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**Tampa Bay at New Orleans** (+2.5) (44) (1 Viewer)

Feels like Winston won’t come back from this. I mean for the rest of his Saints tenure. The INTs are back. Thought he had them shook, but no.
 
Tampa Bay stepping it up late vs the Saints.
Hold Dallas to 3 points last week
Hold N.Orleans to 3 points so far this week

Lot of problems on offense right now but they have a strong Defense. No surprise with Bowles, hope the offense gets things ironed out.
 
Doug B said:
Feels like Winston won’t come back from this. I mean for the rest of his Saints tenure. The INTs are back. Thought he had them shook, but no.
Click to expand...
I don’t think he can ever be the guy for a team that goes deep into a season.
 
Ministry of Pain said:
Doug B said:
Feels like Winston won’t come back from this. I mean for the rest of his Saints tenure. The INTs are back. Thought he had them shook, but no.
Click to expand...
What are the options?
Click to expand...
I like Dalton better than most. Still, a team can’t play musical chairs at QB.

Saints will carry on with a now-shattered Winston and look to draft a franchise guy in 2023.

Winston is playing today with four fractured vertebrae. Maybe give him some time to recover and see what Dalton’s got.
 
Doug B said:
Capella said:
Doug B said:
Feels like Winston won’t come back from this. I mean for the rest of his Saints tenure. The INTs are back. Thought he had them shook, but no.
Click to expand...
I don’t think he can ever be the guy for a team that goes deep into a season.
Click to expand...
I think a younger hungry Sean Payton could’ve made Winston into something more. That ship has sailed, of course.
Click to expand...
Maybe but he’s had a lot of good quarterback coaching in college and nfl so I don’t know. Jimbo is as good of a college qb coach as you can ask for and Arians has done well with every other qb he’s had.
 
Capella said:
maybe but he’s had a lot of good quarterback coaching in college and nfl so I don’t know
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong. Winston could never approach what Brees or even Romo have done with Payton. Could’ve maybe made Winston into a top-end game manager type. That would be the max, though.
 
Agree with this guy over on Saintsreport. Winston will rightly get almost all the blame, but this was the game:

Ingram's fumble was inexcusable. You are 10 yards down the field and we are about to get the go-ahead score. That is a situation you just avoid the big hit. Two fumbles in two games should have him on the bench going forward, and today's fumble completely changed the dynamic of the game. We probably win if we go in for that TD there.
 
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
 
Boy I'm glad I didn't post in this thread during the game. I hate Mike Evans with the heat of a thousand suns. The Bill Laimbeer of Football.

Post Game Thoughts:
  • I can't even imagine the dressing down Coach Payton would have given Ingram after he fumbled for the second time in two games
  • It's easy to pile onto the INTs, but the Ingram and Olave fumbles were total nut punches.
  • REALLY miss having a former QB as the head coach to talk to Jameis when he needs talking to (can Andy Daulton be the QB whisperer here? Carmichael? Ron Curry?)
 
Ministry of Pain said:
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
Click to expand...

I'm sorry... what?

Lattimore is beaking with Bruce Arians on the sideline, Lattimore keeps talking, and then Brady says something back to him. And that's suspension worthy?

Both Lattimore and Evans deserved to ejected. Evans for the cheap shot, Lattimore for the punch. Brady jawing with Lattimore? Come off it.

If jawing is all it takes, Lattimore should have been suspended just for talking to the Bucs sideline. If that's all it takes for an instigation, that's it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
 
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
Click to expand...

I'm sorry... what?

Lattimore is beaking with Bruce Arians on the sideline, Lattimore keeps talking, and then Brady says something back to him. And that's suspension worthy?

Both Lattimore and Evans deserved to ejected. Evans for the cheap shot, Lattimore for the punch. Brady jawing with Lattimore? Come off it.

If jawing is all it takes, Lattimore should have been suspended just for talking to the Bucs sideline. If that's all it takes for an instigation, that's it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
Click to expand...
Brady is walking right at Lattimore and he is much taller than Marcus, Bruce Arians is retired FYI

And he looks nothing like Todd Bowles.

