some nuance in both in terms of type and volume of meat and drink, with the spectrum of half a cup of red wine with dinner to 7 double whiskeys and at the same token from a piece of lean chicken to a cold cut sub.

In the whole, it’s a tad silly for folks, like myself, to argue about optimal diets. The vast, vast majority of us aren’t even close. If you don’t eat sugar or drink alcohol or processed food and have a couple of ribeyes weekly I’d be willing to bet you will be much healthier than somebody who eats cereal with cows milk, bagels and cheese, desserts, etc.

I think it's good to have the discussions, knowing that most of us aren't perfect or optimal but can make small changes here and there to improve general health.

Agreed. Perfect is the enemy of good. Make the changes that work for you. For some that will be no/less meat for others it's no booze or others it's a lot of cardio,etc.

Agree - and my bad if it wasn’t clear. We are complex beings and these are complex systems. I guess you could say my comment was pro-meat (just from a dietary perspective and not moral or environmental) - nobody in here does it that I’ve seen but there’s a lot of dogma on both sides that act like a steak or a salad could kill you. Eat natural, get sleep, drink lots of water, limit stress, exercise, don’t drink a lot or any alcohol. You do those things and you will be well ahead of probably 90% of people.

 

[AAABatteries]

And to be even more clear - I don’t do all those things often enough

 

[Ilov80s]

And to be even more clear - I don’t do all those things often enough

Like you, I love my cocktails (and red wine, hazy IPAs) too much but I do eat pretty healthy, no meat. I would cut the fish but that is too inconvenient at this point. I try to stay active. Far far from perfect but try where I can.

 

[Uncle Leo]

No meat, fish, and eggs. Do intake dairy.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Total anecdote but wanted to share. I think if someone can stick to it that being a meat and vegetables person may be our most ideal diet based on our evolution. Eliminate sugar, dairy, grains, everything processed, alcohol.

I think in terms of longevity, the blue zones are largely Mediterranean/vegetarian diets with are both very little meat.

A recent study for heart health found the DASH diet (protein primarily for fish and seafood) to be the best, followed by pescatarian, Mediterranean, vegetarian and vegan in that order. Paleo and keto were the two worst.

I think there are varying results but for heart health it seems pretty clear a meat heavy diet isn't the best option. Add that to meat being proven to be linked to colon cancer and red meat and processed meats being labelled as carcinogens - I really do think this is the same conversation as alcohol.

Back to the blue diets, a lot of the longest living regions in the world consume a fair bit of wine, so it's not cut and dry in any aspect that these things are good or bad for you but there is a pretty decent amount of evidence that in general consuming less of them is probably best for you health.

That "report" is spurious. They gathered 10 doctors and nutritionists, then had them do a mock draft of diets, and whattayaknow? The hand-picked eggspurts by the AHA found the diet that followed the guidleines that the AHA puts out to be the best! You won't believe what happened next... click for next slide. The fatty acid compostition of grass-fed, grass-finished beef is better than that of pork, chicken, or especially turkey. That's for several key metrics, but mostly inflammation markers- which is trending towards being the ultimate "root cause" of cardiac health. You can be healthy eating meat-centric. You can be healthy eating entirely plant-based. IMHO, it's a lot harder to remain healthy mixing high fats and high carbs. And most of the problems with the Western diet seem to center on extreme excess.

I do agree that the environmental impact of meat consumption is a crisis, and will lead to more and more people adopting a more plant-based diet out of economy and necessity in the near future.

 

[Mister CIA]

1. Using liquid plant oils rather than tropical oils

I target oil and oil, and avoid soybean and canola oils. Are the terms you used here essentially saying the same?

 

[steelerfan1]

i consume chicken and fish daily, but red meat maybe twice a year.

as for the health aspect goes I’ve found myself going down rabbit holes where I can listen the gamut ranging from vegan to carnivore and at the end say, man they make really strong arguments. All I know for me is when I cut out red meat it really made an impact on lowering my cholesterol, therefore I don’t feel the need to go back to regular consumption of it. I still do believe in higher protein diets therefore the daily consumption of chicken and wild caught salmon and or sardines.

 

[Major]

1. Using liquid plant oils rather than tropical oils

I target oil and oil, and avoid soybean and canola oils. Are the terms you used here essentially saying the same?

Coconut and Avocado oil guy here. Not sure about coconut but pretty sure avocado and olive are considered plant based.

 

[AAABatteries]

1. Using liquid plant oils rather than tropical oils

I target oil and oil, and avoid soybean and canola oils. Are the terms you used here essentially saying the same?

I quoted NV’s article (sorry I didn’t make that clear) - but what you say is my assumption. I think a lot of seed oils are problematic but I’m far from an expert.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

For an average week definitely 14+, might have occasional weeks with less but certainly 10+

Weekday breakfast is usually a banana, sometimes bagel or toast. Occasionally a frozen breakfast burrito or sausage biscuit or something like that. Weekend all depends, donuts, toast / bagel and a few times a month some sort of hot breakfast with meat

Weekday lunch almost always has meat, even if I mix in a salad it generally has meat on it

Dinner almost always meat based, we’ll do an occasional meatless pasta

I try to balance out our proteins, usually at least one night is beef and chicken but work in pork and fish too

 

[Joe Bryant]

For the fans of the Mediterranean Diet, is there a book that's seen as the definitive guide for it?