Is Arians still walking on the sidelines even from the FO position they gave to him?

-MoP POV: Looks like Brady knew what he was doing and the game was 3-3 going in the 2nd half, almost like an MLB Manager picking a fight with the umpire so the team will rally, that's how it sorta felt to me. Brady didn't need to get involved but he saw an opportunity and he took it.
 
Ministry of Pain said:
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
Click to expand...

I'm sorry... what?

Lattimore is beaking with Bruce Arians on the sideline, Lattimore keeps talking, and then Brady says something back to him. And that's suspension worthy?

Both Lattimore and Evans deserved to ejected. Evans for the cheap shot, Lattimore for the punch. Brady jawing with Lattimore? Come off it.

If jawing is all it takes, Lattimore should have been suspended just for talking to the Bucs sideline. If that's all it takes for an instigation, that's it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
Click to expand...
Brady is walking right at Lattimore and he is much taller than Marcus, Bruce Arians is retired FYI

And he looks nothing like Todd Bowles.

Is Arians still walking on the sidelines even from the FO position they gave to him?

-MoP POV: Looks like Brady knew what he was doing and the game was 3-3 going in the 2nd half, almost like an MLB Manager picking a fight with the umpire so the team will rally, that's how it sorta felt to me. Brady didn't need to get involved but he saw an opportunity and he took it.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry... WHAT?!?!? No disrespect, seriously do enjoy your posts. But this is way off base.

Arians isn't retired. He's the "Assistant to the General Manager" or whatever. And irrespective of what you and I think of that (clearly semi-) retirement, he's a credentialed staff member who is at every game. On top of which, apparently Bowles said that normally Arians is up in the booth with Licht and a number of other staff but the Saints didn't have a box for them so they were all on the sidelines. No idea if that was gamesmanship by the Saints or just a logistical issue.

As for being "taller" than Lattimore... that's ridiculous. He walks up to him and is taller and so, he instigated it? Nothing forces you to punch a player (even if they shove you) and nothing forces you to cheap shot a player from behind (for the second time, even if they punch a teammate).

Can you imagine if they started suspending players for instigating? A lot of guys would get suspended!

And I'm sorry, it clearly looks like Lattimore started it by jawing with the Bucs sideline (like he regularly does). If you're looking for instigators, he's the idiot who is jawing right at the opponents sideline. Personally, I say let him jaw away. Hell, let them shove a bit. The line gets drawn at throwing fists and cheap shots from behind.
 
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
Click to expand...

I'm sorry... what?

Lattimore is beaking with Bruce Arians on the sideline, Lattimore keeps talking, and then Brady says something back to him. And that's suspension worthy?

Both Lattimore and Evans deserved to ejected. Evans for the cheap shot, Lattimore for the punch. Brady jawing with Lattimore? Come off it.

If jawing is all it takes, Lattimore should have been suspended just for talking to the Bucs sideline. If that's all it takes for an instigation, that's it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
Click to expand...
Brady is walking right at Lattimore and he is much taller than Marcus, Bruce Arians is retired FYI

And he looks nothing like Todd Bowles.

Is Arians still walking on the sidelines even from the FO position they gave to him?

-MoP POV: Looks like Brady knew what he was doing and the game was 3-3 going in the 2nd half, almost like an MLB Manager picking a fight with the umpire so the team will rally, that's how it sorta felt to me. Brady didn't need to get involved but he saw an opportunity and he took it.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry... WHAT?!?!? No disrespect, seriously do enjoy your posts. But this is way off base.

Arians isn't retired. He's the "Assistant to the General Manager" or whatever. And irrespective of what you and I think of that (clearly semi-) retirement, he's a credentialed staff member who is at every game. On top of which, apparently Bowles said that normally Arians is up in the booth with Licht and a number of other staff but the Saints didn't have a box for them so they were all on the sidelines. No idea if that was gamesmanship by the Saints or just a logistical issue.

As for being "taller" than Lattimore... that's ridiculous. He walks up to him and is taller and so, he instigated it? Nothing forces you to punch a player (even if they shove you) and nothing forces you to cheap shot a player from behind (for the second time, even if they punch a teammate).

Can you imagine if they started suspending players for instigating? A lot of guys would get suspended!

And I'm sorry, it clearly looks like Lattimore started it by jawing with the Bucs sideline (like he regularly does). If you're looking for instigators, he's the idiot who is jawing right at the opponents sideline. Personally, I say let him jaw away. Hell, let them shove a bit. The line gets drawn at throwing fists and cheap shots from behind.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your normal enjoyment, sorry if I sound out in left field.

Let me re-state it and keep in mind, MoP had season tickets back in the 90s at the Ole Sombrero so please know I'd love to just pile on Lattimore and the Saints but I see the whole incident a little different and it felt in game like Brady exploited an opportunity to get his team fired up. Maybe I have it wrong but it looked to me like he instantly knew he could do exactly what he did and get away with it.

I started becoming a Bucs fan in '92 when I moved there and eventually Dungy took over, I was at the SF opener in '97 IIRC, Sapp manhandles the Niners OL and drops Steve Young a few times, think the Bucs won a very low scoring affair. But I was born in Miami, lifelong Phins fan grew up on Marino and the 80s but also had to endure 20 years of Brady before he gave me a gift as a jaded fan on his way out of the NFL so he's not my favorite guy but I've respected him more in the last few years.

Thanks for your post, not sure if that helps you understand where I am coming from. i don't put anything past Brady or Coach BB, I just don't.
 
Last edited:
btemp said:
On top of which, apparently Bowles said that normally Arians is up in the booth with Licht and a number of other staff but the Saints didn't have a box for them so they were all on the sidelines. No idea if that was gamesmanship by the Saints or just a logistical issue.
Click to expand...

Not so clear-cut:


ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk

The Bucs have an explanation for Bruce Arians being on the sideline. It doesn't hold water. And it doesn't excuse Arians acting like he was still a coach.

The Saints had 18 seats in the press box for Tampa Bay personnel. There were reserved seats for, among others, Jason Licht and Bruce Arians.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ministry of Pain said:
@btemp

Buccaneers' explanation for Bruce Arians being on the sidelines tells only part of the story

In Week One, Buccaneers special adviser to the General Manager Bruce Arians watched the game from General Manager Jason Licht's booth.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

I didn't know this
Click to expand...
Yeah ... it's all fishy in retrospect. But Lattimore got reliably sucked in, and that was ballgame.

Looking back ... I wish that third down target to Scotty Miller had been to the Saints' side of the field instead of the Bucs' side. Lattimore would've made the stop, and then walked a few feet into friendly territory. In the moment, Kris Richard could have reeled Lattimore in and kept him from continuing to jaw with the Buccaneers.
 
Last edited:
Ministry of Pain said:
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
btemp said:
Ministry of Pain said:
Brady's role in the suspensions?
He should be fined for going after Lattimore, he did it for a reason and I also tip my hat to Tom, he knows when to do certain things and it motivated the team to finish the game strong but it cost the Bucs possibly next week.
Goodell suspended him 4 games for letting air out of the football, I could see him being creative and at least a hefty fine for Brady.
I would give Brady a fine for being an instigator but he never threw a punch. Lattimore had his hands on Brady but there's at least a half foot difference in height, Brady was leaning over him.
Just saying
Click to expand...

I'm sorry... what?

Lattimore is beaking with Bruce Arians on the sideline, Lattimore keeps talking, and then Brady says something back to him. And that's suspension worthy?

Both Lattimore and Evans deserved to ejected. Evans for the cheap shot, Lattimore for the punch. Brady jawing with Lattimore? Come off it.

If jawing is all it takes, Lattimore should have been suspended just for talking to the Bucs sideline. If that's all it takes for an instigation, that's it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
Click to expand...
Brady is walking right at Lattimore and he is much taller than Marcus, Bruce Arians is retired FYI

And he looks nothing like Todd Bowles.