 

[the moops]

I am meat every meal. I am eventually going to die anyway, why would I want to die miserable?

FYI but those of us that don’t eat meat are not miserable.

 

[Ilov80s]

I am meat every meal. I am eventually going to die anyway, why would I want to die miserable?

FYI but those of us that don’t eat meat are not miserable.

Correct. I don’t miss it at all.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I am meat every meal. I am eventually going to die anyway, why would I want to die miserable?

FYI but those of us that don’t eat meat are not miserable.

I’m pretty sure he meant he would be miserable without it, not you

 

[Chaos34]

Like the alcohol thread, I find myself a combination of poll options. I voted 3-6 because I am an intermittent faster for life, the last 17-18 years anyway. I have one meal a day and it usually includes meat, with red meat a little more prevalent than poultry and fish. I mostly avoid pork. So 7 big meals a week, usually with a meat but not always, leaves me around 5-6. But to be fair, I think my portions might be considered big, so maybe that puts me around 7-9 with half or so red meat. Not sure. It varies weekly and I enjoy vegetarian days weekly.

Also, I hesitate to go here, but the blue zones thing has become a little pet peeve for me. You can google its debunking and flaws, and quickly find the debunkers debunked and round and round they go like politics used to here. Sardinia is the 8th or 9th longest lived region in Italy. Okinawa is far behind other parts of Japan. The Costa Rica group had terrible record keeping and so on.

Two recent studies that incorporated far larger samples determined red meat is beneficial for longevity. This one out of Australia. Kinda compelling guys. This one out of Europe.

The conclusion: a diet high in fruit, vegetables, nuts, legumes, fish, and whole-fat dairy is associated with lower cardiovascular disease and death in all world regions, especially in countries with lower income where consumption of these foods is low. It also found that those who consumed higher amounts of red meat fared better on health measurements than those who consumed little.

That second one... well, mmmm cheese. When I read the results of the China Study and the Blue Zones book, I sort of instinctually had the impression the dietary conclusions became over-emphasized. The other factors, staying active, having purpose, being socially active within the community felt under-appreciated. There's also a tendency for someone health conscious enough to minimize meat to also include other healthy ideas in their lifestyle. The guy rolling through In-n-Out three times a week for a double double, fries and a coke probably includes other not so healthy ideas in his lifestyle. Just a hunch. This can make meat seem like the bad guy when maybe it isn't. Sugar probably is. I haven't bought a bag of sugar in over a decade. I'm a meat eater who consumes more micro-greens and sprouts than several of you combined. I grow them in my house.

 

[Chaos34]

For the fans of the Mediterranean Diet, is there a book that's seen as the definitive guide for it?

I don't think so. I think the research was heavily reported, and it turned into a bunch of cookbooks. My sis lives by America's Test Kitchen's.

I like science and read Dr. Masley's The Mediterranean Method. His focus on low-glycemic dieting caught my attention. It's a good read. Diabetes is in my genes. I was pre-diabetic 100 pounds ago.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Like the alcohol thread, I find myself a combination of poll options. I voted 3-6 because I am in intermittent faster for life, the last 17-18 years anyway. I have one meal a day and it usually includes meat, with red meat a little more prevalent than poultry and fish. I mostly avoid pork. So 7 big meals a week, usually with a meat but not always, leaves me around 5-6. But to be fair, I think my portions might be considered big, so maybe that puts me around 7-9 with half or so red meat. Not sure. It varies weekly and I enjoy vegetarian days weekly.

Also, I hesitate to go here, but the blue zones thing has become a little pet peeve for me. You can google its debunking and flaws, and quickly find the debunkers debunked and round and round they go like politics used to here. Sardinia is the 8th or 9th longest lived region in Italy. Okinawa is far behind other parts of Japan. The Costa Rica group had terrible record keeping and so on.

Two recent studies that incorporated far larger samples determined red meat is beneficial for longevity. This one out of Australia. Kinda compelling guys. This one out of Europe.

The conclusion: a diet high in fruit, vegetables, nuts, legumes, fish, and whole-fat dairy is associated with lower cardiovascular disease and death in all world regions, especially in countries with lower income where consumption of these foods is low. It also found that those who consumed higher amounts of red meat fared better on health measurements than those who consumed little.

That second one... well, mmmm cheese. When I read the results of the China Study and the Blue Zones book, I sort of instinctually had the impression the dietary conclusions became over-emphasized. The other factors, staying active, having purpose, being socially active within the community felt under-appreciated. There's also a tendency for someone health conscious enough to minimize meat to also include other healthy ideas in their lifestyle. They guy rolling through In-n-Out three times a week for a double double, fries and a coke probably includes other not so healthy ideas in his lifestyle. Just a hunch. This can make meat seem like the bad guy when maybe it isn't. Sugar probably is. I haven't bought a bag of sugar in over a decade. I'm a meat eater who consumes more micro-greens and sprouts than several of you combined. I grow them in my house.

Thanks. I think this kind of take is accurate. It's fun to put stakes in the ground with definitive points (like Mahomes is the greatest ) but the reality is often a bit more in the middle like this.

Tell us more about the fasting and the greens.