Is Arians still walking on the sidelines even from the FO position they gave to him?

-MoP POV: Looks like Brady knew what he was doing and the game was 3-3 going in the 2nd half, almost like an MLB Manager picking a fight with the umpire so the team will rally, that's how it sorta felt to me. Brady didn't need to get involved but he saw an opportunity and he took it.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry... WHAT?!?!? No disrespect, seriously do enjoy your posts. But this is way off base.

Arians isn't retired. He's the "Assistant to the General Manager" or whatever. And irrespective of what you and I think of that (clearly semi-) retirement, he's a credentialed staff member who is at every game. On top of which, apparently Bowles said that normally Arians is up in the booth with Licht and a number of other staff but the Saints didn't have a box for them so they were all on the sidelines. No idea if that was gamesmanship by the Saints or just a logistical issue.

As for being "taller" than Lattimore... that's ridiculous. He walks up to him and is taller and so, he instigated it? Nothing forces you to punch a player (even if they shove you) and nothing forces you to cheap shot a player from behind (for the second time, even if they punch a teammate).

Can you imagine if they started suspending players for instigating? A lot of guys would get suspended!

And I'm sorry, it clearly looks like Lattimore started it by jawing with the Bucs sideline (like he regularly does). If you're looking for instigators, he's the idiot who is jawing right at the opponents sideline. Personally, I say let him jaw away. Hell, let them shove a bit. The line gets drawn at throwing fists and cheap shots from behind.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your normal enjoyment, sorry if I sound out in left field.

Let me re-state it and keep in mind, MoP had season tickets back in the 90s at the Ole Sombrero so please know I'd love to just pile on Lattimore and the Saints but I see the whole incident a little different and it felt in game like Brady exploited an opportunity to get his team fired up. Maybe I have it wrong but it looked to me like he instantly knew he could do exactly what he did and get away with it.

I started becoming a Bucs fan in '92 when I moved there and eventually Dungy took over, I was at the SF opener in '97 IIRC, Sapp manhandles the Niners OL and drops Steve Young a few times, think the Bucs won a very low scoring affair. But I was born in Miami, lifelong Phins fan grew up on Marino and the 80s but also had to endure 20 years of Brady before he gave me a gift as a jaded fan on his way out of the NFL so he's not my favorite guy but I've respected him more in the last few years.

Thanks for your post, not sure if that helps you understand where I am coming from. i don't put anything past Brady or Coach BB, I just don't.
Click to expand...

Totally get it.

I actually don't disagree on 90% of what you're saying. Only the punishment. I agree Brady was goading and trash talking (and loved Lattimore's reaction). I just don't think that's punishable (and I wouldn't want to). I love most of the trash talking and if you can get a rise out of a guy - good for you! Part of football is somehow keeping your head while you're smashing your head against someone else's haha.

P.S. Also, now the Saints were saying there was seating... Who knows what's going on. I have never loved Arians as a coach (Bucs won SB because of Brady, not him) but I don't get why PFT is all upset he was on the sideline. Again, I think Arians is a blowhard but I don't get Mike Florio's hang up on Arians.
 
Doug B said:
Ministry of Pain said:
@btemp

Buccaneers' explanation for Bruce Arians being on the sidelines tells only part of the story

In Week One, Buccaneers special adviser to the General Manager Bruce Arians watched the game from General Manager Jason Licht's booth.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

I didn't know this
Click to expand...
Yeah ... it's all fishy in retrospect. But Lattimore got reliably sucked in, and that was ballgame.

Looking back ... I wish that third down target to Scotty Miller had been to the Saints' side of the field instead of the Bucs' side. Lattimore would've made the stop, and then walked a few feet into friendly territory. In the moment, Kris Richard could have reeled Lattimore in and kept him from continuing to jaw with the Buccaneers.
Click to expand...

Total aside - was it PI? I think so. It was a good play by Lattimore until the end. He has Miller hooked and Miller needs to do a better job fighting through to force that PI call. But by the end he drives Miller down. What say ya'll?

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/E9jCNiad4kE?t=431
 
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